[quote]Iran's hard-line regime, starting to show stress under the mounting pressure of massive opposition rallies, has told foreign media that if they're seen on the streets of Tehran today with a camera, they will be arrested.

Since the contested election results were announced just hours after polls closed on Friday, images of thousands of thousands-strong protests — some turning violent — have streamed out of Iran's capital city.

Tuesday, the regime's Ministry of Islamic Guidance, which strictly controls where all foreign media go and who they speak to in Iran, told [B]CBS News[/B] and, we believe, all other Western media, that the rally scheduled by opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi's supporters for Tuesday afternoon was illegal, and so, therefore, was covering it.

But the ban is much broader than that, extending to any coverage in Tehran whatsoever.[/quote]

[URL="http://bit.ly/Mlqx3"]http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/16/world/worldwatch/entry5091219.shtml[/URL]

The good news is that nimble, silly little twitter has stepped in to fill the void, pumping out a neverending and almost overwhelming amount of information and images from Iran. The Iranian government has tried to shut down twitter as well, and people have figured out workarounds with proxies and the like to continue broadcasting in 140 character increments.

Many people wonder -- in fact, there's at least one thread on [ms] about it -- what the draw is to twitter. Well, twitter has put on its big daddy pants today and flexed some muscle, showing that it does more than just telling your friends that you're eating a ham sandwich and can actually be an important tool. The Revolution may not be televised, but thanks to twitter, the rest of the world is still in the loop.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Cia!!!

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=runningman;760358]Cia!!![/quote]

Yeah reading this I think it might be quite likely as well...a cheaper way of dealing with a problem.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

It is really fascinating to watch this unfold in the broader context of the last decade or so. Iran has been demonized for years, and as to the hard-liners, rightly so, but there is this evidently gigantic underbelly of the Iranian population that is much more progressive and yearning for a more free Iran, to the point of (near?) revolution. It's a little ironic, I think, that we went into Iraq promoting "freedom" at the barrel of a gun, and right next door, a fellow member of the Axis of Evil has this vibe just percolating up organically.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

its never organic...believe me I come from a country that had a revolution less than 10 years ago...its never organic.That said it doesn't mean that its wrong i.e. that it won't be good for the people. Anyway if you read Iran's history they had a revolution just 30 years ago to get rid of a US backed dictator...so its not that strange.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

yeah, im hitting twitter hoping to see some real chaos. this could be exactly what the middle east needed. a citizen driven rise to democracy caused by another islamic nutjob refusing to give in and deferring to the morons in the big towels.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

verily so; shit is redic:

[URL]http://www.savagebreakfast.com/2009/06/cyberwar-is-here.html[/URL]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Good luck to em - a million people took to the streets in the uk to protest at mr Bliar's illegal invasion of Iraq but did it stop him? Did it fuck. Let's hope Iran shapes up to be more of a democracy than this shit-hole

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

^^^ So true:lol::lol:

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=Shpira;760407]its never organic...believe me I come from a country that had a revolution less than 10 years ago...its never organic.That said it doesn't mean that its wrong i.e. that it won't be good for the people. Anyway if you read Iran's history they had a revolution just 30 years ago to get rid of a US backed dictator...so its not that strange.[/quote]

Maybe organic is the wrong word. I more mean that it isn't something that we in the US is actively foisting upon unwilling citizens, it is coming from within.

Do you think what is going on right now in Iran bears the hallmarks of an actual revolution? Put another way, is anything going to come of this, or will it just fizzle out over time? At this point, I have a bit of a hard time believing that Ahmadinejad can come out of this in office with any sort of legitimacy. From what I gather of the polls, it wouldn't have been that unreasonable for him to have won the election fair and square (although by nowhere near the margin claimed), but by virtue of the wild overreaching in rigging the thing, any recount that has him winning will necessarily be viewed as suspect, even if it's accurate. Given the reaction to the election results, I can't imagine that that would be well-received.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Great video, sends a chill up my spine, in a good way:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLo_6Qp1eTk[/youtube]

The audio is not messed up, they just aren't making any noise -- silently taking to the streets in mass protest, rings louder than any chant IMO -- I love it.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Very shocky whats happening there at the moment...

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Unfortunately, this revolution will likely not last long nor change anything in Iran in the near term. The military is in Adhmadinejad's control, and they will stop at nothing to crush people who go too far and forcefully reign everyone back in line. And the rest of the world is unlikely to intervene.

Ahmadinejad and the Iranians in charge should know that the rest of the world is not stupid; we all know that "democratic elections" and "Iran" go together like oil and water. They wouldn't recognize democracy over there if it came up and bit them in the ass. The elections are just a circus to lend legitimacy to Ahmadinejad's reign. We all know that he is a ruthless dictator and that there was no way he was going to "lose" this "election", no matter what.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=toasty;760868]Maybe organic is the wrong word. I more mean that it isn't something that we in the US is actively foisting upon unwilling citizens, it is coming from within.

Do you think what is going on right now in Iran bears the hallmarks of an actual revolution? Put another way, is anything going to come of this, or will it just fizzle out over time? At this point, I have a bit of a hard time believing that Ahmadinejad can come out of this in office with any sort of legitimacy. From what I gather of the polls, it wouldn't have been that unreasonable for him to have won the election fair and square (although by nowhere near the margin claimed), but by virtue of the wild overreaching in rigging the thing, any recount that has him winning will necessarily be viewed as suspect, even if it's accurate. Given the reaction to the election results, I can't imagine that that would be well-received.[/quote]

I think Miro and you are right that nothing is going to come out of this NOW. But in my opinion its the beginning of the end for Ahmadinejad. He has lost any form of legitimacy he had in the eyes of the international community and his own people. Its only a question of time before the pot boils over and I am not so sure that the Army will shoot its own citizens...but I guess we will see.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

^^ I wish I could share your optimism. I'm not sure how many people in the world have seen Ahmadinejad as legitimate, except for other ruthless dictators and angry, bearded Islamic whackjobs. But I don't think that bothers him one bit. When you control everything and people cower before your military might (and soon your nuclear stockpile), you can get by well enough without that much legitimacy.

Just look at that asshole in North Korea: I'm pretty sure the entire nation would be thrilled if he and his goons would just drop dead already so that they could finally join the 21st century - and yet he's still there, happily ruining everyone's life.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

different culture I would say...and yes some nations do see him as legitimate to an extent that at least they think his people don't want to rebel against him

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

^^ Here's my fear, though: the nations and people that generally see him as legitimate and as "culturally ok" are the same ones that think it's normal to force everyone to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, to beat people if they express different opinions, to heavily censor information for anything "anti-Islamic", and to burn a woman's face with acid if she doesn't want to wear a veil in public. Therefore, I don't see [I]them[/I] as very legitimate, either.

I'm not that much of a cultural relativist. I don't think those behaviors are [I]ever[/I] ok in [I]any[/I] culture at any time in the world. I think they are simply malicious and barbaric. In that sense, most Islam-centric nations have a lot to long way to go before they ever join the civilized 21st century civilized world, where the rest of us have already realized that granting basic freedoms to people is actually a preferable thing.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=Shpira;760407]its never organic...believe me I come from a country that had a revolution less than 10 years ago...its never organic.That said it doesn't mean that its wrong i.e. that it won't be good for the people. Anyway if you read Iran's history they had a revolution just 30 years ago to get rid of a US backed dictator...so its not that strange.[/quote] During the Cold War you either sided with USSR or USA. He sided with USA....

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=Miroslav;761004]^^ Here's my fear, though: the nations and people that generally see him as legitimate and as "culturally ok" are the same ones that think it's normal to force everyone to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, to beat people if they express different opinions, to heavily censor information for anything "anti-Islamic", and to burn a woman's face with acid if she doesn't want to wear a veil in public. Therefore, I don't see [I]them[/I] as very legitimate, either.

I'm not that much of a cultural relativist. I don't think those behaviors are [I]ever[/I] ok in [I]any[/I] culture at any time in the world. I think they are simply malicious and barbaric. In that sense, most Islam-centric nations have a lot to long way to go before they ever join the civilized 21st century civilized world, where the rest of us have already realized that granting basic freedoms to people is actually a preferable thing.[/quote]

Not only those nations...don't forget that Russia sold both weapons and nuclear energy technology to Iran...without Russia's support Iran would have been most likely invaded near the same time as Iraq...

Now on the other hand it is becoming apparent that in order to stay in power he may have to use force against his people which no matter the circumstances has not been the case before.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

IR is using force on them as we speak.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

I'll tell you what, as a guy who is really into politics and voter behavior, watching the fallout from this election is positively fascinating to me. I'm bummed that the coverage is so limited -- it seems like most of the networks just repeat the same thing over and over again because they are so constrained in what they can broadcast, and one can only follow the #iranelection twitter feed for so long before your eyes start to glass over.

The most comprehensive source I've seen is [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html"]Nico Pitney's live blog[/URL] on the Huffington Post -- he seems to cull out the most interesting and/or significant developments -- but it would be nice to have some info from other sources as well. Is anyone aware of any other good sources for info on what is going on?

I was disappointed to see Khameni take such a hard line this morning, primarily, because it suggests that there could be a lot of blood shed going forward.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=toasty;761629]I'll tell you what, as a guy who is really into politics and voter behavior, watching the fallout from this election is positively fascinating to me. I'm bummed that the coverage is so limited -- it seems like most of the networks just repeat the same thing over and over again because they are so constrained in what they can broadcast, and one can only follow the #iranelection twitter feed for so long before your eyes start to glass over.

The most comprehensive source I've seen is [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html"]Nico Pitney's live blog[/URL] on the Huffington Post -- he seems to cull out the most interesting and/or significant developments -- but it would be nice to have some info from other sources as well. Is anyone aware of any other good sources for info on what is going on?

I was disappointed to see Khameni take such a hard line this morning, primarily, because it suggests that there could be a lot of blood shed going forward.[/quote]

[url]http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/[/url]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

from the live blog posted above, a blog post from an opposition supporter:

[QUOTE]"I will participate in the demonstrations tomorrow. Maybe they will turn violent. Maybe I will be one of the people who is going to get killed. I'm listening to all my favorite music. I even want to dance to a few songs. I always wanted to have very narrow eyebrows. Yes, maybe I will go to the salon before I go tomorrow! There are a few great movie scenes that I also have to see. I should drop by the library, too. It's worth to read the poems of Forough and Shamloo again. All family pictures have to be reviewed, too. I have to call my friends as well to say goodbye. All I have are two bookshelves which I told my family who should receive them. I'm two units away from getting my bachelors degree but who cares about that. My mind is very chaotic. I wrote these random sentences for the next generation so they know we were not just emotional and under peer pressure. So they know that we did everything we could to create a better future for them. So they know that our ancestors surrendered to Arabs and Mongols but did not surrender to despotism. This note is dedicated to tomorrow's children..."[/QUOTE]

chilling IMO

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Highest form of propaganda the "emotional stories."

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[QUOTE=runningman;761814]Highest form of propaganda the "emotional stories."[/QUOTE]

^according to whom/what?

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[QUOTE=Miroslav;760970]Unfortunately, this revolution will likely not last long nor change anything in Iran in the near term. The military is in Adhmadinejad's control, and they will stop at nothing to crush people who go too far and forcefully reign everyone back in line. And the rest of the world is unlikely to intervene.[/QUOTE]

Can't remember where I read it, but Ami is using the Revolutionary Guard to suppress the protests, not the regular army because he is in fact afraid that the latter will side with the Iranian citizens. Seems to me quite a sign of him being afraid of losing control, and if the army would decide to do so it would tell everyting about his legitimacy base in Iran...wich would appear to be virtually nonexistent outside the ultra-conservative group.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

the police/military/militias/general gun toting follower of islam have begun violently breaking up the demonstrations today, as reported by BBC this morning.

Gonna be interesting now that fanatics are saying they have control, the people are saying no, and the mlitary is intervening.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

It's also gonna be interesting to see wether the ones protesting for freedom are willing to take this as far as is needed...but the times have changed since for example the French Revolution -the state that has to be overthrown is in posession of far heavier means of coercion these days than was the case back then. Which makes a Revolution today much harder to achieve, at the cost of more human lives as well I'm afraid.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=floridaorange;761849]^according to whom/what?[/quote]

[URL]http://www.madetostick.com/[/URL]

Great Book. It is about all ideas and manipulation. You should read it honestly I found it to be a really easy read with a ton of great info.

Here is a quote from the book that deals with the issue we are talking about.

The Mother Teresa Effect "[I]If I look at the mass I will never act[/I]. [I]If I look[/I] at the one, I [I]will[/I]."

This is why that statement that toasty posted was felt deep in all of us.;)

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

fucking islamofacists are gonna get theirs; 6 feet deep done dead son, i'd like to see it in our lifetime.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Watch this to the end -- only about 2 minutes:

[url]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9ndxl_battle-w-police-tehran-iran-june-20_news[/url]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Wow the CIA really has them hopping mad over there. I find it fasinating how much world coverage this topic gets. Canada news, US news always about Iran. You can tell the US knew it was going to get fucked up, CNN sent Amanpour over to Iran before the elections.

Apparently it will be televised.

Also the US media is really pushing this hard. Today there are only a few hundered protesters and CNN is covering it like it is the end of the world.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

NEDA is exactly the Mother Teresa effect.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=runningman;762240]Wow the CIA really has them hopping mad over there. I find it fasinating how much world coverage this topic gets. Canada news, US news always about Iran. You can tell the US knew it was going to get fucked up, CNN sent Amanpour over to Iran before the elections.

Apparently it will be televised.

Also the US media is really pushing this hard. Today there are only a few hundered protesters and CNN is covering it like it is the end of the world.[/quote] I would guess that the CIA is keeping an eye on this, but I don't see much reason to believe that they either caused this mess, supported it, or impacted the news coverage of it...which is not to say that the US isn't pleased by what's going on. It's sufficiently plausible that the mess was originated and supported by Iranians who are sick of living in caveman-style economic and social systems and that the news coverage is impacted entirely by corporations acting on their own guidance.

The Iranian hardliners [I]wish[/I] they could pin this all on America (and they're trying). They wish they could sweep this under the rug and make it look like everyone in their country is united behind them, and so of course they're going to say that all of the news reports are wrong.

But the fact is that their system just sucks ass and their own people know it.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Not so fast, Miro -- check out the headline from Iran's Kayhan News:

[IMG]http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/aper.jpg[/IMG]

The headline reads, "$400 Million CIA Budget For Creating Riots After The Election." So, there's that. ;)

I don't think the CIA is behind all of this, but if they are, good for them. As between dishing out "freedom" by the barrel of a gun as we did in Iraq and subtly encouraging thousands of people to rise up themselves and demand, it, I'd prefer the latter.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

haha... yes, the Iranian media is right up there with North Korea when it comes to basic journalistic integrity...

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

but remember nobody tops the US when it comes to media. Russia didn't attack Georgia, Georgia attacked Russia.

I think the CIA has a lot to do with what is going on and I don't say that in a bad way. Whatever gets the job done.

Bombing mosques and starting a green parade. The CIA loves colors like back in the Ukraine revolution(Orange Revolution). It's pretty simple if it helps the USA the CIA probably has something to do with it.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=runningman;762240]Wow the CIA really has them hopping mad over there. I find it fasinating how much world coverage this topic gets. Canada news, US news always about Iran. You can tell the US knew it was going to get fucked up, CNN sent Amanpour over to Iran before the elections.

Apparently it will be televised.

Also the US media is really pushing this hard. Today there are only a few hundered protesters and CNN is covering it like it is the end of the world.[/quote] Why do you assume the US has everything to do with everything...

Amanpour always follows Iranian affairs, look at her name for details why... Her pockets are line with IR money anyway, so fuck her.

It is being covered because perhaps people care about a nation has been oppressed for 30 years and it finally standing up for itself on its own merits (Not the CIA's merits)

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Paying attention to Iranian media right now is not the best. I could list about 20 things and people they have blamed it on. Watching state TV is actually quite amusing. It is almost if Comical Ali was working for them.

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[quote=Miroslav;762480]haha... yes, the Iranian media is right up there with North Korea when it comes to basic journalistic integrity...[/quote]

and the UK don't forget - Anyone remember Dr David Kelly?

I think it's fair to say western governments would be happier than anyone to see the fall of the current regime so the involvement of secret services in events like these (to some degree at least) is almost guaranteed. I'm not saying they started the whole thing though they will definitely be doing very little to stop it. As for the initial outcry over the "rigged" election and subsequent theories about the real results, who in the west has any idea whatsoever what the poll results were ? All we know is the propaganda from our own media machines which, for some unexplained reason, we trust. It is these same systems (controlled in the main by government) that have us believe Iran is such an unpredictable rogue state in the first place. They blow up the whole goodies vs baddies as there is little else they can do to get people to support their intentions. eg invade / control