Re: God

"Feelings" were created by women to distort man's view. Think about it. What good is feeling depressed? Just don't do it. There's no reason to be like that so it is a waste of time.

Re: God

[QUOTE=lilsensa;536291]I do believe in doing good and helping others...Expecting nothing, and just being the best human being that I can possibly be...That's what I believe in.[/QUOTE]Try harder. :p

Re: God

[QUOTE=Huggie Smiles;536318]Isnt that contradictory ??

• "on some level, we have some control over our own situation." and "Ever notice how some people seem to have nothing but good fortune, while others seem to constantly be fighting adversity? I don't think that's the result of chance."

If 'we' have control then it cant be "some unseen force or energy that guides things," doesnt it have to be one or the other?

just wondering - not trying to be an ass. (I dont need to try)[/QUOTE]

Probably seems like it the way I described it. I guess the implication is that people either consciously or subconsciously tap into this force, such that we sort of of steer our own ship -- that's why I said "guide" as opposed to "control."

Point is, you rarely see people who are constantly negative about their situation getting the windfalls, and vice-versa. Sure, bad things happen to good people all the time, but in the aggregate, I do think that our outlook and actions can have a way of drawing like things towards us. Maybe it's as simple as our perspective altering what we view as "good" or "bad." Who knows, certainly not me.

Re: God

[quote=Miguel;536296]^^^ you must expect something at the end of it , dont you ?[/quote]

Not really...Ask anyone I know, and they will tell you that I have never asked anything in return from them...Not that you would know anyone I know personally, but...

[quote=beanzncheez;536330]Try harder. :p[/quote]

No! :lol:

Re: God

life for sure is harder for some than others, but all in all, we are here to learn. although i think nowadays we rather be entertained

Re: God

[QUOTE=nick007;536177]but nothing can convince me otherwise that there is definately a spiritual realm/ parrallel universe where a war is being raged for each and every one of us.

[/QUOTE] then you seem to have a rather large amount of self-importance.

we're too busy speculating about nonsense to be focusing on developing ourselves into something of any worth.

myself included.

it's all about the number 42 though. for realz yo.

Re: God

^^Thanks for keeping it on the real yo.

Re: God

[QUOTE=beanzncheez;536329]What good is feeling depressed? Just don't do it. There's no reason to be like that so it is a waste of time.[/QUOTE]Not true. A good dose of depression & introspection can be a great eye-opener for someone who is unable to understand why they're generally not contented in life.

Of course, they could end up killing themselves when they don't like what their little epiphany of knowledge brings them, but hey-ho .. then Darwin claims another one.

Re: God

[QUOTE=lilsensa;536386]^^Thanks for keeping it on the real yo.[/QUOTE] my pleasure

[img]http://sillydad.com/silly/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/wigger-15513.jpg[/img]

[SIZE="1"](hmn, I need an avatar)[/SIZE]

Re: God

THE fundamental phenomenon that leads people to believe in gods (and all such superstitious nonsense) is the unwillingness to accept one's lack of understanding. Instead of simply ending one's own internal dialogue by saying "I don't understand" and calling it a day, people make judgments and draw conclusions from things they don't sufficiently understand. When a person or group has already made a judgment or established a false conclusion based on their imaginations, others are more likely to trust them (or at least entertain or consider their opinions) than retreat to a position of non-judgment or non-knowledge.

(a comet appears over the course of a few days) primitive guy 1: "Did you see that thing in the sky? I don't know what it is. Well, it's not doing anything, so I guess I'll mind my own business." primitive guy 2: "No- Harry says it's an omen. He says that the gods must be angry at us." primitive guy 1: (thinks) "I don't know if that's true, but what if Harry's right?"

We can also combine this with the natural weakness many people have to believe and follow authority figures, especially concerning such seemingly important subjects. Many people don't trust their internal common sense as much as they trust established authority figures. They sadly do not sufficiently question the justification of someone else claiming to have such understanding, especially from positions of power.

Amplifying the problem is the pressure that we put on authority figures to have the answers. If they were to, instead, admit to not knowing if god exists, or why there are storms, or why all the crops have died, or why there are diseases, etc, they would lose power to rivals that claimed to have knowledge. Thus it is a cycle that is very hard (and in some cases, nearly impossible, like in the Middle East) to break.

