I was listening to a debate on the news this morning about what the role of the US ought to be in assisting the victims of the earthquake and tsunami in SE Asia, and thought I'd throw it out there for comment.

To get things started, I'll throw out a couple of the positions that were taken (not my own):

Some folks were of the opinion that the US had become the world's blank checkbook -- that we have enough problems here at home to be worrying about the rest of the world. the general gist of it was, "why should we pay to rebuild another country before we rebuild our own?"

Some folks thought atht the $35 mill we've pledged was too little. Having already spent $800 billion on the war, $35M was basically chump change.

Others viewed it as an opportunity for the US to get back in the good graces of the world by helping out in the relief effort -- a good PR move, if you will.

Thoughts?

you give what you can, and you take what your given..we should always help out people who need it no matter where they are from.

why isn't places like saudi arabia and Iran giving money to these people?? I hate how it always falls on the USA hands.. Does anybody know if canada is helping?

i think the saudi sent like $10 mil, canada sent some money but they haven't sent any people yet

<------- Not!!

that's weird usually we are the first ones in there.. new PM i'm not to sure about yet..

you hate winter but you live in canada?? :?

ya i was born here.. and still here.. probably will stay here.. doesn't mean i can't complain about it.. :lol:

Re: US Role in Tsunami Relief Efforts

things like this upset me. especially all those AIDS protesters during the republican convention. too stupid to realize that USA gives well above what every other country is giving, not to mention bill gates dropped a billion out his own pocket. go protest to a country that doesnt give shit.

Re: US Role in Tsunami Relief Efforts

[quote] I was listening to a debate on the news this morning about what the role of the US ought to be in assisting the victims of the earthquake and tsunami in SE Asia, and thought I'd throw it out there for comment.

To get things started, I'll throw out a couple of the positions that were taken (not my own):

Some folks were of the opinion that the US had become the world's blank checkbook -- that we have enough problems here at home to be worrying about the rest of the world. the general gist of it was, "why should we pay to rebuild another country before we rebuild our own?"

Some folks thought atht the $35 mill we've pledged was too little. Having already spent $800 billion on the war, $35M was basically chump change.

Others viewed it as an opportunity for the US to get back in the good graces of the world by helping out in the relief effort -- a good PR move, if you will.

Thoughts? [/quote]

First off, we have not spent anywhere close to 800 billion on the war so far. Where did you get that figure? Regarding the 35M, I think it's fair so far. At first, all donations were small to begin with, being that the damage was extremely underestimated. Once the leaders of the world saw that it was worse than they imagined, the donations obviously grew. This is how much the world is donating btw:

US: $35M, plus 12 US Navy vessels and 5,000 sailors Japan: $30M Australia: $26M, plus five military transports and 50 specialists Austria: $1.36M Belgium: One military transport to deliver UNICEF aid Britain: 370K (pounds), $100K, plus $481K of materials to Sri Lanka Denmark: 45 tonnes of supplies, $1.82M EU: "Ready to release" 30M Euro, 3M Euro already released. France: 100K Euros ($140,000) Finland: 500K Euro. Germany: 2M Euro. Greece: 17 doctors and staff. Italy: 2 helicopters and crew. Netherlands: 2M Euros. Poland: $336K Spain: 1M Euros pledged, 19 volunteers Sweden: Two communications specialists and some tents and radios.

And no toasty, no matter what we do, so long as Bush is in the white house, he could bring every single country out of poverty, and they would still despise him.

Re: US Role in Tsunami Relief Efforts

[quote=cosmo] First off, we have not spent anywhere close to 800 billion on the war so far. Where did you get that figure? [/quote]

Not sure. I was just repeating the position someone was taking. I'm home from work ill today, so I gotta blame that on the Nyquil brain fog. My bad.

I think every country should donate more. The question should be is it plausible to donate more relief?

Wrong info, EU is not 'ready to release 30m', it's donating 30m.

