If you watch the news at all, I'm sure you've all heard the various discussions about Iran's deeper involvement in the Iraq war, its supplying of sophisticated weapons to Iraqis, its continued pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, etc. It strikes me that this all seems vaguely familiar and smacks of the same talk that led up to the invasion of Iraq.

Question is this: do you think the Iran thing is another bugaboo a la Iraq and its vaunted WMDs, or is it a legitimate and growing threat that might not get the attention it really deserves because Bush cried wolf before the Iraq war? Also, are we destined to attack Iran as well?

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All good questions. I think time will only tell. Except I do think we are destined to be in conflict with Iran. Not sure if it will be us attacking them or not. I do feel something totally out of the blue will happen over the next 5 years that will escalate things terribly in the region.

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You gotta remember that taking out Hussein and the Sunni control of Iraq was a godsend to Iran. For many years, they'd wanted to do the same thing themselves...hell they fought a ten-year war with them that only ended after the rest of the world begged em to stop. Essentially with Iraq up for grabs at the moment and having a Shiite majority, it's no surprise that Iran would strengthen it's hand there and thereby weaken our own. Yet another repurcussion of this administration's failure to think this war through. :roll:

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It is a simple fact that Iran is, and always has been, the largest supporter of Islamic terrorism.

And, yes.... of course they are behind most of the trouble in Iraq.

Iran is the largest Shi'ite country. Iraq is mostly Shi'ite. Iran has always wanted to take control of Iraq, and join the countries into a single Shi'ite sphere of influence, smack dab in the middle of the vast oil fields. Saddam was in the way, however. Saddam, a sunni, has opposed Iran.... fought them for more than a decade, and even used WMDs on the Iranians.

The whole world knew that Saddam had WMDs, and that he had used them against the Kurds and the Iranians. This was not in dispute, and anyone disputing it is fucking stupid, blind, a liar, or downright insane. Every intelligence agency in the world said Saddam had WMDs. The Iranians also thought Saddam had them, and this was a deterrant to them. Iran was not about to risk another gas attack in retaliation for aggression against a Saddam-controlled Iraq.

But.... once Saddam was removed from power, this deterrant was also removed. Iran knows that while Saddam just might have been crazy enough to use WMDs against them if they attacked.... with the USA, an attack is far less likely.... and a WMD attack is almost 100% certain NOT to occur.

And so now we see Iran actively working inside Iraq, doing whatever they can to destabilize the region. They want control of the country, and are trying to stir up the Shi'ite majority. They are sending fighters over the border, and supplying them with weapons.

The ultimate goal is to control the country, and its oil. This gives them control over much of the global oil market. They have a new bargaining chip with the UN. With control of the oil, they almost assure their quest for a nuclear weapon.

The world will do what it does best.... sit back and talk, but do nothing. Only Israel will act.... and they will act by sending bombers to blow up the Iranian nuke sites. This action will draw huge disapproval from the muslim world, and a new shitstorm will be stirred up. The USA will be forced to defend Israel, because no one else will. And so we will be dragged into yet another conflict.

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yes Iran will be next..

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I'm skeptical too of all the information on Iran in light of the bad intelligence that got us in Iraq. I hear reports that Iran is supporting some of the terror efforts in Iraq, but are they really? We were lied to once before, so why should we be so quick to believe now?

I think the President said this today that Iran may be supporting terror in Iraq, but not sure if it's the Iranian government. It may be rogue Shia militia groups.

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[quote=subterFUSE;444488] But.... once Saddam was removed from power, this deterrant was also removed. [/quote]

Bingo.

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[quote=subterFUSE;444488]It is a simple fact that Iran is, and always has been, the largest supporter of Islamic terrorism.

And, yes.... of course they are behind most of the trouble in Iraq.

Iran is the largest Shi'ite country. Iraq is mostly Shi'ite. Iran has always wanted to take control of Iraq, and join the countries into a single Shi'ite sphere of influence, smack dab in the middle of the vast oil fields. Saddam was in the way, however. Saddam, a sunni, has opposed Iran.... fought them for more than a decade, and even used WMDs on the Iranians.

The whole world knew that Saddam had WMDs, and that he had used them against the Kurds and the Iranians. This was not in dispute, and anyone disputing it is fucking stupid, blind, a liar, or downright insane. Every intelligence agency in the world said Saddam had WMDs. The Iranians also thought Saddam had them, and this was a deterrant to them. Iran was not about to risk another gas attack in retaliation for aggression against a Saddam-controlled Iraq.

