Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

At least Guy J is still doing his stuff on YouTube.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

The only way I could listen to the Bunker mixes was through MS via the links posted after the event. I'm a bit more of a casual listener these days. If they are not easily available, I will no doubt just not bother tracking them down. Surely Digweed is reducing his exposure/audience here?

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231144]It is funny. Years ago artists would be stoked just to have their track played by DJ's like Sasha, Digweed, Oakenfold. I met a a guy in a pub in London a few years ago. He had a track on Sasha's Ibiza cd and another on Tenaglia's London one. I don't know if he got paid much for it, but you could tell he was more proud of the fact that his tracks were on them CD's, I think that he would have let them use the tracks for free.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm.. Patrick Reid?

But yeh I've got a couple of friends whose tracks were played regularly back in the day by all the big prog jocks and it was the ultimate for them. They didn't give a shite about any money , all they wanted was to hear their tunes had been played or better still be there when it happened.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=ENNISELLIS;1231119]Okay, I'm getting bombarded by people asking me to put up FLAC links for, well, pretty much every Bunker set. Sorry I haven't replied to everyone individually. Also sorry, but I have no interest in doing this. I prefer torrenting on private sites to keeping an eye on links that go dead every 5 minutes and advertising the fact of what I am doing to all and sundry. Unfortunately the DMCA threat has scared off the torrent sites too, so that's no longer an option either.

I haven't used Soulseek much for many years, but I do have that installed (I think), so I am considering moving them all over to there and sharing them that way for those that want them. Let me know if there would be any interest in me doing that and I will get something organised.

Feck knows what happens with future Bunkers, as I've no idea how Mood was capturing the Mixcloud streams. Otherwise I'd give that a go myself too. Think we just have to treat them like a club set. Enjoy the experience but accept no one recorded it, and if the DJ did, they are firmly under lock and key until they get used for a radio show or summat.[/QUOTE]

Whilst sharing is caring, and it is what ms is about. best to cover your back. last thing you want is any legal grief. remember they see everything on the interwebz!

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Yep. Agree with all this and I've already banged on about sound quality, so no need to repeat that on top of what you have all said. I don't really know much about Phil K (RIP), beyond the fact he was a killer DJ and own a few of his CDs on top of the various mixes floating around out there. Wouldn't be the biggest surprise to find someone who cares about music also cares about sound quality too. I've had this argument elsewhere when there is only a digital option for a release and only in MP3. Why bother taking the time to careful master your recordings only to have them encoded into a format that immediately reduces the sound quality of what you are hearing? Physical, FLAC/WAV/ALAC, or nothing IMO. People need t stop seeing MP3 as the gold standard. It's fine if you're listening to music on your phone through earbuds whilst jogging or whatever, but it's not a substitute for those other formats as a master copy.

Two other things - 1. This has been a long time coming. No one makes money out of music licensing any more unless it's for a big advert or hollywood blockbuster (the old "we can't pay you but we can give you exposure" / "Exposure isn't a valid form of bill payment mate" argument), so there was always going to be a clamping down on file sharing, even online mixes etc, in order to extract an extra 3p a month and 2. This all kicked off during the first lockdown when managers of certain DJs were trying to monetise mixes on Bandcamp. The likes of Dave Clarke and John Askew said it was a bad look when people were struggling to pay the bills, and criticized the likes of Coxy for letting them have sets to sell. This seems to me to be the same thing, just under a different, more respectable looking, coat of paint.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

As for the Bunkers themselves - I'm just going to pretend they ended with #27 and get on with my life. Plenty of other stuff to listen to...

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

I'm going to say my piece on this and then leave you all to think about what I'm saying.

Most of you don't actually realize what goes into making the music you download pleasing to the ear and enjoyable, that shit costs money to produce, master and get out there. "free promotion" just doesn't pay bills, in fact it's actually more damaging than you think, we all like a mix and for the majority of good sound people on ms actually go to shops and buy music but looks at the amount of traffic ms has these days, it's not exactly heaving with people is it ?

The same thing can be said about the amount of people who actually download a mix and then go out and buy music, most are happy just to play the mix till they get bored of the tracks they like on it and don't give a shit about the people who are actually mixing/producing the stuff. As we get older, scene is what ? 30 years old now ? most people's priorities have changed, they've grown up and have less disposable income which in fact means they spend less on things like music which is a non essential commodity.