Some of the european countries surprise me with the low amount they give, including mine, though they do work through the EU. That figure could've been way higher...or at least more material help.

Personally, I think the US does do a good job regarding aid... as Bush said yesterday, "In the year 2004, our government provided $2.4bn in food and cash and humanitarian relief ... that's 40% of all the relief aid given in the world last year."

How much aid does this crisis need? As much as anyone can give - it's going to take billions...

Iraq will cost the US upwards of $200 billion by the time they pull out, whenever that may be.

I don't know specifically what the AIDS protestors at the Republican Convention were protesting about but personally, I don't think aid should be given with religious morality. This was the first article Google brought up as I'm short on time, but as it's from the LA Times and details the arguments it's good enough for starters... [url]www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Archive/Thanks/Q159649.html[/url]

And if Bush brought every single country out of poverty he'd be president of the millennium and he wouldn't be despised... but he ain't gonna do that.

BTW the figures are changing and confusing but it appears the UK has committed $29 million to the disaster. And other similarly wealthy countries should do the same.

I would urge all of you to give something if you haven't, however small, and be thankful you are alive. :( [url]www.ifrc.org[/url]

Compared to other countries, the U.S. certainly needs to donate more, despite the war in Iraq. A few million is change compared to the billions spent on the war. While the money being given by each country does seem small, one needs to realize that there are a lot of individuals giving money through organizations like the Red Cross, so there is more money going through than it appears.

the us sent 12 boats and 5,000 men, who pays for that, or is it taken out of the $35 mil.

^^ That is in addition to the $35 million. For my part, I think the US approach to this has been quite good.

I have to agree, the US has done well regarding aid. But no matter how much money is gathered, there is never enough, esp. with crisis of such large scale. But like Yao said, I am surprised by the amount some of the European countries have contributed, esp. France.

Almost 5,000,000 in aid through Amazon.com only.

Unbelievable. The money is funnelling in from all areas.

[url]http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PX3BEL97U9A4I/104-9987163-6801537[/url]

Update:

[url]http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L28593949.htm[/url]

International contributions up to date.

France will [i]pledge[/i] all they want, but I wonder how much they will actually send. I don't trust Chriac and his administration all that much.

If they really send that much, I commend them on their donations.

Chirac is a crook. It's a PR move for now if you ask me.

More than half of the $35 million the US is "giving" is a line of credit. Plus I know where they can get a hold of $40 million. Just cancel the corona....inaugaration.

and Canada is giving $40 milion

[quote=HoneyBearKelly]More than half of the $35 million the US is "giving" is a line of credit. Plus I know where they can get a hold of $40 million. Just cancel the corona....inaugaration.[/quote]

Do you think the US is the only one doing this?

The majority of France's donations are loans.

France should lose the colonial attitude it still has and move on in the new political order. The way it's acting now it's losing credit at a fast rate...

?100,000, that's nothing. And if they really are giving loans now, they are crooks. You don't go giving loans in this situation, they'll never be able to pay it back, and it would be a cheap way of economically binding those countries to France: that is called neo-colonialism. Though I haven't heard of that happening yet...(I mean the loans in this particular case).

Something else: today I read some the reader's letters in the paper, and a few of them argued that the Netherlands' news sources should concentrate a little less on the few Dutch casualties in Asia. I couldn't agree more: without wanting to discard the emotions of the families of the deceased, we have only 9 confirmed deaths on a stunning number of 120,000 and still counting. 30 missing. Mentioning it, ok. treating it as a national disaster: No Way. It gives me, and many others, the feeling that we consider our lives more than those of the people that lived there. And when the survivors return home (which they still have for crying out loud!), there's a shrink waiting for every single one of them, their family waiting for them, and the comfort of their own good old home waiting for them. Those people out there have nothing, just nothing left...

