[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
Honda UK are now 1600 employees over staffed in their production plant. They currently are now not renewing contracts with their logistics companies. They are taking control of the operations themselves, then filling the new positions with current Honda employees. Making the logistics employees unemployed.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
what nobody wants to discuss my previous post. I love having the last word. That is how you know when someone won.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;681111]what nobody wants to discuss my previous post. I love having the last word. That is how you know when someone won.[/quote]
you got your last word in after everyone left the party. lolwut?
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[QUOTE=88Mariner;681113]lolwut?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bradly2795/lol_wut.jpg[/IMG]
/drunk
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
tiny insults from tiny men don't bother me.
Ya Fuck those useless Autos'. The big three should be shut down for making shitty cars and the rest of the industry is fine... YAAAAA!!!
[URL]http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,592658,00.html[/URL]
Now what do you have to say??
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
^I say, why the hell should american taxpayers care about german workers?
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
Wow.. ok.. are you 19 Mariner??
The point I was making was to counter your point that everyone is doing fine except the big three. I guess I am really going to have to spell things out for you.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;681551]Wow.. ok.. are you 19 Mariner??
The point I was making was to counter your point that everyone is doing fine except the big three. I guess I am really going to have to spell things out for you.[/quote]
they're not in tip top condition, but they are nowhere near as troubled as the big three. not even close. What, do you continue to believe that in a recession that everything should still be fine and dandy? Businesses are supposed to fail. redundancy is supposed to be eliminated. why are you trying to prevent this from happening when it will happen regardless of whether you throw money at it? You're acting like a drug dealer who thinks the cure to a comedown is more drugs. No, the cure to ending comedowns is to eliminate dependency, not to provide a quick and temporary 'fix'.
Right now, the [I]only[/I] realistic options are for the Big 3 to file Chapter 11's and restructure, or, close shop for good. Nothing else is going to resolve the internal management and contractual problems that exist. this is why I say the other auto manufacturers are doing 'fine'--> they don't have those managerial or contractual problems with the unions. Their sales may be down, but so what? They're not on the brink of death.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
^^ We are. Its very worrying times for us. The company wants to lay us off for 2 months so far. This could yet get extended further in the future. We have a no redundancy policy at the company but I cant see that lasting. The company wants to pay us for the 2 months then we pay it back in unpaid overtime in the future. The union wants us to be paid in full with no conditions and nothing owed back to the company. But the company wont agree. So all talks have failed.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
Mariner it is extremely obvious that you don't understand the power of the big three unions. You can't just re-structure the mob. As far as your statement about a drug dealer and more drugs I ask you why not? I mean the US treasury has turned into a handout store. They are giving money away their and you thin k only the bankers should get it. Bankers!! Those fat cats with their cuban cigars and corporate jets. Jeez Mariner I wouldn't want you running the country that is for sure. You would give bankers anything that they wanted if they just asked for it.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
^ i would rather not spend money on three "we've been failing since the 70's" auto manufacturers and use the money to contract out a high speed rail network. but I would rather not use the money [I]at all[/I].
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
you have been failing because of unfair treaty's like NAFTA and CAFTA. You need to reorganize business methods and put tariffs on Japnese and Chinese imports.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[COLOR=Red]Did you mean:[/COLOR] [B][U][I][COLOR=Navy]treaties[/COLOR][/I][/U][/B]
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
i'll tell ya what we really need to do is, is to slap considerable tariffs on all the multi-myriad's of drugs oozing out of your nation. (a symbiotic relationship so called :roll: )
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;682146]you have been failing because of unfair treaty's like NAFTA and CAFTA. You need to reorganize business methods and put tariffs on Japnese and Chinese imports.[/quote] again, i have to disagree wtih you. I do agree that NAFTA and CAFTA are bad ideas (though i think 'unfair' is not a correct term here) and I would eliminate them, but I would not put tariffs on japanese, chinese, or [I]any[/I] imports. All tariffs will do is jack up the price for the imports, forcing consumers to pay more for products.
why do you hate the low-income Americans???
