[url]http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Nov/06/ln/ln10p.html[/url]

Oh yeah, the draft is coming soon. Hope everyone under 27 who voted for Bush is ready for it.

it's 26. get your facts straight. :roll: liar.

Arguing about trivial little details is just that, extremely trivial. This is a very serious subject, and I highly doubt any of the 20s Bush supporters even though much about it.

They will be thinking about it greatly very soon.

In the interest of fairness, we probably would have needed to instigate a draft no matter who won. I ultimimately blame Bush for spreading our troops too thin, but Kerry would have found himself in roughly the same position, I think.

what about the redeployment of troops that's supposed to happen soon? i forget when it's happening, but it's the first redeployment since WW2 if i'm not mistaken.

btw, you said "backdoor" :lol:

we shouldnt be in iraq....end of story

that would resolve the immediate troop issue pretty clearly

blame George W. Bush and his cohorts

start the revolution in your neighborhood today now...do what you can

lets impeach him

impeach for what? for doing what the public wants him to do in the USA?

all libagoblins and conser-a-fucks want this war. there would be no difference if it was Kerry or Bush. They BOTH wanted this war and so does the public.

end of story.

bah. :RockOn:

Dude. Sacred. You need to take a timeout and go back and read some of your posts or something. When you first started, you came off as completely belligerent. Thats fine really, I didn't take it personally and some of what you had to say was intellectual and tangible so I respected it. The more and more that thread went on the more and more you made your already innately hilarious notions on utopia even more delusional.

As I read more and more of your posts, i don't whether to laugh or cry. With that stupid fu<k committing suicide, I figure its good for a laugh. Maybe its wrong, but as I finished the article, I was practically knee slapping. But after reading your post and your interpretation, I about fell out of my chair with histerical laughter. I guess its a good thing, because your definetely good for a laugh. And this whole "Impeach HIM" thing is almost as funny. So we'll keep you around.

However, if you feel the need, don't hesitate to take a few pages out of your new hero's book and off yourself. No, just kidding that would be going too far, and this way whenever I need a good laugh I can read some of your latest posts. Where am I going with all this?? I think my point is, keep up the good work. :lol:

Re: Backdoor Draft

[quote=LobsterClan]http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Nov/06/ln/ln10p.html

Oh yeah, the draft is coming soon. Hope everyone under 27 who voted for Bush is ready for it.[/quote]

Who cares. Mandatory military service or the draft would fix so many social ailments in our country. It does; however, represent death to American freedoms during a time of peace......so i won't advocate it. But I'm definitely not going to lose sleep over it either.

Lol civic. I'm with you, except I don't really mind if he has those ideas. However, his polarizing statements definitely show the need for some degree of separation between people with different ideologies and a government that enforces negative rights. Support federalism!!!!

[quote=Civic_Zen] So we'll keep you around.

[/quote]

should we make a poll? :lol:

i served already and took my injury with pride, i knew what i was in for in 96 when i signed up. its a shame ppl dont want to stand up for thier country and what it allows them to do....

Thank you for your service Sightless. 8)

Sacredawe is the kind of guy who bitches at the system but has no real solutions for fixing it. Typical complainer.

I welcome the draft. We're one of the few countries that doesn't have mandatory military service. I'm in that range, if i'm called up, i'm going in strong with my nuts in my hand and a grenade in the other. Bring it on motherfuckers!!! I'm proud to be an American and i'll fight for freedom so people like Sacredawe can sit on their couch in their comfortable cozy living room and bitch about America, because hey, that's his right to do so. Just don't ever cross my path Sacredawe with your sniffling banter, i'll cut you DEEP.

[quote=EvenSteven]Sacredawe is the kind of guy who bitches at the system but has no real solutions for fixing it. Typical complainer.[/quote]

Thats pretty much my defininition of a democrat. Not all liberals mind you, just those that veer so far left they're falling off into communism.

Civic Zen, that avatar is what is great about America!

Eat it Osama.

YO EVEN STEVEN

we all cool with disagreements, but brother, please avoid threats around here. dont get yourself in trouble.

[quote=EvenSteven]Civic Zen, that avatar is what is great about America!