[quote]France should lose the colonial attitude it still has and move on in the new political order. The way it's acting now it's losing credit at a fast rate...[/quote]

I second that, although I do not see that happening any time soon.

[quote]?100,000, that's nothing. And if they really are giving loans now, they are crooks. You don't go giving loans in this situation, they'll never be able to pay it back, and it would be a cheap way of economically binding those countries to France: that is called neo-colonialism. Though I haven't heard of that happening yet...(I mean the loans in this particular case).[/quote]

I agree.

[quote]Something else: today I read some the reader's letters in the paper, and a few of them argued that the Netherlands' news sources should concentrate a little less on the few Dutch casualties in Asia. I couldn't agree more: without wanting to discard the emotions of the families of the deceased, we have only 9 confirmed deaths on a stunning number of 120,000 and still counting. 30 missing. Mentioning it, ok. treating it as a national disaster: No Way. It gives me, and many others, the feeling that we consider our lives more than those of the people that lived there. And when the survivors return home (which they still have for crying out loud!), there's a shrink waiting for every single one of them, their family waiting for them, and the comfort of their own good old home waiting for them. Those people out there have nothing, just nothing left...[/quote]

I agree. We Americans are missing 100 with 15 confirmed, if I'm not mistaken. I COULDN'T IMAGINE what it's like to have 20 family members missing, such as what the Sri Lankan familes are going through right now. Watching your family members float off into the ocean.

Incredible. Horrific.

Re: US Role in Tsunami Relief Efforts

[url]http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10531466.htm?1c[/url] Posted on Thu, Dec. 30, 2004

France Doubles Aid for Asian Disaster

JOHN LEICESTER

Associated Press

PARIS - One-upping the United States, France nearly doubled its aid pledge for tsunami victims to $57 million Thursday and briefly claimed the role as leading donor nation, following barbs from Washington about French generosity.

But Britain quickly topped France by more than tripling its donation to $95 million and Sweden promised $75.5 million. Spain's Cabinet, meanwhile, approved a $68 million package, although about a fifth was in loans rather than outright grants.

Since Sunday's huge earthquake off Indonesia and ensuing giant waves around the Indian Ocean, the United States has announced an initial $35 million aid package. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday that was "just a beginning."

Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin's boast that France vaulted to "the head of all the contributors" appeared to be a response to comments from Andrew Natsios, chief of the U.S. Agency for International Development, which distributes American government aid.

In a Fox News interview this week, Natsios said France tends not to be a world leader in foreign aid and often packages its help as loans, which he suggested are inappropriate in emergencies.

"The aid program in France is not that big," he said. "They do not tend to be dominant figures in the aid. The British are, the European Union is, the Japanese are, we are, the Canadians are."

At France's Foreign Ministry, spokesman Herve Ladsous shot back that French aid for the tsunami victims "is clearly donations and not loans."

Ladsous also said France gives more development aid than the United States and all other members of the Group of Eight industrial nations when measured as a proportion of a country's economic output.

"The figures speak for themselves," he said.

France allotted .41 percent of its gross national income to development aid in 2003, nearly triple the .15 percent from the United States, according to the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

The United States, which has a far bigger economy, led in dollar terms, donating $16.2 billion to France's $7.2 billion, which ranked third among the G-8 nations, OECD figures show. Japan was second.

After Sunday's disaster, in which 22 French citizens are known dead and 560 are missing, France first announced it would donate $30 million - but Raffarin said Thursday it would give an additional $27.2 million for preventing epidemics.

President Jacques Chirac, echoing calls from Germany and Italy, said France would press the Paris Club of creditor nations for a moratorium on debt repayments by countries hit by the disaster. He also called for the creation of a worldwide alert system for earthquakes and tsunami and for a European Union reconstruction fund for the affected areas.

French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier, back from a tour of the destruction in Thailand and Sri Lanka, recommended that nations go beyond the relief and reconstruction coalition formed by the United States, India, Australia and Japan and laid out by President Bush on Wednesday.

