Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner
[QUOTE=Shpira;924167]Disney does not control your life. Thats true and i never said it does....So let me try and clarify. Logic dictates that a corporation is ultimately only responsible to their share holders...above that their only "responsability" is to obey the most basic laws in the country that they operate in. (i think that is undisputed) Therefore a company will always strive to increase its profits...if that company has its hands in a bunch of industries...its media outlets will be not be hard pressed to report anything that will damage the stock prices of their parent corporation.
people have choices yes...but ultimately social values are imposed on us through the media. They pick one guy put him on the box and suddenly you have an army of people listening to what he says and dressing like he does...and long term developing a value system based largely by what they see on TV.You could argue that this is your chicken and the egg question but that would require mass media objectivity - which doesn't exist. [/QUOTE]
a valid point. social values NOW are being pushed by the media. back then? not so much. and it has nothing, i submit, to do with the prevalence of disney videos or what corporation has bought what corporation.
it's not the media's fault that american's choose to listen to shitheads like snookie and E! tonight. I think it's terrible. I would LOVE to change that though. I don't blame the media, or corporations. I blame the people, the destruction of traditional values, the lack of wisdom....i mean.....there are BIGGER reasons as to why there is a malaise in the united states than simply pointing your finger at corporations.
i'll leave it at this: the influence the media has on the american public is a consequence, not a cause, of the retardation and pussification of american's.
that's what i believe at least. what you see on tv nowadays is a recognition of this fact: to conform communication to what will bring the most profit, and what will bring the most profit being what the people want to see.
we could disagree on this all day long though. i guess in a sense, you CAN hold the corporations culpable...but hardly to the extent you do, and not for the reasons that you do (imho).
[quote]Perhaps I was too blunt. Not really qualifying my thoughts here. I don't mean to say that they necessarily strive for the result it could be argued that its simply a bi-product of the whole sell sell culture. If there was no government you would have corporations who strive for profit and no one to keep them in check...thats surely not desired? are you actually saying that you honestly believe that the world would be a better place without a set of rules and someone to enforce them?? Yes, but if there is transparency in that persons action the impacted party can get the majority to see his point of view and get some help. I don't think that they have a different nature to government employees but a government employee (at least in theory) is employed in the interest of ordinary citizens while a private citizen owes allegiance to no one. LOL at the avatar comment...not gonna get into that[/quote]right. i'm glad you see that. that's the inherent flaw with anarcho-libertarianism. i'm hoping you see that government is an evil, but as such, it is a necessary evil, and. so being a necessary evil, should be constrained as much as possible. if humans are innately tribalistic, naturally greedy....there is no reason to think what one corporation does in absence of a government could not also happen if there was only government and no corporations.
[quote]Population control...its what you call a system which strives to influence the thoughts and feelings of its inhabitants on a daily basis. You have: advertising, mass news outlets, Hollywood, music...now this is not to say that everything ever made works for some kind of dark and sinister plan...but we are a bi-product of our surroundings and its a fact that a large percentage of people in the west will form opinions on the basis of the most available forms of media. [/quote]again, this goes back to my above point.
but if we go back in time, is this not the same thing that happened with books and newspapers?
and if there was no media, no form of entertainment....would we NOT have the government pullling the same shit? War is Peace, Good is Bad, etc....
I don't think we' are a byproduct of our surroundings. I think plenty of people PERMIT that to happen though.
Man has a choice; to use his rational faculties and use them properly, or, to reject reason and revert to the primitive....using emotion, whim, and 'instinct' to guide him. But ultimately, it's a choice.
[quote]We would need to minimise the influence finance has on politics...outlawing financial donations to candidate and all other forms of influence. Only votes should count...referendums etc....[/quote]the only way to do that is to have politicians who are immune from influence. good luck with that! donations? pshh, there are plenty of under the table dealings that have nothing to do with trading money. money is not the only thing that moves pens.
[quote]I don't seek to maximise the size of government as it is...a revamp of some kind is needed most definitely and there is no easy fix. So again you want [B]no [/B]government??...i think you need relax a bit[/quote]i've said this before in the politics section: i'd prefer communism to anarchism as anarchism is simple lawlessness. but i'd prefer a tightly constrained government to national socialism or democratic socialism.
