Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

^ the little guy doesn't mean shit at this point anyways. and never has. these financial institutions are the backbone of our economy. If you read my post at the bottom of pg 5, you'll understand why there is an upside to passing this bailout.

to addo the previous post, i dont' know what would have happened to wachovia if we were still far from passing this bill. but i know they would have broken apart.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Bailout FAIL

206 yes - 227 no

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=Jenks;655642]Bailout FAIL

206 yes - 227 no[/QUOTE]

wowsers....

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

watch the NASDAQ and S&P500 for the next 2.5 hours.... here we go.....

dow itself may actually die.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

^^ in the midst of a hell of a plunge right now.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=runningman;655583]It's funny that while the bailout is being digested wallstreet is still down 250 (make that 300 it went down 50 more points while I wrote this) so far today.[/quote]

I trust now that you see the real reason why the market is so significantly down.

I didn't like the prospect of bailing out the people who screwed us, either. And there are probably better ways of structuring a deal. All I can reiterate is that complete inaction like this will probably significantly increase the probability of acute economic disaster for all of us.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

The blame game has started. "It's Pelosi's fault"..."It's the republicans fault!" etc.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=Miroslav;655651]I trust now that you see the real reason why the market is so significantly down.

I didn't like the prospect of bailing out the people who screwed us, either. And there are probably better ways of structuring a deal. All I can reiterate is that complete inaction will probably significantly increase the probability of acute economic disaster for all of us.[/quote]

yes. it's going to go to shit really quickly. fuck all of this shit about the bailout 'paying those who made the system a mess'. The point of the bailout is to buy time for everyone to sort thier shit out. And now that it hasn't passed, the time is short.

the psychological impact is going to be huge. the market is based on a positive mindset of confidence...and this is going to absolutely GUT it.:|

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=Jenks;655654]The blame game has started. "It's Pelosi's fault"..."It's the republicans fault!" etc.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to see the voting rolls on this one.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

what a lot of people cant realize is that this isnt a BAILOUT. it is an extension of a credit line from the governement. for every dollar they spend, they get it back in one of two ways. a payback of cash or the assests that are distressed, which the gov't is willing to work with. i.e they will buy up defaulting credit, lower the rate, sit on it and work with the debtor.

this is fuckin terrible.and getting worse. i have already been told to stay at work until corporate arrives tonight..

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=thesightless;655646]watch the NASDAQ and S&P500 for the next 2.5 hours.... here we go.....

dow itself may actually die.[/quote]

!!

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=toasty;655659]I'd like to see the voting rolls on this one.[/quote] 75% of the republicans who voted, voted Nay, and some democrats didnt show up to vote.....but thsoe who did voted pro.

if this isnt the bitch slap to the face of teh american public, then we will never get these parties out of office and diluted.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Here's the vote roll if anyone's interested:

[url]http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml[/url]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=thesightless;655664]75% of the republicans who voted, voted Nay, and some democrats didnt show up to vote.....but thsoe who did voted pro.

if this isnt the bitch slap to the face of teh american public, then we will never get these parties out of office and diluted.[/QUOTE]

hilarious it is Bush conceived and his own party doesnt like it.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

omfg, look at teh title of the bill and the amendments... [QUOTE][B]QUESTION:[/B] On Concurring in Senate Amendment With An Amendment [B]BILL TITLE:[/B] To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide earnings assistance and tax relief to members of the uniformed services, volunteer firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, and for other purposes

[/QUOTE]

FOR ONCE IN THIS COUNTRY'S HISTORY CAN WE STOP PANDERING TO THE SPECIAL CAUSES. DROP THE SHIT. MAKE IT ONE PRUPOSE AND ONE PURPOSR ALONE. THE FUCKING CREDIT LINE TO WALL STREET.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=thesightless;655664]75% of the republicans who voted, voted Nay, and [B]some democrats didnt show up to vote[/B].....but thsoe who did voted pro. [/QUOTE]

That's actually just not accurate. Take a look at the roll -- only 1 vote not accounted for, and 1 Rep. was there but didn't vote (???).

