Break news.....

[IMG]http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4381/palinwinsdebatevm0.jpg[/IMG]

Re: VP Debate Thread

if the basis for judgment is who can show up and look cuter in a skirt.

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=Miroslav;654997]if the basis for judgment is who can show up and look cuter in a skirt.[/quote]

then obama wins... (yeah i know he's not in the debate, but he'll show up)

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=shosh;655009]then obama wins... (yeah i know he's not in the debate, but he'll show up)[/quote]

That would be ok with me. Skirt or not, I'd rather face the prospect of Obama in the presidential chair for 2 terms than her for even 5 minutes :lol:

Re: VP Debate Thread

Interesting comment I just read over at BeliefNet (dont' ask why I was there)

[QUOTE]Revenge is a dish best served cold. In 2000, religious conservatives torpedoed John McCain. In fact, he called them "agents of intolerance." He now exacts revenge on them by selecting one of them as his running mate, a choice that made them ecstatic. Selecting Sarah Palin changed religious conservatives from indifferent to enthusiastic McCain supporters overnight. His choice gave them the opportunity to display their shallow grasp of reality. He was unlikely to win this election anyway, so he chose to lose in a way that will make it harder for religious conservatives to be taken very seriously for a long time.[/QUOTE]

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=shosh;655009]then obama wins... (yeah i know he's not in the debate, but he'll show up)[/quote]

does obama wear a skirt? Pics or STFU plz.

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=88mariner;655015]interesting comment i just read over at beliefnet (dont' ask why i was there)[/quote]

+1

Re: VP Debate Thread

Tell you what, as this thing gets closer, I'm really curious to see what happens. If the same Palin shows up that spoke with Katie Couric, it's going to be an epic fail, but that can't possibly happen, can it? We've seen how bad she can be, but I just can't imagine that we would really be treated to something that dreadful at a national debate.

Surely they have a plan for her. I hear through the grapevine that she's supposed to stay on the attack pretty much the whole time, although I don't know if that means she'll be setting her sights primarily on Biden or Obama. Maybe the strategy is just to say, "fuck it, I don't care if I'm accused of straying from the question asked as long as I get some good digs in." Seriously. Might be better than having her try to bluff her way through topics that we all know she doesn't know a lot about. Better to remain silent and appear foolish than to speak and remove all doubt. I suspect many of her responses will begin with, "I'm glad you asked that, Gwen, but the [B]real [/B]question voters are asking themselves is..."

If you're Joe Biden, how do you handle the debate? I'm thinking his best tact would be to effectively just pretend Palin's not there at all and focus exclusively upon John McCain (although he should probably [B]look [/B]at her, unlike McCain with Obama). Don't direct a single attack her way, don't do anything condescending, look like a guy who know's what he's talking about, and let her sink herself.

I think ultimately, it's going to depend upon what types of questions are asked. If Palin is given an opportunity to stay on script the whole time, she could do far better than anticipated. On the other hand, if she's asked specific questions that don't allow her to BS, it could be a bloodbath...

Re: VP Debate Thread

i think a good analogy here is the following.

biden = rotweiller palin = chihuaha

she'll bark and bark and bark. he will bite with no bark.

Re: VP Debate Thread

I think she'll do better than expected. Not because she will say anything substantial, but because of this:

[quote] Sarah Palin brought something more effective than facts and figures to an agriculture debate in the Alaska governor's race. She packed an engaging disposition.

One of her opponents, Andrew Halcro, had memorized the complexities of the subject beforehand. He was super prepared. He might as well have stared out the window during the proceedings, for all it mattered.

"She did such a great job with just the glittering generalities and filling the room with her presence that people didn't care what she said about agriculture," Halcro says now. "Palin's a master at spending 45 seconds telling you what color the sky is," he adds, "and people will say, 'That's the greatest thing I ever heard.'"[/quote]

Re: VP Debate Thread

lmao, that pretty much sums up how i feel about obama.

honestly though, do you all think she stands a chance? biden is a bulldog, and i think he will just smack her around. he knows more, knows how to exress it, and puts things in such a blunt, common sense way, even on par with bob barr. she is just eye candy, and this time around, i think people are looking past it. the only reason they (JMC&SP) are in this race is the pulpit factor and christian and jewish morals. she will likely throw the iraq war numbers at him and i see him easily flipping it rightr back at her. she will say how our forgeign policy and military actions are beneficial and hje will drop russia, south america, the middle east right back at her. you know he has the edge already when discussing economic factors since all he has to say is "you are republican, look around", completly benifiting on teh facts that neo-cons have hijacked what reagon built.

biden's got it in the bag i think.

Re: VP Debate Thread

@ jenks: I saw one of her earlier debates, and she was good, and very engaging. Big difference is that I don't think her would-be constituents were wondering whether or not she might actually be retarded going into that debate. She's got a lot of questions to answer for people that have heard the "Sarah Palin is a moron" theme of the last few days, and I think (hope?) she might be held to a higher standard this time.

Re: VP Debate Thread

amen.(applause)

[quote]Surely they have a plan for her. I hear through the grapevine that she's supposed to stay on the attack pretty much the whole time, although I don't know if that means she'll be setting her sights primarily on Biden or Obama. Maybe the strategy is just to say, "fuck it, I don't care if I'm accused of straying from the question asked as long as I get some good digs in." Seriously. Might be better than having her try to bluff her way through topics that we all know she doesn't know a lot about. Better to remain silent and appear foolish than to speak and remove all doubt. I suspect many of her responses will begin with, "I'm glad you asked that, Gwen, but the [B]real [/B]question voters are asking themselves is..."

If you're Joe Biden, how do you handle the debate? I'm thinking his best tact would be to effectively just pretend Palin's not there at all and focus exclusively upon John McCain (although he should probably [B]look [/B]at her, unlike McCain with Obama). [B][U]Don't direct a single attack her way, don't do anything condescending, look like a guy who know's what he's talking about, and let her sink herself.[/U][/B]

[/quote]

Re: VP Debate Thread

Don't underestimate Palin -- she's been prepping:

[QUOTE]Palin Brushing Up On Foreign Policy At Epcot

ORLANDO, FL—Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin sought to silence those who have criticized her lack of foreign affairs experience Tuesday by announcing plans for a weeklong, 10-nation tour of Walt Disney World's Epcot. According to Palin, the trip—her first past Frontierland—will include speaking engagements at Norway's famous Viking ride, sausages at Germany's Kaufhaus, and, time permitting, a fact-finding mission to Future World. "This ambitious trip should finally demonstrate that I am ready to assume the vice presidency, whether by standing in long lines at Morocco's Tangierine Café or by sitting down face-to-face with Mexico's Three Caballeros," Palin announced during a campaign stop outside a Chinese restaurant in Tulsa, OK. "All of our neighbors deserve good diplomacy, from the Universe of Energy down to the French pavilion." Palin also promised a visit to the American Adventure exhibit before returning home, adding that she hoped to learn more about her own nation and the diverse peoples within.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/palin_brushing_up_on?utm_source=onion_rss_daily[/url]

Re: VP Debate Thread

Check out this article from one of Palin's former debate opponents in Alaska:

[url]http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html[/url]

Gist of it is that she's the master of dodging questions in a folksy way and has so much personal appeal that no one seems to notice or mind that she never actually answered the question.

Think this would actually work in the current climate? The press' story for her over the last week or so is that when asked a question, she tends to just vomit sound bites regardless of whether they have anything to do with the question or not. With that being the drumbeat, will the talking heads be watching her too closely to allow her to get away with this non-answer thing?

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=toasty;656733]Check out this article from one of Palin's former debate opponents in Alaska:

[URL]http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html[/URL]

Gist of it is that she's the master of dodging questions in a folksy way and has so much personal appeal that no one seems to notice or mind that she never actually answered the question.

Think this would actually work in the current climate? The press' story for her over the last week or so is that when asked a question, she tends to just vomit sound bites regardless of whether they have anything to do with the question or not. With that being the drumbeat, will the talking heads be watching her too closely to allow her to get away with this non-answer thing?[/quote] I read that article, too. I have no doubt that Palin is great at standing up there and looking pretty, being charismatic, assertive, etc. But my God - are we as the general voting public really [I]so stupid[/I] that we can't even tell a the slightest difference between form and substance? Maybe there's something to that in general - too many people have nothing of substance between between the ears, and so they can't recognize it in anyone else. We have like 300 million people in this nation - is there [I]nobody[/I] out there we can find who has charisma, experience, [I]and[/I] substance? It scares me that we even consider someone like this for a major office. As I've said before... Obama: he's short on experience, but at least he can [I]utter a comprehensible sentence[/I] when put under the impromptu spotlight...

Re: VP Debate Thread

As I read more commentary on the VP debate, from both sides of things, it is all the more clear that the question is not whether Sarah Palin can seriously stand toe to toe with Joe Biden and talk intelligently about the issues, it is whether she can stand toe to toe with Joe Biden and successfully [I]pretend [/I]to talk intelligently about the issues. In essence, can she bluff her way out of this. I've seen no one advance the idea that she's actually likely to do well on the substance. Scary, and sad.

Re: VP Debate Thread

[QUOTE=toasty;656733]Check out this article from one of Palin's former debate opponents in Alaska:

[url]http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html[/url]

Gist of it is that she's the master of dodging questions in a folksy way and has so much personal appeal that no one seems to notice or mind that she never actually answered the question.

Think this would actually work in the current climate? The press' story for her over the last week or so is that when asked a question, she tends to just vomit sound bites regardless of whether they have anything to do with the question or not. With that being the drumbeat, will the talking heads be watching her too closely to allow her to get away with this non-answer thing?[/QUOTE]

maybe that works in small-town Alaska but not in Washington.

i am sure one or two dodges will be ok but if she routinely does it on a consistently high percentage (like both of those interviews) she will be bombed for it.

Re: VP Debate Thread

I wouldn't be surprised if she does better than expected against Biden. Despite his experience, Biden is well known for spending a significant amount of his time with at least one foot in his mouth...

Re: VP Debate Thread

I can't wait for tonight to watch Biden rip Palin in half..

Re: VP Debate Thread

^you're gonna have to wait a day, because the debate is thursday night. day drinking are ya?

Re: VP Debate Thread

day drinking cough syrup.. I have been sick as a dog for 5 days now.. I hate it..

Re: VP Debate Thread

This is awesome. Print some out for the debate tonight if you're not watching it alone.

[url]http://www.palinbingo.com/[/url]

Re: VP Debate Thread

[QUOTE=runningman;656925]day drinking cough syrup.. I have been sick as a dog for 5 days now.. I hate it..[/QUOTE]

i have been sick for 2 weeks :(

longest i have ever been sick before in my life.... usually i get over colds/flu's in days but this one just keeps lingering =\

Re: VP Debate Thread

rofl...lmao! you will hit bingo in every response me thinks.

[quote=Jenks;657321]This is awesome. Print some out for the debate tonight if you're not watching it alone.

[URL]http://www.palinbingo.com/[/URL][/quote]

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=ddr;657329]i have been sick for 2 weeks :(

longest i have ever been sick before in my life.... usually i get over colds/flu's in days but this one just keeps lingering =[/quote]

Me too man. I can't believe how sick I am.. i am back at work but probably shouldn't be. It is weird it is like a Flu/Cold that merged together...:evil: It is really pissing me off though.

Re: VP Debate Thread

just got over being sick myself :(

cant wait to see this tonight, i need a good laugh.. i wonder how many times mccain will have to be restrained from running out and putting his hand over her microphone, lol

Re: VP Debate Thread

Honestly think that Palin is gonna surprise people on this one, especially after those absolutely retarded interviews she gave. For one the format of this debate isn't going to have the two of them engaging one another which is definitely in her favor.

I don't think Biden will be able to not come off as condescending in this one. He loves to talk too much and just has too much experience compared to her and it's going to show in his mannerisms, not to mention his affinity for gaffes. As mentioned before he does have the tendency to stick his foot if not both in his mouth.

But on the other hand the Moderator has voiced her support for Obama already and I'm sure she will take the opportunity to hamstring Palin at any given opportunity (not saying that it will be hard tho...lol)

Re: VP Debate Thread

^she's a very objective and informed person. she's merely asking a few questions to both. how can she be strong arm Palin? anyways, that's what you'll be hearing. that questions are unfair.

i think Palin will do fine. maybe even better than expected. i think once people get the whiff that palin isn't all she says she is, they begin to find a loose structure for thier belief in here. stuff like that cannot be repaired even with a phenomenal showing tonight.

again, the bar is set so low that an average ok middle of the road performance (what i expect of her) is going to be spun as the second coming of christ. this is why i started this thread almost a week ago and posted that "palin wins".

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=88Mariner;657450]^she's a very objective and informed person. she's merely asking a few questions to both. how can she be strong arm Palin? anyways, that's what you'll be hearing. that questions are unfair.

i think Palin will do fine. maybe even better than expected. i think once people get the whiff that palin isn't all she says she is, they begin to find a loose structure for thier belief in here. stuff like that cannot be repaired even with a phenomenal showing tonight.

again, the bar is set so low that an average ok middle of the road performance (what i expect of her) is going to be spun as the second coming of christ. this is why i started this thread almost a week ago and posted that "palin wins".[/quote]

i agree with you. although i think the moderator is an obama supporter, i dont expect her to give palin any more shit that she will biden, if only for the fact that everyone expects her too

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=88Mariner;657450]i think Palin will do fine. maybe even better than expected. i think once people get the whiff that palin isn't all she says she is, they begin to find a loose structure for thier belief in here. stuff like that cannot be repaired even with a phenomenal showing tonight.

again, the bar is set so low that an average ok middle of the road performance (what i expect of her) is going to be spun as the second coming of christ. this is why i started this thread almost a week ago and posted that "palin wins".[/quote] you called it well. Compared to her most interviews, she performed spectacularly. She expressed rational thoughts in complete sentences! And I'm sure the articles about her tomorrow will make me gag. Whatever...it doesn't change much for me. Her performance here does not [I]negate[/I] her previous performance in the interviews; it merely adds to the story. And that story is: In natural, more impromptu settings, Palin isn't ready and can't hack it. If she crams 24-7 with a team of coaches for a week or three, then she can manage a passing grade. Hell, I probably could, too.

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=Miroslav;657609]you called it well. Compared to her most interviews, she performed spectacularly. She expressed rational thoughts in complete sentences! And I'm sure the articles about her tomorrow will make me gag. Whatever...it doesn't change much for me. Her performance here does not [I]negate[/I] her previous performance in the interviews; it merely adds to the story. And that story is: In natural, more impromptu settings, Palin isn't ready and can't hack it. If she crams 24-7 with a team of coaches for a week or three, then she can manage a passing grade. Hell, I probably could, too.[/quote]

lolwhut???

spectacularly? maybe from the beginning she came out strong, but her statements were clearly memorized, and she spent lots of time avoiding answering the questions. Ifill enabled her to do this, actually. I give her credit for speaking in complete sentences, but this only makes her about....at the top of the bell curve. And no, it does not negate her previous performances. As I've been reading, she passed a 'pass-fail' exam.

I've read several comments from conservative bloggers about how she had to keep looking down at her notecards, particularly when she was talking about afghanistan. She came off as chipper, warm, and manic with very little substance. Like a cheerleader, no less. She apparently got owned on foreign policy, and barely eked by on domestic issues. I've also read that she was insensitive to Biden when he was talking about his son.

All of this from the blogs, i didn't actually see it. But I did hear her from the hall say, "surge principles", which I have no fucking clue what that means. As stated on the confabulum blog, it was buzzwords strung together more coherently than before.

I won't say much about Biden because i've got a conflicting interest in that department. But I heard that he held his own, and was weak at first; as one analogy went: he came out muzzled, and had the foresight to know when to take the muzzle off. Another person said his closing statement was fantastic.

I dont' want to see this debate, and like i said, i'm only going on what the blogs are reporting. Those who favor Palin only address her in a stylistic manner, not on anything substantive. "warm, fresh, rational." ad nauseum. Interesting. I don't think this changed a damn thing, althought it might have prevented McCain from sinking further. I think from what I've read that independents were probably more in tune with what Biden was saying. hmmm

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=Miroslav;657609] If she crams 24-7 with a team of coaches for a week or three, then she can manage a passing grade. Hell, I probably could, too.[/quote]

yup, so true.

she rarely ever answered the question that the moderator or biden posed to her. she more often than not changed the subject to something totally unrelated that she was obviously coached on.

Re: VP Debate Thread

Palin did better than expected and probably prevented/stopped a further skid in McCain's campaign, but I still think Biden will ultimately come out of this as the winner. The big thing in these debates anymore seems to be who has the most segments that are replayed in the media over and over again, and I can't think of anything she said that is likely to get a lot of repeat airtime. She did well by not imploding, but no really memorable moments.

In contrast, Biden had a few moments, most notably when he took on McCain's "maverick" title, and when he got choked up towards the very end of the debate. You've got to know that they are going to get a lot of airtime, and when you're talking about non-gaffes, that's more than half the battle right there...

Re: VP Debate Thread

[quote=toasty;657612]In contrast, Biden had a few moments, most notably when he took on McCain's "maverick" title, and when he got choked up towards the very end of the debate. You've got to know that they are going to get a lot of airtime, and when you're talking about non-gaffes, that's more than half the battle right there...[/quote]

agree with that also.

i was very reassured when Biden attacked McCain about this lame ass "Maverick" title. I applaud at that.

I think the most airtime Palin will get is when she told the moderator and Biden that she was not going to answer their questions but talk about something else.

Re: VP Debate Thread

I wanted to go punt a dog or something when she threw out that "white flag of surrender" quip. That goes beyond my stay-calm line. That smarmy fucking wink she gave multiple times too, coupled with the blatant dodging of the questions, was easily the two biggest things for me.

Also, props to Joe for smacking down her "maverick" bullshit. It's like I was watching a neo-conservative religious lunatic version of Top Gun.

Re: VP Debate Thread

That "white flag of surrender" is the clip they seem to be playing here. It's driving me crazy !!! She winks:shock:

Re: VP Debate Thread

I thought the debate pretty much went how I expected. Biden is the more experienced candidate and politician and looked better overall. Palin is more likable and can talk a decent game when properly prepared. From the debate and the Couric interviews, she obviously isn't as knowledgeable on the issues as Biden. Her schtick is that she's a hockey mom representing other hockey moms and Joe 6-pack. It's cute, but only takes us so far. I prefer the candidate who's going to lead and solve complex problems we're having.

I'm glad to read in some of the posts before me that no one is giving her too much credit. We all realize that these candidates have already been asked many of these questions and already know the answer they plan to tell us. And they are coached by the best consultants on how to answer the questions and argue. But credit to Palin for not falling apart which the expectations were low after the disastrous Couric interviews. However, she was out of her league for now against Biden.

Re: VP Debate Thread

I did not watch the debate. Frankly, I couldn't give a flying rats ass.

But seeing the clips on the news this morning, I saw Palin do the wink.... and I just laughed because it reminded me of Costanza when he got the grapefruit pulp in his eye. :)

Re: VP Debate Thread

these debates are really nothing more than pissing contests really, so what if she "held her own", is she to be rewarded for holding her own? seriously, take your cutsie winking hockey mum BS and piss off

as someone said earlier, with enough cramming and coaching you should be able to answer questions you know are going to be asked.. I still think the prior interviews where she completely failed are more of a guage as to her true knowledge and ability to hold the second highest office in the land

this Maverick Team crap has to go..

and this?!

[QUOTE]Palin said a barometer for how Americans are feeling about the economy can be felt at kids' soccer games[/QUOTE]

what? lol