Everyone likes something free but truth is that if you truly love the scene then think long and hard about the people that make money from it, they're really struggling atm and not just because of covid, there are other factors that need to be considered also, some of which I've already talked about in this reply. You have no idea as a musician myself the money I've spent just to get tracks decent enough to be considered to either release or be considered for a label and nothing quite hits the spot like when you finally get something signed only to be told you won't make any money out of it because the label is running at a loss.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=lord lucan;1231149]Hmmm.. Patrick Reid?

But yeh I've got a couple of friends whose tracks were played regularly back in the day by all the big prog jocks and it was the ultimate for them. They didn't give a shite about any money , all they wanted was to hear their tunes had been played or better still be there when it happened.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. That was the guy. I think that if you are making a track to make money, you may want to reconsider it. Years ago people would pay money just to press their track to Vinal in the hope that it would get played even once.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231156]Yeah. That was the guy. I think that if you are making a track to make money, you may want to reconsider it. Years ago people would pay money just to press their track to Vinal in the hope that it would get played even once.[/QUOTE]

That's it lads (and lady) DJ culture is officially cancelled because there are no longer any producers out there, time to close Bedrock and Last night on earth.

Chris you don't half talk out of your arse sometimes, why did the producer print his track to vinyl and hope for a play ?

go on please tell me because I'm dying to know!

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=thebanned1;1231157]That's it lads (and lady) DJ culture is officially cancelled because there are no longer any producers out there, time to close Bedrock and Last night on earth.

Chris you don't half talk out of your arse sometimes, why did the producer print his track to vinyl and hope for a play ?

go on please tell me because I'm dying to know![/QUOTE]

This is easy. Because he loved the scene. He just wanted his track to be played. For it to be played on what people classed as a master piece is something many artists would have taken to the grave. I assume that you are dead now.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231159]This is easy. Because he loved the scene. He just wanted his track to be played. For it to be played on what people classed as a master piece is something many artists would have taken to the grave. I assume that you are dead now.[/QUOTE] Yea Chris RIGHT....it had nothing to do with shifting the other 299 records he/she has in stock...I know you're talking shit here and the reason is quite simple. Pressing plants have a minimum order before they'll press the wax, you don't just walk into a pressing plant with your wav and ask for them to press it to vinyl. that's not how it works. Sure you can get a dub plate cut but even that costs a fucking fortune and today there are only two places that do it, no-one does dub plates anymore.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Oh and another thing, your music has to be mastered specifically for vinyl

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Do I think that Pattrick Reid gave a fuck if he sold 299 units, no. I think that he would have given more to have a track on a mix comp by one of the greatest DJ's that ever lived, on what is considered one of his best pieces of work.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231162]Do I think that Pattrick Reid gave a fuck if he sold 299 units, no. I think that he would have given more to have a track on a mix comp by one of the greatest DJ's that ever lived, on what is considered one of his best pieces of work.[/QUOTE]

That's just it though Chris, you don't give a fuck, you've plenty to say when the time comes though, you've been living in free land for far too long and you know absolutely jack shit about what goes into making a records but as long as it's free you'll sit there and listen to it all day...didn't you once say that you didn't buy music because there was plenty out there free ?

Anyone that says they're in music for nothing but the love is lying or fucking stupid, one or the other, those days are long gone, long gone. I bet the guy in your example had a nice wee payday when/after the CD was released which would've been nice for him, it probably also put him on the map for future releases. I'm pretty sure that Patrick had no idea in advance that he was going to be on the CD, talking about when he went to the pressing plant so yea he was also in it to make money is my guess unless he had a magic ball and could see into the future.

You can't sit there and talk about support/exposure and the music business when it's pretty clear you know fuck all about the production side of things. Do you honestly think that all these DJs who don't do podcasts, stream on YouTube and other places and don't allow downloads in places like soundcloud like the fact that people are recording and sharing their work ? of course they don't, this is why they do their performance on these places in low quality.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Are you smoking crack tonight Dom? Can you please post a link to where I have stated that I don't buy music because there is plenty for free?

I love your conspiracy theory as to why acts do their performance in low quality. Proper wack job shit that one.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231164]Are you smoking crack tonight Dom? Can you please post a link to where I have stated that I don't buy music because there is plenty for free?[/QUOTE] I distinctly remember you saying you don't buy mix CDs anymore so no I'm not smoking crack.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

I love your conspiracy theory as to why acts do their performance in low quality. Proper wack job shit that one.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[quote=thebanned1;1231165]i distinctly remember you saying you don't buy mix cds anymore so no i'm not smoking crack.[/quote]

link?