Re: God

[quote=kittymarmalade;536388]my pleasure

[IMG]http://sillydad.com/silly/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/wigger-15513.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE=1](hmn, I need an avatar)[/SIZE][/quote]

That's awesome. :lol::lol::lol:

Re: God

i believe that god was created in a sense to keep people of a lesser mind in order. i do not have statistics to back anything, but if i had to guess, i would say that there are far more people who do not believe in god not versus hundreds of years ago. i think as we progress our minds develop in a manner that we don't necessarily need to have something to believe in. at the end of the day, what it comes down to is that people are going to do whatever they want regardless.

i don't believe in god because my mind will not allow it, i'm not that weak.

Re: God

[quote=kittymarmalade;536164]The adoption of the concept of God is a major blocker to humans reaching their potential - scientifically, philosophically and behaviourally.

What a complete waste of life.[/quote]

If evolution and Darwinism is all there is, then I don't see why I personally would be worried about us reaching some "potential" or defining what a "waste of life" is.

"Potential" and "waste of life" is already efficiently defined by the distribution of our collective attributes and activities; that which is truly "wasteful" and stands in the way of the "potential" will simply die.

And there is nothing left for any of us to consciously achieve, block, or waste...except as it pertains to our own survival and perhaps whatever individual conceptualization of "pleasure" our own neural firings have led us to.

Within this evolutionary context, any other personal statement on your part about what is generally "wasteful" or what "potential" should look like is meaningless and irrelevant (except maybe to your own pleasure).

Re: God

[QUOTE=Miroslav;536632]I Within this evolutionary context, any other personal statement on your part about what is generally "wasteful" or what "potential" should look like is meaningless and irrelevant (except maybe to your own pleasure).[/QUOTE]

100% in agreement.

and as for this [QUOTE=Miroslav;536632]If evolution and Darwinism is all there is, then I don't see why I personally would be worried about us reaching some "potential" or defining what a "waste of life" is. [/QUOTE] and you see correctly, erm .. what I mean is, is that I agree wholeheartedly. You should worry about nothing.

The comments I made were just lamenting about humans not really being on the road to their full potential as a species [which is irrelevant to the individual] and the possibilities of what they could achieve if they collectively thought about it [again, all very irrelevant to me personally, but certainly worth thinking about when you think of what coud be achieved if people synchronised certain motivations collectively].[edit] Potential to achieve things much greater and far reaching as a collective species is there, but not necessarily a goal one should strive for to ensure personal satisfaction while alive, or for the survival of the species - because that is irrelvant to the individual.

I dont remember saying darwin/evolution is all there is. All there is is YOU [that is truly relevent], and one's consciousness [the most prescious thing on earth in my opinion]. And the good thing about being conscious is that you get to think about, and even experience, some truly beautiful and astonishing things [regardless of what the rest of your buddies are doing] - which to me is a key motivation in life.

"Waste of life" is a poor choice of words on my part. Waste of potential would fit better. And wasted potential is something I'm sure we all feel we have in bucket loads.

Re: God

I am not sure what I believe...I don't really believe that there is one "being" that created everything so to speak, but I would like to believe there is a place we go after we pass on...the thought of death being the end of everything sucks.

If there is only one "God" then how come Greek Mythology references several gods and as jibs mentioned, the Egyptians believed in living beings as God[b]S[/b]. Also the Mayans and other cultures sacrificing to the God[b]S[/b]. There are just to many discrepancies.

With all the variations/beliefs out there, it is hard to decide which is right. I think people should simply focus on the now and live life the best way they can and to the fullest potential.

Re: God

[QUOTE=DancingQueen;536660]With all the variations/beliefs out there, it is hard to decide which is right. I think people should simply focus on the now and live life the best way they can and to the fullest potential.[/QUOTE]

if you're struggling to decide which group of people is "right" then I'd say you're athiest along with most of us in here. don't try to figure out which one is right. if you don't believe any of them then don't try to fool yourself or others

Re: God

[quote=picklemonkey;536667]if you're struggling to decide which group of people is "right" then I'd say you're athiest along with most of us in here. don't try to figure out which one is right. if you don't believe any of them then don't try to fool yourself or others[/quote]

you mean Agnostic.

Agnostic is one who doesnt believe you can prove there is a god, but also does not deny it is possible a god may exist.

Atheist is a person who believes that there is no god or a nonexistence of a god. period.

Re: God

[QUOTE=ddr;536670]you mean Agnostic.

Agnostic is one who doesnt believe you can prove there is a god, but also does not deny it is possible a god may exist.

Atheist is a person who believes that there is no god or a nonexistence of a god. period.[/QUOTE]

just because you consider yourself agnostic doesn't mean the rest of us do ;)

she said she doesn't believe that there is one being who created everything. that's atheist.

Re: God

[quote=kittymarmalade;536656]100% in agreement.

and as for this

and you see correctly, erm .. what I mean is, is that I agree wholeheartedly. You should worry about nothing.

The comments I made were just lamenting about humans not really being on the road to their full potential as a species [which is irrelevant to the individual] and the possibilities of what they could achieve if they collectively thought about it [again, all very irrelevant to me personally, but certainly worth thinking about when you think of what coud be achieved if people synchronised certain motivations collectively].[edit] Potential to achieve things much greater and far reaching as a collective species is there, but not necessarily a goal one should strive for to ensure personal satisfaction while alive, or for the survival of the species - because that is irrelvant to the individual.

I dont remember saying darwin/evolution is all there is. All there is is YOU [that is truly relevent], and one's consciousness [the most prescious thing on earth in my opinion]. And the good thing about being conscious is that you get to think about, and even experience, some truly beautiful and astonishing things [regardless of what the rest of your buddies are doing] - which to me is a key motivation in life.

"Waste of life" is a poor choice of words on my part. Waste of potential would fit better. And wasted potential is something I'm sure we all feel we have in bucket loads.[/quote]

Fair enough...sry if I was being a bit snippy; it tends to happen when I wake up on 3 hours of sleep.

btw I don't actually subscribe to a view of life strictly based on what I wrote; I'm not an atheist (or a "religious person"). My main premise has always been that even the atheist's views amount to about as much belief/faith as the Christian's; a world strictly defined by science installs a lot of assumptions about some very important questions. And most people I personally know who call themselves atheists continuously use a lot of expressions that demonstrate alegiance to free will, love, beauty, and other emotionally-based value judgements about the nature of the world around them...all of which, in my opinion, are frankly inconsistent with the actual conclusions of atheism.

I love this topic, but I've already completely beaten this to death in like 5 other threads before...so I will do my best to shut up about it now :)

Re: God

[quote=picklemonkey;536682]just because you consider yourself agnostic doesn't mean the rest of us do ;)

she said she doesn't believe that there is one being who created everything. that's atheist.[/quote]

she didnt say 100% that she does.. she said she is "not sure what (she) believes"

but yea, different interpretation... i was just pointing out that agnostic is a 'not sure' type of thing while atheist is a 'for sure' i do not believe... :what

Re: God

yeah. different interpretation. only thing I'm sure of is I'm a "for sure"

Re: God

I'll be the first in this thread to say that I believe in one God and Jesus. For me, it started with going to church and wanting to know more than what my church was teaching. From reading the Bible, I was amazed at the wisdom and teachings of the apostles and Jesus.

I do admit that I'm not what the world would view as a perfect Christian, but I feel that I'm trying my best and have improved my life over the years. However, I don't worry about other people's opinions too much as I'm more concerned about my relationship with God or Jesus.

I think the important thing for people to have faith is to start with what the Bible says and not focus on all the negatives about religion.

Re: God

[QUOTE=kittymarmalade;536387]Not true. A good dose of depression & introspection can be a great eye-opener for someone who is unable to understand why they're generally not contented in life.[/QUOTE]Why would you need an eye opener if everything is all right?

Re: God

Greg Graffin is an Atheist and the rest of Bad Religion are Agnostic.

Re: God

[QUOTE=Miroslav;536686]Fair enough...sry if I was being a bit snippy; it tends to happen when I wake up on 3 hours of sleep.

btw I don't actually subscribe to a view of life strictly based on what I wrote; I'm not an atheist (or a "religious person"). My main premise has always been that even the atheist's views amount to about as much belief/faith as the Christian's; a world strictly defined by science installs a lot of assumptions about some very important questions. And most people I personally know who call themselves atheists continuously use a lot of expressions that demonstrate alegiance to free will, love, beauty, and other emotionally-based value judgements about the nature of the world around them...all of which, in my opinion, are frankly inconsistent with the actual conclusions of atheism.

I love this topic, but I've already completely beaten this to death in like 5 other threads before...so I will do my best to shut up about it now :)[/QUOTE]

Hey Miroslav,

why do you think emotionally based judgment is contradictory to an atheist world-view? Not believing in a god may be the result of a rationale, but that doesn't mean every single thing in life has to be rationalized, right? Even then, what you feel and experience is still so much more real than an entity that no-one has ever seen/heard before or even felt. Maybe god is just euphoria for example, just another motion. I don't know.

Isn't comparing emotion to belief a bit like placing emotion in the realm of things beyond ourselver? I may not fully understand my emotions, but as I experience them they're very real to me...;-)

Re: God

do not want

Re: God

[QUOTE=beanzncheez;536728]Why would you need an eye opener if everything is all right?[/QUOTE] why would you think everything is alright with a person if they had depression?

Re: God

[QUOTE=Miroslav;536686]. My main premise has always been that even the atheist's views amount to about as much belief/faith as the Christian's; a world strictly defined by science installs a lot of assumptions about some very important questions. [/QUOTE] hmn. I've held that view at some point too. But now I see it more as science not making assumptions. It understands it doesn't know the answer, and acknowledges this, and subscribes to keep looking and looking. Whereas the belief in god makes one assumption and it ends there. People like Dawkns [who I'm not particularly fond of but enjoy reading] also point out that, as neither camp can actually KNOW, one would logically start looking at the most [i]likely[/i] options to investigate, and if you place those options side by side, the notion of a god seems pretty ludicrous [without employing faith, that is]. Any option that preferes subscribers not to ask questions about its integrity is hard for me to take seriously.

[QUOTE=Miroslav;536686] And most people I personally know who call themselves atheists continuously use a lot of expressions that demonstrate alegiance to free will, love, beauty, and other emotionally-based value judgements about the nature of the world around them...all of which, in my opinion, are frankly inconsistent with the actual conclusions of atheism. [/QUOTE]

hmn. I guess I'd be one of the people you're talking about here. And now you've lost me, because if you're saying that emotionally based values aren't possible without somehow being linked to the notion of some sort of religious spirituality, then I think you're maybe confused about things. If it's not that you meant, then I'm not sure what you're trying to imply.

Re: God

[QUOTE=kittymarmalade;536746]why would you think everything is alright with a person if they had depression?[/QUOTE]Because being depressed is all in your head. If you don't want to be depressed, then don't think it.

Re: God

[quote=DancingQueen;536660]I am not sure what I believe...I don't really believe that there is one "being" that created everything so to speak, but I would like to believe there is a place we go after we pass on...the thought of death being the end of everything sucks.[/quote]

Might I suggest believe in yourself (if you don't already, of course). I think that's the first and most important belief one should have. Then the belief in the person next to and around you.

As for going somewhere better after we die. The fact is we don't know. We would all like to believe that we do go someplace better because who wants to believe that when we die, that's it? The story ends. Period. [LEFT]Religion's angle is that we go to paradise where we live in bliss for all eternity. If we [I]believe[/I] in their god and [I]follow[/I] his rules. Otherwise we burn in fiery hell for all eternity. [/LEFT] That's a no-brainer isn't it? On the flip side (sort of), killing infidels, just because they don't believe what you believe is the surest way of gaining entry to paradise into the waiting arms of countless virgins. A pretty good deal if I do say so myself.

As for God. Music is my God and Martin Garcia his son, spreading his gospels of progressive house. I'm sometimes unfaithful and cheat a little with progressive trance or other forms of electronic music. Martin doesn't needs to know that though. It's a crude example but I'm sure there's a few of you will think I'm nuts. Will you still believe something is wrong with me if several hundred million people believe the same thing though? Right!

A child can have an imaginary friend but if an adult does, something maybe wrong upstairs. If that's the case then the earth is just one huge insane asylum with some sane people trapped with them.

Religion has been around for thousands of years and it's the same as it has been for the same amount of time. Everything else in the world has been evolving except that. Why? Just because it can't. It doesn't have anywhere to go. There's no facts to begin with to base their beliefs on. No new evidence to justify believing in it still. Only a book that was written by [B]MEN[/B] in power. Others, supposedly by god himself wrote. Preaching the same thing over and over and over and er...over. It'll eventually get old or stay stuck in the past as it is with the Muslims religion.

As for my nick, it has nothing to do with my belief or lack there of and all to do with the group.

Re: God

you have to create or better said, get to know your God, that's all! all this cristian shit is just nonsense, it's a way of manipulating people. God is nature and we are part of nature and God! God is kind of perfect man in all angles, because we all relate him to our view of life, what is very egoistic, so that's why we also need a God that will lead us and be our idol! Back in a days there were no Michael Jackson lol, Madonna....so they created a ideal idol, the God. And why is church the most wealthy and rich community, because 80% of people need to be lead, because they are to stupid to lead their own life.

Peace!

Re: God

[quote=Yao;536743]Hey Miroslav,

why do you think emotionally based judgment is contradictory to an atheist world-view? Not believing in a god may be the result of a rationale, but that doesn't mean every single thing in life has to be rationalized, right? Even then, what you feel and experience is still so much more real than an entity that no-one has ever seen/heard before or even felt. Maybe god is just euphoria for example, just another motion. I don't know.

Isn't comparing emotion to belief a bit like placing emotion in the realm of things beyond ourselver? I may not fully understand my emotions, but as I experience them they're very real to me...;-)[/quote]

[quote=kittymarmalade;536748]hmn. I guess I'd be one of the people you're talking about here. And now you've lost me, because if you're saying that emotionally based values aren't possible without somehow being linked to the notion of some sort of religious spirituality, then I think you're maybe confused about things. If it's not that you meant, then I'm not sure what you're trying to imply.[/quote]

Ok this will be lengthy, I apologize in advance... I don't mean to deny the experiences that each of you are having every day, I just mean that things get extremely tricky when you examine free will and emotion within the context of atheism. What I say will basically be through the perspective of free will, because the same issues and conclusions therein are inextricably linked with emotions and thoughts.

(anyone who had to suffer through those old threads is gonna wanna beat me now :lol: )

What is the basis for your free will, for your emotions, for your thoughts in a science-driven world? Well...science; that is all that you have. I will fully admit that I'm not an expert scientist, but everything I have learned of science so far that would lend itself to explanations of free will and emotions ends up boiling down to cause and effect or probability/randomness (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, Brownian motion, etc.)

This leads to an interesting set of questions: Where does this intricate web of cause and effect, randomness, probability end and [B][I]your [/I][/B]autonomy/freedom begin? Or does it? If it doesn't, then what does that mean in terms of your experience of "free will" and everything that comes with it?

If you go down this rabbit hole, you quickly get entangled in an impenetrable paradox. Mathematically speaking, you're grappling with the concept of infinity here. You [I]feel[/I] that you have free will and some control over your destiny; clearly, you're helpless to [I]stop[/I] experiencing the world through some sort of an autonomous perspective (unless perhaps you go insane). But here's the thing: you can't step outside of yourself and your own experience to objectively look at the picture! Within this system, [I]everything[/I] - including your [I]perceptions[/I] of free will and and the entire debate - is all part of the web, and you can't escape it. There was a movie that touched upon this: The Matrix.

So...where does this leave us? You either have free will or you don't - and even the feelings that you do are all part of a grand illusion of free will. The fun part is that there is [I]no way[/I] of determining which one is in fact correct. And guess what: The best case here requires you to take free will [B][I]on faith![/I][/B]...unless #2 is true, in which case even your experience of faith is an illusion. You could also try to deny that you have free will and say that science explains it all...but good luck with the hopeless paradox inherent in [I]that[/I] statement.

So now tell me: Given that you can't even really even rationally establish your own autonomy in this world, what do your emotional experiences and value-based attributions thereof to the world around you actually [I]mean[/I]? And how can you invoke them in any argument about religion, given that the best case for you as an atheist still fully rests on [I][U]faith[/U]?[/I]

Re: God

An interesting interview about this subject by the author of "What’s So Great About Christianity," Dinesh D’Souza.

[url]http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Dinesh_D%92Souza/2007/10/16/41343.html[/url]

Re: God

The great thing about christianity is the closet sex freaks. Those women will do anything. In public, even.

Re: God

[quote=Miroslav;536887]Ok this will be lengthy, I apologize in advance... I don't mean to deny the experiences that each of you are having every day, I just mean that things get extremely tricky when you examine free will and emotion within the context of atheism. What I say will basically be through the perspective of free will, because the same issues and conclusions therein are inextricably linked with emotions and thoughts.

(anyone who had to suffer through those old threads is gonna wanna beat me now :lol: )

What is the basis for your free will, for your emotions, for your thoughts in a science-driven world? Well...science; that is all that you have. I will fully admit that I'm not an expert scientist, but everything I have learned of science so far that would lend itself to explanations of free will and emotions ends up boiling down to cause and effect or probability/randomness (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, Brownian motion, etc.)

This leads to an interesting set of questions:

Where does this intricate web of cause and effect, randomness, probability end and [B][I]your [/I][/B]autonomy/freedom begin? Or does it? If it doesn't, then what does that mean in terms of your experience of "free will" and everything that comes with it?

If you go down this rabbit hole, you quickly get entangled in an impenetrable paradox. Mathematically speaking, you're grappling with the concept of infinity here. You [I]feel[/I] that you have free will and some control over your destiny; clearly, you're helpless to [I]stop[/I] experiencing the world through some sort of an autonomous perspective (unless perhaps you go insane). But here's the thing: you can't step outside of yourself and your own experience to objectively look at the picture! Within this system, [I]everything[/I] - including your [I]perceptions[/I] of free will and and the entire debate - is all part of the web, and you can't escape it. There was a movie that touched upon this: The Matrix.

So...where does this leave us? Do you have free will? Two options:

1. Yes, you do have it.
2. No, you don't and even the feeling that you do - even the questioning thoughts I'm expressing now - are all part of a [I]grand illusion[/I] of your free will.

You have [I]no way[/I] of determining which one is in fact correct. So guess what? The best case is that you get to take your free will [B][I]on faith![/I][/B]...unless #2 is true, in which case even your experience of faith is an illusion. You could also try to deny that you have free will and say that science explains it all...but good luck with the hopeless paradox inherent in [I]that[/I] statement.

So now tell me: Given that you can't even really even rationally establish your own autonomy in this world, what do your emotional experiences and value-based attributions thereof to the world around you actually [I]mean[/I]? And how can you invoke them in any argument about religion, given that the best case for you as an atheist still fully rests on [I][U]faith[/U]?[/I][/quote]

Unfortunately, if only skeptical conclusions lie before us, we have no choice but to admit [I]some[/I] faith is involved with our judgments. However, this definition of faith is not something we elect to have- this faith is forced on us by the rejection of all justifications within our own frame of reference. Any intelligent physical beings may eventually discover this about themselves. Therefore, it is a more [I]scientific[/I] type of faith. It's a question with no answer, so we continue without addressing it instead of postulating something additional to account for it.

This differs completely from the "faith" that someone has in imaginary beings (or forces). This sort of faith is a choice one makes based on some experiences in their life. It will change for every person, and there is no consistency between such faiths.

Re: God

reading d'souza is like reading coulter. i'll pass, thanks.

Beenzncheez: i think you're mistaken...perhaps you meant catholic girls? christian girls are rather prudish and awkward. these are generalizations however....

Re: God

ok, just found out that d'souza and coulter dated.

Re: God

[quote=sammwalk;536899]Unfortunately, if only skeptical conclusions lie before us, we have no choice but to admit [I]some[/I] faith is involved with our judgments. However, this definition of faith is not something we elect to have- this faith is forced on us by the rejection of all justifications within our own frame of reference. Any intelligent physical beings may eventually discover this about themselves. Therefore, it is a more [I]scientific[/I] type of faith. It's a question with no answer, so we continue without addressing it instead of postulating something additional to account for it.

This differs completely from the "faith" that someone has in imaginary beings (or forces). This sort of faith is a choice one makes based on some experiences in their life. It will change for every person, and there is no consistency between such faiths.[/quote]

Well said! I agree with you. To be clear, my comments were never intended as a defense of organized religion. I guess to me it comes down to this: I can't envision that science ever would or could provide answers to this topic. And so if science can't do it, then is the notion of some sort of an overarching force that originated the universe and everything in it such a ridiculous concept?

Re: God

[quote=88Mariner;537164]reading d'souza is like reading coulter. i'll pass, thanks.

Beenzncheez: i think you're mistaken...perhaps you meant catholic girls? christian girls are rather prudish and awkward. these are generalizations however....[/quote]

as far as i know catholic girls get drunk and put out. :lol: at least that has been my experience.

Re: God

God is One, no father no son, only one creator could create this universe, if ther were more than one, it would have been over long ago, Jesus is just a prophet sent by his/our creator, to tell us about him and deliver the message so we'll know, the test is to believe or not to belive and bear the consequences...