Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

WOW they are dying to bomb Iran. The rhetoric of the news is that Iran has arrested all foreign media and jammed BBC satellites.. Israel has made a report saying that the protesters will be killed. The CIA is really doing their job in that country right now. You know it is the CIA because it seems very organized- Propaganda and violent rallies..

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[QUOTE]You know it is the CIA because it seems very organized- Propaganda and violent rallies..[/QUOTE]

really?

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

you actually believe that this very organized and violent uprising isn't the CIA even after Obama admitted to the CIA being involved in Iran back in the 50's??

or this article.

[URL]http://www.sott.net/articles/show/128414-Iranian-Defector-Was-Israeli-CIA-Spy-Iran-Attack-Approaches[/URL]

The US and Israel want Mahmoud out. So logic tells me that they are involved somehow. It seems as though they are trying to turn this world into a shit tank. Pakistan is a mess. North Korea wants to blow shit up. Iran appears to be a mess. Afghanistan is a complete mess. Iraq is obviously a mess. What is going on here??

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=runningman;759988] The US and Israel want Mahmoud out. [/quote]

Your logic is flawed - its actually better for Israel to have Achmadinejad in power.

One of Israels finest writers, in Haaretz, looks at this whole issue, and surmises that its actually in Israels interest to have the mad dwarf in power, not some reformer.

But great analysis there - backed up with nothing. Great work as usual!

Read the whole article:

[URL="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1092587.html"]ANALYSIS / Ahmadinejad win actually preferable for Israel [/URL]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

I second Yao in that I was waiting for your rebuttal and definitely an in depth read. I suck at history for the most part but the debates on here definitely helped bring a degree of perspective I'm missing.

Glad the reactor work is on schedule.

[quote=davetlv;759658][COLOR=Silver]First Shipra accept my apologies, not been around for a few weeks, been a b it busy making sure our reactors are all working, just in case you know. . . . . .

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

British protectorate? Really? Whilst the British only took 'control' of what is now Israel and Jordan after the demise of the Ottoman empire after the WWI, after the Ottomans had become increasingly hostile towards the Arabs under their 'rule' during the dying days of the war.

But since obviously you want to focus on the British rule, its under British protection that led to the Hebron massacre of 1929. Its also under so-called British protection that jews were being turned away and sent back to Nazi occupied Europe in the run up to the war. After all lets no forget that the League of Nation actually ratified the balfour Decleration, whilst it was the British who under Arab pressure refused to let Europes persecuted Jews into the land the world had set aside for them. Such great British protection.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Read up on the Balfour Decleration, then the League of Nation ratification.

Cos clearly you have no idea what you are talking about as shown in the following from you.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]You do remember what we now call Jordan was also part of the British Mandate - and was meant to be part of the orginial two state solution. But in reality the Arabs got their land whilst the Jew didnt. Also try not ignore in your reading that the whole frigging area was split up by the winning allies and nation states were created where pre-WWI they didn't exist.

Syria - created by France in 1936

TransJordan - created by British in April 1921 - Jordan than founded in 1946

Iraq - Indepandance granted only in 1932 from UK occupation (after fall of Ottoman empire)

During the rule of the Ottoman Empire, for 500 years, these territories were nothing more than tribal waste lands controlled by the Empire - Nation states did not exist.

The Jews were, in the carving up of the region, offered a slither of land, a land where there had been a Jewish presence before either Christianity or Islam raised their heads.

But considering we were given it, as you say, maybe you would like to explain how during the 30's and 40's when Jews were being killed on mass in concentration camps they were being turned away from the one place the world had said was theres? [/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver] [/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Actually the figures for pre-WWI incorporate what became of Transjordan, where the vast majority lived. Do some more reading before you embarass yourself.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

And its very clear that you get you information from the David Duke school of Historical revisionism.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Indeed, the Britsh occupiers were a foreign people, your point is what?

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Again, read, read and read somemore. Please show me anywhere in the Quran that mentions Jerusalem as holy land? Come on? I'll give you a few weeks on this one, you'll need. And if you find some, which you wont, maybe you would like to explaine how under Ottoman rule and then Jordanian the mosque that was built on top of the Temple Mount was left in ruins. Comple and utter. And how the Muslim world has only started bitching about Jerusalem since 1967?

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

OK - listen very carefully, two states were created, Israel and Transjordan as per the League of Nations Mandate! That said. . . .

