Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

For me personally, I give credit where I believe credit is due and have no problem arguing if I think I understand the subject matter at hand differently and can speak intelligently to some extent on that subject...I am the first one to STFU if I do not think I can add legitimate value to the conversation, I am very comfortable observing and learning. Shpira brings a unique vantage point to the table as do others, but because he is literally in univ studying this stuff, he's able to speak very elequintly and accurately where others (including myself) use layman terms. Everyone is entitled to be wrong, but their insight (in appropriate doses) is still valuable.

And I do believe that a society that is polarized and homogenous leads to problems solving societal issues. Different cultures and different people working together is priceless in terms of creative synergy and problem solving. But put a group of people together that are all fundamentally the same and well...you get the idea.

the devil is almost always in the details by the way...

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[QUOTE=CactusBeats;730409][B][I]to obfuscate[/I][/B] [the issue] - to make obscure; to be evasive, unclear, or confusing

That is the point of these conspiracy theorist documentaries; give out an overwhelming amount of fact, partial fact, warped fact (warped to the point of misleading fact), link together with unrelated other fact, partial fact, warped fact and create the illusion of a connection between them. Repeat this process (over & over) until full desired effect is achieved. Allow the viewer to believe that the creator of the documentary is looking out for them while the subjects of the documentary are against the viewer. Play scary music while talking about the subject(s) like the subject(s) are out to get the viewer. Finally, congratulate the viewer on his/her superior intelligence for being above the fray and taking time out to watch this complete nonsense.[/QUOTE]

LOL, you definitely hit the nail on the head CB ...exactly right and on regarding "Core of Corruption: In The Shadows" ... at least the first 10 minutes is how you have described it would. (Pretty solid considering you posted this before the movie was posted, but they really are all the same).

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=CactusBeats;730409]

Play scary music while talking about the subject(s) like the subject(s) are out to get the viewer. Finally, congratulate the viewer on his/her superior intelligence for being above the fray and taking time out to watch this complete nonsense.[/quote]

Playing "scary music" is fairly common in any type of Film, Documentary or TV Programme. That DJ Shadow, Mutual Slump appeared on everything from Documentaries about Cot Death, Torture in Iraq even X factor. Its not just Conspiracy Movies.

You keep spouting off but when it comes to specifics you dont reply. Do you not find it strange how the US Government have failed to show any photographic evidence of a plane crashing into The Pentagon on 9/11 ?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=chunky;730580] You keep spouting off but when it comes to specifics you dont reply. Do you not find it strange how the US Government have failed to show any photographic evidence of a plane crashing into The Pentagon on 9/11 ?[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/debris.jpg[/IMG]

[url]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp[/url]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730587][IMG]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/debris.jpg[/IMG]

[URL]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp[/URL][/quote]`

No Aircraft flying into the Pentagon in them photos. Is that the best you could come up with.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

^^I'm going to gamble that you didn't bother to read the article accompanying the photo, right?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

And do you have evidence that something other than a 757 hit the pentagon? Evidence, not speculation or conjecture. And if so, what became of the people on flight 77? Are they in the witness protection program or something?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

It's the US's department of defense building, who knows, something could have blown up the plane seconds before it hit the building in which case tapes and photos certainly would not be released...blowing up or shooting down a commercial airliner would certainly raise controversy and conspiracies...this is just a thought, frankly I have no idea why there are not better photos or videos.

Anyway, Steve Riskus who apparently saw the plane crash and took the following photos leaves his email address and AOL IM name if you want to have a chat with him...

good photos:

[url]http://criticalthrash.com/terror/crashthumbnails.html[/url]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730598]^^I'm going to gamble that you didn't bother to read the article accompanying the photo, right?[/quote]

It says at the beginning of "Star Wars Along Time A Go In A Galaxy Far Away" People can write whatever they like it doesnt mean its true. Like I said before has the US Government released any Photographs of a plane colliding with The Pentagon. Now If you can show me some of them pictures or some of the video footage then I will be impressed. There's enough members of the public who have asked. There should be enough footage to see. It is the Pentagon after all. Do you think its acceptable that they haven't produced them in the public domain?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730607]And do you have evidence that something other than a 757 hit the pentagon? Evidence, not speculation or conjecture. And if so, what became of the people on flight 77? Are they in the witness protection program or something?[/quote]`

Most of the interviews and footage from Eye Witness's has been very mixed. Some people say they saw a low flying plane, some say it was small plane others say it was a large plane. Others have even said it was a missile. Like I said before I've still not seen no footage.

