nice to see that not all americans are farmers..

(sorry well for that expression, but here from switzerland seems to be)

YESSSSS!!! The day I sat in my room on my bed staring up at the ceiling dreaming about for months....SWEET VICTORY! First of all MAX, you think its nice to see not all americans are farmers?? Hmmm, did you just come out of your mothers womb or maybe you were abducted from a UFO, you the know the 'greys' the ones with the big eyes and big heads...they just sit there and stare at you...wake up from your sleep friend. America is the most industrialized nation in the universe as we know it, so lets not get carried away with any stereotypes...now go hold your breath and see how long you can hold it for. Secondly, for Sacredawe78, I really dont need to say much, you self destruct with every word you mutter with a lisp, you've been divorced from reality friend. The white hooded family who abducted Elizabeth Smart is now your spiritual family. You are one with them. Be at peace brother, and descent into heaven with your fascist friends.

Ok now back to the real world. Funny how 90% of the people on this forum discuss politics putting conservatives in an isolated minority group. But did any of you stop for a second to look at whos side most of the country is on? Not yours. You liberals talk about 'change', well change is happening, at lightning speed, right underneath your noses. Wake up and smell the coffee gentleman, and you too sacredawe78. Because if you dont see the trend of the future, which is clearly conservative values with very very hight patriotism...room for people like sacredawe is becoming scarce. Hispanics love Bush, southerners love Bush, mid westerners love Bush, Floridians love Bush, OhIO loves Bush, religious freaks loves Bush, women and people with family values love Bush. Sacredawe78 said he hates america, and hates anyone who voted for Bush, this clearly show that you are the wrong guy, in the wrong country, at the wrong time. Now go see how long you can hold your head underwater.

:lol:

indeed...:lol: :lol: I see the trend of the future...and man oh man does it suck.

4 more years of dividing this country apart 4 more years of increase to the nation's already trillion dollar deficit. 4 more years of budget cuts of programs that will truly benefit our nation's people, i.e science and family planning. four more years of incredulous lies, distortion and cover up. 4 more years of negative relations with international powers (otherthan saudi arabia of course) 4 more years of tax cuts that will not benefit 75% of the american people. 4 more years of censorship of our media and public information.

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

Oh well, don't get worked up too much over that Viceroy...here we have a PM that's licking Bush's unwashed arse and who looks like a bad Harry Potter imitation! And he talks like Kermit the Frog, too. What kind of sick joke is that?

[img]http://b2b.q2is.com/picz/balkenende.jpg[/img]

To Phantom, who still lacks any tact in adressing his fellow forum-dwellers: a girlfriend of mine put it like this: "euh only 51% loves bush, and considering only half of america took the time to get of their lazy overweight asses that is only about 25% of all americans".

She is a bit overweight too, so don't take it personally :mrgreen:

but wait, if the average of the majority of america votes and its 51/49 going in bush's favor, you are assuming that the portion that didn't vote will vote entirely for kerry. nope, you're wrong. :twisted: :twisted: if the avg of the majority of america voted for bush, you have to assume the the portion that didn't vote would be pretty much the same outcome.

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

Mwaahh...don't know. I think it's still the minorities dat had the lower turnout, and they would lean towards Kerry I think. Although I doubt they would've made up those 3.5 mln votes difference...

And even though I am very anti-Bush, I can imagine enough reasons why so many people still voted for him, the main reason being that people want a strong leader. Bush may be a wanker, but he's a strong wanker. He may be wrong in his foreign policies, but he stands tall and proud fucking things up. That, he does. And Bush still has bigger balls than Harry Potter over here..(read my last post). :Cowboy:

yeah yeah... i don't want to see bush's balls, so i'll take you word on that one :wink:

i just felt like being an ass and replying.

[img]http://www.howardstern.com/04/11/03/10s.jpg[/img]

[quote=max]nice to see that not all americans are farmers..