Again, for fucks sake don't show your ignorance. Israel offered back all lands won in the Six day war for normalisation of relationship with all arab states, the answer was the 3 no's from the Khartoum summit of Septmber 1967.

Before the 6 day war there was no-concept as a two state solution for the West Bank was controlled by Jordan whilst Gaza was controlled by Egypt. Jordan only relinquished its claim on the territory in 1988 - thats right 1988.
[/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver] But as you're talking about a two state solution, after Oslo in 2000 Arafat was offered everything he was asking for and more and he rejected it. And Olmert offered again last year and it was rejected.

Its clear that you lack even basic knowledge of the area - that aside, do I think Israel has treated those in the West Bank and Gaza well, not by any standard, but my distaste for the actions of my government don't allow me to allow idiots like you trying to re-write the history of the region.

[/COLOR][/quote]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=davetlv;760011]Your logic is flawed - its actually better for Israel to have Achmadinejad in power.

One of Israels finest writers, in Haaretz, looks at this whole issue, and surmises that its actually in Israels interest to have the mad dwarf in power, not some reformer.

But great analysis there - backed up with nothing. Great work as usual!

Read the whole article:

[URL="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1092587.html"]ANALYSIS / Ahmadinejad win actually preferable for Israel [/URL][/quote]

Oh ok it isn't the CIA. Iran is fighting for freedom from the ''Bush freedom agenda.'' Again I'm not in the know with the CIA and pretty sure none of us are. One of Israels finest writers eh?? Funny that they want to bomb Iran because of Ahmadinejad but now you have made it very clear that they want someone in power that wants to blow up Israel.

Israel is going to bomb Iran unless the CIA gets its way and causes a revolution in the streets in Iran. Funny I don't have any proof but neither do you. Remember the CIA's job is to make wars small wars.

No my friend they aren't happy about this at all.

[URL]http://blogs.jta.org/telegraph/article/2009/06/13/1005859/ajc-and-adl-respond-to-iranian-elections[/URL]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=davetlv;759789]Hi Shiva

Hope all is well in Lebanon at the moment!

There is no shift in policy - Natanyahu had to accept previous agreements - and considering the road map talks about a two state solution, how is there a shift in policy? The media, since his election, have made this out to be an issue when its not - even the odious Lieberman recognizes that Israel must follow the road map..[/quote]

Hi Dave,

All is fine here tnx, long time no hear...

Well I donno but that Natanyahu speach is being seen with lots of schepticism from the Arab world. Lets see what hill happen on the ground.

As far as Lebanon is concerned, good news keep on coming in: As a result of the elections it seems lebanon is going towards prosperity, a good one, for the next 4 upcoming years (provided things stay calm at the southern border). Today I heard on the radio that Lebanon is expecting to receive 2Million tourists this summer, something that haven't been seen since 1974 (that is before the civil war begun). The total number of Lebanese citizens living in Lebanon is a bit higher than 4Millions! The Gov declared a state of emergency to manage this huge flux of people; the country's infrastructure can barely hold the 4 Millions, add another 2 and you will have a disaster in terms of traffic jams etc....But the money is flowing in, we have unique nightlife in the middle-east here, clubs, gambling, alcohol, women....so mostly the Arab holidays-makers will be converging towards Lebanon. Most of the commercants, traders, hotels, beach resorts and so many other businesses are expecting to recuperate the losses the had to endure for the past 4-5 years. Yes it is time to breath fresh and prosperity here, got really tired of conflicts. (sorry went off topic a bit)

[quote=Yao;759822]sounds good, just beware of Hizbullah rockets as you'll be within reach I guess .[/quote]

That is precisely what we don't wana see... No wars, but economic proserity! This is why we dont wana see attacks on Iran, coz Hizballah is right here and could turn things to worse and we don't want that.

:D

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=davetlv;759658][COLOR=Silver]First Shipra accept my apologies, not been around for a few weeks, been a b it busy making sure our reactors are all working, just in case you know. . . . . .

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

British protectorate? Really? Whilst the British only took 'control' of what is now Israel and Jordan after the demise of the Ottoman empire after the WWI, after the Ottomans had become increasingly hostile towards the Arabs under their 'rule' during the dying days of the war.