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=88Mariner;682156]again, i have to disagree wtih you. I do agree that NAFTA and CAFTA are bad ideas (though i think 'unfair' is not a correct term here) and I would eliminate them, but I would not put tariffs on japanese, chinese, or [I]any[/I] imports. All tariffs will do is jack up the price for the imports, forcing consumers to pay more for products.
why do you hate the low-income Americans???[/quote]
Because he apparently has more insight than we do and somehow knows more about the states than we do.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
no you guys are right you should just give all the Trillions of dollars to the banks and only give $12 billion to the auto's.. good theory lets see where it takes you..
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;682277]no you guys are right you should just give all the Trillions of dollars to the banks and only give $12 billion to the auto's.. good theory lets see where it takes you..[/quote] Look, here's how this bailout shit should work:
As a society, you should structure things in such a way that you never have to bail anything out - ever. Bailouts are a failure of society.
If you failed to do that and shit hits the fan, [B]you bail out [U]ONLY[/U] bail out organizations that are critical to the [I]structural survival[/I] of the market-based system - without whom markets will shut down because capital will not move, borrowers won't be able to find lenders, etc.[/B] And yes, that means select major banks, even though you don't understand what they do. You let all your banks fail, you get the Great Depression all over again.
[B]You do not bail out any. other. company.[/B] It's already a sin that you had to bail out some of the banks. No more. The fucking auto companies get nothing. The airlines - nada. The construction companies don't get dick. You follow?
A bailout is not intended to stop a recession or stop people from being laid off; it is only intended to prevent a recession from becoming a decade-long depression due to the arguments listed above, and it should be used as little as possible. Beyond that, you can only let market forces restructure things as necessary. Bad businesses should fail. Assets that can be better utilized by another party should be sold in the open market. Losses on bad investments should be realized. It hurts for a while, but that's the only way to set things right and lay the foundation for sustained future growth.
If you bail out everyone and his brother, then you end up with a big fucking budget deficit and the same problems for the next generation to bail out again in the next economic cycle.
End of story.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
Something tells me we are heading for a Great Depression anyway. My company has never made anyone redundent in sixty years. Today they are asking for voluntary redundancy's.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
Interview with UAW president
[URL]http://greatscat.com/2008/11/gettlefinger-responds-to-mittens.html[/URL]
He just bashes Romney.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
^ of course he's going to bash Romney. He can't take responsibility for the consequences of his actions.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
oh but the financial sector is. AIG can have another $500,000 party soon when they get another $80 billion. Hmm Insurance or millions of peoples jobs formerly knows as the mob??
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;682501]oh but the financial sector is. AIG can have another $500,000 party soon when they get another $80 billion. Hmm Insurance or millions of peoples jobs formerly knows as the mob??[/quote]
do you have Miroslav on block?
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
no I think he finally realized he was wrong and is keeping his head in the sand.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;682514]no I think he finally realized he was wrong and is keeping his head in the sand.[/quote] First of all, I'm not wrong. And I don't have anything to hide anywhere, anytime.
Second of all, what the AIG execs did at their expensive meeting was stupid and should be grounds for punishment; but it has absolutely nothing to do with the basic argument that key financial institutions cannot be allowed to fail because it freezes liquidity in [I]all[/I] important economic markets. This is Economics 101. If you don't understand this point, then you probably have no idea why banks even exist in the first place.
Third, why don't you open your eyes and read what I wrote on page four. I'll go ahead and quote myself here for your convenience:
[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63130&page=4"][B]http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63130&page=4[/B][/URL] [quote]Look, here's how this bailout shit should work:
As a society, you should structure things in such a way that you never have to bail anything out - ever. Bailouts are a failure of society.
If you failed to do that and shit hits the fan, [B]you bail out [U]ONLY[/U] bail out organizations that are critical to the [I]structural survival[/I] of the market-based system - without whom markets will shut down because capital will not move, borrowers won't be able to find lenders, etc.[/B] And yes, that means select major banks, even though you don't understand what they do. You let all your banks fail, you get the Great Depression all over again.
[B]You do not bail out any. other. company.[/B] It's already a sin that you had to bail out some of the banks. No more. The fucking auto companies get nothing. The airlines - nada. The construction companies don't get dick. You follow?
A bailout is not intended to stop a recession or stop people from being laid off; it is only intended to prevent a recession from becoming a decade-long depression due to the arguments listed above, and it should be used as little as possible. Beyond that, you can only let market forces restructure things as necessary. Bad businesses should fail. Assets that can be better utilized by another party should be sold in the open market. Losses on bad investments should be realized. It hurts for a while, but that's the only way to set things right and lay the foundation for sustained future growth.
If you bail out everyone and his brother, then you end up with a big fucking budget deficit and the same problems for the next generation to bail out again in the next economic cycle.
End of story.[/quote]
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
HAHAHAHA... that was fast
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
^^ I wrote that big quoted text at like 4 am this morning. I suggest you actually read it, consider it, and perhaps post a response relevant to the logic presented. I know I can't make you read it and get it, but there it is in case you change your mind. That's all I can do.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
so Auto executives had until today to give Congress a laid out plan on how they will come back from the dead.
according to headlines, the only thing they could come up with is selling jets and working for $1. =\ doesnt sound like a detailed plan to me.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
^^^But the banks had a plan right?? No they don't I will answer it for you.
This is me answering your 4 points to success
Point 1. I agree
Point 2. I disagree whole heatedly. You see this is the fundamental difference between us and I thank you for pointing this out. You believe that banks make the society where I believe that the mob makes the society (you should read more about the US history even though I know you are Soviet at heart;)). I am saying that yes banks are critical but how can you say that banks (even though they just highway robbed you country by faulty lending practices) get Trillions of dollars but the big 3 that employ 10% of your workforce that they shouldn't get $25 Billion??? I mean that wasn't the attitude Washington had when he was fighting the Brits. I mean shit Jefferson warned you guys about this exact moment in history. Also what kind of shape will your banks be in when 30 million people default on their homes and foreclose?
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -
Thomas Jefferson--
Doesn't that kind of sound like what is happening here?? I mean the Fed has been in action since when 1913!?!?!? So there goes the first line in his quote. The rest is what is happening here.
I strongly urge you to read what I wrote and try (even though I am sure it is hard) to think about the big picture. Think a couple steps down the road not just the immediate.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;682908]You see this is the fundamental difference between us and I thank you for pointing this out. You believe that banks make the society where I believe that the mob makes the society (you should read more about the US history even though I know you are Soviet at heart;)).[/quote] Do you mean the mob as in organized crime? They're so small on the scale of relevance when it comes to drivers of the global economic meltdown and recovery that they're not even worth talking about. And I'm so Soviet at heart...except that you're the one who wants to expand the government bailouts to the car companies and God only knows who else. I don't want to expand the bailouts any further. Those whose survival is absolutely essential to the market economy infrastructure are the only ones who should get them. Extending bailouts based on what "the mob" wants or threatens is poor economic policy.
[quote=runningman;682908]the big 3 that employ 10% of your workforce[/quote] Well, I'm no expert on it, but according to this article: [quote]The US auto companies directly employ 355,000 workers, and another 4.5 million Americans are indirectly supported by the industry, according to a letter sent to US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson by six governors on Friday. [B]Total auto employment amounts to 3.3 percent of the US civilian workforce[/B] and more than 36 percent of the US manufacturing workforce.[/quote] [URL]http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1103/p01s02-usec.html[/URL]
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
no you just want to hand every penny over to the banks and that is the difference between us.. thinking of hungry babies around Christmas bothers me but it doesn't seem to bother you at all as long as bankers have their money who cares right?? Please don't give me the lending bullshit anymore it is so played out by every media outlet right now. Show me one example in history where money has trickled down when starting at the top with bankers?? They would be better off letting the banks fail and starting over so this doesn't happen again. You are under the impression that if we keep giving the banks money we will avoid a complete systemic meltdown. [COLOR=Lime][B]Remember we aren't in this crisis because of car companies. We are in this crisis because of bankers.[/B][/COLOR]
Well you are forgetting one MAJOR piece of the puzzle which is security. When millions of US families are broke, out of a job and bored they usually turn to crime (human instinct).