[quote=floridaorange;730617]It's the US's department of defense building, who knows, something could have blown up the plane seconds before it hit the building in which case tapes and photos certainly would not be released...blowing up or shooting down a commercial airliner would certainly raise controversy and conspiracies...this is just a thought, frankly I have no idea why there are not better photos or videos. [/quote]

There was also government official who claimed he was with Dick Cheney who claimed Cheney was given the opportunity to shoot down the supposed plane, but Cheney refused to give the order. Which just adds more confusion to the story.

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[quote=chunky;730618]It says at the beginning of "Star Wars Along Time A Go In A Galaxy Far Away" People can write whatever they like it doesnt mean its true. Like I said before has the US Government released any Photographs of a plane colliding with The Pentagon. Now If you can show me some of them pictures or some of the video footage then I will be impressed. There's enough members of the public who have asked. There should be enough footage to see. It is the Pentagon after all. Do you think its acceptable that they haven't produced them in the public domain?[/quote]

First of all, snopes.com is a non-partisan, non-biased site devoted to checking the veracity of urban myths, conspiracy theories, etc. Not sure why you'd take these conspiracy theorists who make no effort to be objective as gospel whilst ignoring the folks that look at it with no agenda in mind, but it is what it is. It does give me an idea of where you're coming from, though, so thanks for that.

I suspect there's not more footage of a plane crashing into the Pentagon for the same reason there's not more footage of the first plane hitting the WTC -- no one suspected there was a reason to train a camera on the Pentagon and wait. As a matter of fact, part of me suspects that if you were to just stand outside the Pentagon with a video camera rolling, you might have some guys in cammo asking you a few questions.

With that said, though, I do recall that there was some footage from a security camera that was released a while back that, while grainy and choppy, did show a plane hitting the building. I'd make an effort to find it, but I frankly have other shit to do.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

There is a part of me that thinks that the whole 9/11 ordeal was orchestrated by Bush and his oil cronies in order to artificially inflate the prices of oil by being in Iraq.

I find it interesting that Bin Laden, the apparent mastermind of the whole 9/11 thing, was suddenly cast off the radar after it happened. It was obvious that it was him and not Iraq but they went in there instead.

Did anyone watch that 60 minutes interview with that ranger earlier this year? They were within a football field of Bin Laden but mysteriously the order to kill him was called off. Why was the order called off?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730635]I suspect there's not more footage of a plane crashing into the Pentagon for the same reason there's not more footage of the first plane hitting the WTC -- no one suspected there was a reason to train a camera on the Pentagon and wait. As a matter of fact, part of me suspects that if you were to just stand outside the Pentagon with a video camera rolling, you might have some guys in cammo asking you a few questions.

With that said, though, I do recall that there was some footage from a security camera that was released a while back that, while grainy and choppy, did show a plane hitting the building. I'd make an effort to find it, but I frankly have other shit to do.[/quote]

Yeah there where 4 stills released by the US Government none of which had a plane in them they showed and explosion and some smoke that was it. They are posted somewhere in here.

The pentagon is loaded with CCTV litteraly 100's of camera's. Thats the footage I and many others would like to see. Or are you going to tell me now that the Pentagon dosnt have CCTV.

Heres one of them

[IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/71chunky/odds/DouglasPentagonData_clip_image0041.jpg[/IMG]

Here's another with a supposed plane. Can anyone see a plane there? [IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/71chunky/odds/Pentagon_20911_thumb1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=ddr;730637]There is a part of me that thinks that the whole 9/11 ordeal was orchestrated by Bush and his oil cronies in order to artificially inflate the prices of oil by being in Iraq.