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=thesightless;655664]75% of the republicans who voted, voted Nay, and some democrats didnt show up to vote.....but thsoe who did voted pro.

[/quote]

From the roll call I come up with 67% of Repubs voted no and 40% of Dems voted no.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

i didnt do math, i eyeballed.

[URL]http://www.marketwatch.com/[/URL]

stay tuned.......

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=thesightless;655671]i didnt do math, i eyeballed.

[URL]http://www.marketwatch.com/[/URL]

stay tuned.......[/QUOTE]

Looks like Gold is the only thing going up... everything else, europe and asia included is red.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Its a serious crisis of worldwide importance, and all the american politicians are just worrying about getting their own asses saved in the polls in a few weeks time,

Get over it, deal with this big shit..... american politics sucks more than ours

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

fucking go get warren buffet, george soros, S.A.cohen, the chairs of the exchange, the CEO's of teh S&P top 20... get the congress out of the fucking room adn let these guys fix it.

why are they just ignoring the warnings?

again, if this isnt the main sign that we need a complete house cleaning of these two parties, i dont know what the hell will convince the public. they are watching us DIE, and refusing to help over minor ammendments. drop em all ! get the line done and watcht what wall street does.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=fletcher;655675]Its a serious crisis of worldwide importance, and all the american politicians are just worrying about getting their own asses saved in the polls in a few weeks time,

Get over it, deal with this big shit..... american politics sucks more than ours[/quote]

at this point , stall the election, force bush out when time is due, let congress hold the power till we can sort this out and then these two idiots debate daily, this is so much more important right now.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

thesightless, you're assuming that the fiat system we have in place is a viable one. that it works. it doesn't. it's bound to fail at this point bailout or not. at least the bailout will give people time.

it's the difference between getting in a car crash at high speed, or at slow speed.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

yup.:what

[QUOTE] MARKETWATCH FIRST TAKE [B]House to Wall Street: Drop dead[/B]

[B]Commentary: Uneasy Republicans couldn't stomach massive bailout[/B]

By MarketWatch [COLOR=#a3a3a3]Last update: 2:40 p.m. EDT Sept. 29, 2008[/COLOR]

[B]WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - With a firm rejection of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the House Republicans have told the financial markets that they'll have to solve their problems on their own, without $700 billion of taxpayer money.[/B]

In a stunning vote on Monday, the House rejected the financial rescue package on a vote of 205 to 228. Republicans voted against the bill by a two-to-one ratio, and in the process rejected their own leadership, who had worked for nearly a week to craft a bill that could gain a majority. Nearly 100 Democrats also voted against the bill, spurning their leadership. Many Republicans in the House were never persuaded that the credit crunch in the financial system is an impending disaster deserving of taxpayer aid. Politicians who had cut their teeth on free-market principles couldn't accept the idea that the federal government should back up the banks who had foolishly bet everything on the housing bubble. Or they didn't want to face the voters in six weeks and explain why a Republican would vote for the biggest government bailout ever. Now we shall see if Paulson and Bernanke were right when they said the credit crisis could worsen and inflict dire consequences on the global economy. Or perhaps the plan's many critics were right in saying that credit markets and home prices can adjust on their own, once the promise of free money is withdrawn. The leaders in Congress and in the administration will undoubtedly try again, hoping to write a compromise bill that can attract a majority. But that won't be easy, because the Paulson plan had significant opposition from backbenchers on both the Republican right and the Democratic left. Rejection of the plan means there's no political solution to this financial crisis on the horizon. As it now stands, the markets are on their own. The next six weeks will tell whether the coup d'etat in the House on Monday has created a political crisis to match the financial one. [/QUOTE]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

marketwatch.com is great....

they got a Jack Daniels ad right below the real-time updates.

PROPS!

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=thesightless;655680]at this point , [B]stall the election[/B], force bush out when time is due, let congress hold the power till we can sort this out and then these two idiots debate daily, this is so much more important right now.[/QUOTE]

Hang on just a second there, let's not do anything rash. I'll personally pay the $700 billion (can I pay in installments?) to avoid keeping Bush in office any longer than he's legally allowed to be there -- even if it's McCain instead. George Bush in office indefinitely does not inspire confidence in anything related to the United States. I will swim my ass to the Bahamas before I willingly live in this country with that motherfucker at the helm any longer than absolutely necessary.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

the non-mineral standard does work when those who have knowledge are allowed to control it.

it can and shold work for the following principles.

1. the stock is still held at a certain value, even better, a fixed value.
2. the public investment is what determines market liquidity.
3. instead of a flucuating publicly held asset, the government will be absorbing the distressed assets at a fixed value. and
4. the governemt will permit the workout options (i.e. late payments, extension of terms and lower rate) in order to make the money back over the long term. think of a bank suspending the terms of your mortgage because you were hospitalized for two months and out of work for 5. instead of foreclosure, the bond dirivative your mortgage is tied to makes its money back anyway, just over a longer term.
5. the distressed assets of these banks are less than 1%
6. the stock is held by gov't for a period of time, as the fed reserve fixes the value, enabling the banks to operate with more liquidity, creating the profit, and in the long term, enabling the stock and assests to be re-couped by the banks, and furthmore, allowing the investing public to buy back in to the banking system.

again, this is not a hand out bail out. it is a extension of a credit line from a source who relies on said market for many things primarily tax, and the release of liquid assests back in to the cycle of banking.

quite literally, in the bluntest of terms..

there is no lee way, think about it. you either need this system, or a pure non- monetary system. anything in between has and will fail, all throughout history. since the jews invented banking, nothing outside of communal living has suceeded. this time aronud, for one specific sector of the economy, the government at large must interject. the public, ifluenced by the media headlines, has ran away for a reason not entirely correct.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

@ james

that is why i said get bush out in january no matter what, and allow the congress to handle the affiars, even if its just for two weeks, simply to allow the proper campaigning. shit, allow the canadian leaqdership man the helm. UN, i dont care. i want that monkey out as much as the next. i just say allow the candidates thier due time prior to a forced election day. lets say this drones along for another 2 weeks, do we really want to send this country, the country that produced an election between bush and kerry, and let bush stay, to vote with only two weeks of campaigning for the single most important job on earth outside of GOD> ????

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

the MW headline says it all........

[quote]DOW ON TRACK FOR THE[U][B] BIGGEST POINTS LOSS EVER[/B][/U][/quote]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=88Mariner;655039]I think I've changed my mind on this. I'm still against it, but the utility that passing this bill provides is so much greater for me and mainstreet than whatever tax dollars that have already been taken away from me and will be taken away from me.

And that utility is time.

I'm almost certain at this point that if this bill doesn't get passed by monday, we've got about a week before it starts collapsing in on itself. The baillout buys us time, time to restructure debts, time for the financial industry (the real backbone of our economy) to get thier stuff sorted out. Looking at what happened to Bear Stearns and Lehman and AIG and so on and so on, thier problems had become way worse quicker than they were able to cope with it, where even drastic measures could not help. I look at it as the difference between a high speed car-crash (this week) and a car-crash in slow-mo (Over the next year or so) The difference will be the psychology and its' affect on people (irrational actors as most of us here know), thier response, the response of the financial sector, and about everyone else. If the economy tanks in the week, everything falls apart. shipping and transportation shops. massive layoffs ('m predicting 20% unemployment) occur almost simultaneously.

And ALL of this before an election: Bush would CERTAINLY put together executive orders for [U][I]you know what[/I]. [/U]I did write a thread on this saying just the opposite, that Bush is doing things to push his executive power further, quicker. But I've re-read his speaches and he's actually against all of this, but says we've got to do something, much like a surgeon who's facing a patient that is getting worse and worse. The surgeon can't say 'fuck it, let it die, things will come back". He's the president of the united states, he's gotta do something. And my gut tells me his advisors have already discussed the utility of time at this point. I don't think the democrats understand this utility whatsoever, and I don't think they understand the effects they will cause; but intentions, motives, intelligence, and education aside, the outcome is what matters the most.

[U]In turn[/U], as far as foreign policy goes, things get blearker. Russia would, as I think they will, invade into georgia and other dictators and terrorists groups will take advantage of the situation. The fact is, such a quick snap of the economy at breakneck speeds completely destroys our global security structure. It would be neutralized. I really can't even begin to discuss what will happen, and I don't even want to speculate on the stuff that [I]might[/I] happen, which is exponentially worse.

You all here know that I've been against this bailout. I'm still against it, but goddamnit, the time that it buys us, and everyone else dependant upon our financial system, economy, and security, need it too. It gives people time to shift thier portfolios into commodities (my suggestion). I really can't underscore the psychological impact enough.

To quote barack obama out of context, "preparation is key". And getting extra time is crucial to all of this. It's the most limited resource we have, and the most important one to have at dispossal.

I can't say I've seen this discussion on the utility of time talked about anywhere else. It hit me hard this afternoon after I heard a Bank CEO commit suicide this afternoon, and it dawned upon me the instant shock that would paralyze almost everything and almost everyone.[/quote] :x

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

@ The above statement in quotes.

see............. money does rule the world. right now its asking, nay, begging for chaos....

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

looks like its been rejected. dow is only down about 600 pts...no biggie, really.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=day_for_night;655703]looks like its been rejected. dow is only down about 600 pts...no biggie, really.[/quote]

by your location listed, combined with ur comments, im assuming you live in a hut in the yukon adn hunt food.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[QUOTE=thesightless;655692]@ james

that is why i said get bush out in january no matter what, and allow the congress to handle the affiars, even if its just for two weeks, simply to allow the proper campaigning. shit, allow the canadian leaqdership man the helm. UN, i dont care. i want that monkey out as much as the next. i just say allow the candidates thier due time prior to a forced election day. lets say this drones along for another 2 weeks, do we really want to send this country, the country that produced an election between bush and kerry, and let bush stay, to vote with only two weeks of campaigning for the single most important job on earth outside of GOD> ????[/QUOTE]

ah, misunderstood. My bad...

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=day_for_night;655703]looks like its been rejected. dow is only down about 600 pts...no biggie, really.[/quote]

it's looking more like 800 points bucko.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

its at about -600 now

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[quote=res0nat0r;655709]its at about -600 now[/quote]

i see it jumped back up there.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

glad to see the party leadership is taking the time to call each other out instead of trying to think about the citizens......

its a rash statement.but..

at this point i wish we were more like south asain countries. colin powell and stormin norman shuold step up , ask the ARMY or national guard to get teh fuck to washington and lock congress and house into session until something is reached. if they deem it neccessary to remove their power, do it. put teh AICPA and SEC admin in charge and we can form a new gov't. this right now, is the final sign that our leadership doesnt give a fuck about us, just thier interests. why are there amendments to this bill? WHY? make the bill about one thing and one thing only. pelosi and peter king shouldnt be doing interviews right now, they should be sitting with their contemporaries in the fuckign room and finishhing it off.

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

This is absolutely tragic for McCain. The Dems came halfway and the republicans didn’t rally around McCain and get this passed. Tomorrow, the Dems are going to pass thier own bill and fix the mess in the meantime.

edit: the Intrade stats on Palin leaving the VP slot just spiked. that said, what is she still doing on the ticket?

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

not sure what the exactly closing bell number is, but it could be -689, the biggest point drop in history :(