Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

The Big Three have no right to demand that taxpayers risk money on them when even private investors won’t.This is to say, private investors think these three are so far down the well that even long term contracting would not save them.

The UAW and their members are complicit in the downfall of these three companies, and they have the [I]chutzpah[/I] to bang on the doors of Congress and demand a temporary cure to a wound they forced open through...in your words...[I]greed[/I]. Why don't the Unions bail the fucking companies out? If there is a first line of [I]who-owes-who [/I]here, the first pockets the government should pick are all the union officials and then the employees who fought to hang the automakers up on the ropes.

You see, these union workers were [I]greedy[/I] enough to demand wages wildly inflated to that which the market commanded. To turn profits, the Big 3 necessarily had to raise the prices of their poorly-produced autos; the consequence was that this enabled other car companies to make greater improvements in their market shares because they were able to cut costs and produce better cars at cheaper prices.

SO

why not demand 6,520 dollars from each employee and [I]bail themselves out?

[/I]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=runningman;683799]and please stop with the bashing. I thought we cleared that air already. I am not blind. Just as you are not an idiot. so please be polite lets try to keep MS classy.[/quote]

Sorry. :oops: I just have never before seen someone look at a graph of long-term plummeting market shares and conclude that business is strong!

I think the automakers will end up getting their bailout - and will still slash pensions and jobs. I don't wish for anyone to lose their job or their benefits - hell, I wish we weren't in this recession, for that matter. But we are and I'm afraid there is no way to avoid it. All I know is: if we bail out the Big 3, then why not the steel makers...the airlines...the technology companies...the retail sector? The entire nation is struggling, and you unfortunately just can't bail out the entire nation. I think the big banks were a different case than manufacturing businesses, but we've already been through that a thousand times.

But now seriously...I can't keep up with this anymore :lol: I already have like a dozen page-long posts in this thread, and there is nothing more to say. Thank you, go in peace, good luck, and good night!

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=88Mariner;683818] why not demand 6,520 dollars from each employee and [I]bail themselves out?[/I] [/quote]

Most of my work mates have been forced to take a 17% drop in wages. We also have to take 50 days off work which will be unpaid. Which totals up over £6000. They are also paying employees who have worked for the company less than 1 year £6000 to leave the company before Christmas.

It isn't all bad though. They have made Jensen Button the first ever employee to be made Redundant. However they are now saving £400 Million by pulling out of Formula 1

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=chunky;683970]Most of my work mates have been forced to take a 17% drop in wages. We also have to take 50 days off work which will be unpaid. Which totals up over £6000. They are also paying employees who have worked for the company less than 1 year £6000 to leave the company before Christmas.

It isn't all bad though. They have made Jensen Button the first ever employee to be made Redundant. However they are now saving £400 Million by pulling out of Formula 1[/quote]

As far as F1 goes, I'd say that this is an [I]excellent [/I]decision. I'm the biggest race fan on this messageboard, and I am a big fan of Honda Racing (beyond F1, too). But my emotions aside, it all comes down to business at the end of the day.

I don't think F1 is redundant, but it was not integral to thier core business.

Wow, a responsible fiscal move by a automobile company. We must really be in trouble.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

GM dropped Tiger woods.. Does that count??

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=runningman;684161]GM dropped Tiger woods.. Does that count??[/quote]

I'd say yes. That's a start. I'm not sure of the contract details, but if they dropped him, they either had to buy him out or will at least continue paying him for the duration of hte contract, which could be several years.

Also, dropping tiger woods really doesn't get to the heard of their problems.

But, drops of water do add up in a bucket i suppose.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

I chuckled my ass off when they flew in on the first day and carpooled in energy savers the next. that sort of fake determination to "try and make a sincere effort" must be met with an outright rejection in saving their asses with the bail out. and save them from what? from creating even more inferior products? if they cant' deliver, they need to the exit door, not a bigger bank account to offer more failure.

I'm really curious tho (and I havent read the entire thread) but all this talk about bail out money to "rescue" them, what happens when they fail despite getting the money in effect, sinking not only with their companies, but with 34 billion of this great nations hard earned money from the working class. Shouldn't the CEOs be made to return every cent of the millions they milked over the years?

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[QUOTE=Kamal;684221]Shouldn't the CEOs be made to return every cent of the millions they milked over the years?[/QUOTE]

That is the thing that is so frustrating for me about all of these bailouts. The money has been made by the few, but the debts are being borne by the many. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. :roll: Even Karl Marx would find that fucked up.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

The situation at Honda UK is worsening. The company is using the current situation to try and push through Annualized Hours. We have been laid off for 50 days without pay (They Told The Media We Would Be Paid). If we agree to the annualised hours the company will pay us while we are off work. However we will have to pay them back in overtime. But we have to agree to up to 5 months of annualised hours. The company is also not agreeing to write any hours off after a set period of time. If we agree we will have toted up 50 days by the end of March. The company will be then able to force us to work every Saturday for one year just to pay off what is owed already. Anyone who leaves the company will have to pay back what is owed in full. The company cant afford the bad publicity of not paying us. The problem for me is many of my colleagues are so scared of not getting paid for 2 months they will agree to anything. I've told many of them they would be better of getting a loan for 2 months and claiming statutory benefits. They will be taking away our liberty but my colleagues just cant see it. If they side with the company we will all be fucked big time. The ramifications of this scare the shit out of me. Even talking about this could get me the sack. The company wants to be able to accrue 5 months worth of hours and have us pay them back very aggressively. If I leave the company my pension that I have paid into for 17 years will be frozen. But I may have little choice.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

WOW... thanks for letting us in the details chunky. I didn't realize it was that bad over at Honda.. What Union does Honda have?