But.... once Saddam was removed from power, this deterrant was also removed. Iran knows that while Saddam just might have been crazy enough to use WMDs against them if they attacked.... with the USA, an attack is far less likely.... and a WMD attack is almost 100% certain NOT to occur.

And so now we see Iran actively working inside Iraq, doing whatever they can to destabilize the region. They want control of the country, and are trying to stir up the Shi'ite majority. They are sending fighters over the border, and supplying them with weapons.

[/quote]

Um, well, according to Drumheller, there was research on WMD's, but no WMD weapons prior to this war. Supposedly they were destroyed. This is only speaking for the last 7 years though.

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[quote=superdave;444494]I'm skeptical too of all the information on Iran in light of the bad intelligence that got us in Iraq. I hear reports that Iran is supporting some of the terror efforts in Iraq, but are they really? We were lied to once before, so why should we be so quick to believe now?

I think the President said this today that Iran may be supporting terror in Iraq, but not sure if it's the Iranian government. It may be rogue Shia militia groups.[/quote]

look at the links that are being played off, everything relating to terror. Saddam kills Abu Nadal over not training Al-Qaeda, therefor Al-Qaeda is presumed to be camping out in Iraq. We're in Iraq now and now that there's really no other excuse to be there other than resources, Iran has become the supposed new terrorist. So now our new fight against terrorism will be the Iranians because now they supposedly back terrorists. I'm not saying, however, that the information is false, I'm just saying we're being towed around on a leash. All I do know though, is that the munitions are coming from either the US or the Russians.

At this point, it's very difficult to trust my own government.

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[quote=superdave;444494]I'm skeptical too of all the information on Iran in light of the bad intelligence that got us in Iraq. I hear reports that Iran is supporting some of the terror efforts in Iraq, but are they really? We were lied to once before, so why should we be so quick to believe now?

I think the President said this today that Iran may be supporting terror in Iraq, but not sure if it's the Iranian government. It may be rogue Shia militia groups.[/quote]

If you are skeptical that Iran is involved in the Iraq insurgency, then forgive me for calling you crazy. I'm sorry.... but no serious person can possibly deny that Iran is involved in Iraq now.

You were never "lied to". The word "lie" means to knowingly deceive another. The entire world watched Saddam use WMDs on the Kurds and the Iranians. Everyone knew he had them. He never supplied proof of disarmament. Therefore we had to assume that he still had them. You can't make the assumption that all of these weapons which once existed suddenly disappeared into thin air. Personally, I believe they have been transferred to Syria.... or possibly buried in Iraq. Saddam certainly had enough time to plan for it. The damned UN wasted so much fucking time, he could have hidden just about anything he had.

I'm not trying to be a Bush apologist here.... but if you want to be honest, you must concede the simple fact that worldwide intelligence agencies all agreed that Saddam had WMDs. This dates back long before the Bush admin.

I used to live in Washington, DC. I grew up there. I lived in a nice neighborhood in the Northwest portion of the city. When I was a teenager, a development company began to purchase homes and land near my home. They bulldozed these old homes to the ground and began to build new homes. Shortly after they began their work, a construction crew made a discovery. They found huge caches of unexploded munitions, buried under the ground. These munitions included toxic gas agents such as mustard gas. They turned out to be old World War I munitions.

Here I live, in Washington DC.... what should be the most secure city in the world..... and a construction worker basically finds WMDs buried under a residential neighborhood. Weapons which had been buried for over 60 years, without anyone knowing about it.

So.... it wouldn't surprise me at all if Saddam might have found some place in the desert where he could hide some weapons. If huge stockpiles of mustard gas could be hidden for over 60 years inside the city limits of Washinton, DC.... then I think it is entirely possible that a similar situation could exist in the desert of Iraq, a much larger and more remote area.

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A better question is who is going to take responsibility here? Does "the buck stop" with the politicians? Does the the excuse "I was just acting on poor intelligence" have any merit? If you don't like who is in government, then vote them out of office.

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It would be a very bad idea to go running half-cocked into a third conflict with two failing ones on the table already. If we attack Iran it is very likely that it will escalate. I don't think our military is ready for such a battle, we are very thin on allies, and you can pretty much be certain this would bring attacks on US soil. If the goal of all of this is to stop terrorism, I can't think of a worse way to go about that.