I find it interesting that Bin Laden, the apparent mastermind of the whole 9/11 thing, was suddenly cast off the radar after it happened. It was obvious that it was him and not Iraq but they went in there instead.

Did anyone watch that 60 minutes interview with that ranger earlier this year? They were within a football field of Bin Laden but mysteriously the order to kill him was called off. Why was the order called off?[/quote]

much more reasonable points about why we did what in the wake of 9/11, but that's a completely different question than whether or not a plane hit the Pentagon. People are even free to believe that the US Government was behind 9/11, but the "did a plane hit the Pentagon" thing it just absurd. That ship has sailed. If it was a missile, or a bomb, there are plenty of stories that could have been told that would be entirely consistent with those things happening that would accomplish the same ends.

Put another way, why bother to pretend a plane hit it if the damage was caused by something else? It's ludicrous.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=chunky;730641] The pentagon is loaded with CCTV litteraly 100's of camera's. Thats the footage I and many others would like to see. Or are you going to tell me now that the Pentagon dosnt have CCTV.[/quote]

You know, that's a fair point. Maybe they haven't shown that footage for the same reason they stopped showing the planes hitting the towers over and over again -- it's upsetting to watch and it really doesn't add anything unless you have some sort of bloodlust. They may have 100's of cameras, but probably only a handful that would be pointed in that general direction because, you know, why bother to point 100 cameras at the same thing -- maybe none of them got a good shot, and maybe that footage we saw was the best they had. Security cameras aren't exactly designed for catching objects moving at that kind of speed. I don't know.

It's all really a moot point, though, unless you can answer the two questions I've raised in here:

1. What happened to the people on Flight 77?
2. If it was something other than an airplane, what is gained by saying it was an airplane?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730652]You know, that's a fair point. Maybe they haven't shown that footage for the same reason they stopped showing the planes hitting the towers over and over again -- it's upsetting to watch and it really doesn't add anything unless you have some sort of bloodlust. They may have 100's of cameras, but probably only a handful that would be pointed in that general direction because, you know, why bother to point 100 cameras at the same thing -- maybe none of them got a good shot, and maybe that footage we saw was the best they had. Security cameras aren't exactly designed for catching objects moving at that kind of speed. I don't know.

It's all really a moot point, though, unless you can answer the two questions I've raised in here:

1. What happened to the people on Flight 77?
2. If it was something other than an airplane, what is gained by saying it was an airplane?[/quote]

You can watch the planes hitting the towers over and over again. you cant see the pentagon one once. It mite be upsetting to watch but it adds a lot to whether the story is genuine or not. I'm also sure the pentagon, one of the most defended air spaces in the world has more than one camera pointing at one specific area.

What happened to Flight 77 has also been heavily debated. It could of been easily put somewhere else.

Its easier to say 4 planes got Hi Jacked and crashed than 2 plus an explosion at the Pentagon and a crash in Pennsylvania.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

^Chunky exactly. A detailed photo of a commercial plane that has been retargeted to crash into the pentagon is going to be classified. It's not going to be available for the publics eyes to sit back and watch in slow motion. That does not mean it doesn't exist (moot point) and that doesn't mean our government was behind 9/11. As far as oil goes there are other threads covering this topic.

*edited does [U]NOT[/U] mean our government is behind 9/11

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=chunky;730664]You can watch the planes hitting the towers over and over again. [/quote]

With all due respect, no shit. There were cameras all over the place by the time the second tower was hit. Go digging for footage of the first tower being hit, though, when people didn't have a reason to be watching, and it's a lot harder to find. It's out there, but most of the time when you see a plane flying into the towers, it's the second plane.

[quote=chunky;730664] What happened to Flight 77 has also been heavily debated. It could of been easily put somewhere else. [/quote]

OK, but you're still glossing over the "why" part. Why take a perfectly good plane and hide it somewhere, and then fake a plane crash into the pentagon. Why not just fly the plane into the pentagon and avoid the need to fake anything? No shortage of people died on 9/11, so saving one plane full of people would seem like a completely hollow gesture.

I think it is beyond dispute that Flight 77 was a real flight and actually took off, so what could possibly be gained from flying it somewhere else, hiding it, and pretending that it hit the Pentagon as opposed to just flying it into the Pentagon? It just makes no sense.

[quote=chunky;730664] Its easier to say 4 planes got Hi Jacked and crashed than 2 plus an explosion at the Pentagon and a crash in Pennsylvania.[/quote]

How is that easier? What difference does it make? Think back to 9/11 -- in the opening hours of the day, there were reports of car bombs going off in DC and all kinds of other shit that we now know to be inaccurate, but it seemed completely reasonable at the time. If someone launched a missile or managed to bomb the pentagon that day, would we have believed that terrorists had gotten their hands on a missile or figured out a way to bomb the pentagon? Of course we would.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

To be clear, if you want to argue about whether 9/11 was an inside job, whether there are unusual things about the way the buildings fell, whether there are things that we don't know about what really happened and how much we knew before it happened, that's a discussion we can have. This whole "it wasn't a plane" thing, though, is just silly. Ask the families of the people that were killed in the Pentagon whether they care if it was a 757, an ICBM, or a garbage bag full of TNT that caused that gaping hole. It just doesn't matter.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=chunky;730498]So was the list of names of Obama's cabinet made up them. Or are they not from Wall Street?[/quote] Sure they are. Why wouldn't they be? There's nothing secret about that; it's plain as day for all to see.

[quote=chunky;730590]`

No Aircraft flying into the Pentagon in them photos. Is that the best you could come up with.[/quote] ah...I love a good conspiracy argument - there is just [I]never [/I]any amount of evidence that can discredit the conspiracy. Anything that counters the conspiracy argument is [I]obviously[/I] "part of the conspiracy!" :lol:

I guess these eyewitness accounts are also just "part of the conspiracy." [URL]http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html[/URL]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[QUOTE=chunky;730580]Playing "scary music" is fairly common in any type of Film, Documentary or TV Programme. That DJ Shadow, Mutual Slump appeared on everything from Documentaries about Cot Death, Torture in Iraq even X factor. Its not just Conspiracy Movies.[/QUOTE]

Point well taken. I don't really need to concede this either as I didn't say it was unique to conspiracy theory doc's in general. I agree with you here.

[QUOTE=chunky;730580]You keep spouting off but when it comes to specifics you dont reply. Do you not find it strange how the US Government have failed to show any photographic evidence of a plane crashing into The Pentagon on 9/11 ?[/QUOTE]

I only tend to put my effort in where I have either strong feelings and can counter an argument I disagree with and where I make the judgment it is worth my while to take the time out to speak.

No I don't find it strange that you don't see [I]specific footage of a plane[/I] flying into the Penatgon. I do see plenty of [I]photographic evidence[/I] in this thread of a plane having flown into the Pentagon. Please note the distinction.

In addition, The Pentagon is surrounded by two multi-lane boulevards; US 1 which is also Jefferson Davis Hwy and Virginia Route 110, Virginia Route 27 which is also Washington Blvd., and one Interstate 395 which is anywhere from 8-10 lanes wide depending on where you are. With all those lanes & miles of traffic around, I am sure that there was more than one eyewitness to the event (see Miroslav's post of the USA Today employee). If there was a lot of conflicting eyewitness evidence, it would have come to a head already.

[B][I]IMHO, conspiracy theories say less about the event they are describing than they do about the person ponying them up.[/I][/B]

On the only other specific (recently) I can think of to which I did not reply is regarding Obama's birth certificate. I have seen a digital facsimile of the original and I don't think it necessary for him to present more. I think it might be nice if the state of Hawaii could pony up the original for court to put this nonsense to rest. I do not see that as being Obama's responsibility though as he already met the standards put forth by the authorities in charge of the election and the courts have concurred with this multiple times now.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

No there is plenty of evidence of an explosion of at the Pentagon and a small amount of wreckage. There US Government should be easily able to quash the Theories but they haven't. So its OK for TV stations to broadcast missiles being fire in to targets in Iraq or Israel but not one still of a low flying plane seconds before impact.

