Re: The bold and repeated lying

Any specific examples?

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Take your pick from the real deal. There are too many to pick just one: [url="http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf"]http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf[/url]

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=vinnie97;1068744]Take your pick from the real deal. There are too many to pick just one: [URL]http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]

Is that all you do is spew your partisan bullshit with absolutely no back up? Instead of NAMING a handful of points you just put a link to a 2000+ page document and tell us to read it while you fail to read a simple article he posted before? FFS dude.. I apologize but that just annoys me.

Romney's version of "eh, people who don't have health insurance can get health care by going to the Emergency Room. Job Done." is more Commy-like than Obamacare no matter how you look at it. Under Romney's train of thought, you are forcing someone to go to a Emergency Room and effectively having you, me, and everyone else pay for their services because they do not have insurance. At least with Obamacare, you are forcing people to buy insurance from a private company (something Republicans are hell-bent on forcing everything to nowadays) in order to get health care... and yes we have something like this already, it's called Auto & Home Insurance, same fuckin thing generally.

You would logically think that Republicans would Love this bill because when you think about it... as noted before and talked about on SEVERAL different news sites, Obamacare is effectively a Federal version of Romneycare from Mass. This whole mandate was originally a Republican idea. The only reason Republicans hate it now is because they arent the ones putting it into place--pure 100% partisan bullshit politics.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=ddr;1068751]Is that all you do is spew your partisan bullshit with absolutely no back up? Instead of NAMING a handful of points you just put a link to a 2000+ page document and tell us to read it while you fail to read a simple article he posted before? FFS dude.. I apologize but that just annoys me.

Romney's version of "eh, people who don't have health insurance can get health care by going to the Emergency Room. Job Done." is more Commy-like than Obamacare no matter how you look at it. Under Romney's train of thought, you are forcing someone to go to a Emergency Room and effectively having you, me, and everyone else pay for their services because they do not have insurance. At least with Obamacare, you are forcing people to buy insurance from a private company (something Republicans are hell-bent on forcing everything to nowadays) in order to get health care... and yes we have something like this already, it's called Auto & Home Insurance, same fuckin thing generally.

You would logically think that Republicans would Love this bill because when you think about it... as noted before and talked about on SEVERAL different news sites, Obamacare is effectively a Federal version of Romneycare from Mass. This whole mandate was originally a Republican idea. The only reason Republicans hate it now is because they arent the ones putting it into place--pure 100% partisan bullshit politics.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Perhaps we can make it global healthcare? Why simply limit it to one nation?

"You would logically think..."

The 10th Amendment, therefore, is a partisan amendment. We should probably redact it.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=ddr;1068751]Is that all you do is spew your partisan bullshit with absolutely no back up? Instead of NAMING a handful of points you just put a link to a 2000+ page document and tell us to read it while you fail to read a simple article he posted before? FFS dude.. I apologize but that just annoys me.

Romney's version of "eh, people who don't have health insurance can get health care by going to the Emergency Room. Job Done." is more Commy-like than Obamacare no matter how you look at it. Under Romney's train of thought, you are forcing someone to go to a Emergency Room and effectively having you, me, and everyone else pay for their services because they do not have insurance. At least with Obamacare, you are forcing people to buy insurance from a private company (something Republicans are hell-bent on forcing everything to nowadays) in order to get health care... and yes we have something like this already, it's called Auto & Home Insurance, same fuckin thing generally.

You would logically think that Republicans would Love this bill because when you think about it... as noted before and talked about on SEVERAL different news sites, Obamacare is effectively a Federal version of Romneycare from Mass. This whole mandate was originally a Republican idea. The only reason Republicans hate it now is because they arent the ones putting it into place--pure 100% partisan bullshit politics.[/QUOTE] My partisan bullshit? That is the bill itself, directly from that hideous law. I can exist without owning a house or a car, though it may be a challenge, but that is not the case when it comes to simply existing. Car and home insurance mandates are also governed by the state, so the comparison fails yet again. I'm not going to grace the rest of your vitriol with a response until you calm the fuck down.

PS. I NEVER claimed I liked it. I don't give a flying fuck who came up with it (Heritage organization), so quit telling me what I am and mind your own fucking business. If it was so excellent, it should have been passed into law in the 90s when it was introduced. It wasn't popular then and it isn't now. If a state chooses to go this route, they have every right to do so, just as MA did.

You know what, I'm putting you on ignore because I don't need to read this kind of vitriol and risk a heart attack while you spit venom at the screen.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

he mad.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[COLOR=#222222][COLOR=#d3d3d3][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][QUOTE=ddr;1068751]Instead of NAMING a handful of points you just put a link to a 2000+ page document and tell us to read it while you fail to read a simple article he posted before? FFS dude.. I apologize but that just annoys me.[/QUOTE][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222][COLOR=#d3d3d3][FONT=arial][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [QUOTE=vinnie97;1070029] [COLOR=#222222][COLOR=#d3d3d3][FONT=arial][SIZE=2]You know what, I'm putting you on ignore because I don't need to read this kind of vitriol and risk a heart attack while you spit venom at the screen.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

:NotMe::not me:

DDR is one of the more articulate and reasonable participants in the Political section. He's not saying you are partisian bullshit, he's saying the Repubs in office who are all against Obamacare is a bunch of partisian bs. I'm not really sure what the rest of your response even means, but DDR is a good member to discuss politics with, he actually reads and knows what he's talking about most of the time. To put him on ignore over his comment is just silly. He's a cool dude :lol:

Truth is, Obamacare was a Republican bill back in the 90's originally as well.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

All of that's easy for you to say, OJ, because you agree with him. If you don't like my decision, report me to the authorities. Republicans didn't see it as a winning strategy, or they would have obviously continued to pursue it. Demmies didn't give a damn. Anyway, I know hostility when I see it, and as this nightmare of a bill continues to unravel and expands Federal control over our lives (circumventing the constitution, the balance of power, and state rights along with it), that will be justification enough as to my initial perceptions about this bill being dead-on. Please don't preach at me with your faux mediation when it's really nothing more than the equivalent of your way or the highway.

Once again, you don't need to condescend me for the 2nd time by reminding me about a minority group of Republicans who pushed for this type of legislation in the 90s, as that is immaterial to how it was foisted upon the populace in 2010. I voted for the constitution party in this election cycle along with tea party candidates in local and state races; a lot of good that did thanks to those media types who latched onto the D talking points and went hyperbolic with those who spoke a little too freely about their convictions about the sanctity of life.

PS. Mind your own business.

PPS. You guys won, you don't need neanderthals like me to see it your way. Just own up to whatever box of goodies it brings.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Repubs hate it and Romney tried not to talk about it at all because they wanted to oppose anything Obama did to try and get back in the office. Well that failed. Also your rights arent being taken away give me a break. Your taxes will go up if you opt out, since SCOTUS said it is a tax. You have no problem with Social Security, Medicare, the fire department and the police right? Those are "socialist" state/gov't run things people seem to have no problem with.

The good thing is the election is over and those few white rich dudes who are pissed it didn't go their way will still try to get Grover Norquist to oppose any tax changes but they are slowly losing power. Look at how some Repubs slapped Romney down after his conf call about Obama winning because he gives away "free stuff".

Re: The bold and repeated lying

*usps too

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Oh noes the "I'm gonna put you on ignore" threat. Wow, that's telling them.

Why not go for the double and remove them from your facebook friends list, and maybe telling them that you're not going to invite them to your next sleep over party.

Jesus fucking Christ.

It says a fuck of a lot when Mitt Romey delayed his concession speech because he didn't have one - he actually thought he was going to win, despite the fact that you're in a very close election race. Don't believe me? Then why the fuck did he spend $25K on fireworks? Because he wanted to go out big?

The Tea Party is part of the problem with the Republican party - they're causing a division in the political party that is rapidly starting to show. I don't envy any Republican party member that is faced with this possibly career ending catch 22 - if they go the way of the Tea Party's refusal to compromise or make concessions, they risk losing their moderates and if they go with the moderates, they risk losing their rabid base that they had capitulated for for so long, that they're now feeling entitled to having their way or nothing.

Times have changed already, they're facing a new world where you can't rely on the WASP demographic to carry you to victory because they're the minority. Social issues have become much more complex than something that can be summed up in talking points.

Clint Eastwood talking to the empty chair during the shitshow that was the RNC was more symbolic than anyone I think ever anticipated.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=Highsteppa;1070587] Clint Eastwood talking to the empty chair during the shitshow that was the RNC was more symbolic than anyone I think ever anticipated.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Za7OP.gif[/IMG]

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=Highsteppa;1070587] It says a fuck of a lot when Mitt Romey delayed his concession speech because he didn't have one - he actually thought he was going to win, despite the fact that you're in a very close election race. Don't believe me? Then why the fuck did he spend $25K on fireworks? Because he wanted to go out big? [/quote]

I wonder if they really believed this or if this was just bluster. Anyone with half of a brain and who was looking at the actual numbers had Obama winning by a large margin weeks before election. That is why Nate Silver predicted every state correctly. It is hard to believe save for the Fox newscasters being sensational that anyone who was really involved with the campaigns would be ignoring this data.