But it's not; this war, like all wars, is about money. :rolleyes:

[quote=subterFUSE;444539]You were never "lied to". The word "lie" means to knowingly deceive another. The entire world watched Saddam use WMDs on the Kurds and the Iranians. Everyone knew he had them. He never supplied proof of disarmament. Therefore we had to assume that he still had them. You can't make the assumption that all of these weapons which once existed suddenly disappeared into thin air. Personally, I believe they have been transferred to Syria.... or possibly buried in Iraq. Saddam certainly had enough time to plan for it. The damned UN wasted so much fucking time, he could have hidden just about anything he had.

I'm not trying to be a Bush apologist here.... but if you want to be honest, you must concede the simple fact that worldwide intelligence agencies all agreed that Saddam had WMDs. This dates back long before the Bush admin..[/quote]

You are revising history. What we were sold by the Bush administration was that Iraq posed a [I]clear and present danger to the US[/I], [I]and were developing a nuclear weapon program[/I]. I don't think anyone will dispute that he has a few dusty old cans of mustard gas lying around (we sold it to him). The difference being that they knowingly deceived us about the level of threat. Anything that posed the level of threat we were told existed would have been discovered long ago, it was a massive distortion, and a deliberate one.

The Valerie Plame incident is the smoking gun, and even though they managed to make Libby the fall guy, if you don't believe that Cheney et al were behind this as part of an orchestrated effort to deceive the country, "then forgive me for calling you crazy."

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[quote=neutrino;444623]A better question is who is going to take responsibility here? Does "the buck stop" with the politicians? Does the the excuse "I was just acting on poor intelligence" have any merit? If you don't like who is in government, then vote them out of office.[/quote]

I don't consider bad intelligence an excuse for anything. It is simply an explanation. It is a critical fact which is being willfully ignored by the left, in particular.

I think we need to be taking a serious look at our past. How did it come to be that our intelligence agencies around the world were so wrong? And how to we fix that? Those are the most important questions, I think.

Bad intelligence is just a result. There is a fundamental problem which caused that result, and that's what needs to be addressed.

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[QUOTE=subterFUSE;444539]If you are skeptical that Iran is involved in the Iraq insurgency, then forgive me for calling you crazy. I'm sorry.... but no serious person can possibly deny that Iran is involved in Iraq now.[/QUOTE]

OK, these are two different things. It would be silly to "deny" the possibility that Iran could be involved. On the other hand, being "skeptical" is a completely rational position to take.

Remember, all of the information that you, I, and 99% of the populace are getting about Iran's involvement is filtered through US intelligence and the media. This is the same way that we got the "slam dunk" information about Iraq and its WMD programs. Even if you believe that it was a completely innocent mistake, the reality is that that pre-war intelligence was dead wrong and represents one of, if not THE, worst intelligence failures in this nation's history. With that being the state of affairs, reasonable people can and should look at the Iran claims with a jaundiced eye.

There is nothing "crazy" about some healthy skepticism. Indeed, perhaps if people had asked some more questions (or, ahem, paid attention to the contrary evidence), we wouldn't be in the quagmire we're in now.

Actually, isn't the widely accepted definition of crazy repeatedly doing the same thing in the same way and expecting different results? If we plunge ahead into Iran without really making sure we're justified in doing so, as we did in Iraq, aren't we the crazy ones?

For the record, I'm not saying Iran isn't involved. I'm honestly not sure, which is partially why I raised the question. Skepticism, however, is healthy, not crazy.

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OK, compare this:

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;444539]...but if you want to be honest, you must concede the simple fact that worldwide intelligence agencies all agreed that Saddam had WMDs.
[/QUOTE]

with this:

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;444539]Personally, I believe they have been transferred to Syria.... or possibly buried in Iraq. Saddam certainly had enough time to plan for it. The damned UN wasted so much fucking time, he could have hidden just about anything he had.

...

So.... it wouldn't surprise me at all if Saddam might have found some place in the desert where he could hide some weapons. If huge stockpiles of mustard gas could be hidden for over 60 years inside the city limits of Washinton, DC.... then I think it is entirely possible that a similar situation could exist in the desert of Iraq, a much larger and more remote area.[/QUOTE]

Why is it that you rely upon the agreement of worldwide intelligence to make one point, but in the same post, you ignore the fact that every major intelligence agency that has investigated claims that Saddam hid or transferred Iraq's WMDs have found it to be without support? You can't have it both ways...