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Do you also think its acceptable that George Bush & Dick Cheney where not interviewed by the 9/11 commission in a public domain ? The 9/11 Commission was a joke. Personally I think the Jersey Widows should of had their questions answered. All of them.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[QUOTE=chunky;730874]Do you also think its acceptable that George Bush & Dick Cheney where not interviewed by the 9/11 commission in a public domain ? The 9/11 Commission was a joke. Personally I think the Jersey Widows should of had their questions answered. All of them.[/QUOTE]

No, I think Bush & Cheney should have been interviewed (even if only in private with the details to be released somewhere down the line). I would definitely feel different if I were one of the family members or attorney of 9/11 victims, but I am not. I have little interest in banging my head into a brick wall over these principles when all I will ever get is bloodied & frustrated. People in the real world have to determine where best to focus their energy and frankly this issue is way, way down the list for me.

Yes I would like a government that is open and not corrupt. The world I live in humans run the government. I cannot pick and choose which world I live in. Humans are corrupt by nature. Therefore, the gov't will at times also be closed and corrupt.

What trade-offs are you making when you spend time thinking/chatting/talking about this issue? Something to think about..

No I don't work for the gov't nor does any of my family.

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I have better things to do than to live in the past.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

^^You can only understand the present by studying the past.

I agree that the whole pentagon issue is a bit blurry...there is actually a high resolution camera filming the pentagon 24/7 across the road that would have shown the plane hitting it perfectly but the tapes have been boxed up by the state department. Why...I don't know maybe because it wasn't a plane or maybe because they shot it down...but why would they launch a missile into the pentagon? The twin towers were not enough of an excuse to go to war? As for Bin Laden he was actually the first single individual to be targeted by a nation...I think it was 1999 the US bombed Afghanistan with 75 cruise missiles over a 1 hour period attempting to kill him. As for the objectivity of any site or book...I think that its non existent. Everyone brings their own biases to the discussion and you can't really trust anything 100%. So if your looking for the truth about anything IMO its usually somewhere between two diametrically opposed accounts.

p.s. The 9/11 report is an absolute fucking disgrace I tried reading it and its just 100% bullshit. you can get it online anyway...they don't answer any thing. I am not talking about the conspiracy shit...I am talking about security failure. Like why the fuck was the whole thing not prevented?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=floridaorange;730697]^Chunky exactly. A detailed photo of a commercial plane that has been retargeted to crash into the pentagon is going to be classified. It's not going to be available for the publics eyes to sit back and watch in slow motion. That does not mean it doesn't exist (moot point) and that doesn't mean our government was behind 9/11. As far as oil goes there are other threads covering this topic.

*edited does [U]NOT[/U] mean our government is behind 9/11[/quote]

So its OK for the US Government to release this photo with what you believe had an Aircraft in it but not a closer picture with a clear aircraft in it. I dont see the difference in the effect on national security if the supposed "aircraft" was in clear view.

[IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/71chunky/odds/Pentagon_20911_thumb1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=floridaorange;730617]It's the US's department of defense building, who knows, something could have blown up the plane seconds before it hit the building in which case tapes and photos certainly would not be released...blowing up or shooting down a commercial airliner would certainly raise controversy and conspiracies...this is just a thought, frankly I have no idea why there are not better photos or videos. [/quote]

If the US Government blew the plane up seconds before impact there would be more evidence of wreckage in front of the building on the lawn.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=CactusBeats;730888]No, I think Bush & Cheney should have been interviewed (even if only in private with the details to be released somewhere down the line). I would definitely feel different if I were one of the family members or attorney of 9/11 victims, but I am not. I have little interest in banging my head into a brick wall over these principles when all I will ever get is bloodied & frustrated. People in the real world have to determine where best to focus their energy and frankly this issue is way, way down the list for me.

Yes I would like a government that is open and not corrupt. The world I live in humans run the government. I cannot pick and choose which world I live in. Humans are corrupt by nature. Therefore, the gov't will at times also be closed and corrupt.

What trade-offs are you making when you spend time thinking/chatting/talking about this issue? Something to think about..

No I don't work for the gov't nor does any of my family.[/quote]

So what your saying is basically these people should accept it and move on.

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[quote=chunky;730869]There US Government should be easily able to quash the Theories but they haven't. [/quote]

It is not, nor should it be, the responsibility of the government to sit around debunking every "theory" advanced as to what happened. Hey, I never saw a plane hit the Pentagon, and I'd like to advance the theory that the damage was actually caused by long dormant swamp gas ignited by an employee's cigarette butt. Come on government -- hop to it! Prove me wrong!!!

[quote=chunky;730874]Do you also think its acceptable that George Bush & Dick Cheney where not interviewed by the 9/11 commission in a public domain ? The 9/11 Commission was a joke. Personally I think the Jersey Widows should of had their questions answered. All of them.[/quote]

For what it's worth, I agree with you that the 9/11 Commission was a joke, although I think it was probably more to disguise gross incompetence than complicity. You'll be hard pressed to find someone on this board that dislikes Bush and Cheney more than I do, but none of that makes a bit of difference in assessing whether a plane hit the Pentagon. It did. Can we move on?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Moving on sounds good to me...just wanted to say that since none of us were there, none of us would truly know even if pictures were released. I pulled up several names with contact information of individuals willing to be contacted about what they saw...if you have the notion, shoot'm an email?

I too never voted for bush and was a big skeptic of him from the very beginning, let alone his reelection, but that is a new thread.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730950]It is not, nor should it be, the responsibility of the government to sit around debunking every "theory" advanced as to what happened. Hey, I never saw a plane hit the Pentagon, and I'd like to advance the theory that the damage was actually caused by long dormant swamp gas ignited by an employee's cigarette butt. Come on government -- hop to it! Prove me wrong!!! [/quote]

I would say this is a bit more than "every theory". This was supposedly the biggest terrorist attack on US soil. I think you have to get the details 100%. If my house explodes while I'm at work, I know there will be a thorough investigation into why it happened and i imagine the investigator would not be hindered in the investigation. 9/11 should of been the most thorough investigation in American History and answered all the questions.

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[QUOTE=chunky;730949]So what your saying is basically these people should accept it and move on.[/QUOTE]

No, I was only speaking for myself. I mean that if I was one of the family members, I would probably feel differently and would want to know more and see more evidence. It's not up to me to tell any family member what to do because I believe people must make their own choices and seek their own truth. Everyone must come to their own conclusions and understanding of that days events.

[B][I]If I were one of the family members[/I][/B] (keep in mind, the following is only pertaining to me in a would-be circumstance), which I am not, I can only guess at how I might be feeling. My closest guess though after this amount of time is that to truly find peace within myself over this situation, I would need to fully accept that my loved one is gone and forgive those who perpetrated the event and those who were at fault in allowing it to happen. True peace is not accessible for me through vengeance or even justice. For me its only available through acceptance and forgiveness.

Again, I am not giving advice or passing judgment on those who may do things the same or differently. We all have the freedom to choose and come to our own conclusions, no matter what the official word or facts happen to be.

My two cents.

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[QUOTE=chunky;730960]I would say this is a bit more than "every theory". This was supposedly the biggest terrorist attack on US soil. I think you have to get the details 100%. If my house explodes while I'm at work, I know there will be a thorough investigation into why it happened and i imagine the investigator would not be hindered in the investigation. 9/11 should of been the most thorough investigation in American History and answered all the questions.[/QUOTE]

I think your attitude is a bit naive in always expecting the truth. Even officials whose job is to do public service act in their own interest from time to time. You do know that the "winners" write history as it would be to their liking. Since the terrorists died on 9/11 those who live on get to write the history to their own liking, not necessarily how it exactly happened. If it is somehow to the Bush Administration's advantage to describe events the way they did, then that is naturally how they will do it. Same goes for the 9/11 Commission (Congress basically). Each body assigned to do a task will do so as they see fit, not necessarily how you might like them to in a perfect world with the facts all lying in front of the investigators just to be picked up like a bunch of dropped coins.

Per your example, if the official charged with investigating your blown up house has a brother-in-law who is chief financial officer of the small insurance company your house happens to be insured with, the official may determine a cause that is not covered by your insurance policy. I say this not to promote more conspiracy, but just to demonstrate that the world is not a neutral field with referees and honest players on the field. The world is full of self-interested individuals and it shouldn't surprise us one bit when they happen to act in their own self-interest, [I]even when they are supposed to have the public interest as central to their duties.[/I] On earth people manipulate. Maybe on a different planet this is not so, but I know when I am on earth that this is how it is. Period.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Chunky, are you satisfied with the way the King's Cross (subway bombing) investigation was handled and the conclusions they came to?

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=chunky;730960]I would say this is a bit more than "every theory". This was supposedly the biggest terrorist attack on US soil. I think you have to get the details 100%. If my house explodes while I'm at work, I know there will be a thorough investigation into why it happened and i imagine the investigator would not be hindered in the investigation. 9/11 should of been the most thorough investigation in American History and answered all the questions.[/quote]

"The Most Thorough Investigation in American History" need not include interviewing a bunch of people that didn't actually witness the event but who spent their days, hanging around the asylum, insisting that their "theories" (using that term in the loosest possible sense) be given credence notwithstanding that they contradict the overwhelming weight of evidence including numerous, numerous eye-witness accounts. The fact that a handful of people think they saw something different than the dozens/hundreds who saw a plane hit the Pentagon is not really all that surprising, given the inherently stressful nature of the event. Studies of the reliability of eye-witness accounts would suggest that sort of result, actually.

Still waiting to hear what became of flight 77 and the people on it, and why anyone would bother to fake a plane crash when there were 3 other planes that had already been crashed, and there was a fourth perfectly good plane that could be crashed.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[QUOTE=toasty;730994] Still waiting to hear what became of flight 77 and the people on it, and why anyone would bother to fake a plane crash when there were 3 other planes that had already been crashed, and there was a fourth perfectly good plane that could be crashed.[/QUOTE]

The passengers of Flight 77 have become property of the US government and are no longer even known by their names. They each have a serial number and are warehoused in a remote corner of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (right next to the remaining Weegers) where the US Constitution has no reach. :twisted:

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=CactusBeats;730987]Chunky, are you satisfied with the way the King's Cross (subway bombing) investigation was handled and the conclusions they came to?[/quote]

Not really there have been thousands of attempts by members of the public to view some of the CCTV footage, not of the explosions but of the supposed terrorists leading up to the explosions. This footage is available under the freedom of information act, However as of yet no one has been able to see it. I also sent the letter in to view this a long with many other people and I never received a reply.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=toasty;730994]"The Most Thorough Investigation in American History" need not include interviewing a bunch of people that didn't actually witness the event but who spent their days, hanging around the asylum, insisting that their "theories" (using that term in the loosest possible sense) be given credence notwithstanding that they contradict the overwhelming weight of evidence including numerous, numerous eye-witness accounts. The fact that a handful of people think they saw something different than the dozens/hundreds who saw a plane hit the Pentagon is not really all that surprising, given the inherently stressful nature of the event. Studies of the reliability of eye-witness accounts would suggest that sort of result, actually.

Still waiting to hear what became of flight 77 and the people on it, and why anyone would bother to fake a plane crash when there were 3 other planes that had already been crashed, and there was a fourth perfectly good plane that could be crashed.[/quote]

But there are plenty of people who where interviewed, the African American that was in building No#7 as an example his account doesn't match the official story, never do many of the rescue services that where there on that day. You say there is overwhelming evidence then let us see it. Because if you think we've seen it I feel sorry for you. It seems to me you would rather burry it and not have it challenged. How many people have to challenge the Official Story before they get the investigation they deserve. for fucks sake they appointed apponted Henry Kissinger to chair the investigation.

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[quote=chunky;730997]This footage is available under the freedom of information act, However as of yet no one has been able to see it. I also sent the letter in to view this a long with many other people and I never received a reply.[/quote]

:shock: This is all starting to make a lot more sense... :lol::lol::lol:

Sooooo, any time there's a terrorist attack, you start sending out FOIA requests to see if you can get to the bottom of it? #sweetfancymoses