(sorry well for that expression, but here from switzerland seems to be)[/quote]

:roll:

I'm tired of these generalizations roaming around that stereotypes repubz to the worst degree. Mostly that we are all Christians and hick farmers, its all wrong. One of the biggest mistakes that the Dems make is to characterize the Repub party as driven by a fundamentalist Christian agenda. And I see this VERY often with the libz on this board. While most fundamentalists are also Repubs, in fact most Repubs are NOT fundamentalists -- they represent a small part of the Repub "big tent." I am in no way shape or form a Christian, in fact, I pretty much despise any/all religion, especially when it garners control in politics like in the middle east. And on the other front, I have a very Christian friend that is as liberal as they come.

No, what Repubs have in common on the moral front is not religious fundamentalism -- it is instead a moral core, and a sense that old-fashioned AMERICAN values are what is important for the future of this country. For example, we believe strongly AGAINST a state-mandated religion, this would be a huge mistake to make religion part of our political system because then we would become no better then the people we have set out to fight. But we also believe that "under God" in the Pledge -- or even the Ten Commandments on a public wall -- would not violate the Constitution. Although I am against reciting the pledge in schools, otherwise its part of being an American. We believe in self-reliance more than reliance on the government, and most of us still believe in American exceptionalism. We believe that people use the government rather then just use it to get back on their feet, where as libz tend to believe that these people need this help more then is often the truth. I don't mind helping people get back on their feet, but helping them for the rest of their life is inexcusable. I don't think I should have to pay for someone's college education when I can barely afford one for myself. This is the heart of our "lower taxes, less governemnt stance." In fact, if you want a pretty good exposition of modern Repub values, read the Inaugural speech of that fine modern Repub president, John F. Kennedy. Yes he was a dem, but back then the demz were what the repubz are now.

Next ..... This was not a close election at all by the standards of the past few decades. A 3.5-million-vote majority for the President and a pickup in both the House and the Senate and throwing the Senate minority leader out of office altogether is the biggest victory that any party has seen in one election in a long long time. You'd better believe that GW has a mandate! Now, I hope he uses it.

What I am talking about is the political TREND in this country, not so much this single election. The trend is not toward Michael Moore and Howard Dean and Hollywood and big-government solutions and Bill Clinton's loose take on morality, but neither is it toward Jerry Falwell or any other FARMER stereotype you can place on us -- it is instead back to our American roots. I think that most Repubs realize this, but most Dem leaders still do not.... and that is why they lost Senator Tom Daschle's seat, that is why they lost this election as a whole, and that is why --- if they honestly believe Hillary Clinton can help them in 2008 they are SORELY, very sorely mistaken. Even most libz I know hate that women with a passion, if she runs against Gulliani, or a McCain, the slaughtering she would take would be a landslide in comaprisson.

So on that note, I'd get used to this repub thing, we are going to be here more then just 4 more years. :wink:

[quote=Garrick]but wait, if the average of the majority of america votes and its 51/49 going in bush's favor, you are assuming that the portion that didn't vote will vote entirely for kerry. nope, you're wrong. :twisted: :twisted: if the avg of the majority of america voted for bush, you have to assume the the portion that didn't vote would be pretty much the same outcome.[/quote]

you are right! this election had the most amount of people in history come out and vote for bush. but remember it also had the second most come out and vote against him.

bush won the popular vote by approx 3 million. that really isn't that much to say america has spoken. the other half said go back to texas. but it is what it is and now we have four more years.

also last night i saw that the issue of morality was the number one issue when it came time to vote. i also saw that the porn industry is thriving in middle and southern america. just a thought.

[quote=Civic_Zen][quote=max]nice to see that not all americans are farmers..

(sorry well for that expression, but here from switzerland seems to be)[/quote]

:roll:

I'm tired of these generalizations roaming around that stereotypes repubz to the worst degree. Mostly that we are all Christians and hick farmers, its all wrong. One of the biggest mistakes that the Dems make is to characterize the Repub party as driven by a fundamentalist Christian agenda. And I see this VERY often with the libz on this board. While most fundamentalists are also Repubs, in fact most Repubs are NOT fundamentalists -- they represent a small part of the Repub "big tent." I am in no way shape or form a Christian, in fact, I pretty much despise any/all religion, especially when it garners control in politics like in the middle east. And on the other front, I have a very Christian friend that is as liberal as they come.

No, what Repubs have in common on the moral front is not religious fundamentalism -- it is instead a moral core, and a sense that old-fashioned AMERICAN values are what is important for the future of this country. For example, we believe strongly AGAINST a state-mandated religion, this would be a huge mistake to make religion part of our political system because then we would become no better then the people we have set out to fight. But we also believe that "under God" in the Pledge -- or even the Ten Commandments on a public wall -- would not violate the Constitution. Although I am against reciting the pledge in schools, otherwise its part of being an American. We believe in self-reliance more than reliance on the government, and most of us still believe in American exceptionalism. We believe that people use the government rather then just use it to get back on their feet, where as libz tend to believe that these people need this help more then is often the truth. I don't mind helping people get back on their feet, but helping them for the rest of their life is inexcusable. I don't think I should have to pay for someone's college education when I can barely afford one for myself. This is the heart of our "lower taxes, less governemnt stance." In fact, if you want a pretty good exposition of modern Repub values, read the Inaugural speech of that fine modern Repub president, John F. Kennedy. Yes he was a dem, but back then the demz were what the repubz are now.

Next ..... This was not a close election at all by the standards of the past few decades. A 3.5-million-vote majority for the President and a pickup in both the House and the Senate and throwing the Senate minority leader out of office altogether is the biggest victory that any party has seen in one election in a long long time. You'd better believe that GW has a mandate! Now, I hope he uses it.

What I am talking about is the political TREND in this country, not so much this single election. The trend is not toward Michael Moore and Howard Dean and Hollywood and big-government solutions and Bill Clinton's loose take on morality, but neither is it toward Jerry Falwell or any other FARMER stereotype you can place on us -- it is instead back to our American roots. I think that most Repubs realize this, but most Dem leaders still do not.... and that is why they lost Senator Tom Daschle's seat, that is why they lost this election as a whole, and that is why --- if they honestly believe Hillary Clinton can help them in 2008 they are SORELY, very sorely mistaken. Even most libz I know hate that women with a passion, if she runs against Gulliani, or a McCain, the slaughtering she would take would be a landslide in comaprisson.

So on that note, I'd get used to this repub thing, we are going to be here more then just 4 more years. :wink:[/quote]

Getting back to our roots in one thing, but electing a complete moron who has done nothing buy lie, cheat and steal the past 4 years is another.

WHAT GOOD HAS DUBYAH DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY?

that's right....nothing.

[quote=Civic_Zen]One of the biggest mistakes that the Dems make is to characterize the Repub party as driven by a fundamentalist Christian agenda. And I see this VERY often with the libz on this board. While most fundamentalists are also Repubs, in fact most Repubs are NOT fundamentalists -- they represent a small part of the Repub "big tent."[/quote]

It certainly is true that most republicans are not fundies, by the numbers -

However, it is very difficult to deny that the fundies have increasingly had a larger and larger influence in Republican politics and policies (and rhetoric) in recent years. Especially in the south.

During the last 4 years (and for the next 4 years), we have had an administration in the white house which is seriously in the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to the religion factor. This partially (or wholly) guides their policies on some very important domestic issues - abortion, gay rights/marriage, stem cell research, etc etc etc. It doesn't even stop at the borders. How many times have you heard Bush invoke "God" while talking about the war on terror?

While I don't necessarily agree with many the philosophical, economic, or social beliefs of the Republican party, I consider it merely a difference of opinion and it's no skin off my back. The majority of the constituents of [b]both[/b] parties do want what is best for America - different means to the same end. I respect that regardless of party affiliation. But when so much of the Republican party's current direction (even if it comes from just a [b]tiny[/b] number of their constituents) is so blatantly driven by religion, it just makes me sick. It's a far cry from state-sponsored religion, but it is not something that leads to "freedom for all" either. Religion is personal, not policy.