[quote]Again...you are going from extremes to other extremes...thats not what I am saying...but your neighbour bob definitely didn't need that third car and a plasma in his toilet (now bob has lost his job and his car).Thats not even my point...i wanted to point out that the value system of our society is all wrong. Its not valued so much if you are a great person...you are judged by you bank account and position. [/quote]buying cars keeps people working. it puts food on people's table. i personally want a plasma tv in front of my toilet. if your rant is at materialism and excessiveness, i agree. but i dare not tell anyone what they can and cannot buy. i'd rather appeal to their intelligence.
bank account? position? i would like that to be true, but people are not that dumb. plenty of people lose jobs over being an asshole, or not being a team player, or develop poor reputations by making terrible decisions. i think society is MOSTLY right in how we value people; by their productivity. i think it's terrible that we don't value scientists more. that we value power in the presidency more than we do the intelligence of those who write our laws. it's telling...isn't it....how devolved we've become to praise those who can play basketball more than we do those who are working on new technologies. but, this shouldn't be surprising with the whole "corporations are evil, ceo's are evil, money is evil, business is evil." etc.....
[quote]Also...to make slight diversion...I used to live so that everything i owned could be packed in a single suitcase and a backpack...i owned a single pair of jeans and a couple of t shirts...and then i gave up on trying to be a monk :) and got a job...[/quote]funny....i'm slowly moving that direction. maybe not a single suitase, but i've got a list of things that i must necessarily take with me that i could pack in 20 minutes if it came to it. i like my jeans however. both pairs i own. quality over quantity for me. there's a good blog to check out....zen habits and simplelife.....good stuff.
t.
[quote]Again...there are variations of communism...its like saying look at Egypt ..."democracy" must be shit...and yes i am aware of what you are saying...I don't presume a society which is more representative of its inhabitants interests will occur over night...its something to strive for. In essence ultimately....somewhere down the line governments will become obsolete[/quote]if governments become obsolete....doesn't that mean corporations get to do whatever? who will stop their rise to power? governments can't become obsolete. the are a necessary evil, as i've explained above.
[quote]It absolutely makes no difference whether you take over a country or install a puppet and rape that country for their resources...something the US is doing to this very day...but thats neither here nor there. What i am saying is that people need to be educated first...to learn how to treat one another with proper respect. [/quote]there is no other place on earth where a muslim, a jew, a christian, an atheist, a businessman, a socialist, a monk, a satanist, a democrat, a republican, a libertarian, and sarah palin can sit down and eat peacefully in the same restaurant than in new york city. there is more civility in this country than you'll find in most other places on this planet, and i think it's a damn shame people don't give us that credit.
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[quote]the fact is that the world would be in a state of anarchy and your kids wouldn't be safe...that is unfortunately the world that we live in. That is why a change is needed...obviously what we have is not working. Governments should exist to make everyones life better and direct social and scientific development...i don't presume to know all the answers but obviously our society is pretty damn fucked up. Also not all governments are as fucked up as others...people are happier with their establishment in some countries than they are in ours.[/quote]governments do not exist to make your life better. they exist to protect your freedoms so that [I]you make see a better life on your own terms[/I].
[quote]Slave to another? Which other are you talking about here? Yeah that is my fucking point! how many people will fucking die before it fucking becomes profitable to be discovered?? How many new ways to kill a man will be developed by then??? And how many people will die from poisoned water before they find a way to purify water??.........
[/quote]we would be killing each other with bare fists if we had nothing but fists to defend ourselves. this has been happening for millions of years. at will continue to happen until man can live for himself, and only himself, and not seek to initiate violence against another. it's so EASY. and yet, so few choose that path.
we've found a way to purify water. huh?
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[quote]i don't presume that people should be told what to do...but facts should be presented as they are and people should be given a chance to develop their full potential as a human being.[/quote]i agree. and they should be allowed to fail, too. who would seriously care about developing their full potential if they are coddled from cradle to grave? if life was guaranteed ease...nobody would try to become better, greater, or more than they already were.
[quote]Here you assume that I focus on the US...all my criticism is global. Mate seriously calm down before you have a heart attack. :lol:[/quote]
what can i say, i'm a passionate defender of individual liberty, economic freedom, and property rights. it's the one thing that gets me up in the morning and keeps me up late at night. it even keeps me distracted from work and my wife.
i hope that one day i can benefit mankind by spreading such passion.
[quote]I never assumed to get down to that...but we can all agree that food is good and that we all should have enough food to survive...i think that things like that are generally in everyones interest.[/quote]
how can a commodity that is privately produce.....a right? a right is a FREEDOM TO ACT, not a vested interest in the end-result of someone else's productive efforts.
i have no more of a right to food than i do to the mind and cautious hands of a heart surgeon.
[quote]No...both are killers. There is no need for either.[/QUOTE]
ok