Eat it Osama.[/quote]

Pretty much. Middle eastern countries can't even see women's lips, much less two sets of them merging into one. :lol:

Of course thats only the beginning of the freedoms their form of government has disallowed their people. One of the reason's I supported the Iraq war to begin with.

[quote=thesightless]YO EVEN STEVEN

we all cool with disagreements, but brother, please avoid threats around here. dont get yourself in trouble.[/quote]

Are you threatening me? :lol:

Zero tolerance for whiners buster. Zero. Sack up or sack out.

[quote=Civic_Zen]Dude. Sacred. You need to take a timeout and go back and read some of your posts or something. When you first started, you came off as completely belligerent. Thats fine really, I didn't take it personally and some of what you had to say was intellectual and tangible so I respected it. The more and more that thread went on the more and more you made your already innately hilarious notions on utopia even more delusional.

As I read more and more of your posts, i don't whether to laugh or cry. With that stupid fu<k committing suicide, I figure its good for a laugh. Maybe its wrong, but as I finished the article, I was practically knee slapping. But after reading your post and your interpretation, I about fell out of my chair with histerical laughter. I guess its a good thing, because your definetely good for a laugh. And this whole "Impeach HIM" thing is almost as funny. So we'll keep you around.

However, if you feel the need, don't hesitate to take a few pages out of your new hero's book and off yourself. No, just kidding that would be going too far, and this way whenever I need a good laugh I can read some of your latest posts. Where am I going with all this?? I think my point is, keep up the good work. :lol:[/quote]

guess youll keep me around...???

is that a threat...as if you could just remove me at your whim

and if you dont agree with my posts...you dont have to...im no hero...ive already said a few times on here that i am evil

just say something rational if you don't agree...im glad i made you laugh...but i also would like you to think and share some wisdom

[quote=EvenSteven]Thank you for your service Sightless. 8)

Sacredawe is the kind of guy who bitches at the system but has no real solutions for fixing it. Typical complainer.

I welcome the draft. We're one of the few countries that doesn't have mandatory military service. I'm in that range, if i'm called up, i'm going in strong with my nuts in my hand and a grenade in the other. Bring it on motherfuckers!!! I'm proud to be an American and i'll fight for freedom so people like Sacredawe can sit on their couch in their comfortable cozy living room and bitch about America, because hey, that's his right to do so. Just don't ever cross my path Sacredawe with your sniffling banter, i'll cut you DEEP.[/quote]

sorry buddy, im not remotely frightened of you on a personal level

but i am scared of what you could do to others...and ultimately how much you could ruin this planet

please smoke some herb or something...take some downers...do what you have to do...you are seriously a basketcase and need a divergent emergency option right now....i hope you change

[quote=sacredawe78].as if you could just remove me at your whim

[/quote]

he can't....

but...

:lol:

:CrackUp:

[quote=thesightless]i served already and took my injury with pride, i knew what i was in for in 96 when i signed up. its a shame ppl dont want to stand up for thier country and what it allows them to do....[/quote]

Why is it that you that served somehow think that you did us that didn't a greater service? Sightless- congrats for serving our country, but the fact remains that most people don't go to serve their country but rather for things like schooling incentives. Us who chose to go to school or work instead of enlisting aren't less willing to "stand up for their country". Ever consider who funds the military? Tax payer dollars! What about who builds the planes or ships or missels or bullets used in you weapons... it certianly isn't the military.

Anyways to the other part of your comment that bothers me..."for their country and what it allows them to do". Since 9/11 we have had our rights stripped from us. Multiple constitutional rights have been stolen under the Patriot Act. Our country is allowing us to do less and less. We are fighting the wrong people for our freedoms... its our own government thats' taken them away.

ahahahaa getting back on subject, we let ourselves forget who it is that has proposed the draft in the first place- Charlie Rangel (NY)(D) yet we make assumptions and begin pointing fingers just because Kerry made a direct accusation, which happened to be an outright dirty lie. :?

Sightless regardless of whose war this is... you should be proud that you honored and served your country. Our military is as strong as it is because we have an ALL volunteer army. But someday, when there is an eminent threat to the US.. a draft may be necessary. I don't see this in the near future.