I grew up in North Dallas, where fundamental Christianity is the norm, so this is a rather sensitive issue to me (if you couldn't tell ;) ). My parents dragged me to fundy evangelical churches for several years before they finally "woke up" and realized the hypocricy of how those people worked. I know how these people think and it disgusts me. I see the influence of the religious right in politics, in the Republican party, and it disgusts me. I wish the Republican party would shed that side and really get back to their core values that you speak of. Religion and politics [b]on any level[/b] is a dangerous combination.

On a semi-related note, my already-low opinion of Kerry sunk even lower in the 3rd debate when, in the last few minutes, he started trying to "out-God" Bush. Fucking twat. If this election had been Kerry vs. some Republican other than Bush (who didn't wear his religion on his sleeve), I might have voted Republican.

[quote=viceroy]WHAT GOOD HAS DUBYAH DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY? [/quote]

Hey come on now - be fair.

At least Bush has given political-based satirists enough material for decades. SNL and The Daily Show probably breathed a huge sigh of relief when Kerry conceded. ;)

my only repsonse is that history will tell.

everyone is always this and that. yet no one knows for sure. sure the guy has done some shady shit, but hell don't they all? so let's put a lid on it, and let history tell the verdict. it will be the only definitive source of fact and truth. o, and stop being such sorry ass losers. fuck. don't you guys & gals (respect to da ladies) have a life? hesh.

blow me a fucking river with some cardboard. do SOMETHING!

[quote=viceroy]

Getting back to our roots in one thing, but electing a complete moron who has done nothing buy lie, cheat and steal the past 4 years is another.

WHAT GOOD HAS DUBYAH DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY?

that's right....nothing.[/quote]

Unfortunetely, electing a President in America isn't always going to be - "OH GW did a whole lot for me so I'm going to re-elect him." Its more about what Kerry wouldn't do in his stead. Once again, the lesser of the two evils. Bush was the strong leader here.

Besides, I don't believe Bush lied, cheated, or stole anything. I don't subscribe to Michael Moore Monthly.

(Bush) He is just an honest dumbass.

Plus. If Kerry had something besides Mrs. Ketchup, I would of voted for him. That fucking witch scares me. What a booz-hound-open-legs-ketchup-filled-bs.

eck. :x

Someone please tell me what GOOD things George W. Bush had done in his lfetime??

Make a list..............if you can

I can't see a single good thing about this person...NONE

...and please REMEMBER goodness is based on empirical data, consequentialism....NOT his SOUL or INTENTIONS

I cannot see anything...he is a murderer, an exploiter, (capitalist) ...and as far as being an actor he sucks....but that really isnt important

Kerry was a capitalist...yes...

Apparently he killed some people in Vietnam too...so yes he is a murderer

BUUUT...he did admit Vietnam was wrong...and he did have the desire to unify other countries as a primary concern....and most importantly, IMO

HE SAID WE SHOULD DISMANTLE OUR NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION BEFORE WE ASK OTHER COUNTRIES TO DO SO!!!!!!!

I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT....AND THAT TOOK COURAGE.

He was by far the lesser of the two evils

Bush is a STEADFAST murderer, capitalist, and expoliter

Kerry had SOME decent qualities compared to BUSH = NONE!

thats all this comes down to

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

[quote=sacredawe78] I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN...THANKS!!!!!![/quote]

do the world a favor and heed your own advice. you've already made your point, move on.

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

bush tried to get social security to earn itself interest by allowing it to be invested in the top 500 mutual funds in the world, but was blocked by democrats who said the costs associated with the actual overseeing could be used for better things.

bush lowered taxes on investments so people could try to set up a nest egg. he dropped them from a peak of 36% to 15%. also, he ammended the estate tax so you dont forfeit 40-60% of what your parents want to give you. he also doubled the home purchase exemption up to 250k per person. ie half a million for a parried couple. that means you can now buy a house without paying taxes on a huge gain in assest. (most ppl around 200k).

