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[QUOTE=srbbnd;777433]People fear change I'm tired of these old fucks.[/QUOTE]

Nice way to describe our senior citizens! They fear change because they are afraid they won't get the same health care they have now. Obama and others pushing this bill will tell you that end of life health care is too expensive and there will be counseling on what care should be provided under the new plan. Counseling is too broad of a term and could be interpreted as we'll let you die because this procedure costs too much money. If you were say 70 years old, you'd be concerned too.

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....

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[QUOTE=superdave;777663]Race has been brought into the picture since the town halls aren't going well for the Democrats. I guess it's the Obama team's nuclear option. When in doubt shame the other side with racism. Paul Krugman wrote about racism used tacitly towards Obama in his op-ed last week. And I've seen and heard other news analysts claiming racism in the town halls. However, I don't think racism will work this time since most people don't see a logical connection between racism and health care. Hey Obama, it's not all about you, you ego-maniac![/QUOTE]

Sounds like an accurate synopsis to me.

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[quote=toasty;777477]Apropos of your post:

[URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/the-last-gasp-of-the-angr_b_255273.html[/URL][/quote]

Great article. IMO I feel a lot of people are just pissed Obama got elected and this gives them a chance to vent or something to pick at.

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[quote=superdave;777670]Nice way to describe our senior citizens! They fear change because they are afraid they won't get the same health care they have now. Obama and others pushing this bill will tell you that end of life health care is too expensive and there will be counseling on what care should be provided under the new plan. Counseling is too broad of a term and could be interpreted as we'll let you die because this procedure costs too much money. If you were say 70 years old, you'd be concerned too.[/quote]

Typical

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[quote=superdave;777670]Nice way to describe our senior citizens! They fear change because they are afraid they won't get the same health care they have now. Obama and others pushing this bill will tell you that end of life health care is too expensive and there will be counseling on what care should be provided under the new plan. Counseling is too broad of a term and could be interpreted as we'll let you die because this procedure costs too much money. If you were say 70 years old, you'd be concerned too.[/quote] Ha... as if. Look, I'm not even in favor of this plan in its current form, but I have to say that your statement is completely inaccurate. And if those 70 year olds are scared, it's probably because their share your misinformed point of view. Read this closely:

[quote]The proposal [B]does NOT[/B] say that you must submit to some sort of "counseling" that will result in you being forced to die without health care. The provision you're talking about only authorizes Medicare to pay doctors for counseling patients about end-of-life care and other related issues (living wills, hospice care, etc.) [B]IF THE PATIENT REQUESTS IT[/B].[/quote] [URL]http://www.fox13now.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-health-care-end-of-life-qa,0,4107295.story[/URL] [URL]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/11/national/w000510D98.DTL&tsp=1[/URL] [URL]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/23/betsy-mccaughey/mccaughey-claims-end-life-counseling-will-be-requi/[/URL] [URL]http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2009/db20090730_530683.htm[/URL]

There's a lot more out there if you just Google it. And see the last article I posted: [I]even the AARP[/I] says this talk of "death panels" is bullshit and supports plan.

So please...reconsider your "facts". Your credibility would be greatly enhanced if demonstrated an independent understanding of some of the key elements of the proposal as opposed to whatever fantasies your biased right-wing sources try to scare into you in the name of their partisan agenda.

What's scarier to me than anything in Obama's plan is the level of intelligence being demonstrated by so many people at these town halls who are speaking out on national TV and making all kinds of ridiculous - clearly without even a clue as to what is actually [I]in[/I] the proposal. If we make these changes, we'll all become "Godless Rooshians" overnight!... We'll all start goose stepping and giving the Heil salute!... The government will force us to burn American flags and eat our babies!... Please. :roll: These are my fellow citizens who have the same vote as me and could serve as a jury of my peers?? [I]That [/I]scares me.

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wow, im always amused on the really really insightful ways you reply to other peoples ignorants remarks, my hat is of to you Mr. Miro.

Rm, what i meant about your "proposals" is that i doubt the goverment is gonna create a facebook acount just so that it can send you some "info".

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[quote=Miroslav;777701]

There's a lot more out there if you just Google it. And see the last article I posted: [I]even the AARP[/I] says this talk of "death panels" is bullshit and supports plan.

So please...reconsider your "facts". Your credibility would be greatly enhanced if demonstrated an independent understanding of some of the key elements of the proposal as opposed to whatever fantasies your biased right-wing sources try to scare into you in the name of their partisan agenda. [/quote]

Oh Miro this is embarrasing. I hate to have to do this but....:lol::lol: and CJ you yet again show your intelligence by backing Miro on his statement.

[URL]http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/president-obamas-senior-moment.html[/URL]

"[COLOR=DarkOrange][I]The problem?[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][I]The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet. [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][I]The country's largest advocacy group for Americans over 50 issued a statement after the event saying, "While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate."[/I][/COLOR]

Me -->:Anal:<--Miro

You were saying something about facts and credibility?? Don't just listen to your President with big ears and in the future actually look into your facts. He is back in campaign (liar) mode. So it seems Seniors have a legitimate reason to be skeptical even more so now that they have been lied to.

So who is really playing the disinformation game here?? This makes the swastikas look like the dems might have done it now.

It is like what my boss says "it is hard to sell something when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about."

I wonder how the media is going to spin this tomorrow. Maybe just a quick retraction so the sound bite can stay alive and well.

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Oh and CJ it looks like the President is listening to me.

[URL]http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/[/URL]

You were right though it wasn't a facebook account.

Even the AP is in on the lie about AARP

[URL]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hnpVQA2hVCTkw3i_Q0T5SraadeVgD9A0QV1G2[/URL]

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how is this:

"Everyone should receive an email of the powerpoint or create a facebook account that you have on the news every night with the powerpoint attached. Have different attachments"

even remotly close to a webpage were you could get the facts, basically the same way as if you actually read the bill. Again, all im saying is that the goverment is not gonna call your house, or be-friend you on myspace so you can "understand" things, everybody has the oportunity and the responsability to do a little research if they are that much against the thing.

About the AARP, it seems they need to get their people in check, becasue you will find reports all over the news saying how local aarp offices are showing their support for Obamas plan:

West Los Angeles AARP supports Obama [URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-meeks/west-los-angeles-aarp-sup_b_130356.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/letters/bal-aarpletter0730,0,4219940.story[/URL]

[URL="http://www.tnj.com/barry-rand-supports-obama%E2%80%99s-healthcare-plan"]http://www.tnj.com/barry-rand-supports-obama%E2%80%99s-healthcare-plan[/URL]

and heres more with some video of some AARP peeps saying how theyre advocating for the healthcare plan. [URL]http://action.afa.net/videos/aarp/[/URL]

again, i trully dont know why the AARP would back out of their own claims but hey, i really dont care.

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[QUOTE=runningman;777733]Oh Miro this is embarrasing. I hate to have to do this but....:lol::lol: and CJ you yet again show your intelligence by backing Miro on his statement.

I wonder how the media is going to spin this tomorrow. Maybe just a quick retraction so the sound bite can stay alive and well.[/QUOTE] Yes, I fully admit that my comment about the AARP was not correct: AARP says it supports health care reform per se, but they have not yet fully endorsed a specific plan.

But guess what? I was still half right; their spokesman [I]did[/I] speak out and say that the "death panels" are a pile of bullshit:

[quote]"We've been hearing concerns from our members that this is a step toward government-mandated euthanasia," says Jim Dau, [U][B]a spokesman for the AARP[/B][/U], the advocacy group for people past age 50, which supports health-care reform to help older Americans. "These are baseless scare tactics put out by those who seek to derail health-care reform. The bill would help people find resources to help themselves and their doctors make important decisions about the end of their lives."[/quote]

And guess what else? The AARP supports this advance care planning [I]portion[/I] that people are misconstruing as "death panels": [quote]The AARP's Dau feels that, despite the controversy, the advance care planning portion of the bill will survive and become law. [B]"This is such a commonsense, win-win piece," he says. "I'm sure it's considered good sense by lawmakers of both political parties, and medical associations and nursing groups."[/B][/quote] [url]http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2009/db20090730_530683.htm[/url]

And guess what else? [I]None[/I] of this crap with the AARP still changes the fact that the claims by the right-wingers about [I]death panels[/I] (!!!) and such are [B]completely wrong[/B]. There is a difference in erring on what the AARP claims as to their endorsement vs. erring on the basics of what is in the proposal. Comprende?

So basically, aside from that specific comment about the [I]AARP's full endorsement[/I], which is like 1% of my post, the entire remaining 99% of my post makes complete sense and is relevant.

And by the way, let me say it again - [I]I don't even support the plan[/I] as it presently stands, which you could have found out if you had actually read some of my previous posts in this thread. But I try to form my opposition for rational reasons based on what's in the plan and not irrational partisan "socialism" fearmongering.

So chew on that.

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In response to some of the other posts, I never said there were death panels. Palin said that not me. The bill hasn't been properly explained by anyone so people will interpret it a lot of different ways is my point. And more importantly seniors and other citizens like me don't trust government or Obama. When Obama and the bill mentions end of life care as too expensive and we can save money then people especially seniors get nervous.

And another thing Miro, why are you arguing with me and RM if you don't even agree with the bill in its current form? You and the President were wrong about AARP's position. I'm for health care reform too, but I don't like the bill because no one really understands it and it's too big of a bill to pass not to understand.

I watched most of the Obama town hall and it seemed like a big lie to me. The way he explained it everyone gets covered, you can still see your doc and it doesn't cost any more money in taxes except for those rich bastards. If that was true, then I'm all for it, but I don't believe him. He basically said the plan would pay for itself or profit from cutting out waste in health care. I logically don't see how you can cover 50 million more people mostly who are illegal aliens without incurring billions more in cost.

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i think there is a big difference on supporting the bill, and just presenting the facts, ive been reading Miros posts and most of them are just examples of how misinformed people are, just look at some of RM's claims, which most of the times can be really inacurate.

Again on the AARP, just look at the links i posted on the other page, the AARP has been supporting the bill since it was proposed, what made them back out of their claims? i really dont know, but just look at the facts, the statements are there, the videos are there.

Also, just like youre pointing out, how can you opose something you dont fully understand, RM posted a couple of websites where you can get the information you need to fully understand the bill, then, once you understand it, you can take a position and either hate it or just support it.

Was watching this last night on TV, really gives you a different perspective on how much we need somekind of a health care reform. [URL]http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=10887981[/URL]

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the problem is CJ is that the bill is written in hardcore lawyer jarble. Nobody can understand it. I actually tried reading it and realized it was a lost cause because I couldn't keep track of all the sections.
Which means you have to trust people. The mob (as we can see) doesn't trust anybody.

Miro death panels are exactly what is going to happen. They happen already today with Insurance comapnies (ever see John Q). The only difference is that the goverment will be in charge of you should receive. Rather than getting possible life saving treatment you will end up in triage with a saline IV. Again how much do you trust your goverment? and why if you do?

Also to say support from AARP members is support you are wrong. I need support from firemen for LaserAid but to say firemen support LaserAid would mean that I need support from the President of the US Fire Marshals. Watch out for the play on words.

I can't beleive that the AARP lie isn't a major story today.

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[quote=superdave;777786]And another thing Miro, why are you arguing with me and RM if you don't even agree with the bill in its current form? You and the President were wrong about AARP's position. I'm for health care reform too, but I don't like the bill because no one really understands it and it's too big of a bill to pass not to understand.[/quote] Look, maybe I was too harsh on you and I apologize. I argue with runningman because... well, I think that's pretty obvious to everyone as to why. :lol: I argued with you because I guess I just find it frustrating that this is the way the whole debate is turning out... that barely credible "leaders" like Sarah Palin can get the entire right wing to shut off their brains and go hysterical about completely fictional things [I]without any facts whatsoever[/I]. And that's a shame, because after this thing fails (and it probably will), there will be no debate about health care for another decade or two by which time health care spending as a percentage of GDP will have skyrocketed [I]through the roof[/I]. And so we waste this opportunity to have a real debate about what could be done with health care because of these partisan scare tactics.

[quote=runningman;777839]Miro death panels are exactly what is going to happen. They happen already today with Insurance comapnies (ever see John Q)..[/quote] :roll: Whatever.

And John Q was a [I]fictional[/I] movie. Do you understand what that means? It means it was not a true story. Google it and see what you find. So while I'm not saying that problems don't occur with insurance companies, you may want to reconsider citing that movie as evidence of "death panels". ("oh runningman...this is so embarrassing...I hate to do this but :lol::lol:").

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Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.

John Q was a fictional story but the overall meaning applies to today's world. Surely you must have been to a hospital in your lifetime where you realized that more could have been done but wasn't because of money? I did when my grandma was sick in Michigan. They said there wasn't anything they could do and moved her to triage. After my mom signed the paperwork to move her to triage a different doctor (by my request to the family) came in and said they could have operated still (lungs) but since my mom already signed the papers there was nothing we could do but hold her hand and wait for her to die 5 days later.

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[quote=runningman;777896]Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.

John Q was a fictional story but the overall meaning applies to today's world. Surely you must have been to a hospital in your lifetime where you realized that more could have been done but wasn't because of money? I did when my grandma was sick in Michigan. They said there wasn't anything they could do and moved her to triage. After my mom signed the paperwork to move her to triage a different doctor (by my request to the family) came in and said they could have operated still (lungs) but since my mom already signed the papers there was nothing we could do but hold her hand and wait for her to die 5 days later.[/quote]

again with the AARP, you are doing the same thing the right wingers are doing with the "Nazi" thing, someone pointed them out, not it must mean that they are calling them "Nazis", Obama said, the AARP supports our plan, and they did, now they are saying, we didnt endorse it, oh well, just like youre saying right now, be careful with the play on words.

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[QUOTE=runningman;777896]Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. [/QUOTE]

wtf?

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

AARP said they were for healthcare reform but they never endorsed Obama's plan. He lied about it.

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[quote=runningman;777896]Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.[/quote] Whatever. If you want to see ignorant, look in the mirror. I was not completely wrong; I posted on minor inaccurate detail while the vast majority of my post was [I]right[/I]. What I said about there not being any "death panels" in Obama's plan is COMPLETELY TRUE, and even you can't find evidence to deny that. So suck on that.

I guess you're too oblivious to even realize that I and just about everyone else on the board completely ream you on a [I]daily basis[/I] like clockwork for the ludicrous, cracked-out fantasies that you post on here with no shred of reality or common sense ("everything's a Mossad / CIA conspiracy!").

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TO RM:

You realize Obama doesn't call for many of these kinds of endorsements, one of his staff does, they are probably your age or younger with a college degree and have campaign experience.

If you look at AARP's website, one would assume they had endorsed the Obama administrations reform proposal, I would have.

Either way, endorsement blunders happen all the time, does not make anyone a liar, get a clue man.

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well you can go think positive thoughts and hopefully it will just go away. You're right though, the CIA and Mossad are just for show. They really don't do anything..:roll:

Go believe your liar!! Drink the KoolAid

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[quote=runningman;777896]Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.
[/quote]

Good lord, dude, talk about overplaying your hand.

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I love it every time I'm right I get personal attacks.

He LIED!!!!

You mean to tell me the President read the website and misunderstood??

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[quote=runningman;777947]I love it every time I'm right I get personal attacks.

He LIED!!!!

You mean to tell me the President read the website and misunderstood??[/quote]

If you think that "you've overplayed your hand" is a vicious personal attack, then you clearly don't have a thick enough skin to be in this forum.

I don't know what the President did and didn't read, but I do know that you pointing out that the normally spot-on Miro was incorrect on one detail of his post hardly constitutes an "ass-raping." If every time someone proved [B]you [/B]wrong, [B]you'd[/B] sustained an "ass raping," we'd be able to use your rear end as a conference room by now.

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HAHAHA I see the debate is over for now.. Obama lied and that is the end of it. The town halls will continue to get more violent.

The best part is nobody has ever [U][B]proved[/B][/U] me wrong. They just always had an opnion. That is neither here nor there though.

I love the Obama lovers fighting til the death. He lied right to your faces and you still defend him..

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[quote=runningman;777947]I love it every time I'm right I get personal attacks.[/quote] Yeah, just like you were right about the John Q movie being evidence of "death panels" at health care companies.

And just like you were right when you posted a video of some random black dude talking yesterday and used it as evidence of "Obama playing the race card."

And just like all of your other dumbass Mossad / CIA "conspiracy theories" with no evidence to them whatsoever.

You sure were "right" in all those cases! Congratulations.

It must be nice to think that you're "right" in whatever parallel universe you live in. The rest of us on here think you're nutty and we read your posts purely for entertainment purposes. I'd continue arguing with you, but frankly I feel silly responding to someone who is so detached from reality. So I think I'll leave you to your own devices now - don't hurt yourself.

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2+2=5 I know guys..

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[quote=toasty;777625]just got a text from a friend who is in attendance at Claire McCaskill's Town Hall here in MO right now -- evidently, one of these wingnuts just grabbed a picture of Rosa Parks from one of the participants and tore it in half. That should be well-received. :roll:[/quote]

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/rosa-parks-poster-torn-up_n_257578.html[/url]

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I would boo those Democrat provocateurs as well.

Yet again I ask what does Rosa Parks have to do with Health Care reform?? A blind man could see that this was to escalate the race issue.

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I love this discussion...it's so much like the conservative right in the US describing the euthanasia act in The Netherlands as legitimate systematic terminating lives of sick and older people because they would be too expensive or economically obsolete. It is exactly the same, the conservative right not even twisting or bending words or phrases in the act but spreading blatant lies with the specific objective of instilling fear in people. A proven successfull tactic to mobilise frantic support, even for ridiculous measures or claims.

This whole discussion doesn't even revolve around facts, only around rhetorics. And any individual that is stupid enough to not make this distinction should be stripped of their voting rights.

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[quote=runningman;777987] Yet again I ask what does Rosa Parks have to do with Health Care reform?? A blind man could see that this was to escalate the race issue.[/quote]

Well, nothing, and who knows what the message was supposed to be. Doesn't mean it was right to rip that out of her hands and ball it up like that, tho...

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who cares it was a picture?? there are much bigger fish to fry IMO

Again nobody knows if it was a Democrat or a Republican that ripped it up.

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[quote=runningman;778004]who cares it was a picture?? there are much bigger fish to fry IMO

Again nobody knows if it was a Democrat or a Republican that ripped it up.[/quote]

So if someone were to come and rip something out of your hands, you'd be cool with it? Shows a complete lack of respect -- that's the problem.

Also, are you really unclear on whether a Dem or Republican ripped it out of her hands? Give me a break. Pretty disingenuous, IMO.

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[quote=runningman;777954]HAHAHA I see the debate is over for now.. Obama lied and that is the end of it. The town halls will continue to get more violent.

The best part is nobody has ever [U][B]proved[/B][/U] me wrong. They just always had an opnion. That is neither here nor there though.

I love the Obama lovers fighting til the death. He lied right to your faces and you still defend him..[/quote]

how is not proving you wrong with all of the infor posted before, where theres even sites form the right wingers complaining on how the AARP is supporting the healthcare reform??

again, dont know if youre blind or just dumb, here are the links::

[URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-meeks/west-los-angeles-aarp-sup_b_130356.html[/URL]

here is a letter from a AARP member himself: [URL]http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/letters/bal-aarpletter0730,0,4219940.story[/URL]

here is a video of your buddy Glen Beck talking to the spokes person from the AARP about why the AARP supports the reform:

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm3KqG71mbw&feature=player_embedded[/URL]

if they AARP all of a sudden decides to back down on their own claims, well thats their own problem, but dont come saying that Obama lied when the evidence is there.

please, RM, please, give me some links, some proof of AARP not supporting the bill before their retraction, please, dude you can even look at some of Limbaughs recordings blasting the AARP for supporting the bill.

again, you keep acting like a child that gets his ass beaten down constantly, all you can do is respond with a childish remark and show how ignorant and inmature you are. But you know what, lets leave it at that, like you said, you are 100% right and everybody here is wrong as usual.

cheers.

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[quote=runningman;777954]The best part is nobody has ever [U][B]proved[/B][/U] me wrong. They just always had an opnion. That is neither here nor there though.[/quote] That would be because you tend to say a lot of crazy things that no one can prove or disprove, but everyone recognizes is just beyond common sense - like saying that some video of a random black dude talking means Obama is playing the race card or that Mossad or the Jewish League is trying to secretly take over the world or whatever. How are we supposed to "prove" to you that you're delusional?

If I went around saying that the world was about to end tomorrow or that there are little green martians on Saturn doing the macarena and snorting lines of coke, no one would be able to "prove" me wrong, either.

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I must say Runningman, you do not back your claims with empirical observations or data...

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[quote=Yao;777996]I love this discussion...it's so much like the conservative right in the US describing the euthanasia act in The Netherlands as legitimate systematic terminating lives of sick and older people because they would be too expensive or economically obsolete. It is exactly the same, the conservative right not even twisting or bending words or phrases in the act but spreading blatant lies with the specific objective of instilling fear in people. A proven successfull tactic to mobilise frantic support, even for ridiculous measures or claims.

This whole discussion doesn't even revolve around facts, only around rhetorics. And any individual that is stupid enough to not make this distinction should be stripped of their voting rights.[/quote]

its always like that though...the aim is to put the people with the initiative on the defensive.

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[quote=toasty;778006]So if someone were to come and rip something out of your hands, you'd be cool with it? Shows a complete lack of respect -- that's the problem.

Also, are you really unclear on whether a Dem or Republican ripped it out of her hands? Give me a break. Pretty disingenuous, IMO.[/quote]

Toasty it turns out that nobody was allowed to bring signs into the building. That lady broke the rules and that is why it was ripped out of her hands. It clearly was a lack of respect on her part by not following the rules.. Yet again you guys speak not knowing the facts and you claim to have all the answers.

Oh and CJ so now I am some Glen Beck lover all of a sudden. You guys are to much with all the bullshit you make up. Your God Obama lied and now the personal attacks come. That is what always happens whenever we talk about Obama and I disagree. For the record I bashed Bush even more then Obama. Plus I already explained what an endorsment is. You can't go to Best Buy and have a worker there say they like you and claim that Best Buy as a Company likes you. CJ have you turned on the news today at all?? They have been talking about how Obama "jumped the gun" and "mispoke" all day. I already gave one link of many out there. Google it.

[URL]http://www.washtimes.com/news/2009/aug/12/white-house-obama-misspoke-about-aarp-endorsement/[/URL]

[URL]http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/08/12/gibbs-obama-misspoke-about-aarp/[/URL]

[URL]http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/An-Age-Old-Headache-53060687.html[/URL]

How are the American people supposed to believe the salesman when he doesn't know what he is selling and who supports him??

Also what is with Obama and his little white girls asking questions?? A while back a little girl was asking questions and she missed school and Obama signed a note for her. Yesterday there was another little girl reading her moms (or the whotehouse) notes she was handed.. How cute..

Yao how so he lied? Waitl, What topic. We kind of went off topic on different things from all the personal attacks by the Obama Deepthroaters..

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Let me be clear you can't get an endorsment from only a member. You can only get an endorsment from the acting head of the organization.... HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN I MAKE THIS CJ??? YOU ARE RETARDED!!

There never was a retraction. They said they were for health care reform but never Obama's plan. He LIED..