Again you haven't answered my question about what do we do with the banks when the unemployment rises and foreclosures go up?? I know why you don't want to answer it. Probably because your answer will be "Well lets just keep giving the banks more money so we can get through this economic crisis." Where does it stop.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
i think banks are way more important than what you point out man, lets just remind ourselves that banks practically control the flow of money, lets say you owe your house, have a shit load of credit cards(wich is the state in wich 90% of american are) if the banks are not bailed out i could see a shit storm that would just bring the US to its knees, i would bet that more than 60% of americans are in debt one way or the other.
I really doubt the automakers would go out of business, they might cut down on jobs, and produce less shitty cars, but i hightly doubt they would just dissapear.
I really dont agree with bailing out anybody, but shit, this is something that needs to be done.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
I'll preface this by saying that I don't know the answer and that this is an actual question, not a point disguised as a question:
For those of you that are against the bailout, what becomes of the large number -- I don't know what the number is, but it has to be well into the hundreds of thousands -- of workers employed by US automakers? That's an enormous number of suddenly unemployed people, and I have to imagine that that would have larger economic consequences.
Were it not for them, I wouldn't hesitate to just let the automakers fail. That's a significant enough number of people, though, that I would expect a ripple effect that we're all going to feel.
Thoughts?
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;683006]Please don't give me the lending bullshit anymore it is so played out by every media outlet right now. Show me one example in history where money has trickled down when starting at the top with bankers??[/quote] It's funny you say that, because I guess you didn't realize that [I]virtually all money[/I] that's out there trickles down starting at the top with bankers. I know we've been through this at least half a dozen times, so for the last time:
No banks = no businesses get financing and nobody gets a paycheck = a ton of businesses go bankrupt (including the Big 3) = a ton of people lose their jobs = a ton of people stop spending = more businesses go bankrupt = we all lose our savings = WE'RE FUCKED.
And the reason you hear so much about lending and borrowing is because it just happens to be [I]the[/I] essential function of banks, and also the lifeblood of our economic systemthat enables our modern way of life. Here's the parallel version to the one up above:
No investing/lending and no consuming/borrowing = no economic growth = WE'RE FUCKED.
There. Can't put it any simpler than that. If you still think I just made it all up, then...I guess that's that. [quote=runningman;683006]They would be better off letting the banks fail and starting over so this doesn't happen again.[/quote] Not really. See above.
[quote=runningman;683006]Well you are forgetting one MAJOR piece of the puzzle which is security. When millions of US families are broke, out of a job and bored they usually turn to crime (human instinct).[/quote] No one is forgetting crime; it's perfectly obvious. Crime is going to skyrocket [I]no matter what we do[/I]. Even if we bail out the automakers, what do you think is going to happen to all the other companies in this nation? They're all doing poorly and they will lay off millions in 2009. There's no way to avoid it.
[quote=runningman;683006]Again you haven't answered my question about what do we do with the banks when the unemployment rises and foreclosures go up??[/quote] I'll answer it now. It is a very concerning scenario, and it's very bad for banks and more importantly for the broader economy. And it's already happening. Obviously, economic recovery does not rest solely with the banks. That's why I don't disagree with other fiscal policy and job creation measures that are being proposed. And by the way, not all banks should survive. I only want the core system to survive, not every participant in the system.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=toasty;683428]I'll preface this by saying that I don't know the answer and that this is an actual question, not a point disguised as a question:
For those of you that are against the bailout, what becomes of the large number -- I don't know what the number is, but it has to be well into the hundreds of thousands -- of workers employed by US automakers? That's an enormous number of suddenly unemployed people, and I have to imagine that that would have larger economic consequences.
Were it not for them, I wouldn't hesitate to just let the automakers fail. That's a significant enough number of people, though, that I would expect a ripple effect that we're all going to feel.
Thoughts?[/quote] You're right, the failure of the automakers will create a big ripple effect that we will feel. It will be painful. I looked it up, and apparently the direct and indirect employees for the auto industry number [I]over 4.5 million[/I] - about 3.3% of civilian work force. I would simply argue that:
There already exists a forum to restructure insolvent companies: it's called bankruptcy. And bankruptcy does not mean that the company has to cease operations - many companies have emerged out of bankruptcy in much stronger shape. The Big 3 are acting as if everything going on right now is just a flesh wound due to the economy and that bankruptcy would unfairly brand them as an unreliable and failed company in the eyes of consumers. In fact, the companies are already failed in the eyes of consumers and are already being viewed by the market as de facto bankrupt companies. You can see it in their low equity (probably would be lower w/out the bailout talk) and in their near-term and long-term bond yields. Avoiding bankruptcy for these companies is to just avoid the responsibility associated with the fact that they have essentially failed now for decades.
Whether bankruptcy or bailout, the auto industry is going to shed a TON of jobs anyways as it restructures to become competitive. It's going to suck no matter what.
If we directly bail out Big 3 instead of making it go for bankruptcy protection like we do other defunct businesses, then we will probably also be bailing out the next big industry in 2009 to run into major trouble (and it will likely happen)...and the next...and the next...and so on. It's bad enough that we had to do the banks; we can't bail out the entire nation. At some point asset prices have to be allowed to return to normal, as they've been ridiculously inflated for the last decade.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
it isn't just 4 million people miro. It's restaurant owners it's retail. Believe me that number is way to small. That is a propaganda number so we don't feel bad about it when it fails and we can keep giving money to the banks.
Also they haven't failed to the consumers!! They have had a couple bad years because of forcing money to go to retired folks rather then spending it on product development. Again you are very flawed in your arguments.
So are you saying that all pensions should be dropped?? So lets fire them and take away the pensions of retired folks. Wow you are one cut throat man Miro.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;683761]it isn't just 4 million people miro. It's restaurant owners it's retail. Believe me that number is way to small. That is a propaganda number so we don't feel bad about it when it fails and we can keep giving money to the banks.[/quote]
[quote=runningman;683761]Also they haven't failed to the consumers!! They have had a couple bad years because of forcing money to go to retired folks rather then spending it on product development. Again you are very flawed in your arguments.[/quote] You're hilarious. You think consumers are happy with the Big 3 automakers? If my arguments are so flawed, then why have Big 3's market shares been plummetting [I]for over 20 years now[/I]?
Collective Big 3 US Share in 1990: 71.4% Collective Big 3 US Share in 2004: 58.6% Collective Big 3 US Share in Dec 2007: 51.8% Collective Big 3 US Share in Oct 2008: 46.5%
sources: [URL]http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Big-Three-Auto-Makers-Compared/story.aspx?guid=%7BAEEA6066-8248-4488-9DBC-C5630C1C17C9%7D[/URL] [URL]http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/06/A01-50668.htm[/URL]
[IMG]http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/2005/01/05/0asec/auto_mrktshare_gfx_010505.jpg[/IMG]
[quote=runningman;683761]So are you saying that all pensions should be dropped?? So lets fire them and take away the pensions of retired folks. Wow you are one cut throat man Miro.[/quote] :lol: are you on crack? When did I say anything about pensions?
The economy is already losing jobs right and left. Millions of people are going to lose their jobs next year, and we can't stop it. So what's your point?
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=Miroslav;683777]1. When GM, Chrysler, and Ford get their bailout money, what do you think the first thing is that they will start to do? They will reduce production, close dealerships, and lay off a ton of their workforce. That's what's in the plans they are proposing to Congress. And then all of their suppliers will lay off a bunch of their workforces, too.
You're hilarious. You think consumers are happy with the Big 3? Look at GM, for instance: their market share has been on a steady decline [I]for the past THIRTY YEARS[/I]. How do you explain that?
:lol: are you on crack? When did I say anything about pensions?[/quote]
You kill me sometimes Miro with your statements. They were the leader in the industry until last year when Toyota took over. What do you think the big three will do when all these baby boomers want their pensions?? You see Toyota hasn't been employing millions upon millions of people for 100 years. They haven't run into pension problems like the big 3 have. The first thing that will happen when they go bankrupt will be is to cut the pensions in order to save money to put money into R and D. Jeez I guess I will have to explain everything to you.:lol:
So whether you realized you are against pensions or not your statements of "let them go bankrupt" what you are really saying is that pensioners should go fuck themselves and the US should loose it's backbone of manufacturing. Hmm maybe all the old big 3 employees/retirees should get into banking since that is where all them money is going.
here is a great interview.
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyO4q3C4f_s&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/?p=6338[/URL]
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
[quote=runningman;683785]You kill me sometimes Miro with your statements. They were the leader in the industry until last year when Toyota took over.[/quote] lol...umm hello: Did you not JUST see the chart above that shows they have been [B]losing market share SINCE 1990[/B] [B](and actually earlier)[/B]? That means Honda and Toyota have been beating Big 3 each year for decades now - they've been stealing their customers. In other words, the Big 3 basically suck more and more at getting people to want to buy their product.
[quote=runningman;683785]The first thing that will happen when they go bankrupt will be is to cut the pensions in order to save money to put money into R and D. Jeez I guess I will have to explain everything to you.:lol:
So whether you realized you are against pensions or not your statements of "let them go bankrupt" what you are really saying is that pensioners should go fuck themselves and the US should loose it's backbone of manufacturing. Hmm maybe all the old big 3 employees/retirees should get into banking since that is where all them money is going.[/quote] Well then, here's a news flash for you: The Big 3 will fire people and cut pensions and benefits [I]no matter what[/I]. They have to in order to survive long term, even if they get a bailout.
[quote]United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said the union would allow General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler to delay billions of dollars in payments to a retiree healthcare trust and suspend a controversial jobs bank that pays laid-off workers. The union also would consider other cost-cutting changes, he said.[/quote] [URL]http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-fi-autos4-2008dec04,0,7325276.story[/URL]
When times are bad and companies do poorly, jobs and benefits get cut. It sucks, but that's how it goes. There are lots of other companies today that are having to fire tons of people, cut pensions, etc. and it sucks for them too - hell, I might be one of them next year...but I don't hear you crying over any of them?.. If you work, I'm still going to guess that you work for one of the Big 3.
Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft
hey sure man. It isn't your grandfather or mother loosing their pension who cares right? Hell they have only built your country with their bare hands let'em burn eh?? I am glad we had this discussion now i know you are a very cold person. Get used to this
[URL]http://washingtonindependent.com/20889/video-the-cold-face-of-evictions[/URL]
My point is this:
[U][B]If[/B][/U] you are going to bailout Citi and AIG you have to bail out the big 3. If you don't bailout Citi and AIG then obviously don't bail anyone out. I am not for bailing out anybody. [U][B]BUT [/B][/U]if you are going to bailout rich bankers that got us into this mess then you have to bailout the big three plain and simple. What is $34 Billion dollars when you are talking about an $8 Trillion mess honestly....
and please stop with the bashing. I thought we cleared that air already. I am not blind. Just as you are not an idiot. so please be polite lets try to keep MS classy.