Just curious what the thinking is about the ol' US of A after the election. I know our status in the eyes of the world hasn't exactly been stellar of late, I was wondering if the fact that we basically fired the folks that have been in charge and effectively neutered Bush for the next two years has had any impact. Do people in other countries look at the election and say, "Good, the Americans have come to their senses?"

Or has the damage already been done? Or do people even care?

Re: FAO Non-Americans

I guess it depends on what happens in the next few months. the fact that bush got a blow is quite positive but the rest needs to follow

Re: FAO Non-Americans

the oil and cigarette companies in the USA are strangling your foreign policy.. I think it was a big step for the US to vote democrat in the house and senate. I just hope they follow through. I think the Bush administration is going to go down as one of the most corrupt administrations ever. The top guys (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) got very rich over the past 5 years.. I hope that your mentalities change toward the world as well. More money needs to be dropped in the USA instead of Iraq. $100 Billion could have gone a long way for New Orleans and personal growth. I also hope you take on China for stealing ALL your technology which in turn means a lot of money... Communism and Capitalism can't live side by side.. Eventually there will be a falling out.. With all these changes could bring massive fortune to the middle class. Then we won't have to work 60 hours a week to feed our kids. The "Quickening of time" era must end for humanity..

Enjoy that!

Re: FAO Non-Americans

people care because of the importance of our country relationship with the US ... they lend money to us and stuff like that .....

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[QUOTE=runningman;412511]the oil and cigarette companies in the USA are strangling your foreign policy.. [/QUOTE] Don't forget the pharmaceuticals...

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[QUOTE=runningman;412511]I think the Bush administration is going to go down as one of the most corrupt administrations ever. [/QUOTE]

Yep. Probably one of the worst, too. We'll be dealing with Bush's mess for a few administrations to come, I'd bet.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=toasty;412524]Yep. Probably one of the worst, too. We'll be dealing with Bush's mess for a few administrations to come, I'd bet.[/quote]

I disagree. I think Bush has done a better job than most of you would give credit for. I think that history will show he has not been that bad. His tax cuts saved this country from the Clinton Recession.... and alleviated the economic downturn following 9/11. I believe the Patriot Act has been largely successful at helping agencies share important intelligence. We have not been attacked at home since 9/11, and I directly link that to Bush's policies. Millions of people have been freed from totalitarian control in two countries. Huge blows have been dealt to the world of organized terrorism.

Frankly, the fact that so many people around the world dislike Bush tells me he must be doing something right. For all the criticism being thrown at Bush, it amazes me how nobody seems to care about the real corruption going on. Take a look around. France, Germany, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Sudan. Oil for Food. Darfur. Iran seeking nuclear arms, and threatening the destruction of Israel. North Korea testing nukes. Russian government executing members of the press. Syria and Iran sponsoring terrorism. :roll: The list goes on and on. If the world stands by while all that happens.... then I consider it a compliment if they dislike America.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

^^

[IMG]http://www.robotsandwrestlers.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/hey_kool_aid4.jpg[/IMG]

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=toasty;412613]^^

[IMG]http://www.robotsandwrestlers.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/hey_kool_aid4.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

That's funny.

I actually consider most Bush haters to be Kool-Ade drinkers. ;)

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=subterFUSE;412582]it amazes me how nobody seems to care about the real corruption going on. Take a look around. France, Germany, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Sudan. Oil for Food. Darfur. Iran seeking nuclear arms, and threatening the destruction of Israel. North Korea testing nukes. Russian government executing members of the press. Syria and Iran sponsoring terrorism. :roll: The list goes on and on. If the world stands by while all that happens.... then I consider it a compliment if they dislike America.[/quote]Dude, what drugs are you on? Placing France and Germany on the same line as NK and Iran? Darfur is a region in Sudan fyi (:roll: ) Imo you should take an atlas, a few books and a newspaper and read up a bit.

on topic: from a European perspective, I do think that the Americans are comming back to their senses like toasty said. Yes, it could've been easy to collectively go "told ya sooooo", but there are some serious situations which don't allow that gloating right now (what's the added value anyway?).

But yes, it's gonna take a few administrations to right the wrongs of Bush and his goons. Just take a look at Iraq: I have no idea how that situation is going to have a happy ending during the next 5 to 10 years...