"Of course there needs to be a humanitarian action coalition - as President Bush just proposed," Barnier said. "But there also needs to be another international coalition against poverty, for development."

How much are these countries worth?? that is a lot of money now.. i don't want to sound ignorant but do we have to re-build the areas for them or give them food for a chance to re-grow??

^^france is funny

Seems I have to swallow some remarks here, thoug for once I'm glad I have to. This is good news for the suffering people out there...

The overwhelming amount of donations coming from the US will come 'privately'. There are multiple organizations here in America that are nearing 10+Million already.

Amazon is at 8M The Catholic Church is at 21M American Red Cross 18M

Those are the ones off the top of my head I've read about today.

[quote=Yao]Seems I have to swallow some remarks here, thoug for once I'm glad I have to. This is good news for the suffering people out there...[/quote]

Indeed. I'm amazed at how much has already been donated.

Holy mollee.

U.S. to increase funding 10X to 350 Million: :shock: :shock:

[url]http://reuters.myway.com/article/20041231/2004-12-31T175516Z_01_N31255054_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-QUAKE-USA-AID-DC.html[/url]

Re: US Role in Tsunami Relief Efforts

Its About time they did.. of course the Us were getting slated for giving such little money..

I know ireland is giving more than 10million and if you consider our population being so small....in relative terms thats very generous on our part..

Im glad to see the Us has upped its aid money.. :D

Re: US Role in Tsunami Relief Efforts

[quote=Mr.Big]Its About time they did.. of course the Us were getting slated for giving such little money..

I know ireland is giving more than 10million and if you consider our population being so small....in relative terms thats very generous on our part..

Im glad to see the Us has upped its aid money.. :D[/quote]

I have been seeing other organizations, and other political groups from other countries lashing out at the US. But what you do not see in the media, is that the 35M was the initial payment made on Sunday, before the worst was even reported. Colin Powell told the media many times, that we would likely end up sending 1Billion+ dollars before all of this is over with.

Bush gave Africa 15 Billion in Aids funding, to think that 35 million would be the maximum payment, is absurd.

Actually it is hypocritical and weak starting to lash out at the US or any other country immediately after the first aid-announcements have been made imho. Makes it some sick kind of match here: who cares most, who gives most? Are we the champions of pity?

[quote=Yao]Actually it is a hypocritical weak starting to lash out at the US or any other country immediately after the first aid-announcements have been made imho. Makes it some sick kind of match here: who cares most, who gives most? Are we the champions of pity?[/quote]

The fact that this was an issue, shows you what journalists hate Bush, or Americas value system.

This shouldn't be an issue. What we donated at first.

Quick to jump on the bandwagon with their assumtions to discuss what we did, or did not do.

this shit's like work... nobody tell their coworkers how much they make, the coworkers don't ask, and everybody's happy. the problems start when people start flaunting around their money. it doesn't fucking matter how much money anybody donates, because as long as someone donates they've done their part.

Is this your debut in the political forum Pickles? :wink:

But you're kinda right I guess, every country is always showing off with their compassion rate, really childish. Instead they'd better concentrate on getting the stuff where it should be, because only a fraction of the aid is actually arriving at the scene at present...

The US needs to do more for this relief effort. Some of it has to do with PR but the fact of the matter is that people are dying. The US Gov't can afford to do more than 35MM. We are supposed to be the richest nation so why is it that Japan is giving double? If we can afford the war in Iraq, surely we can give money to help those who are suffering.

Every country needs to do more, it is wrong to point the finger to one country only...And the first numbers have since then already doubled or tripled in most cases.

[quote=Yao]Is this your debut in the political forum Pickles? :wink: [/quote] wtf. wasn't this in GYY when I posted to it? I refuse to contribute to Politics! ya know... refuse, except for that previous post, and this one explaining my previous and this post. Yeah. I'll be back... rarely :mrgreen: