What is he going to do about this mess that is building steam in California???

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

Nothing.

Why would he do anything? The path to the decision for gay marriage lies through the judicial system - specifically, the Supreme Courts of each state. Obama really plays no role in it.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

what do you think he should do?

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

he doesn't play a role?? Ya right.. He could make it a federal issue.

I'm Roman Catholic.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=Miroslav;753295]Nothing.

Why would he do anything? The path to the decision for gay marriage lies through the judicial system - specifically, the Supreme Courts of each state. Obama really plays no role in it.[/quote]

^^this -- although actually, in this case, the voters voted to change the constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman, which pretty much takes it out of the state supreme court's hands, too, since they are bound to follow the constitution in the absence of some procedural irregularity in the vote. At this point, the only avenues for relief -- at least as I see it -- are:

1. Another vote to undo the effect of Prop 8
2. SCOTUS invalidates the state constitutional provisions as being inconsistent with some component of the federal constitution.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753304]he doesn't play a role?? Ya right.. He could [B][U]make it a federal issue.[/U] [/B][/quote]

What does that mean? Seriously, this is a phrase I hear all the time, and 99% of the time it is uttered, it is completely nonsensical. Your comment is [B]not [/B]an example of that random 1%.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

he is the president. he owns the house. he owns the senate. he could pass a law requiring americans to wear blue hats if he wanted to.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=toasty;753312]

2. SCOTUS invalidates the state constitutional provisions as being inconsistent with some component of the federal constitution.[/quote]

Has this ever happened before?

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

look I want to state my position before people read into my Roman Catholic beliefs. I am all for Gays having a Union between them and allowed all the rights that every other couple gets. But I really take offense to them calling it marriage. Marriage was formed by the Church from holy martimony. That is why I think it should be called something else. Also I get disgusted by gays that say "equal but seperate" to a Union rather than marriage. It is one thing to get your rights to the land and another by disrespecting other religious people.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=Lorn;753318]Has this ever happened before?[/quote]

good question -- but between the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution and the Fourteenth Amendment, I think it's pretty clear that it could.

[U]Supremacy Clause:[/U] This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

[U]Fourteenth Amendment (section 1):[/U] ...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;...

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753320]look I want to state my position before people read into my Roman Catholic beliefs. I am all for Gays having a Union between them and allowed all the rights that every other couple gets. But I really take offense to them calling it marriage. Marriage was formed by the Church from holy martimony. That is why I think it should be called something else. Also I get disgusted by gays that say "equal but seperate" to a Union rather than marriage. It is one thing to get your rights to the land and another by disrespecting other religious people.[/quote]

People were "married" for eons before the church adopted it and it took on religious overtones. You can get married by a judge in the courthouse every Tuesday and Thursday around here with nary a mention of God or the church, and that marriage will "count" the same as a marriage that is performed by the Pope himself.

Do you get equally offended when non-religious people get "married" by a judge? Is the fact that that is also called "marriage" disrespectful to your religious beliefs? Serious question.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

Your comparing apples and oranges. At least it is a man and woman getting married by a judge so marriage would still be fitting.

Marriage is also about pro-creation.

What is the big deal with Union? They still get the rights of the land. It just seems they are becoming difficult by acting like they are the same when it is obvious they aren't.

Everyone better be careful of not being anti-straight and anti-religion.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=toasty;753323]good question -- but between the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution and the Fourteenth Amendment, I think it's pretty clear that it could.

[U]Supremacy Clause:[/U] This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

[U]Fourteenth Amendment (section 1):[/U] ...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;...[/quote]

The 10th Amendment must fit in here somehow.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=Lorn;753334]The 10th Amendment must fit in here somehow.[/quote]

I suppose that is the counter, but it the SCOTUS were to find that the right at issue was one that was created/guaranteed by the US Constitution or federal statute, the 10th amendment isn't really applicable because, by definition, it would not fall within its coverage.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753329] Marriage is also about pro-creation. [/quote]

OK then, how about married people without children? Are they less married than couples with children? Do they offend you as well?

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

and lets be clear here - there are thousands of hetro couples who should have never had children, they are horrible parents. just being hetro does not make you a good parent.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753317]he is the president. he owns the house. he owns the senate. he could pass a law requiring americans to wear blue hats if he wanted to.[/quote] He doesn't own anything; he's a president, not a dictator. It's clear that you're not very well aware of how our government works over here, so let me explain:

We have a little something called "checks and balances" baked into our system here. That means that governmental power is purposefully divided among three branches of government: the Judicial (i.e., Supreme Court), the Executive (the President & staff), and the Legislative (House & Senate). The idea is that no one branch can hold all power and unilaterally override the other two at will; each branch of government does different stuff and acts as a "check and balance" against the other two.

The president and his folks basically make up the Executive branch. The issue you're proposing really resides in the Judicial branch - with possible impacts into the Legislative branch, depending on what path it might take. It is by design that the U.S. President isn't given power to make whatever legislation he/she choses and also interpret the Constitution however he/she sees fit; that is what a ruler or a dictator does, not a president.

Here is a helpful picture:

[IMG]http://www.usconsulate.org.hk/pas/kids/images/branches.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=Huggie Smiles;753357]and lets be clear here - there are thousands of hetro couples who should have never had children, they are horrible parents. just being hetro does not make you a good parent.[/quote]

^^^Sweet Fancy Moses, this!!!

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

Miro you live in dream world. Do you know that people that refer to the constitution are possible terrorists. I would love to debate the constitution with you but this is the gay thread. Thanks for the chart you just proved my point. House senate and himself.

Toasty you are again reffering to a small minority. We are talking about the masses here. The average couple has kids. 2 I believe

Aren't they fighting about there rights? So give it to them and call it a union. Case closed.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753368] Toasty you are again reffering to a small minority. We are talking about the masses here. The average couple has kids. 2 I believe [/quote]

Well, if we were to allow gay marriage, we'd be talking about a small minority of couples there, too, with most couples still being one man and one woman. Why make an exception, if you will, for the minority of couples that don't have children and not extend the same courtesy to couples that happen to have found love with someone of the opposite sex?

[quote=runningman;753368]Miro you live in dream world. Do you know that people that refer to the constitution are possible terrorists. I would love to debate the constitution with you but this is the gay thread. [/quote]

As someone that actually uses the Constitution regularly in my day to day work, I would LOVE to see this. PLEASE start a thread to debate the Constitution -- I'm BEGGING you.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

Just because a husband and wife do not have kids does not mean they do not want to have kids. Many simply cannot.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753368]Miro you live in dream world. Do you know that people that refer to the constitution are possible terrorists.[/quote] Yeah, this whole thing about the three branches of government here in the USA is just a "dream world" that I made up - the president can just bypass the Constitution and make anything a "Federal issue" at will, just like North Korea. :roll::lol:

Christ, what is it with you? It's one thing to take issue with opinions, but you'd deny the existence of gravity if it didn't match up with your obtuse statements. You really take this whole shameless arrogance thing to another level...

[quote=runningman;753368]I would love to debate the constitution with you but this is the gay thread.[/quote] You don't even have the sense recognize that this "gay thread" you started and the whole Constitution issue happens to practically be one and the same - it IS a Constitutional issue, Einstein. :roll: That is why the California Supreme Court is involved.

[quote=runningman;753368]Thanks for the chart you just proved my point. House senate and himself.[/quote] If you think it does, then that just proves your lack of understanding of the chart.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753320]Marriage was formed by the Church from holy martimony. [/quote]

and "the church" is relevant to the 21st century......because???

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

^well for one, the world would be much less literate and mortality rates would be much higher in many countries if churches had not opened schools and hospitals.

Church may not have been relevant in your life but that does not take away from the fact that churches are often times the first and/or biggest organizations to provide aid after natural disasters as well as economic disasters as well.

Churches are businesses too, and while many are not run well, there are a great deal of churches that are run well and keep very focused on providing their community with all kinds of different out-reach that perhaps the government is failing at.

My point is, you can't just focus on the Sunday morning aspect of a church, they are also businesses and non-profit organizations that help people locally all over the world.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

look at all the straight bashing going on here.. I'm the only one who put a stance..

Constitution thread coming.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

^feeling your oats aren't you :lol:

Obama sums up his view pretty clearly and efficiently in this 1:43 response:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8[/url]

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

It's been well documented that Obama believes marriage is between a man and a woman and that he is not in favor of gay marriage, but also believes to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. So if people are looking for the federal government to legalize gay marriage it ain't going to happen. Not with this President or the Republican Supreme Court. If you look at today's ruling the one vote for repeal was a Democrat. I will never argue over someones religious beliefs, but if you take religion out of it are you still against it? Are you ok with civil unions? I have two friends one who is gay and the other is a lesbian and I see them as equals, no different than you and I. One of them was married during the open period and the other was not and at this point will never will (I think that will change at some point). Is the word Marriage such a religous term or is it a term Love.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

Why don't we call all marriages unions and just be done with the word marriage or would that offend you as well in your black & white world?

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

Gay marriage lost today in California. I was surprised the California court didn't overturn the people, but glad they didn't because I don't like activist courts. Btw, isn't California supposed to be this cool, progressive state? Guess not. Get over yourself Californians. You could learn something from the midwest.

I could care less about gay marriage being heterosexual. If gays want to marry then, I'm not against it. Like Chris Rock said "Let them be miserable like the rest of us". I don't like this issue simply because it distracts us from more important issues. We should focus on the economy, terrorism and global warming.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=superdave;753468]I don't like this issue simply because it distracts us from more important issues. We should focus on the economy, terrorism and global warming.[/quote]

Totally agree with you there...

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

i guess california is not tht open minded about it yet , I wonder how does it work if married gay couples from others countries move to US ?

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

I agree too with the distraction factor and think this needs to be a lower level priority for now. While I won't speak for the entire state of california, I will say that North Cal is not the same as Southern Cal, and regardless social change is a very very slow moving animal.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[QUOTE=runningman;753317]he is the president. he owns the house. he owns the senate. he could pass a law requiring americans to wear blue hats if he wanted to.[/QUOTE]

lol, you are such a fuckin moron its just beyond me.

as Miroslav has graciously explained earlier and you failed to learn anything that he has said. ... yes Obama can write laws requiring us to wear blue hats BUT that law has to run through the house and senate AND PASS BOTH in order to become law. you need to take some elementary government class i think in order to understand anything.

there is no hope for you. you are just about as ignorant and fucking stupid as the stereotypical southerner.

as for the topic at hand, the word "Marriage" is just that.. a word. if you dont think this is a religious issue you are a god damn moron. there is a reason why the mormons from Utah went to California to prey on ignorant Americans to vote against the gay issue in the first place. sure they want to have 8 wives but if gay people can make 1:1 work, fuck em! stupid religions. *barf.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[QUOTE=runningman;753429]I'm the only one who put a stance..[/QUOTE] You did indeed; the only problem is that your stance is thoroughly un-Constitutional and devoid of any semblance of reality.

But back to reality...

Folks, it would be good for us to keep in mind that the reason the California Supreme Court voted it down was not because they personally believe gay marriage to be wrong; they voted it down for [B]procedural reasons due to their interpretation of the state Constitution[/B]. Again, the Cali Supreme Court, as part of the Judicial branch, is there to [I]interpret the Constitution[/I] and not to make decisions based on their personal opinions or to politically "legislate from the bench" - that's what the Legislative branch is for. All they are supposed to do is interpret the circumstances based on what's in the Constitution at the time.

And their interpretation was that they did not have the authority to overstep the [I]voters' right [/I]to determine the gay marriage issue - which they did when they voted down Proposition 8. So all the Supreme Court said was that if California wants gay marriage, than they have to [I]follow a different process[/I] - i.e., they have to do it the long way and get people to vote again for a change in the state Constitution. That does not mean that the judges hate gays, are all uber-religious, etc.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

..

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=ddr;753516]lol, you are such a fuckin moron its just beyond me.

as Miroslav has graciously explained earlier and you failed to learn anything that he has said. ... yes Obama can write laws requiring us to wear blue hats BUT that law has to run through the house and senate AND PASS BOTH in order to become law. you need to take some elementary government class i think in order to understand anything.

there is no hope for you. you are just about as ignorant and fucking stupid as the stereotypical southerner.

as for the topic at hand, the word "Marriage" is just that.. a word. if you dont think this is a religious issue you are a god damn moron. there is a reason why the mormons from Utah went to California to prey on ignorant Americans to vote against the gay issue in the first place. sure they want to have 8 wives but if gay people can make 1:1 work, fuck em! stupid religions. *barf.[/quote]

How old are you 5?? Nice language. I can tell you are a butt pirate by the way you bad mouth me and anybody religious. Pathetic. You can't even have a CIVILIZED conversation about the topic.

I don't understand when the world turned upside down. Gays like you ddr can go around bash everybody straight and then we straight people are supposed to bow down to you?? So we aren't allowed to say anything against you guys but you can just BASH THE SHIT out of us?? OHHH OK.

Marriage is not just a word it is a promise in front of God that the two souls become basically one. In the promise to raise a family and pass on our values. Fags [U][B]like you[/B][/U] wouldn't get that because you are focused on only yourselves and think of only yourselves.

The Dems own the house and senate. That was my point.

You are pretty smart hating on religion like that. That could be considered slander or hate speech.

Where are all the people bashing ddr for his language. Whenever I say something against the tide I have 10 people come on and ask me to watch what I say?? Favortism on here is pathetic.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

all of your arguments are based on assumptions, you cannot argue about the constitution with assumptions, just because the democrats own the house doesnt exactly mean that all that Obama says its gonna be done, and if they do, its just an assumption because that hasnt happened.

And about ddr, at least hes calling YOU an ignorant, and not the whole forum, like you do all the time.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

To call someone a "fag" for defending the rights of people who happen to be gay is far more offensive than to call someone a "fucking moron" because they are a fucking moron. If someone stands up for the rights of a black man do you call them a nigger? Do you call them a white-basher? Your narrow-minded and bigoted views stink this board out every time you appear. Fair play to you if you believe in god and marriage but (as is always the case with you), anybody who's opinion differs is wrong. It would be comical if it wasn't sad.

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

[quote=runningman;753670] Pathetic. You can't even have a CIVILIZED conversation about the topic. .[/quote]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Re: Obama and Gay marriage

^^^ ha ha yeah

[IMG]http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/6214/0/Pot_Calling_the_Kettle_Black_T-Shirt.ashx[/IMG]