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231167]link?[/QUOTE]

I'm not going through your thousand aliases to find it but yea you did write that IIRC

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Top Drawer cuntery here tonight LOL

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

You think ?

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

No, I know. LOL

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

why don't we ask others if they saw your post too ?

it's a case of too posh to push with you Chris and it always has been.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231166]I love your conspiracy theory as to why acts do their performance in low quality. Proper wack job shit that one.[/QUOTE] Bush did it mate...it was Bush

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=thebanned1;1231173]why don't we ask others if they saw your post too ?

it's a case of too posh to push with you Chris and it always has been.[/QUOTE]

I think that is a marvellous idea. Ok, who saw it?.... See, I told you. LOL

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

And we're done here. If anyone is man enough to back me up on you writing that then don't run away crying like a little bitch.

LOL at you trying the conspiracy thing on me when there is page after page of you ranting that George Bush was responsible for 9/11..yea top drawer whacko mate, indeed.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Tatty bye chris xxxxxxx

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

here's hoping #28 gets released in 320.. or even 128. i will be missing it live.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=thebanned1;1231176]And we're done here. If anyone is man enough to back me up on you writing that then don't run away crying like a little bitch.

LOL at you trying the conspiracy thing on me when there is page after page of you ranting that George Bush was responsible for 9/11..yea top drawer whacko mate, indeed.[/QUOTE]

No takers man enough to back you up LOL. I'm still waiting for your sleeper cells to do something substantial.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=NastyD;1231145]At least Guy J is still doing his stuff on YouTube.[/QUOTE] His Echos mixes have been uploaded to his Soundcloud as well. If you are a premium subscriber as I am, you get higher audio quality.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=♫♫♫♫♫♫;1231179]I'm still waiting for your sleeper cells to do something substantial.[/QUOTE]

Yea because Bush done it, Bush done it all mate, the Manchester bombing the lot, covert stuff for the oil.

Jesus fucking Christ Chris I'd expect better from you but the bar is so low. :lol:

[img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x3V9RPwwEDw/hqdefault.jpg[/img]

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Last time MS witnessed a flame war Bush was still president.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=thebanned1;1231160]Yea Chris RIGHT....it had nothing to do with shifting the other 299 records he/she has in stock...I know you're talking shit here and the reason is quite simple. Pressing plants have a minimum order before they'll press the wax, you don't just walk into a pressing plant with your wav and ask for them to press it to vinyl. that's not how it works. Sure you can get a dub plate cut but even that costs a fucking fortune and today there are only two places that do it, no-one does dub plates anymore.[/QUOTE]

This is massively wide of the mark. You obviously weren't about early to late 90s I take it? I have two friends who both did nothing but try and make music purely for Sasha and digweed. Simon noble and Rowan blades did the same too. However my friends did it purely and I mean purely to make music as a hobby. They still both do and they still only do it as a hobby. They both have day jobs because making niche prog records ain't gonna make you rich. So both of them have featured on some big CDs and they went on to work with some real big noises individually but still just kept it as a hobby. They even started a label to put their own tracks on which ran at a loss the entire time. They didn't care though because all they wanted to do was make tracks and send them to DJs. You seem to struggle with this concept? One of them now has a label that still gets tracks played by the big jocks and it STILL runs at aloss propped up by his full time job. I tell you for nothing both of them saw fuck all for featuring on the big CDs and they'd have happily paid for the privilege the same they would hearing that one of their tracks had been dropped on the essential mix. I think your views are how you see it and that's fair enough but don't speak for everyone because that's simply not the case.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Would be real interested in knowing just how Mixcloud pay the artists who's tracks are played by others, such as Digweed. Is it per play basis, one-off for it being in a set?

Also would be real interested in knowing what % of Mixcloud's subscriber money (both premium & select subscriptions) they actually give to said artists. They clearly aren't investing in providing the user an acceptable web page or phone app, nor are they bothering to give acceptable audio quality.