albeit a huge disagreement with the more liberal ppl, including myself, he attempted to ban gay marriage, which got a lot of flack, and when he laid off it, and the states took control of the matter, they ended up banning even quicker. hey, it aint right, but democracy goes by majority. he followed the majority,

ppl hate the war, but realize that afghanistan had its first free elections ever last month. iraq has more to do with oil and the world economy. but we are setting up a democracy. even if you focus on the oil matter, which cant be overlooked, you gotta realize the world itself, not just USA, relies on it for damn near everything. power, fuel, etc. and dont alternative energy sources, b/c they arent feasible yet. maybe later but not now.

people here in NYC went bezerk during the RNC about the AIDS issue, and with good heart, but dont scream about bush ignoring the Afgrican crisis, he made america the highest donor to the cause. nearly double what the second highest donor country was.

and as for him not being bright, just because he wasnt a lawyer and has sub par public speaking ability, dont hold it against him. not everyone is a speech and debate person.

try to think with common sense on both sides.

re: nuclear proliferation, NATO has asked the US, UK, and australia not to dismantle them. we need them just in case another WW2 happens, god forbid.

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

[quote=Yao]Mwaahh...don't know. I think it's still the minorities dat had the lower turnout, and they would lean towards Kerry I think. Although I doubt they would've made up those 3.5 mln votes difference...[/quote]

Dems had their highest turnout EVER... much because they had 527's working overtime to work the GOTV effort. They had like 250 vans/per organization (ACT, MOVEON, LCV) in each major city, in each state. Of course there are many lazy democrats, just as their are republicans, but i'd prefer they just not vote. Those people usually vote for the wrong reasons and their is a thing such as voter responsibility. Dems are just going to have to try even harder, just as they have been since 2000...if there will be any chance in 2008. I expect the Dems to play extremely dirty in the next race, definately noticed an increase this election. trash

this election seemed to be just about anti - bush b/c of war. not about pro-dem for any reason. also, hollywood didnt help at all when you have people like p.diddy(asshole) running around trying to create a trend. they actually tried to make voting for kerry a fashion thing.

whatever. go guiliani. :P

quote=asdf_admin He is just an honest dumbass.

Plus. If Kerry had something besides Mrs. Ketchup, I would of voted for him. That fucking witch scares me. What a booz-hound-open-legs-ketchup-filled-bs.

eck. :x[/quote]

now that's just mud slinging. i sort of liked her. she wasn't a typical first lady but she was fiesty.

the one good thing about W being re-elected is that i bet his daughters are going to come out with some freaky deaky sex video. probably both of them banging some well hung black man. that would be worth another four years.

[quote=thesightless]this election seemed to be just about anti - bush b/c of war. not about pro-dem for any reason. also, hollywood didnt help at all when you have people like p.diddy(asshole) running around trying to create a trend. they actually tried to make voting for kerry a fashion thing.

whatever. go guiliani. :P[/quote]

Great point, did you see Ashton Kutcher and all the other Hollywood pretty boys join him. He actually had the nerve to say, "Thats right I want you to vote for Kerry even though he will raise my taxes and lower yours." Its amazing that people think repubz help the rich get richer, when in fact the demz are more guilty of it. What a tosser Kutcher is.

[quote=devon]

now that's just mud slinging. i sort of liked her. she wasn't a typical first lady but she was fiesty.

the one good thing about W being re-elected is that i bet his daughters are going to come out with some freaky deaky sex video. probably both of them banging some well hung black man. that would be worth another four years.[/quote]

She was nothing but a spoiled little bitch. Jane Fonda Jr and cousin to Hillary Clinton. She joined my list of bitches to bitch slap if ever given the opportunity.

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

Sweet Gebus. She Sucked.

I am so thankful. :wink:

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

[quote=Balanc3][quote=Yao]Mwaahh...don't know. I think it's still the minorities dat had the lower turnout, and they would lean towards Kerry I think. Although I doubt they would've made up those 3.5 mln votes difference...[/quote]

Dems had their highest turnout EVER... much because they had 527's working overtime to work the GOTV effort. They had like 250 vans/per organization (ACT, MOVEON, LCV) in each major city, in each state. Of course there are many lazy democrats, just as their are republicans, but i'd prefer they just not vote. Those people usually vote for the wrong reasons and their is a thing such as voter responsibility. Dems are just going to have to try even harder, just as they have been since 2000...if there will be any chance in 2008. I expect the Dems to play extremely dirty in the next race, definately noticed an increase this election. trash[/quote]

You have point there Balanc. This time the people that did vote, voted for their own cause. Lazy voters don't think it over, and therefore should stay home.

And about Civic:

The way you put it, I wouldn't mind you guys having a republican president. I just don't like this one because he doesn't know when to leave people alone. Internationally you don't go round scoffing people and bluntly telling them what to do. International policy is about dialogue, and he seems to have forgotten that. And if he would lose some of the religious attitude, he wouldn't such a bad choice. I am well aware of the history of the American continent, the struggle for freedom against the United Kingdom, the civil war, and the freedom spirit his has yielded. I respect that, and regret the fact that here in Europe we don't have such a conscience in common.

But Bush isn't like that: he's too personal in his approach of politics, and that is wrong. Keep the dialogue going, and try to find long-term structural solutions, not the one with the most eye-blinding effect in the short run.

I read Kerry's program to prevent terrorism from states that are liable to economical and political instability. I'll try to find it again, it wasn't perfect, but a better option than Bush has given them so far.

To get back to the point: I respect your viewpoints very much. You'd be a better rep president than Bush is. Otherwise, next time Guiliani or McCain. Hillary is going to be flamed...I don't understand that she really thinks she makes a chance. I think she won't even have much support internationally...

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

you people still seem lost in political squabble...

still attached to the whole notion of being party affiliated...its really sad

and i do not understand how you people can sit here and go off on Heinz with respect to her "coolness" level or even her moral objective

Laura Bush is about as dumb as an iron board housewife bend over for sugar daddy's oily dick and breed as ive ever seen

Heinz had a big inheritance, but I am not sure if she still has managerial powers in the company...i dont know her stake...that is irrelevant anyhow

she isnt perfect...but look at laura bush...i mean she is definetly not any better...so why even argue about it?? theyre both just mirroring their husbands messages, so its really all about the "cool" factor??

get over that and move on to the issues

i

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

[quote=Garrick][quote=sacredawe78] I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN...THANKS!!!!!![/quote]

do the world a favor and heed your own advice. you've already made your point, move on.[/quote]

i probably would be doing the world a favor...overpopulation is an epidemic

good point...

adoption is more virtuous

let me know if you have anything good to say

i hope for our world's sake you also decide not to

you are the one arguing man. you are the one starting shit. if you don't want to argue then shut the fuck up. we're arguing with you because you are insulting us. and not just one of us, the whole community. how biased is that and how presuming is it to think we all share the same opinion???? get the hell out if you can't deal with it. i like it peaceful here and i don't want you ruining my high or anyone else's.

or............. start talking about how sander rocked you and your mom last night at a sick club and how you are going to see digweed rock you and your sister at space. or talk about how much fun you are going to have at WMC this year (hell yeah!). all this political shit is giving me a headache. i'm done arguing in this stupid thread.

your high??

ignorance is bliss

cliche but true

that is obviously what youve been sailing on

nice pic there...does that particular plane drop bombs??

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

[quote=sacredawe78] she isnt perfect...but look at laura bush...i mean she is definetly not any better...so why even argue about it?? theyre both just mirroring their husbands messages, so its really all about the "cool" factor??[/quote]

Obviously you wern't paying much attention. Teresa is like Hillary became only AFTER Bill began his term. That was when we found out what a big mouth Hillary has. She was at least smart enough not to say such things while Bill was campaining. The only time she had nothing to say was after it was proven that Bill got head in the O Office. Then she was speachless. Sorry, but for political reasons or not, I have zero respect for a women that would stay with a man that has obviously cheated on her many many times. Why should I respect her when she obviously doesn't respect herself. Bill, I could care less that he got head, but I'm not his wife. And on that note, I have zero respect for a man like Kerry that marry's women for MONEY, and no other reason. Teresa was his second rich wife, or didn't you know that?

