Re: Libya

I see his point about going into Libya and not considering what's happening in Bahrain and Yemen but at the same time, he also goes on to talk about Ghadaffi involvement in international terrorism, which should be a serious point of consideration imo. Didn't one of the ex Judges from Libya say that Ghadaffi laid out the plans for the Lockerbie bombing?

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[QUOTE=Kamal;938841]it's clearly evident you're struggling....period. with responses like "god back to sleep" and "knower of all things", you clearly have no clue what to say, but are butting in this thread just to sound important.[/QUOTE]

Sounds familiar doesn't it.

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[QUOTE=vinnie97;938796] This action should have been voted on by Congress, otherwise it is most certainly an illegal war.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, but I suppose if push came to shove, it would've been passed through congress anyways.

Re: Libya

Moussa the Arab League chief should be very worried.

[URL]http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/arab-league-chief-condemns-killing-of-libya-civilians-by-western-powers-1.350608[/URL]

Re: Libya

[QUOTE=dig72;938961]Agreed, but I suppose if push came to shove, it would've been passed through congress anyways.[/QUOTE]

Lolwut? The UN isn't beholden to the US Congress. At least from what my singular, one sided, popular press driven, asleep American warmonger sense tells me.

Re: Libya

The main problem of people on this forum is just plain old lack of knowledge...for example...Turkey has killed way many more people than Gaddafi in the last 10 years yet it is a member of NATO, a close ally of the US and gets its weapons...such as attack helicopters to kill Kurdish civilians...yet you watched one episode of CNN's special and think of yourselves as experts in what's going on...and believe that you have the objective view. I am truly speechless reading some of the posts here...like a bunch of children. most of you have not sought out political or international news on your own accord for the duration of your life...you get spoon fed information from your box while you are eating your breakfast and assume you have a balanced view of the world...i am once again sick of your crap...need some rest from the politics forum.

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here here.. you tell them Shpira.. :)

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[QUOTE=Shpira;939057]The main problem of people on this forum is just plain old lack of knowledge...for example...Turkey has killed way many more people than Gaddafi in the last 10 years yet it is a member of NATO, a close ally of the US and gets its weapons...such as attack helicopters to kill Kurdish civilians...yet you watched one episode of CNN's special and think of yourselves as experts in what's going on...and believe that you have the objective view. I am truly speechless reading some of the posts here...like a bunch of children. most of you have not sought out political or international news on your own accord for the duration of your life...you get spoon fed information from your box while you are eating your breakfast and assume you have a balanced view of the world...i am once again sick of your crap...need some rest from the politics forum.[/QUOTE]

Since there are worse leaders in the world out there than who currently is in power in Libya, Libya should get a free pass then?

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so what you're saying is that because there are other countries doing far worse in terms of human rights violations, let the chips fall where they may and let the whole world continue to ignore the single-show documentaries on cnn?

edit: res0 beat me to it

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no... that's not the point. the point is...as always in the infamous words of George Carlin..."its all bullshit and its bad for you"... i.e. you got your little panties in a twist over an unknown number of "dead civilians" when we can name the country that committed the largest genocide since WW2 and they are your nations close allies and you sell them arms... that's it...yet you didn't hear that on CNN, FOX or where ever you nice young man get your news these days...so its not happening. We have a new baddie and his name is Gaddafi so all jump on the band wagon...wooooohaaaaa...

...the French and the Italians never get tired of raping North Africa and the US never gets tired of raping the world...they have consensus now...where will it all end...and how much will it take for people to see that they are chasing their tail??

I don't I have spend the day reading peoples comments on varies news outlet sights and one thing that strikes fear into my heart is how many uninformed, arrogant, nationalistic, racist, chauvinist assholes there are world wide...

At what point does a normal human become an inconsiderate cunt, what is it that changes and makes us hate one another and do these fucking terrible things...this war is once again plastered on the from pages of our news papers as a humanitarian intervention, while tabloids frame it as entertainment - a video game almost "the western coalition 1 : mad dictator 0" ...what are people on??? How can you have such short memories...every single fucking conflict since the world war is always framed as a humanitarian intervention and ends up being a cluster fuck with thousands of uncounted victims and then the west pulls out and leaves everyone in that country hating everything we stand for...while 5 people make a bundle...

How long does this shit have to go on till people pull their head out of the sand...and how long will I care for these things and allow them to piss me off so fucking much!

i feel truly worn out by life...by people...I cannot believe we are such a bunch of cunts. Its coming to a time where I will actually begin to think that animals are worth more than us...i mean dogs, cats and "chickens would never do this to one another...because they are decent people." (George Carlin)

Re: Libya

shit Shpira has found Religion

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[IMG]http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd453/marlene2579/fc85535_oh_he_mad.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://www.network54.com/Realm/gunnygrealm/madashell.jpg[/IMG]

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Oh, he right

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George Carlin is awesome.

He's wrong though, animals aren't better than us, we ARE animals. The difference is knowing we're animals and expecting people in power to take advantage of opportunity, or blindly thinking we're not animals and we're actually going forward as a society towards a better world. I'm a fatalist in world view, i believe there is no hope for humanity (and this could be an entirely different thread if you want to get into evolution of species and animal instincts). So taking this one little slice moment of time, I've got no problem taking out a terrorist dictator who is oppressing his people and btw who also downed a plane full of Americans many years ago, regardless of how many other atrocities are being committed every day by other people in power taking advantage of their own situation all over the world, as sad as that is. Disgusting, yes, but the way this one is being written out so far, I don't have any beef with it and I also don't have much control over it. World peace is a pipe dream, a figment of everyone's imagination, humanity can never achieve that, we're not wired that way. So in that sense, I think you take each issue as it comes, knowing you can't/won't solve every world problem.

Re: Libya

[QUOTE=Shpira;939106]I don't I have spend the day reading peoples comments on varies news outlet sights and one thing that strikes fear into my heart is how many uninformed, arrogant, nationalistic, racist, chauvinist assholes there are world wide.[/QUOTE]

Oh man. This is the worst. From comments left in my local online paper, to global outlets.

A person is smart, "people" are stupid.

Re: Libya

^As long as you didn't speak out against taking out Saddam whose body count far outweighs that of Qadaffi, then we're good. ;-) Man is a species but his sense of self and his (many times lacking) ability to forecast the consequences of his actions (along with the concept of conscience) put him at a level above the rest of the species. That doesn't mean he won't act selfishly or in his own best interest at the expense of others. All one has to do is look at a child whose will has yet to be broken.

Re: Libya

people are stupid ONLY because the media lies to them..

Democracy's Strength—An Informed Public

Re: Libya

[QUOTE=runningman;939140]people are stupid ONLY because the media lies to them.. [/QUOTE]

Srsly? Check out the Truther thread which is great evidence against this statement. :lol:

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I did check it out.. The media has lied to you my friend as they always do.

Iraq - Afghanistan- Libya - the same

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shpira, I hear what you're saying, but by that account, history should become the sole determinant factor of all future actions? and humans should just not be given a chance to correct themselves based on mistakes of the past?

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correct themselves??? Are you fucking serious? The war in Iraq is still going on and you are talking about correcting ourselves! We should tidy up our home before we go around trying to fix the world. put all the fuckers in jail that deserve it and publicly shame all the war criminals we have in our own countries before we go on yet another moral crusade.

[QUOTE]He's wrong though, animals aren't better than us, we ARE animals. The difference is knowing we're animals and expecting people in power to take advantage of opportunity, or blindly thinking we're not animals and we're actually going forward as a society towards a better world. I'm a fatalist in world view, i believe there is no hope for humanity (and this could be an entirely different thread if you want to get into evolution of species and animal instincts). So taking this one little slice moment of time, I've got no problem taking out a terrorist dictator who is oppressing his people and btw who also downed a plane full of Americans many years ago, regardless of how many other atrocities are being committed every day by other people in power taking advantage of their own situation all over the world, as sad as that is. Disgusting, yes, but the way this one is being written out so far, I don't have any beef with it and I also don't have much control over it. World peace is a pipe dream, a figment of everyone's imagination, humanity can never achieve that, we're not wired that way. So in that sense, I think you take each issue as it comes, knowing you can't/won't solve every world problem.[/QUOTE]

as for the above post by Jenks...its a valid point of view but this whole argument is a cop out in my opinion. We need to take responsibility for the world we live in. WE created this and WE can change it...saying its our nature is accepting things as they are and not trying to change anything...it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

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There we go with the US/Bush agenda and history lessons again. Yep, let's make Bush everything that is wrong with the US today and let's just all sit back and become silent spectators to atrocities of the future. It's like that retarded pro-Bush arguments you hear people make "the country hasn't been any safer since President Bush, we haven't had another attack like 9/11."

Well put me in a dress and call me Susy.

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No...it has nothing to do with Bush and you are the one who mentioned history. It has to do with the fact that you have the same bunch of people in control and they were not punished for doing what they did before and now they are going to do it again. That is the definition of insanity you know...doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result. You can believe that something has changed if you will...but change is a sloooowwwww process. in order to correct a mistake you must first admit to making one...I have not heard anyone in the government say anything near the truth about either of the two wars the country you live in is involved in now. The same will manifest itself as the truth about Libya in a year or two I am sure. Again, a lot of you seem to disregard what people say just because they happen to be critical of the country you live in...why??? What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you not supposed to improve the quality of your democracy with criticism and critical thinking? Or have you given up on that and accepted that whatever your country does must be correct?? I don't understand you at all.

Re: Libya

If you read back in this post, you will have probably noticed a collection of things I don't give too much of a shit for, including politics in general and what the US stands to gain from it. So no I am not disregarding your comments about the US just because I live here now, I just want Ghadaffi out of power. Let's just agree to not see eye to eye on this one.

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Oh i think he shouldn't be in power...but not this way. Ok...agree to disagree...

Re: Libya

Yup, he's out of power and then effing what? Iraq and Afghan quagmire extended into another country.

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well let's swallow this new pill we've unpacked first aye?

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[QUOTE=Shpira;939349]No...it has nothing to do with Bush and you are the one who mentioned history. It has to do with the fact that you have the same bunch of people in control and they were not punished for doing what they did before and now they are going to do it again. That is the definition of insanity you know...doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result. You can believe that something has changed if you will...but change is a sloooowwwww process. in order to correct a mistake you must first admit to making one...I have not heard anyone in the government say anything near the truth about either of the two wars the country you live in is involved in now. The same will manifest itself as the truth about Libya in a year or two I am sure. Again, a lot of you seem to disregard what people say just because they happen to be critical of the country you live in...why??? What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you not supposed to improve the quality of your democracy with criticism and critical thinking? Or have you given up on that and accepted that whatever your country does must be correct?? I don't understand you at all.[/QUOTE] Thank you for this and your previous posts . Like a breath of fresh air.

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[QUOTE=Kamal;939357]well let's swallow this new pill we've unpacked first aye?[/QUOTE] You go right ahead...up next: Iran, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria....

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just getting Ghaddafi out and then worrying about things later is exactly what went wrong in Iraq. Repeating the same mistakes is insane.

I agree Vinnie this isn't going to stop with just Libya. Just like it wasn't going to stop with just Iraq.

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Whats really nuts is us going over to Japan and helping. I mean when will it end? We go in there and start giving them aid, but when does the aid stop? I mean there could be no end in sight. This is setting a bad precedent.

Re: Libya

Well Libya got their first scalp. They shot down a US fighter.

Of course according to the US media it wasn't shot down. It crash landed. Right Reso?

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[QUOTE=runningman;939474]Well Libya got their first scalp. They shot down a US fighter.

Of course according to the US media it wasn't shot down. It crash landed. Right Reso?[/QUOTE]

Don't matter to me either way, the crew ejected safely it says. Thats all that really matters right RM? I'm sorry you're disappointed the UN death counter didn't go up on this one.

Re: Libya

ya i'm glad they are alive.. the US taxpayer bill just went up $25 million... rough start

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[QUOTE=runningman;939479]ya i'm glad they are alive.. the US taxpayer bill just went up $25 million... rough start[/QUOTE]

Yup. I would start a debt counter for the Canadian tally also if I were you.

Re: Libya

[QUOTE=Kamal;939345]There we go with the US/Bush agenda and history lessons again. Yep, let's make Bush everything that is wrong with the US today and let's just all sit back and become silent spectators to atrocities of the future. It's like that retarded pro-Bush arguments you hear people make "the country hasn't been any safer since President Bush, we haven't had another attack like 9/11." [/QUOTE]

Since 9/11 all these little incidents don’t really look like some criminal master mind intent on causing destruction. If there is some network of terrorists they are a best incompetent and maybe don’t give a fuck.

Now the terrorists have moved from Martyrdom to parcel bombing we should expect more incidents and on a bigger scale. Why send 4 ink cartridges when you can send 400? Why post them from the other side of the world when you can post them internally. Why keep targeting planes when you can target trains, buses or shopping malls a lot easier? You only have to look at the terror campaign that the IRA used in the 70’s through to the 90’s. We had car bombs used on shopping malls, mortar attacks on airports, assassinations of police, the armed forces, prison guards and politicians. But these days all we see are bungled bombing attempts.

9/11 was probably the biggest act of terrorism ever, but how did the terrorist go from something that must have taken a lot of planning to the pants bomber. The reason we have not had another 9/11 is nothing to do with the US/UK governments doing such a great job. It's because the threat is nowhere near as big as the government would have you belive.

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I won't have to a Canadian plane would never get shot down

Because we don't have any planes.. :)

Re: Libya

humm

Re: Libya

[QUOTE=chunky;939490]Since 9/11 all these little incidents don’t really look like some criminal master mind intent on causing destruction. If there is some network of terrorists they are a best incompetent and maybe don’t give a fuck.

Now the terrorists have moved from Martyrdom to parcel bombing we should expect more incidents and on a bigger scale. Why send 4 ink cartridges when you can send 400? Why post them from the other side of the world when you can post them internally. Why keep targeting planes when you can target trains, buses or shopping malls a lot easier? You only have to look at the terror campaign that the IRA used in the 70’s through to the 90’s. We had car bombs used on shopping malls, mortar attacks on airports, assassinations of police, the armed forces, prison guards and politicians. But these days all we see are bungled bombing attempts.

9/11 was probably the biggest act of terrorism ever, but how did the terrorist go from something that must have taken a lot of planning to the pants bomber. The reason we have not had another 9/11 is nothing to do with the US/UK governments doing such a great job. It's because the threat is nowhere near as big as the government would have you belive.[/QUOTE]

I think this is true, big scary Al Quaeda is not like a big corporation working together all over the world to do its dire deeds. It is more like a mixup of like minded individuals doing their own thing in small groups which may/may not ever talk or come in contact with each other.

To put every terrorist act underneath the blanket Al Quaeda network I think is just the media being the media and trying to make things much more scary and doomsday than they appear.

It is like the media keeps referring to Anonymous as a huge group of people working all together to hack the Internets. It just ain't so.