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=runningman;684961]WOW... thanks for letting us in the details chunky. I didn't realize it was that bad over at Honda.. What Union does Honda have?[/quote]

It was Amicus but they merged with Transport & General Workers Union, so they are now called Unite. The company are going to use this situation to scare workers to sign their life away.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

^^ sorry to hear that...but I'd say that's the unfortunate reality of economic downturns: workers are squeezed into doing more for less, and they live with the fear of being laid off. I probably work in a very different environment than you do, and it's not any different in my company; we've already had one round of layoffs and are stuck with covering more work with fewer people. Who knows what will happen next year.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

sounds like a million layoffs a month.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[IMG]http://buffalobeast.com/133/bigthree.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

your finally getting it mariner... HAHAHA

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

hey, my company is going through layoffs too. I don't know where I'll be next year. And we make good products, doubled our stock price in 2007, and hadn't missed a quarter of earnings in 5 years up until now. When do we get our bailout?

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

I am losing my job in Windsor and we have made money for the last 10 years. Where is my bailout??

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=runningman;686327]I am losing my job in Windsor and we have made money for the last 10 years. Where is my bailout??[/quote]

well, your people are taking a vacation for a few weeks. perhaps they meant for you, the same?

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

eff this bailout... seriously. i'm so sick of petrol right now, and our selfish auto industries initiatives. there is a reason why our vintage hot rods stay parked. :x

meh. lets hope this desperate bailout cheese gets assimilated in the all the right places...

the mass media giant is the one who should really be wiped out indefinetly.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Did anyone see The Money Programme tonight? I'm guessing Porsche wont be asking for a bail out.

[quote=lucky Porsche;687974] Over two astonishing days in October 2008 one of the most amazing stories of the downturn emerged. Porsche, the luxury sports car manufacturer, was revealed as the force behind an audacious takeover bid for Volkswagen.

The price of Volkswagen shares rocketed fivefold, and it briefly became the most valuable company on the planet. And hedge funds that had been betting on VW shares falling in the downturn found themselves staring at losses that ran into billions of pounds.

Now the German authorities are investigating. It has been alleged that the much smaller German car maker Porsche manipulated the market, made a fortune and ended up potentially taking over its rival.

Porsche insists it has done nothing wrong. But for years it has quietly stalked its larger rival, buying up VW shares in a creeping takeover and making vast profits in dealings on those shares. It has been highly effective: last year it made four times as much money from share trading than from making its iconic sports cars.

The Money Programme's Max Flint travels to Germany to investigate how Porsche became so expert in playing the market and how it could end up with the biggest prize of all: control of its rival. .[/quote]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Porsche is still a nobody in the car business.

Oh and Toyota is on the chopping block now as well.

[URL]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Possible-Toyota-job-cuts-as-rb-14138981.html[/URL]

Yes 100 posts on another one of my threads!!! I would like my rep power to say 0 but at least be in the green please.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=runningman;701735]Porsche is still a nobody in the car business.[/quote] and just what is your definition of a "nobody" in the car business? It's only one of the most highly coveted luxury car brands in the world!

[quote=runningman;701735]Yes 100 posts on another one of my threads!!! I would like my rep power to say 0 but at least be in the green please.[/quote] quality, not quantity...lol

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

1. by nobody I mean "not a major player."

2. Gun control and Car Industry are quality..lol

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[quote=runningman;701748]1. by nobody I mean "not a major player."[/quote] Well, sure. They don't make cheap cars for the soccer mom driving her kids around; they make high-end luxury cars for a rich clientelle, like Ferrari and Lamborghini. It just sounded like you were calling a $100K Rolex cheap trash...lol anyways, sry. Back to work for me.

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Ladies and Gentleman Peter Schiff. "US banks are worthless"

[youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOyyRhJRsy8&eurl=http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=peter+schiff&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox[/youtube][/youtube]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Porsche now own a large percentage of VW which in turn owns Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley plus many others, making them the 3rd largest Auto Manufacturer in the world. Last year they made 6 Billion in profit,but only 1 billion form manufacturing Porsche's

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

remember when everyone was crying about the big 3 auto execs flying on a private jet (that was rented). Well Citi just bought a $50 million plane.

Bank Robbery!!! the rich are stealing from the poor and Obama will be the voice to quiet the peasants so they don't get out of control.

[URL]http://www.nypost.com/seven/01262009/news/nationalnews/just_plane_despicable_152033.htm[/URL]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

^ not only did they buy a $50 million plane, but they bought an FRENCH* MADE plane. way to put the money back into your own economy that bailed you out in the first place....

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Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

that is extraordinarily ridiculous... top management should be fired like John Thain was last week.

actually, top management all across the industry should have been fired a long time ago.

that and equity stakes should have been part of the negotiation mix for public funds.