Teresa really hurt Kerry's campaign, she said a lot of things Kerry would never have said. In fact, I think she is a reasonably large contributing factor to Kerry's loss this election. Laura on the other hand is a good women, she knows when to keep her mouth shut. Which is exponentially important in politics. :wink:

PS - I am in no way intending this in a sexist manner, only that it is important to not always say what you mean, especially in politics. And especially when your only the spouse of the candidate. This would be JUST AS true for the First Man, once the first women gets elected to the White House.

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

[quote=Civic_Zen][quote=sacredawe78] she isnt perfect...but look at laura bush...i mean she is definetly not any better...so why even argue about it?? theyre both just mirroring their husbands messages, so its really all about the "cool" factor??[/quote]

Obviously you wern't paying much attention. Teresa is like Hillary became only AFTER Bill began his term. That was when we found out what a big mouth Hillary has. She was at least smart enough not to say such things while Bill was campaining. The only time she had nothing to say was after it was proven that Bill got head in the O Office. Then she was speachless. Sorry, but for political reasons or not, I have zero respect for a women that would stay with a man that has obviously cheated on her many many times. Why should I respect her when she obviously doesn't respect herself. Bill, I could care less that he got head, but I'm not his wife. And on that note, I have zero respect for a man like Kerry that marry's women for MONEY, and no other reason. Teresa was his second rich wife, or didn't you know that?

Teresa really hurt Kerry's campaign, she said a lot of things Kerry would never have said. In fact, I think she is a reasonably large contributing factor to Kerry's loss this election. Laura on the other hand is a good women, she knows when to keep her mouth shut. Which is exponentially important in politics. :wink:

PS - I am in no way intending this in a sexist manner, only that it is important to not always say what you mean, especially in politics. And especially when your only the spouse of the candidate. This would be JUST AS true for the First Man, once the first women gets elected to the White House.[/quote]

im not interested in being politically correct, but that seems to be all you are about

sorry...i dont want to tread in such shallow waters with you

Then don't. I begin to understand Garrick now, this is going nowhere. Lets call it a day here, I'm fed up with this. We try to be polite and understanding, but we also expect some respect for our points of view. This is a world with division, with politics and all it's consequences.

Get out of your dreamworld and deal with it.

I think we are all in agreement here Yao. Sacred is caught in his own little bubble, daydreaming about a pipe dream. Or perhaps its hallucinations caused by mescaline/peote. BTW, can I get some of that sacred? :lol:

i am not living in a dreamworld...see my response to your original comment about being a "utopian"...as if that is an impossibility..

that is incorrect

yes it is a world filled with division, but politics are overvalued and science and philosphy undervalued when it comes to morality

politics are empty...people are being political for the sake of it...it is somehow being valued as a means of transgression...as if there is a real difference between all of these "parties"...as if they actually are moral agents...as if there is some real moral progress being made

give me a break!!

they are all capitalists...they are all nationalists

THEIR IS NO DIALECTICAL MOVEMENT IN POLITICS....THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH IT...SO DONT ACT LIKE IT IS SOME NECESSARY PART OF THIS WORLD

we could be philsophical and argumentative with morality being a science based on conqequentialism

ok???

wed still appeal to your world of endless "division" by continuing to argue..but it would be tactful and moral progess could be made

there is no "real" arguing in politics

there is no morality existent in politics because their is no moral agents and thus their is no dialectical reality

[quote=Civic_Zen]I think we are all in agreement here Yao. Sacred is caught in his own little bubble, daydreaming about a pipe dream. Or perhaps its hallucinations caused by mescaline/peote. BTW, can I get some of that sacred? :lol:[/quote]

ive never done peyote...though it would be nice im sure

ive done san pedro though....

if you want some try home depot

Neither have I. Now there is something I can agree with you on, I need to get me some of that. :lol:

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

I'm staying and fighting but if you feel the need:[url]http://marryanamerican.ca/[/url] :twisted: