Re: Bloody hell - Wacko Jacko is dead :(

There are times when someone with a very high profile dies that I do feel a genuine loss, Princess Dianna, Freddie Mercury, etc. I just haven't felt anything after this news though, which has surprised me.

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[quote=AchtungBaby!;763932]Guess MJ was not loved as much as I thought in the states.. Thought his incredible talent was beyond his personal life but obviously is not, at leats for some of the comments here...[/quote] There was a time when he was, but unfortunately his actions have over shadowed that. Even though he was never found guilty he pretty much was in the eyes of some people. After all, he did settle out of court on a couple of cases and that pretty much sums it up. You don't settle if nothing happened.

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^ Absolutely.. In fact i think he actually was pretty much guilty on that issue.. and you don´t want to be guilty on that kind of acusations but anyway his dead is kind of sad imo.. His life was unique and certanly difficult so, only God knows what happened inside that troubled mind..

RIP Michael

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fuck it, i truly don't care about him on a personal level. what he did for music though was honorable.

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[quote=Funky Dredd;763945]There was a time when he was, but unfortunately his actions have over shadowed that. Even though he was never found guilty he pretty much was in the eyes of some people. After all, he did settle out of court on a couple of cases and that pretty much sums it up. You don't settle if nothing happened.[/quote] Look, don't get my wrong as someone claiming Michael Jackson's as innocent, because I honestly don't know. But this notion that settling "proves" guilt is false.

People and businesses settle legal disputes [I]all the time[/I] without admitting guilt or necessarily [I]being[/I] guilty at all. Why would you do that? Because it may be cheaper and less riskier to settle and make the issue just go away than to spend (in certain cases) hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars fighting it (especially when you factor in opportunity cost of time involved) and then rolling the dice with a jury of twelve.

Remember that the outcome ultimately rests not in what really happened / didn't happen, but in [I]what you can convince the jury to believe happened / didn't happen[/I]. Most of the time, those two sides align and we get good outcomes...but not always (See OJ and countless stories of people who rotted in jail for decades before DNA tests proved their innocence). So it is always to some degree a risk when you submit to a verdict by a group of twelve. Is that risk worth it if, especially if you have significant assets that enable you to settle? Maybe...maybe not.

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^^ Miro.. Well, maybe will have some bussines settle in the future.. Who knows.. But i´m pretty sure that NEVER be settle for something like Michael was, i can tell you that.. For other hand, theres a lot a people thinking how to make easy money, and Michael had a lot so.. you´ll never know...

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[quote=Life on Other Planets AKA Johns;763852]RIP MICHAEL :( you are now in a better place now.

To all the people with the jokes and stuff, GROW THE FUCK UP. There is no proff that he did sexually abuse anyone. Until there is please stop with the jokes. Non of them are funny. I will repeat NON of them are funny. This world has lost a person with a big heart and it is sad that even after he is dead us so called HUMANS the Intellectual Beings on this planet still degrade him.. How Sad..[/quote]

:lol: As far as his musical contribution I believe you certainly can't argue that. So that I will respect. And I'm able to see other's opinion that there's no proof he was a child molester. But he admitted to sleeping with small children. in my book unless it's your own kid's that at least makes you a weirdo. So please people you have your own opinions, others have their's. i certainly wouldn't want my kid's in his "Secret" room.

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:) Welcome back John!

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^^ thanks mate :)

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[quote=AchtungBaby!;763932]Guess MJ was not loved as much as I thought in the states.. Thought his incredible talent was beyond his personal life but obviously is not, at leats for some of the comments here...[/quote]

actually he was adored here b4 he went wacked....then he was almost to the point of being hated in the U.S. he was only popular and liked in the rest of the world after all the craziness. we wrote him off as a freak.

it seemed that us media would constatnly attack/report him in every crazy way possible there for a while. he totally dissapeard the last 4 years...so they had nothing to report

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[quote=Miroslav;763964]Look, don't get my wrong as someone claiming Michael Jackson's as innocent, because I honestly don't know. But this notion that settling "proves" guilt is false.

People and businesses settle legal disputes [I]all the time[/I] without admitting guilt or necessarily [I]being[/I] guilty at all. Why would you do that? Because it may be cheaper and less riskier to settle and make the issue just go away than to spend (in certain cases) hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars fighting it (especially when you factor in opportunity cost of time involved) and then rolling the dice with a jury of twelve.

Remember that the outcome ultimately rests not in what really happened / didn't happen, but in [I]what you can convince the jury to believe happened / didn't happen[/I]. Most of the time, those two sides align and we get good outcomes...but not always (See OJ and countless stories of people who rotted in jail for decades before DNA tests proved their innocence). So it is always to some degree a risk when you submit to a verdict by a group of twelve. Is that risk worth it if, especially if you have significant assets that enable you to settle? Maybe...maybe not.[/quote]

I never actually said he was innocent or guilty, I don't know him and therefor I can't pass judgment. But I would think a charge such as that would require defending (in my eyes)? I wouldn't care if I went bankrupt doing it, if I didn't do it I would make sure that my name was clear. But that is me and I wouldn't settle for anything less. I agree with the point you are making but I also think that if you are innocent then you need to fight to remain innocent.

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I find it strange that you can make an allegation of something so serious about someone and then be allowed to settle out of court. To me its like bribing a witness. But I do understand why Jacko would of settled. I think his lawyer would of said to him that he wasn't going to come out of it looking very good and he could make it all go away for a few million and it was easier to settle.

Personally I don't think he was a kiddie fiddler but he had some strange questionable behaviour.

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[quote=chunky;764009]I find it strange that you can make an allegation of something so serious about someone and then be allowed to settle out of court. To me its like bribing a witness. [/quote] When you settle out of court, the only person who is really "bribed" is the accuser. Why did the mother settle for several million instead of pushing for justice and seeing the man who allegedly molested her child behind bars so that he couldn't continue to harm other peoples' children? If we say that a truly innocent person should go to trial to prove his/her innocence at any cost, then why wouldn't we also expect a person convinced that their child was [I]molested[/I] to want to go to trial to prove at any cost that this crime was in fact committed?

I'm not saying I know what the truth was in this case, but another way that settling out of court [I]can[/I] look at times is extortion - from the side of the accuser. Why do you think people are so quick to sue in this country and businesses sometimes go to ridiculous lengths from a potential liability perspective to fend of frivolous lawuits ("WARNING: THIS COFFEE IS HOT")?

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[quote=Miroslav;764015]When you settle out of court, the only person who is really "bribed" is the accuser. Why did the mother settle for several million instead of pushing for justice and seeing the man who allegedly molested her child behind bars so that he couldn't continue to harm other peoples' children? If we say that a truly innocent person should go to trial to prove his/her innocence at any cost, then why wouldn't we also expect a person convinced that their child was [I]molested[/I] to want to go to trial to prove at any cost that this crime was in fact committed?

I'm not saying I know what the truth was in this case, but another way that settling out of court [I]can[/I] look at times is extortion - from the side of the accuser. Why do you think people are so quick to sue in this country and businesses sometimes go to ridiculous lengths from a potential liability perspective to fend of frivolous lawuits ("WARNING: THIS COFFEE IS HOT")?[/quote]

I totally agree with you and as usual you put it a lot better than I ever could. Personally I don't think you should be allowed to make an allegation then be slowed to settle.

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i shouldnt..but [IMG]http://www.b3tards.com/u/a609ede35986cfd048a1/jacko-toe-tag.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/ridgerama/3661790001_f90abe4df3.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote=Huggie Smiles;763845]he was a pedophile - he abused young boys who couldn't defend themselves -

are you actually advocating in favor of child sexual abuse?[/quote]

huggie when you can back your allegation up i will listen to you. yes he made wrong choices but can i ask you, are you a parent?

[quote=Life on Other Planets AKA Johns;763882]Well yes he was deeply troubled and i don't deny it. Yes he loved Children that does not mean he did anything with them. I love Dogs and i love my 2 labs i give them hugs and kisses all the time does not mean i have done anything with them. The wonderland thing is because he did not have the "NORMAL" childhood when he was young. Now that he has all this money he can do what he wants with it. In regards with his plastic surgery did he not have something done because he had a card accident or something? then it all fell apart. People get it done all the time. There is somethings i dont like about myself and if i did have the money yeah i would do the same. That does not make me any worse. Yes he did do some crazy things eg hang the baby out the window but people do crazy things all the time. It's only becuase it is Michael Jackson that people stand up and notice and Jealousy is such a evil thing.

I just feel really sad and sorry for him. I could tell by watching interviews with him he was a Kind loving person. RIP Michael you are in a better place now.

Anyway i am gonna go to bed. Good Night all and will be back tomorrow ;)[/quote]

^ one of the best and most sensble posts on here

Re: Bloody hell - Wacko Jacko is dead :(

[quote=Miroslav;764015]When you settle out of court, the only person who is really "bribed" is the accuser. Why did the mother settle for several million instead of pushing for justice and seeing the man who allegedly molested her child behind bars so that he couldn't continue to harm other peoples' children? If we say that a truly innocent person should go to trial to prove his/her innocence at any cost, then why wouldn't we also expect a person convinced that their child was [I]molested[/I] to want to go to trial to prove at any cost that this crime was in fact committed?

I'm not saying I know what the truth was in this case, but another way that settling out of court [I]can[/I] look at times is extortion - from the side of the accuser. Why do you think people are so quick to sue in this country and businesses sometimes go to ridiculous lengths from a potential liability perspective to fend of frivolous lawuits ("WARNING: THIS COFFEE IS HOT")?[/quote]

This is how I've always felt about the whole thing...... settling just doesn't sit very well for the accuser.

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[quote=Adzey;764052]huggie when you can back your allegation up i will listen to you. yes he made wrong choices but can i ask you, are you a parent?

[/quote]

I don't have the transcripts from the trial - but if you heard the testimony of the boy who he was originally accused of molesting - it was very clear. The prosecutors should have used that case as the one against MJ - not the one they actually prosecuted (altho the lawyers on the board may have a different view).

edit: here is sworn testimony from a kid who says jackson slept in the same bed with him, kissed him, jacked off in front of him

[url]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0625091jackson2.html[/url]

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First I must say I’m a bit disappointed in the responses from some of you, some day you may realize that by showing such disrespect for someone actually points out how much you respect yourselves.

It makes me sad he died, I grew up with his music and because of him I went to a dance school and continued for 15 years, he was a true inspiration to me. I was sad for him after his plastic surgeries went too far, and he knew he fucked up his face but it was too late to go back. I read a psychological study he participated in awhile back and the conclusion in short was that he never managed to develop a sense of an adulthood which is logical for the reasons of being the most popular 8 year old in the world (and back then being a star/celebrity wasn’t so massive as today), having an abusive father and having the amount of money that a child couldn’t possibly have a common sense about, so the only place he felt safe about was the stage and the only people he felt safe to be with were other kids, and since he never knew how to be a grownup, his choice of a company was obvious but socially incorrect. The issue of safety is like the base line for your subconscious functioning in every circumstance, especially in early ages.

A true legend and great talent. :(

[quote=dusk;764070]This is how I've always felt about the whole thing...... settling just doesn't sit very well for the accuser.[/quote]agreed

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^^^ [IMG]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/VHNIN/pl-pedo-bear.png[/IMG]

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RIP Michael... He had his life and he fulfilled his purpose..He could have done more but it was already enough for him to RIP.:(

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[quote=Katkich;764088]First I must say I’m a bit disappointed in the responses from some of you, some day you may realize that by showing such disrespect for someone actually points out how much you respect yourselves.

It makes me sad he died, I grew up with his music and because of him I went to a dance school and continued for 15 years, he was a true inspiration to me. I was sad for him after his plastic surgeries went too far, and he knew he fucked up his face but it was too late to go back. I read a psychological study he participated in awhile back and the conclusion in short was that he never managed to develop a sense of an adulthood which is logical for the reasons of being the most popular 8 year old in the world (and back then being a star/celebrity wasn’t so massive as today), having an abusive father and having the amount of money that a child couldn’t possibly have a common sense about, so the only place he felt safe about was the stage and the only people he felt safe to be with were other kids, and since he never knew how to be a grownup, his choice of a company was obvious but socially incorrect. The issue of safety is like the base line for your subconscious functioning in every circumstance, especially in early ages.

A true legend and great talent. :(

agreed[/quote] Well put. But unfortunately this is a one really good description of how a paedophile is formed. Not that I am saying he was, I don't know that.

Also unfortunately, regardless of how pure his thoughts were, his actions would not have a good effect on the boys involved. Adult men in our society do not sleep with little boys they are not related to. He definitely used his position of power to find playmates, no matter how innocent.

I do feel incredibly sorry for the life he led, as I said earlier sad and tormented. I just hope that his sad life does not have any ongoing effects on the boys involved.

I seem to be saying this a lot lately, but respect is earn' t ! He gets enormous respect from me for his music. Enormous sadness for his life.

Btw Johns, the money and the life go together. Even with all the money in the world I would not want his life.

As is always the case ,it is the people who are left behind who feel the pain . So my condolences go to all of you who feel that pain.

Re the settling thing, it's probably a case of both being at fault, he did things that were not acceptable, but what the hell were the parents thinking !!! Has to be a bit of follow the money there. !

Just noticed I got some neg rep for this thread. Unsigned as usual with neg stuff. :) Courage, people, courage !!!:lol: Oh, hang on , ,maybe the ",ass" was their signature :lol:

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[quote=DIDI;764119]Well put. But unfortunately this is a one really good description of how a paedophile is Just noticed I got some neg rep for this thread. Unsigned as usual with neg stuff. :) Courage, people, courage !!!:lol: Oh, hang on , ,maybe the ",ass" was their signature :lol:[/quote]

Me too:(

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[quote=Katkich;764088]First I must say I’m a bit disappointed in the responses from some of you, some day you may realize that by showing such disrespect for someone actually points out how much you respect yourselves. [/quote]

i've followed the case heavily, and i fully believe he did totally inappropriate things with children. that you expect me to be respectful to a person like that is...i'm sorry to say, but total nonsense.

as has already been posted, watch the testimony from the first kid. you just KNOW he is telling the truth.

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[QUOTE=nick007;764152]Me too:([/QUOTE] Was it signed the same way :lol:

Btw Don't remember whether I have said this, but some of the people here that I most respect have a row of red rep, so rep probably says more about the people who leave it than anything else. Good or bad :) Have to say I like my green though :lol:

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^^ WOW how many rep points do u have. I must fix that :p

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[quote=Life on Other Planets AKA Johns;764171]^^ WOW how many rep points do u have. I must fix that :p[/quote]

That's because DIDI's posts are always worth reading. She is right most of the people I respect the most on this board have negative rep.

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lol, i don think i have ever had green rep...if u memeber jibs always had a huge string of red rep and he was highly respected on here as we all know. face of ms.

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^^ Well there you go !! Proven :D

Thank you Chunky ! :)

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Damn it Chunky.. Don't say things like that :lol:.. How do i do this rep point thing? I have never given or taken points away from someone and i think i need to do it now :runningman:

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Hmm not sure i want to tell you :lol:

Click the each way arrows between the the big green/red block and that yellow shape. Think about it because it doesn't seem to let you leave rep more than once for any one person. There are people I would like to give rep [good ! :lol:] to again and I can't :(

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Hmm...I don't think I've given anyone neg rep points... everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how I feel about it.

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Just gave points to someone. To that person let me know if i did it properly by giving me more points :)

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damn it cant give the person anymore more points. Doh

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[quote=DIDI;764203]^^ Well there you go !! Proven :D

Thank you Chunky ! :)[/quote]

[URL]http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/member.php?u=1068[/URL]

further proof :)

i am proud to be in the red!!!

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^^^^ :bow down::bow down::bow down: The very best of company.:D

[QUOTE=Life on Other Planets AKA Johns;764237]Just gave points to someone. To that person let me know if i did it properly by giving me more points :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks Pal!! [NOT] I l knew I shouldn't have told you :lol: Oh well, at least you signed it !!:lol:

Err giving neg is not the way to get more points :lol:

[QUOTE]Hmm...I don't think I've given anyone neg rep points... everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how I feel about it.[/QUOTE]

I've given a couple, but for behaviour rather than opinion, and strangely enough I am probably less likely to do it now. Always signed though :lol:

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Just so everyone knows green rep is an epic fail . I've got some green points by being a total douche so yeah ... it doesnt make any sense lol.

lets fonikate :p

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[quote=DIDI;764355]^^^^ :bow down::bow down::bow down: The very best of company.:D

Thanks Pal!! [NOT] I l knew I shouldn't have told you :lol: Oh well, at least you signed it !!:lol:

Err giving neg is not the way to get more points :lol:

I've given a couple, but for behaviour rather than opinion, and strangely enough I am probably less likely to do it now. Always signed though :lol:[/quote]

Before i gave you negative point you were 2140 then i gave you neg points and you still are 2140 :what

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[QUOTE=Life on Other Planets AKA Johns;764373]Before i gave you negative point you were 2140 then i gave you neg points and you still are 2140 :what[/QUOTE]

she had a pact with the devil that is... Kamal :p

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[QUOTE=DIDI;764355]

I've given a couple, but for behaviour rather than opinion, and strangely enough I am probably less likely to do it now. Always signed though :lol:[/QUOTE]

Didi will give neg points to anyone that doesn't like trance , swoooshee music and uses a laptop to spin