Lastly, would love to know just how well Digweed himself does out of this - Let's be honest, he's been the face of Mixcloud for a while now, pushing his Transitions show & now with the Bunker sets, as well as moving away from Facebook.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

Was thinking this yesterday. Lets face it there's isn't going to be some goon trolling through mixes paying labels and artists individually. They wont have a clue how to put such a mechanism in place. Especially when it comes to the older tracks from the 90s. Labels gone, artists gone. It will be some half arsed badly written algorithm type shit that doesn't work. I put my house on it hardly any cunt gets paid either. Not as if they will be audited for it but should be. Especially when youre claiming to do so.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=Knightsfan87;1231195]Would be real interested in knowing just how Mixcloud pay the artists who's tracks are played by others, such as Digweed. Is it per play basis, one-off for it being in a set?

Also would be real interested in knowing what % of Mixcloud's subscriber money (both premium & select subscriptions) they actually give to said artists. They clearly aren't investing in providing the user an acceptable web page or phone app, nor are they bothering to give acceptable audio quality.

Lastly, would love to know just how well Digweed himself does out of this - Let's be honest, he's been the face of Mixcloud for a while now, pushing his Transitions show & now with the Bunker sets, as well as moving away from Facebook.[/QUOTE]

It will the same way all the other services are avoiding paying artists. :(

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=lord lucan;1231194]This is massively wide of the mark. You obviously weren't about early to late 90s I take it? I have two friends who both did nothing but try and make music purely for Sasha and digweed. Simon noble and Rowan blades did the same too. However my friends did it purely and I mean purely to make music as a hobby. They still both do and they still only do it as a hobby. They both have day jobs because making niche prog records ain't gonna make you rich. So both of them have featured on some big CDs and they went on to work with some real big noises individually but still just kept it as a hobby. They even started a label to put their own tracks on which ran at a loss the entire time. They didn't care though because all they wanted to do was make tracks and send them to DJs. You seem to struggle with this concept? One of them now has a label that still gets tracks played by the big jocks and it STILL runs at aloss propped up by his full time job. I tell you for nothing both of them saw fuck all for featuring on the big CDs and they'd have happily paid for the privilege the same they would hearing that one of their tracks had been dropped on the essential mix. I think your views are how you see it and that's fair enough but don't speak for everyone because that's simply not the case.[/QUOTE]

"They didn't care though because all they wanted to do was make tracks and send them to DJs." I struggle with that concept. Find me a producer that wouldn't want to recognised by his peers and paid for it as well !! I seem to remember Rowan Blades had an interest in copyright issues as well.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=lord lucan;1231194]This is massively wide of the mark. You obviously weren't about early to late 90s I take it? I have two friends who both did nothing but try and make music purely for Sasha and digweed. Simon noble and Rowan blades did the same too. However my friends did it purely and I mean purely to make music as a hobby. They still both do and they still only do it as a hobby. They both have day jobs because making niche prog records ain't gonna make you rich. So both of them have featured on some big CDs and they went on to work with some real big noises individually but still just kept it as a hobby. They even started a label to put their own tracks on which ran at a loss the entire time. They didn't care though because all they wanted to do was make tracks and send them to DJs. You seem to struggle with this concept? One of them now has a label that still gets tracks played by the big jocks and it STILL runs at aloss propped up by his full time job. I tell you for nothing both of them saw fuck all for featuring on the big CDs and they'd have happily paid for the privilege the same they would hearing that one of their tracks had been dropped on the essential mix. I think your views are how you see it and that's fair enough but don't speak for everyone because that's simply not the case.[/QUOTE]

Without getting into an argument, it's not wide off the mark and I did say you could get a dubplate cut ( i think the place in London was/is called music house ). In the 90s the bar was even higher than it is today because pressing plants had a higher minimum order, this is why the label you're talking about ran at a loss, in the 90's production way out done demand so getting a track played by a big named DJ helped shift units.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

I subscribed to Select, I must be mental.

Re: John Digweed - Bunker Session #27 (07-11-20)

[QUOTE=DIDI;1231202]"They didn't care though because all they wanted to do was make tracks and send them to DJs." I struggle with that concept. Find me a producer that wouldn't want to recognised by his peers and paid for it as well !! I seem to remember Rowan Blades had an interest in copyright issues as well.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean find me? Ive just given you two examples . Some people arent in it for the money, how hard is that to get a grasp of for fuck sake? They made and still make music just for a buzz irrespective of monetary gain. Is that really so hard for you? They have full time jobs and making music is a hobby. That's all. A hobby. Thyve run labels at a loss purely because thats what you do when youre passionate about something. Many businesses' run at a loss . Again, why is that hard to believe for you? Its actually you that cant get youre head around a concept.