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When intelligence is based on the word of suspected terrorists during interrogation and not vetted in any proper manner, taking that word is as good as a lie. We expect our information to be verified, not merely rumor.

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[quote=toasty;444700]Indeed, perhaps if people had asked some more questions (or, ahem, paid attention to the contrary evidence), we wouldn't be in the quagmire we're in now. [/quote]

I would like to ammend this one point, the two options we were given at the time were:

1> Go along with the plan to invade, and 2> Like it

There were pleanty who felt the story didn't add up, but there was a witch hunt mentality at the time, congress was railroaded into the decision. To vote against the war was one step short of strapping a bomb to your chest, and frankly I wish someone would have the nerve to say so now.

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[quote=subterFUSE;444653]I don't consider bad intelligence an excuse for anything. It is simply an explanation. It is a critical fact which is being willfully ignored by the left, in particular.

I think we need to be taking a serious look at our past. How did it come to be that our intelligence agencies around the world were so wrong? And how to we fix that? Those are the most important questions, I think.

Bad intelligence is just a result. There is a fundamental problem which caused that result, and that's what needs to be addressed.[/quote]

We all know what the underlying problem was: the Bush Adminstration decided to pick whatever information they wanted and slap it together, all-the-while knowing that the information that they had was patchy.

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I wish Iran would piss off the Chinese.

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That would be cool.

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i wish the middle east would have a relapse of a major epidemic that the west held the cure for. we could hold it over their heads for years, and peacefully force them into a corner. a nice serious smallpox breakout, maybe the plague, and we could all sit and laugh at them and say "remember when you guys cheered in the streets after 9-11? well, we are cheering now fucko. you wanted the dark ages, you got the plague. fuck off. we'll get the oil once youre all dead. enjoy the remaining time in your miserable religiously fueled shit storm of a society. heck, if you stopped killing each other and blaming everyone else, you could focus on your own problem. fuck you bye.

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That would be sweet.

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yeah, but how do you REALLY feel Sean?

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[QUOTE=thesightless;445096]you wanted the dark ages, you got the plague. [/QUOTE]

Did you know that a handful of cases of the bubonic plague are still diagnosed each year? Could you imagine hearing that from your doctor?

You: So, what's the word, doc? A little bacterial infection? Doctor: Actually, you have the plague You: :shock:

:lol:

Sorry, I guess that shouldn't really be funny, but, well, fuck it, yes it is. :lol:

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You: Man, doc, think i have the cold or something, probably should have come to see you earlier, but i avoid hospitals like the plague.

Doc: Funny you mention that...cuz uh...

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nothing like a little plague humor to kick off the weekend... ;)

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:lol: hey if you can't laugh at the black death, then who can you laugh at?

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I wouldn't doubt it if the USA spread a plague in the middle east.. you can always blame third world countries for plagues because the aren't "developed"..

the world would be a better place for us if two things happened:

1. The USA flat out robs the banks where China holds their money. Just take it, its ours anyways. That could pay off the debt and fix the USA.
2. Got rid of muslims.

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[quote=runningman;445355]I wouldn't doubt it if the USA spread a plague in the middle east.. you can always blame third world countries for plagues because the aren't "developed"..

the world would be a better place for us if two things happened:

1. The USA flat out robs the banks where China holds their money. Just take it, its ours anyways. That could pay off the debt and fix the USA.
2. Got rid of muslims.[/quote]

I like # 1.

As for # 2, I'll do you one better.... just get rid of all religious people. Nothing but troublemakers, every last one of them. ;)

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[quote=runningman;445355]I wouldn't doubt it if the USA spread a plague in the middle east.. you can always blame third world countries for plagues because the aren't "developed"..

the world would be a better place for us if two things happened:

1. The USA flat out robs the banks where China holds their money. Just take it, its ours anyways. That could pay off the debt and fix the USA. [B] 2. Got rid of muslims.[/B][/quote]

It wasn't muslims that destroyed African nations. It wasn't muslims that brought disease to the new world and collapse of some of the greatest empires in the world. While Europe was sifting through the dark ages, Persian nations were hard at work helping to uncover science hand-in-hand with Europeans. Everything that is occurring now is occurring because either the Americas or Europeans were hardcore imperialists. I think this quote serves it's purpose:

"When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible".

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[quote=Jenks;445305]:lol: hey if you can't laugh at the black death, then who can you laugh at?[/quote]

I hear Tetanus is a good time.

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[QUOTE=subterFUSE;445377]As for # 2, I'll do you one better.... just get rid of all religious people. Nothing but troublemakers, every last one of them. ;)[/QUOTE] That'd knock out the majority of this country as well (not that this is an entirely bad idea :twisted: ) :lol:

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[quote=rubyraks;445416]That'd knock out the majority of this country as well (not that this is an entirely bad idea :twisted: ) :lol:[/quote]

Oh.... believe me..... I know. ;)

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I say we get rid of all the non-believers. ;)

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[quote]It wasn't muslims that destroyed African nations. It wasn't muslims that brought disease to the new world and collapse of some of the greatest empires in the world. While Europe was sifting through the dark ages, Persian nations were hard at work helping to uncover science hand-in-hand with Europeans. Everything that is occurring now is occurring because either the Americas or Europeans were hardcore imperialists. I think this quote serves it's purpose:

[/quote]

im not gonna say kill off a society, but you are missing a few hundred years of history. you ever hear of the conquest of palestine int eh 7th century? the muslim expansion and invasion of what is known as spain, portugal, adnd france?? these were violent military campaigns expanding the religion becasue the judeo-christo areas resisted. byzantine empire ring a bell? pope urban? the muslims werent doing anything peaceful, ever. the only peace they had was in the heart of thier own society, and because they ruled with an iron fist. and this all happened b4 the cursades were even thought of. so donrt bring those up. they were a response to this. they fucked up the whole region that is essentially still at war today. ppl blame the jews for the problems there, but no one wants to admit the fact the muslims were wrecking shit long before the english decided to give the jews a stake in thier homelenad in 1947. a homeland they had to flee because they were dead if rthey tried to fight back.

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the youth or Iran are fed up. I bet there'd be a coup/revolution attempt, if not two, before any rounds were exchanged between us and them. i heard somewhere that the iranian gov't is not widely supported as most think...i'll have to double check my source on this...but yes.

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[QUOTE=88Mariner;445509]the youth or Iran are fed up. I bet there'd be a coup/revolution attempt, if not two, before any rounds were exchanged between us and them. i heard somewhere that the iranian gov't is not widely supported as most think...i'll have to double check my source on this...but yes.[/QUOTE]

I've heard that as well. The irony is that if there was if there is one country in the ME that is actually ripe for westernization, it is probably Iran -- at least amongst the populace.

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[quote=thesightless;445470]im not gonna say kill off a society, but you are missing a few hundred years of history. you ever hear of the conquest of palestine int eh 7th century? the muslim expansion and invasion of what is known as spain, portugal, adnd france?? these were violent military campaigns expanding the religion becasue the judeo-christo areas resisted. byzantine empire ring a bell? pope urban? the muslims werent doing anything peaceful, ever. the only peace they had was in the heart of thier own society, and because they ruled with an iron fist. and this all happened b4 the cursades were even thought of. so donrt bring those up. they were a response to this. they fucked up the whole region that is essentially still at war today. ppl blame the jews for the problems there, but no one wants to admit the fact the muslims were wrecking shit long before the english decided to give the jews a stake in thier homelenad in 1947. a homeland they had to flee because they were dead if rthey tried to fight back.[/quote]

edit: not worth the frustration.

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[quote=subterFUSE;444539]If you are skeptical that Iran is involved in the Iraq insurgency, then forgive me for calling you crazy. I'm sorry.... but no serious person can possibly deny that Iran is involved in Iraq now.

You were never "lied to". The word "lie" means to knowingly deceive another. The entire world watched Saddam use WMDs on the Kurds and the Iranians. Everyone knew he had them. He never supplied proof of disarmament. Therefore we had to assume that he still had them. You can't make the assumption that all of these weapons which once existed suddenly disappeared into thin air. Personally, I believe they have been transferred to Syria.... or possibly buried in Iraq. Saddam certainly had enough time to plan for it. The damned UN wasted so much fucking time, he could have hidden just about anything he had.