... well we have pissed off a lot of people. ... thin ice as they say.

it may be true that the US does have a strong army but it's also obvious it's thinning out quite quickly. the fact remains that no one in their sane mind wants to go to iraq. most of the enlisted don't know what they're doing over there. you can sense it in interviews, in letters but more so in their eyes. they want to come back home and no one can blame them for wanting it. another sad fact is that the majority of those serving in the army are young men and women from low income families and backgrounds, seeking refuge and financial help from military benefits and the ones making the decissions of sending them off to fight are rich, greedy politicians who have their asses covered.

i doubt a full on draft will ever be passed and i don't want to think of the opposition it would have should it be (definitly worse than vietnam). whats probably bound to happen is getting the national guard and reserves (who already make up about 50% of the force in iraq) further involved, eventhough the national guards job is to protect the homeland, not fight overseas wars (not to mention they are not trained for this). i'm sure there will be alot of discomfort in future decissions. as much as i do try being optimistic on the issue the results look grim. the graphic truth? iraq is a puddle of mud surrounded by four walls, and usa is in the middle of it.

on another note, US intl. politics have a set agenda where the president is not relevant. my only hope was that kerry would get more global support involved rather than isolating america like the bush admin. we all know just pulling out is not an option. no doubt that if it was the case, iraq would become a much greater haven for terrorist activities than it is today. The belief that Iran is the actuall target and Iraq was just a checkpoint in the bigger plan is something I've been hearing alot lately which scares me more. Nonetheless, the middle east is going to be cut up, divided & reconstructured right in front of our bare eyes. Continue watching... :Scared2:

ps. thesightless: best double check your exemption! by the way i sent you a pm yesterday & it's been sitting in my outbox ever since..weird.

pss. in some of my posts i seem to be comming off too hard, i appologize if i offended anyone along the way. its only that i strongly believe in my opinions on the subject and can't tollerate this macho approach i've been noticing. cheers~

no worries ... some people need to "buck up" anyway. :wink:

[quote=ftc]it may be true that the US does have a strong army but it's also obvious it's thinning out quite quickly. [/quote]

What exactly do you mean by this?? 1,000 dead and you call that thinning out? Obviously you have no understanding of the size of our military. We have troops stationed all over the world ready to go to Iraq if needed. People are completely overstating the facts on this issue.

[quote]the fact remains that no one in their sane mind wants to go to iraq. most of the enlisted don't know what they're doing over there. [/quote]

I know, personally, quite a few. And even some that are coming out of high school right now who are enlisting. All of them are in there right mind. I have 1 good friend (who is female BTW) who joined the Air Force and is now flying reconnaissance missions now all over (she couldn't really go into details.) I have another friend who went into the Air Force Academy a while back and will probably see action if/when the time is right. In fact, being that the Air Force Academy is less then an Hours drive, I know quite a few cadets that would love it too. Granted, this is just because its cool to fly multi million $$ jets around, but take the kid living accross the street from me. He joined up AFTER Bush declared war on Iraq. Quit watching CNN since there is no way you can actually understand what your talking about, unless you know, personally, people over there right now.

[quote]you can sense it in interviews, in letters but more so in their eyes. [/quote]

You watch way too much media biased TV.

[quote]i doubt a full on draft will ever be passed and i don't want to think of the opposition it would have should it be (definitly worse than vietnam). [/quote]

This is one of the only sensable things you've said in this whole post. The draft won't happen, and yet, its the democrats that used this line of thinking so they could scare young people into voting for Kerry. And people wonder why Kerry lost, what a joke.

we do have our troops spread "thin" ... in the sense of where and how many troops we have placed through out the world.

that i can agree on. :wink:

[quote=Balanc3]ahahahaa getting back on subject, we let ourselves forget who it is that has proposed the draft in the first place- Charlie Rangel (NY)(D) yet we make assumptions and begin pointing fingers just because Kerry made a direct accusation, which happened to be an outright dirty lie. :? [/quote]

He wrote the bill in order to bring attention to the subject. He is fully aware that George Bush plans to bring the draft back very soon. It was a preemptive strike, as it were. If you check the votes, you'll actually see that Rangel voted against his own bill, and urged his democratic colleagues to do the same. [url]http://www.hillnews.com/news/100604/rangel.aspx[/url]

[quote=Balanc3] But someday, when there is an eminent threat to the US.. a draft may be necessary. I don't see this in the near future.[/quote]

Obviously, you are in the 18-26 group that will be drafted. Let's see-- we can't even take over the city of Falluja, martial law has been declared in Iraq-- Syria and Iran are hearing the war drums daily, and you don't see a draft coming? Wake up, buddy boy.

Charlie Rangel is an asshole. But anyhow ^^ I'll see you there Lobster... hope you don't get caught in my crossfire.

[quote=Balanc3]Charlie Rangel is an asshole. But anyhow ^^ I'll see you there Lobster... hope you don't get caught in my crossfire.[/quote]

Sorry buddy, at 27, I'm past drafting age.

I'm also a conscientious objector.

[quote=LobsterClan]He wrote the bill in order to bring attention to the subject. He is fully aware that George Bush plans to bring the draft back very soon. It was a preemptive strike, as it were. If you check the votes, you'll actually see that Rangel voted against his own bill, and urged his democratic colleagues to do the same.[/quote]

He wrote the bill, but wouldn't sponsor it. What does that tell you. You have a conscientious objection for everything so comeon... :roll:

There will be no draft red lobster, get over it.

Re: Backdoor Draft

be glad we arent in certain countries where you are drafted at the age of 13. :DumbAss:

Civic thanks for analyzing my post & now I'd like to have a go at it.

[quote][color=red]Civic_Zen wrote:[/color][quote] [color=blue]ftc wrote: it may be true that the US does have a strong army but it's also obvious it's thinning out quite quickly.[/color][/quote]

[color=red]What exactly do you mean by this?? 1,000 dead and you call that thinning out? Obviously you have no understanding of the size of our military. We have troops stationed all over the world ready to go to Iraq if needed. People are completely overstating the facts on this issue. [/color][/quote]

you've misunderstood me here. I don't mean that 1000 dead will affect the US army neither am I arguing it's power. What I meant is thinning out in the numbers of people who will be volunteering. It's hard not to imagine people will be thinking twice about enlisting with a controversial war underway and possible future military involvement. Since there are facts about how the national guard and reserves make up half of the force in iraq, a loss in future numbers could be important.

[quote][color=red]Civic_Zen wrote:[/color][quote] Quote: [color=blue]the fact remains that no one in their sane mind wants to go to iraq. most of the enlisted don't know what they're doing over there.[/color][/quote]

[color=red]I know, personally, quite a few. And even some that are coming out of high school right now who are enlisting. All of them are in there right mind. I have 1 good friend (who is female BTW) who joined the Air Force and is now flying reconnaissance missions now all over (she couldn't really go into details.) I have another friend who went into the Air Force Academy a while back and will probably see action if/when the time is right. In fact, being that the Air Force Academy is less then an Hours drive, I know quite a few cadets that would love it too. Granted, this is just because its cool to fly multi million $$ jets around, but take the kid living accross the street from me. He joined up AFTER Bush declared war on Iraq. Quit watching CNN since there is no way you can actually understand what your talking about, unless you know, personally, people over there right now.[/color][/quote]

Well this doesn't mean they know why they are there. There is always a group of people seeking to be hero's, or those who get a kick out of being a part of such an army (possibly satisfying their self egos) but in general no civilized person is running to stand in line to fight in a war. Would you?

[quote][color=red]Civic_Zen wrote:[/color][quote] Quote: [color=blue]you can sense it in interviews, in letters but more so in their eyes.[/color][/quote]

[color=red]You watch way too much media biased TV.[/color][/quote]

I try to watch other channels than fox.

[quote][color=red]Civic_Zen wrote:[/color][quote] Quote: [color=blue]i doubt a full on draft will ever be passed and i don't want to think of the opposition it would have should it be (definitly worse than vietnam).[/color][/quote]

[color=red]This is one of the only sensable things you've said in this whole post. The draft won't happen, and yet, its the democrats that used this line of thinking so they could scare young people into voting for Kerry. And people wonder why Kerry lost, what a joke.[/color][/quote]

I'm glad you found some sense. You should also know there are other reasons why kerry lost but that reps blew this up, making it into a major issue. Personally, bush winning is even a bigger joke.

ps. It's good to have a discussion but one needs to always remember we are discussing ideology, nothing personal, so staying polite and respectful is essential.

pss. consider yourself special, this editing took me quite some time I doubt I'll do it again :WinkNSmi:

:lol: Blue and Red, Red and Blue. But the world is orange and so are you. :unsure:

Any way, I get what your saying, but I'm not the one who believes there will be a draft. In fact, I would bet on the fact that there won't be. Thats why I'm not running to join the military. Except I don't think that my friends, and people that I know are just wanting to be hero's. The psychology goes much deeper then that.

As for watching Fox, its all biased. My point is, you can't watch TV, the channel is irrelevant, at all and then form an opinion on how people would be out of their mind to fight a war. :roll: The point is that I know people, who thus, know people. And yet out of all these people (who once again, all have their wits about them) rarely have anything negative to say about what they are doing in Iraq, and Afghanastan. And yet you turn on the TV and you would think there is about to be a revolt by the military.

I do realize we are talking idealogy, I didn't say anything disrespectful did I? I apoligize if I did. I can understand if my "tone" so to speak was indicative of ushering my own opinion over yours, but I don't really apologize for that. :lol: Don't take it the wrong way or anything, but the fact is that I know people, and they know people, so when it comes down I know a lot of people. And it seems to me that if anything CNN has been showing was even close to anything but the absolute smallest of minorities, then I would have heard one of them saying something negative, even if it was small. Whereas the only thing negative is what you would expect "I'm homesick" "Cant wait to party when I get home" Never anything like "Bush is an Ass" "I don't want to die for Iraqie scumbags, let them do there own work" Thats all I'm saying here.

And BTW, I wouldn't run to join, No, because my comment would be one of the previous : "I don't want to die for Iraqie scumbags, let them do there own work" :lol:

hope you liked the nifty layout. I'm happy for you that you know alot of people. I personally don't know anyone serving or who has served in Iraq. But being across the world from you gives me a different window for looking at things. I fully understand the discipline involved in military service. Obviously, once you enlist you are bearing in mind that if a war should break out you might get sent and death is an outcome of war. The moment you join the military, common sense is left at the door and it's impossible trying to justify every order every decission. you'd go crazy. One thing I've noticed is that you always seem to be concentrating on the extremes. What you keep forgetting is that the reason USA invaded Iraq is because it felt that it was a threat ([b]atleast that's the reason it gave to the world but i believe those here on this board know better[/b]) Those service men & women now over there are thinking very hard on this question - was iraq a threat? did we really need to come here? where are those wmd's? i miss my family & kids... Thats all [u]I'm[/u] saying.

I wasn't specificly implying you were disrespectful, only a side note something to keep in mind (for everyone) However you could lower the tone a notch 8)

and that fox thing was a joke.. seems to have flew over :not me:

Re: Backdoor Draft

Well FTC, me and Civic have had the same 'politeness' issue: we all tend to state things a bit harsher than needed to enfore our points made. That just shows we really are into it, and aren't just having some lame-ass discussion IMO. We think it over twice, really hard, and then we state it. We believe in what we say. And that's also what I like about these discussions here: always on the edge, but if we threaten to go over, we back up ourselves. As we should.

Civic, you know we disagree at almost everything, so here it comes again :LoveYou: :

you said you know people, and that they provide you with first or second-hand information, right? I've had the same thing with a friend in Bosnia, but I dont really think that being in the shit means you can actually give a well thought-over opinion. EG: The fact that your friends are in the army and have made that choice rationally doesn't mean that what they see or think is the truth. One could even argue that especially people that are not in the military but keep up-to-date with all the available information have a better or maybe less biased view of the spoils or gains of this (or any) war. That could be you, me, or anyone else around here.

You're very right about the media being biased, that is a given fact all over the planet. I personally think the truth is somewhere in the middle...it's very dangerous to take only one side as your source of knowledge, but it may be even more dangerous to ignore them all the same. Then you'll be uninformed, and I would (for earlier stated reasons) not take the acquitances in battle to be my primary souce of information. Seriously.

I really don't believe there's no soldier that doesn't dissaprove of the war and hates it, and thinks: what the fuck am I cleaning up this goatfucker mess around here? But I also don't believe Moore saying all American soldiers saying that?

Like I said: keep yourself informed, and you'll find the truth somewhere in the middle.