But since obviously you want to focus on the British rule, its under British protection that led to the Hebron massacre of 1929. Its also under so-called British protection that jews were being turned away and sent back to Nazi occupied Europe in the run up to the war. After all lets no forget that the League of Nation actually ratified the balfour Decleration, whilst it was the British who under Arab pressure refused to let Europes persecuted Jews into the land the world had set aside for them. Such great British protection.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Read up on the Balfour Decleration, then the League of Nation ratification.

Cos clearly you have no idea what you are talking about as shown in the following from you.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]You do remember what we now call Jordan was also part of the British Mandate - and was meant to be part of the orginial two state solution. But in reality the Arabs got their land whilst the Jew didnt. Also try not ignore in your reading that the whole frigging area was split up by the winning allies and nation states were created where pre-WWI they didn't exist.

Syria - created by France in 1936

TransJordan - created by British in April 1921 - Jordan than founded in 1946

Iraq - Indepandance granted only in 1932 from UK occupation (after fall of Ottoman empire)

During the rule of the Ottoman Empire, for 500 years, these territories were nothing more than tribal waste lands controlled by the Empire - Nation states did not exist.

The Jews were, in the carving up of the region, offered a slither of land, a land where there had been a Jewish presence before either Christianity or Islam raised their heads.

But considering we were given it, as you say, maybe you would like to explain how during the 30's and 40's when Jews were being killed on mass in concentration camps they were being turned away from the one place the world had said was theres? [/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver] [/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Actually the figures for pre-WWI incorporate what became of Transjordan, where the vast majority lived. Do some more reading before you embarass yourself.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

And its very clear that you get you information from the David Duke school of Historical revisionism.

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Indeed, the Britsh occupiers were a foreign people, your point is what?

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

Again, read, read and read somemore. Please show me anywhere in the Quran that mentions Jerusalem as holy land? Come on? I'll give you a few weeks on this one, you'll need. And if you find some, which you wont, maybe you would like to explaine how under Ottoman rule and then Jordanian the mosque that was built on top of the Temple Mount was left in ruins. Comple and utter. And how the Muslim world has only started bitching about Jerusalem since 1967?

[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]

OK - listen very carefully, two states were created, Israel and Transjordan as per the League of Nations Mandate! That said. . . .

Again, for fucks sake don't show your ignorance. Israel offered back all lands won in the Six day war for normalisation of relationship with all arab states, the answer was the 3 no's from the Khartoum summit of Septmber 1967.

Before the 6 day war there was no-concept as a two state solution for the West Bank was controlled by Jordan whilst Gaza was controlled by Egypt. Jordan only relinquished its claim on the territory in 1988 - thats right 1988.
[/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver] But as you're talking about a two state solution, after Oslo in 2000 Arafat was offered everything he was asking for and more and he rejected it. And Olmert offered again last year and it was rejected.

Its clear that you lack even basic knowledge of the area - that aside, do I think Israel has treated those in the West Bank and Gaza well, not by any standard, but my distaste for the actions of my government don't allow me to allow idiots like you trying to re-write the history of the region.

[/COLOR][/quote]

i only just read this...lol I am in Moscow don't have any books on me so give me a little time for a rebuttal I defiantly see a couple of things that I do not agree with. Like you saying that jews were turned away from Israel during ww2...it was actually the leader of the Zionist movement (I think Weizmann) that stated that he would rather see the European Jews perish then moved to other European countries unaffected by war over Israel. I don't have the exact quote on me as I said I am in Moscow...so give me a little time.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

lol. I hear ya Shiva. My hope is that the will to go forward exceeds that of holding on to old feuds, but agitating groups like Hamas and Hizbullah are very persistent. In fact, prosperity in Lebanon would basically eat away the basis of existence for groups like those because it is on dissatisfaction that they thrive.

The taks for the Lebanese govt now is to show that prosperity and in fact a beneficial co-existence with Israel is a valid alternative for waging war against them. That might deal a massive blow to those assholes that are willing to sacrifice hundreds of lives of other people to make their claim on the ultimate Truth.

I must say I've heard some nice stories about Beirut from one of my closest friends who's an archaeologist and has been working on excavation sites on more than one occasion. Checking out Dave's crib is still on my list, so who knows...if they let me in with an Israelian stamp in my passport, Beirut could be another stop while I'm around there anyway. (Got so many plans for travelling in the next few years...I need a shitload of money!).

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=Shpira;760153] I am in Moscow don't have any books on me so give me a little time for a rebuttal I defiantly see a couple of things that I do not agree with.[/quote]

Who needs books, you obviously have internet connectivity in the mother land.