We will see how long/if the Repubs will hold strong and not budge at all for this fiscal cliff biznezz. If they won't compromise at all Obama just needs to start making them look extremely bad by going to the public to get things resolved. Since he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected anymore he should start pointing fingers more.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=res0nat0r;1070669]We will see how long/if the Repubs will hold strong and not budge at all for this fiscal cliff biznezz. If they won't compromise at all Obama just needs to start making them look extremely bad by going to the public to get things resolved. Since he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected anymore he should start pointing fingers more.[/QUOTE]

Repubs will probably compromise and agree to a tax increase, like you said, I don't think they really have a choice. However taxing the rich will never pay for all the entitlement programs his administration wants to continue to fund. Cutting spending is the only option at this point, but I don't see the dems compromising on that. Our country's debt lies squarely in the hands of the current administration. I'm interested to see if they can make the right choices or if we'll have to fall to some extreme measures because of our ever increasing debt. At the current spending rate, we are definitely in for "change". :|

Re: The bold and repeated lying

We all need to be paying more taxes for better infrastructure. I heard a report on NPR today about financiers pretty much cutting budgets on the big gas and electric co's and now we're fucked when natural disasters hit populated areas. It's a serious issue for sure, our roads and bridges are all crumbling as well, since Regan moved the country away from the New Deal.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=res0nat0r;1070669]I wonder if they really believed this or if this was just bluster. Anyone with half of a brain and who was looking at the actual numbers had Obama winning by a large margin weeks before election. That is why Nate Silver predicted every state correctly. It is hard to believe save for the Fox newscasters being sensational that anyone who was really involved with the campaigns would be ignoring this data.[/quote]

I think it's something both the right and the left were guilty of: insulating themselves in reports and data that catered to their point of view, which is a very dangerous and foolish thing to do. There's a lot of shit that goes on with MSNBC that mirrors the horseshit that goes on with Fox News, the difference to me is that Fox News screams a fuck of a lot more louder and with a bit more flamboyance. MSNBC just doesn't have the same panache with the idiotic statements they're capable of saying - and therefore don't get as much attention.

Also, remember that Karl Rove was involved with the Romney side of things - when he was bitching at the Fox News peeps about how they called Ohio in Obama's favor, with "only" 77% of the tally in, it spoke volumes about how fucking delusional he was.

[quote]We will see how long/if the Repubs will hold strong and not budge at all for this fiscal cliff biznezz. If they won't compromise at all Obama just needs to start making them look extremely bad by going to the public to get things resolved. Since he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected anymore he should start pointing fingers more.[/QUOTE]

I don't envy the Repubs with the crisis they're facing - like I said, the more extreme wing of their base has gotten used to calling the shots and being listened to since 9/11 and are losing their clout now. In the process, they've alienated the moderates that might lean to the right and could vote Republican. It doesn't help that you've got retards like Trump, Michelle Bachman or even Newt Gingrich and the other talking heads/commentators who are there to promote themselves more than actually contributing to their cause.

The thing that's really got their nuts in a vice is Grover Norquist's moronic pledge - and I don't really blame Norquist as much as I do the short sightedness in having signed that pledge in the first place. Norquist is a lobbyist - he's doing his job, even if the pledge he came up was politically convenient 20 years ago to oppose Clinton's presidency. They should have been seen as political suicide for anyone that might be able to see that if things got tough economically while they were in office with such an open ended worded pledge - seriously, who the fuck stays in one position for their entire tenure as a politician? For them to blame Norquist for this is kind of dumb and the grandstanding that you're seeing Graham and other Repubs about how they're "standing up" to him is nothing but political theater, they knew what they were signing up for, they should own up to it. I think that clintlove is on the nose with them going to capitulate, but what they're going to have to answer to with their far right supporters is going to cause casualties with their own numbers.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=clintlove;1070678]Repubs will probably compromise and agree to a tax increase, like you said, I don't think they really have a choice. However taxing the rich will never pay for all the entitlement programs his administration wants to continue to fund. Cutting spending is the only option at this point, but I don't see the dems compromising on that. Our country's debt lies squarely in the hands of the current administration. I'm interested to see if they can make the right choices or if we'll have to fall to some extreme measures because of our ever increasing debt. At the current spending rate, we are definitely in for "change". :|[/QUOTE]

Why can't we increase taxes AND also cut wasteful spending?

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=Highsteppa;1070684]I think it's something both the right and the left were guilty of: insulating themselves in reports and data that catered to their point of view, which is a very dangerous and foolish thing to do. There's a lot of shit that goes on with MSNBC that mirrors the horseshit that goes on with Fox News, the difference to me is that Fox News screams a fuck of a lot more louder and with a bit more flamboyance. MSNBC just doesn't have the same panache with the idiotic statements they're capable of saying - and therefore don't get as much attention.

Also, remember that Karl Rove was involved with the Romney side of things - when he was bitching at the Fox News peeps about how they called Ohio in Obama's favor, with "only" 77% of the tally in, it spoke volumes about how fucking delusional he was.

I don't envy the Repubs with the crisis they're facing - like I said, the more extreme wing of their base has gotten used to calling the shots and being listened to since 9/11 and are losing their clout now. In the process, they've alienated the moderates that might lean to the right and could vote Republican. It doesn't help that you've got retards like Trump, Michelle Bachman or even Newt Gingrich and the other talking heads/commentators who are there to promote themselves more than actually contributing to their cause.

The thing that's really got their nuts in a vice is Grover Norquist's moronic pledge - and I don't really blame Norquist as much as I do the short sightedness in having signed that pledge in the first place. Norquist is a lobbyist - he's doing his job, even if the pledge he came up was politically convenient 20 years ago to oppose Clinton's presidency. They should have been seen as political suicide for anyone that might be able to see that if things got tough economically while they were in office with such an open ended worded pledge - seriously, who the fuck stays in one position for their entire tenure as a politician? For them to blame Norquist for this is kind of dumb and the grandstanding that you're seeing Graham and other Repubs about how they're "standing up" to him is nothing but political theater, they knew what they were signing up for, they should own up to it. I think that clintlove is on the nose with them going to capitulate, but what they're going to have to answer to with their far right supporters is going to cause casualties with their own numbers.[/QUOTE]

Agree...

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=res0nat0r;1070692]Why can't we increase taxes AND also cut wasteful spending?[/QUOTE]

Of course, there should be compromise on both sides. If there's an increase in taxes there should be a decrease in spending, but I personally don't think dems will cut spending. At least not in the areas that are most wasteful.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Obama wanted to reduce military spending he stated during the debates and that looks like it is about 19% of spending right now, so hopefully that plus some smart cuts to bloated healthcare costs would actually be something that could make a difference.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

How much of the deficit is from Bush's war again?

Re: The bold and repeated lying

:deadhorse:

Re: The bold and repeated lying

It is a dead horse...but it is a fact. It is dumb to blame the entire deficit on obama screwing the world up due to what happened in 2008 when he took office and the two wars going on prior. Fox will say it doesnt matter, but they are morons.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Interesting discussion about how our society is turning into a market society from a market economy yesterday. I'd say we are all at fault to a certain extent. No real sense in calling one side liars.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

^Defo don't watch fox or msnbc then. both those channels are too one sided :lol:

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=floridaorange;1070923]Interesting discussion about how our society is turning into a market society from a market economy yesterday. I'd say we are all at fault to a certain extent. No real sense in calling one side liars.[/QUOTE]

Because everything else makes sense :lol:

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=Alexudis;1070954]Because everything else makes sense :lol:[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what "everything else" you're referring to?

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/obama-accepts-corporate-cash-inaugural-191121195--abc-news-politics.html"]Obama Accepts Corporate Cash for Inaugural - Yahoo! News[/url]

how about this for lying, he fooled ya again :)

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[FONT=arial][SIZE=2]NOLA residents have every right to be skeptical of politicians. No offense Clint, but you know as well as I do that politics in NOLA have been corrupt for a very long time. I understand your skepticism. It's kind of like citizens of Russia thinking Bush was behind 9/11. Not comparing Russia with NOLA, just saying citizens of corrupt govt's have a slightly skewed perception of MOST politicians. I say that as kindly as possible, kind of in a hurry right now so I don't have time for a long form response. peace and brb

[/SIZE][/FONT][quote][COLOR=#d3d3d3][FONT=Georgia]Committee officials counter that Mr. Obama is using standards adopted by civic institutions that take corporate money, including museums, philanthropic groups and service organizations like the Red Cross.[/FONT][FONT=arial][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT] [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][COLOR=#d3d3d3][FONT=Georgia]The committee has laid down some guidelines for the kind of corporate money it will accept, an official said. Corporations that accepted money from the government’s Troubled Asset Relief Program, used to rescue the financial system during the economic meltdown of 2008 and 2009, will not be able to donate unless they have paid back the TARP money.[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/quote]

Re: The bold and repeated lying

You gonna' keep up defense for 4 more years? Wonder how bad the situation on the ground will have to get before you have second thoughts.

Here's another job for you. Would you mind explaining to me how these specific tax increases move us toward a healthcare-for-all utopia: [url="http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view/20221210tax_to_hit_job_creators/"]Tax to hit job creators - BostonHerald.com[/url]

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Stop focusing like crazy on this one point of tax increases for medical devices. The world is not going to collapse because of that. Also stop saying "job creators".

Re: The bold and repeated lying

The date of doom just keeps getting pushed back. ;)

Sounds kind of like that crazy church dude who's called for 6 days of reckoning and each one....nothing happened!

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=res0nat0r;1072343]Stop focusing like crazy on this one point of tax increases for medical devices. The world is not going to collapse because of that. Also stop saying "job creators".[/QUOTE] Don't tell me what to type. I didn't "say" it, the article did. And yes, it's just one more example of unintended (or otherwise) consequences coming together as "death by a 1000 cuts."

But you're on the same train as OJ, knock yourself out.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=vinnie97;1072345]

But you're on the same train as OJ, knock yourself out.[/QUOTE]

As the majority of Americans* ...who voted to re-elect this communist foreigner.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Not really, the public has a short attention span, and gaining 108% of the vote in some precincts is not legitimate (yes, I'm saying there was fraud). Never seen a single poll that claims this bill is popular. The above tax is due even for those companies who are managing to break even, I'm sure that's gonna' help those in need of these life-sustaining (in many cases) devices. And yes, Barack is a commie at heart (accusations of corporatism aside...there is such a thing as means to an end), too bad it's going to take another 4 years for the majority to see it. Fundamental transformation isn't a walk in the park, and words actually mean something last I checked.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Pravda is/was a mouthpiece for totalitarianism, so they know it when they see it:

[url="http://times247.com/articles/pravda-with-obama-s-re-election-communism-won"]Pravda: Obama re-elected, communism wins | Times 247 [/url]

Re: The bold and repeated lying

[QUOTE=vinnie97;1072411]Not really, the public has a short attention span, and gaining 108% of the vote in some precincts is not legitimate (yes, I'm saying there was fraud). Never seen a single poll that claims this bill is popular. The above tax is due even for those companies who are managing to break even, I'm sure that's gonna' help those in need of these life-sustaining (in many cases) devices. And yes, Barack is a commie at heart (accusations of corporatism aside...there is such a thing as means to an end), too bad it's going to take another 4 years for the majority to see it. Fundamental transformation isn't a walk in the park, and words actually mean something last I checked.[/QUOTE]

What planet are you typing this from again? lulz.

Re: The bold and repeated lying

He comes from the planet 50R3 1053R

Re: The bold and repeated lying

I think this is a good example of how he is driving all of us straight towards the breadlines: [url="http://news.yahoo.com/u-treasury-exits-aig-bailout-profit-22-7-123152397--finance.html"]U.S. Treasury to sell remaining AIG shares for $7.6 billion - Yahoo! News[/url]

quote - The U.S. Treasury's sale of its remaining stake in American International Group Inc will fetch $7.6 billion, bringing the government a total profit of $22.7 billion from its crisis-era bailout of the insurer.[/quote]

Re: The bold and repeated lying

Yet you didn't show me a single poll showing commiecare was ever a popular bill. There have been countless showing the inverse. Here's the most recent since you deflected (as per usual): [url="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83427.html"]Exit polls 2012: Split on Obamacare - Emily Schultheis - POLITICO.com[/url]

Ooh, $7.6B out of 16T, another drop in the bucket.

And as if I didn't need more evidence, Head of the Jobs Council praising "state-run communism" on OJ's favorite, Charlie Rose, this morning:

[URL="http://freebeacon.com/immelt-state-run-communism-in-china-works/"]Immelt: State Run Communism in China Works | Washington Free Beacon[/URL]

[quote] CHARLIE ROSE: China is changing. It may be being stabilized as we speak. What does that mean for China and what does it mean for the United States? Should it change expectations?

JEFF IMMELT: It is good for China. To a certain extent, Charlie, 11 percent is unsustainable. You end up getting too much stimulus or a misallocation of resources. They are much better off working on a more consumer-based economy, less dependent on exports. The one thing that actually works, state run communism a bit– may not be your cup of tea, but their government works.[/quote]