I'm not trying to be a Bush apologist here.... but if you want to be honest, you must concede the simple fact that worldwide intelligence agencies all agreed that Saddam had WMDs.[/quote]

Man your wrong...do you really think wars such as this one are started on "assumptions"??? I mean you can't just assume that some one has a gun in their pocket and shoot them down on the street for it. A great deal of intel is needed and obtained before any military conflict! Also I don't know if its been publicized so much in the US as it has in the UK... it is now said that the US and UK govt knew that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction but merely thought that he was supporting terorists... and furthermore I just want to add that you can't really compare WW1 with today...and the fact that some weapons were found in Washington under a building tells you perhaps something about your own govt?

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[quote=Shpira;445642]Man your wrong...do you really think wars such as this one are started on "assumptions"??? I mean you can't just assume that some one has a gun in their pocket and shoot them down on the street for it. A great deal of intel is needed and obtained before any military conflict! Also I don't know if its been publicized so much in the US as it has in the UK... it is now said that the US and UK govt knew that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction but merely thought that he was supporting terorists... and furthermore I just want to add that you can't really compare WW1 with today...and the fact that some weapons were found in Washington under a building tells you perhaps something about your own govt?[/quote]

The justification for the Iraq War was based on more than just the WMD argument.

Here are some important pieces of information you are leaving out:

1. Following the first gulf war, there was a cease-fire agreement. Saddam violated this cease-fire agreement every day for over 12 years, by firing on US and British military aircraft patrolling the No Fly Zone. Violating any portion of the cease-fire agreement was legal grounds for the removal of Saddam. This fact alone made the removal of Saddam legal. The US and British forces were bombing, almost daily, Iraqi anti-aircraft artillary positons. These attacks had to be stepped up dramatically during the time after 9/11 and leading on to the second Iraq War.

2. Iraq violated 17 UN Resolutions calling for disarmament. He expelled weapons inspectors, and when he did allow them in the country, they were not allowed into critical areas. The UN Resolutions called for serious consequences in the event of non-compliance, and the final Resolution (1441) called directly for the complete and transparent proof of disarmament, which Saddam refused.

3. Saddam had used WMDs on the Kurds, and on Iran.

4. Saddam's various WMD programs were well known. As early as the 1970s, Saddam had ordered a nuclear weapons program. They were supplied chemical weapons by various governments and businesses around the world. Germany, in particular, gave them mustard gas, sarin gas, etc... Other German companies supplied biological agents such as botulism. They also gave centrifuge technology which could be used to develop nuclear weapons. France gave nuclear technology, including helping to build a nuclear reactor (Which Israel eventually bombed). Italy gave nuclear materials such as plutonium.... as well as rockets designed to deliver chemical agents. Even the USA gave things which aided the Iraqi weapons programs: high-tech computers which were used in the nuke program, and biological samples which the CDC gave for medical research (but were instead used to develop weapons). The list goes on and on.... nearly every country in Europe gave Iraq weapons, checmicals, biological or nuclear agents.

None of this was in question, or dispute.

The queston isn't.... "Did Saddam have any weapons at all?" The question is.... "What did he do with what he had?"

We don't know the answer to that question.... and I, for one, am not comfortable with assuming he had nothing.... as so many people today seem to think. There's just too much evidence in his past which shows he had weapons. We can't just ignore 30 years of history.

My story about the WWI munitions being hidden in the ground in Washington DC was merely to make a simple point.... That it is possible to hide large stockpiles of weapons. If it can be done inside the city limits of Washington, DC for over 60 years without detection..... then it could have been done in Iraq. Am I saying that's what I think happened? Maybe... I just don't know. I'm just saying it is possible, and because it is possible.... I don't feel comfortable with just saying: "Saddam had no weapons." When you have a 30 year history like his, you just can't ignore it all like that. But that's what people are doing now.

SOMETHING happened to Iraq's weapons during the time inspectors were not in the country.... 1998-2003. I am not satisfied with just saying: "Oh well, we didn't find a warehouse with cases of VX gas.... so I guess he never had anything." We need to find out what happened to them.

The "threat" Saddam posed was never one of direct attacks on the USA. It was the indirect threat of supplying terror organizations with weapons. Maybe this already happened? What if they got moved to Syria? We certainly telegraphed our intentions for a long time, so he had the time to do it. I think this is enitrely possible, and I hope we figure it out soon.