[quote=Shpira;760153]Like you saying that jews were turned away from Israel during ww2...it was actually the leader of the Zionist movement (I think Weizmann) that stated that he would rather see the European Jews perish then moved to other European countries unaffected by war over Israel. I don't have the exact quote on me as I said I am in Moscow...so give me a little time.[/quote]

Might I suggest, for when you can find a book in Moscow, that you look up the British White Paper of 1939, pay particular attention to the section on immigration.

I would offer you a source link but I'd hate to think that I was feeding you nasty Zionist propaganda.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Mate calm yourself down...for one. Secondly if you use the internet for niche interests you may as well be using a TV set. As for the white paper I read it and the Balfour Declaration...the white paper was written in 1939 when the British realized that the aim of the Zionists would soon de-facto become a reality through immigration. The British had never imagined that the Arabs would become a minority in their own land...and anyway soon after the end of WW2 the british gave up control over Israel/Palestine because they did not want to endanger their relationship with the US and their intersts in the middle east over something as unimportant to them as Israel.

Unlike Britain the US political system is a lot more prone to lobbying + it became clear to all Zionists during and post WW2 that the global balance of power had shifted from the UK to the US.

I know my history well enough to know whats propaganda and whats not so have no fear. Furthermore I have no personal feelings to cloud my opinions when evaluating sources.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote][COLOR=Silver]British protectorate? Really? Whilst the British only took 'control' of what is now Israel and Jordan after the demise of the Ottoman empire after the WWI, after the Ottomans had become increasingly hostile towards the Arabs under their 'rule' during the dying days of the war.[/COLOR][/quote]the reason the Ottomans became hostile to Arabs was precisely because the Arabs were promised things by the British and decided to help in the War...ever heard of Lawrence of Arabia?

[quote][COLOR=Silver]But since obviously you want to focus on the British rule, its under British protection that led to the Hebron massacre of 1929. Its also under so-called British protection that jews were being turned away and sent back to Nazi occupied Europe in the run up to the war. After all lets no forget that the League of Nation actually ratified the balfour Decleration, whilst it was the British who under Arab pressure refused to let Europes persecuted Jews into the land the world had set aside for them. Such great British protection.[/COLOR][/quote]My point was that the British had allowed the sittuation to escalate beyond control. As for the "world" setting aside the land thats pure bollocks the "world" didn't give two shits and had enough problems of its own to deal with to think of some middle eastern nation.

As for broken promises what about the promises made to the Arabs to win their support in the War??? Self Determination...ever heard of that? or Woodrow Willsons fourteen points?

[quote][COLOR=Silver]You do remember what we now call Jordan was also part of the British Mandate - and was meant to be part of the orginial two state solution. But in reality the Arabs got their land whilst the Jew didnt. Also try not ignore in your reading that the whole frigging area was split up by the winning allies and nation states were created where pre-WWI they didn't exist.

Syria - created by France in 1936

TransJordan - created by British in April 1921 - Jordan than founded in 1946

Iraq - Indepandance granted only in 1932 from UK occupation (after fall of Ottoman empire)

During the rule of the Ottoman Empire, for 500 years, these territories were nothing more than tribal waste lands controlled by the Empire - Nation states did not exist.[/COLOR][/quote]Yeah but who lived there Jews or Arabs? What do you exect? Just because the population living there had no nation states it means that its okay for another group of people to come in and take their land and say now this our state?? The reason why they didn't have states was because they had been part of the Ottoman Empire. Look at europe after the fall of the Ottomans there were wars and borders followed, the Middle East however went from one Empire into the hands of another so they couldn't really decide their own fate.

[quote][COLOR=Silver]But considering we were given it, as you say, maybe you would like to explain how during the 30's and 40's when Jews were being killed on mass in concentration camps they were being turned away from the one place the world had said was theres?[/COLOR][/quote]Again you say "the world had said" I really don't know what you are referring to there...no one said and no one had the right to say apart from the people living there at the time.

P.S. Just read your whole post and it really doesn't require a reply Fuck off mate your a fucking idiot and you really do not deserve a reply. I am trying to have a civilized discussion with you but it seems that you are incapable of that so I will end my argument with you. The only thing I regret is trying to have a debate with a nationalist bigot. Have a good life!

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Little children who try debate need to do so with real facts, you have failed as my previous post has proven - and your ultimate response is to end with a personal attack against me.

Nice one - really shows you want to debate - what you want to do is to use these pages to post historical lies and half truths and when you were picked up on them you went running. Pathetic.

In your own words:

[QUOTE]Fuck off mate your a fucking idiot[/QUOTE]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

I am still here but to personal attacks I respond with equal measure.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=Yao;760159]lol. I hear ya Shiva. My hope is that the will to go forward exceeds that of holding on to old feuds, but agitating groups like Hamas and Hizbullah are very persistent. In fact, prosperity in Lebanon would basically eat away the basis of existence for groups like those because it is on dissatisfaction that they thrive.

The taks for the Lebanese govt now is to show that prosperity and in fact a beneficial co-existence with Israel is a valid alternative for waging war against them. That might deal a massive blow to those assholes that are willing to sacrifice hundreds of lives of other people to make their claim on the ultimate Truth.

I must say I've heard some nice stories about Beirut from one of my closest friends who's an archaeologist and has been working on excavation sites on more than one occasion. Checking out Dave's crib is still on my list, so who knows...if they let me in with an Israelian stamp in my passport, Beirut could be another stop while I'm around there anyway. (Got so many plans for travelling in the next few years...I need a shitload of money!).[/quote]

Yes, Beirut is REALLY a nice capital, when it is a peace around here. The Lebanese people are really nice, a huge mix of mentalities and cultures, very educated people, speak so many languages...but when it comes to politix I feel they are DUMP. Coz UNITY is what holds this melting pot together, what makes this country so magic and it seems some are not understanding that yet. Maybe they need another 20 or 30 years of civil war to figure that out...

I have lived in many west European capitals, have been to most of them: Beirut beats them all, by miles!

The beauty is not only in its infrastructure, but also in its people, and Lebanon has both to offer....(when at peace). Yes it is a very interesting touristic destination to be... I mean I came here as a tourist, 16 years later I am still here and that says it all. Now I am even more Lebanese than the real Lebanese... :D

With a stamp of Israel you cannot enter Lebanon, that much I know and sure of it. But I had heard that the Israeli visa is now released on a separate paper, doesn't come anymore through a stamp on the passport, precisely for reasons like this. or am I wrong, Dave? Yao, you wana come here you need to change passport, get a new one and the issue is solved....and you can consider u have a friend here.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Oh I missed the 2 posts above mine.....no

PLEASE GUYS, LETS KEEP THIS CLEAN, NO PERSONAL OFFENSES...or it doesn't make sense to participate in a debate.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=Shiva;760406] With a stamp of Israel you cannot enter Lebanon, that much I know and sure of it. But I had heard that the Israeli visa is now released on a separate paper, doesn't come anymore through a stamp on the passport, precisely for reasons like this. or am I wrong, Dave? Yao, you wana come here you need to change passport, get a new one and the issue is solved....and you can consider u have a friend here.[/quote]

As usual my friend you are correct.

When entering Israeli it is acceptable to ask for a stamp not to be in your passport - I don't know who they arrange it, but we understand the fact that some countries cause problems for visitor with our stamps in them.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Politics is never impersonal, that much has become clear to me in the past years. Most important thing is that you're able to clear the sheet when the discussion is done and have a beer together ;).

Good thing that Israel issues it's visas on separate papers, it's such a shame that any connection with them makes one an unwanted guest in the surrounding countries. I wonder if would be easier to first check out Beirut and then got to Israel...do they have the same policy or would it be different?

And thanks for the offer Shiv, I'll keep it in mind if I decide to take the Middle-East option...same goes for both you and Dave whenever you make it to The Netherlands.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRwUZ-u6KFo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Fthe-cias-iranian-plan%2F&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Here this explains it.

"I sung myself the National Anthem...":puke2:

Funny that Lisa Ling doesnt seem to get the same attection as this Iranian journalst. Lisa Ling is fucked now with this Iran problem. 12 Years hard labor.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[quote=davetlv;760527]I don't know who they arrange it, but we understand the fact that some countries cause problems for visitor with our stamps in them.[/quote]

yes this is true, very often we have inspectors flying all over the world to inspect ships and some of them have stated that consulates of certain countries ask for additional documentary evidence after seeing an Isreali stamp in their passports. Rubbish if you ask me.

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Ah, the old bullying trick...

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

The warlord has spoken. Strap on your boots boys.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkQ1iNHEGW8[/YOUTUBE]

Now you know why it is getting so much coverage.