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=KinKyJ;412715]Dude, what drugs are you on? Placing France and Germany on the same line as NK and Iran? Darfur is a region in Sudan fyi (:roll: ) Imo you should take an atlas, a few books and a newspaper and read up a bit. [/quote]

If you read my post carefully, you will notice I named a few countries.... followed by a few scandals/issues. Darfur is one such issue I mentioned. And I did not equate France to Iran..... I mentioned them and their involvement in the Oil for Food scandal as an example of corruption which has largely gone unnoticed by the world community.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=subterFUSE;412582]I disagree. I think Bush has done a better job than most of you would give credit for. I think that history will show he has not been that bad. His tax cuts saved this country from the Clinton Recession.... and alleviated the economic downturn following 9/11. I believe the Patriot Act has been largely successful at helping agencies share important intelligence. We have not been attacked at home since 9/11, and I directly link that to Bush's policies. Millions of people have been freed from totalitarian control in two countries. Huge blows have been dealt to the world of organized terrorism.

Frankly, the fact that so many people around the world dislike Bush tells me he must be doing something right. For all the criticism being thrown at Bush, it amazes me how nobody seems to care about the real corruption going on. Take a look around. France, Germany, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Sudan. Oil for Food. Darfur. Iran seeking nuclear arms, and threatening the destruction of Israel. North Korea testing nukes. Russian government executing members of the press. Syria and Iran sponsoring terrorism. :roll: The list goes on and on. If the world stands by while all that happens.... then I consider it a compliment if they dislike America.[/quote]

[quote=subterFUSE] That's funny.

I actually consider most Bush haters to be Kool-Ade drinkers. ;)[/quote]

+1

Re: FAO Non-Americans

what's incredibly funny is that Europe has been [I]completely [/I]marginalized by Islam over the past three decades. It's become a vast colony that's slowly being devoured and assimilated. Regardless of what the rest of the world thinks, the future belongs to the United States....and perhaps Australia, too. That being said why doesn't anyone ask Americans of our opinion on the foreign countries...?

Re: FAO Non-Americans

because calling us ignorant and avoiding us when answering questions is a lot easier than finding out most of us are quite intellinent and educated when it comes to things outside our borders. if they dont ask the questions, they dont have to deal with the answers. they call us the nation at war with isalm, yet, we are the ones opposed to things like veil bans and banning religious things. they call us fat cats, yet we have across the board higher per capita household values.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

and in regards to comment on the pat act from subter, the centrist lib in me hates it, its wording moreso, but i also ask the question, ''show me one person you know who was affected by it, moreso, those who are affected by it, show me how they shouldnt have been."

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=88Mariner;412823]what's incredibly funny is that Europe has been [I]completely [/I]marginalized by Islam over the past three decades. It's become a vast colony that's slowly being devoured and assimilated. Regardless of what the rest of the world thinks, the future belongs to the United States....and perhaps Australia, too. That being said why doesn't anyone ask Americans of our opinion on the foreign countries...?[/quote]retarded post of the day... of the week... nah, make it the monthly winner. dude, you're clueless when it comes to europe :roll:

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=thesightless;412834]because calling us ignorant and avoiding us when answering questions is a lot easier than finding out most of us are quite intellinent and educated when it comes to things outside our borders. if they dont ask the questions, they dont have to deal with the answers. they call us the nation at war with isalm, yet, we are the ones opposed to things like veil bans and banning religious things. they call us fat cats, yet we have across the board higher per capita household values.[/quote]

yes, and you also have some of the poorest people in the western world

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=KinKyJ;412857]retarded post of the day... of the week... nah, make it the monthly winner. dude, you're clueless when it comes to europe :roll:[/quote]

+1

Re: FAO Non-Americans

he said it wrong kinkster.

maybe, and im jumping the gun i know, he meant to say that europe ignored what islam brings to the table in reagrds to respecting the home countries laws and customs, and assimilating into each regional culture. now they are facing backlashes in a variety of topics, from religious garb (being the most current and media worthy) to the hard feelings of countries who refuse to bend to accept laws and customs based within the islamic culture. the people themselves as well.

i cant defend his comment on the future is that of the USA. while we are guaranteed to be at least a large key to the future direction of the planet, we arent aiming to be the worlds leader in law and war. maybe, just maybe, he meant it as we will lead the fight for stabiltiy and and equality, as well as economic development. i cant see most of europe heling here, as they cannot find a common ground on certain economic aspects for themsevles.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=thesightless;412834]we are the ones opposed to things like veil bans and banning religious things. .[/quote]

do not use the veil ban as a tool to say that europe is against Islam or any religion as it is not the case

Re: FAO Non-Americans

with 300 million within our borders, i accept the fact that there will be poor people. base the numbers on population and the base numbers will be around average.

yes we have homeless, so does every other country.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=RiseandShine;412868]do not use the veil ban as a tool to say that europe is against Islam or any religion as it is not the case[/quote]

no but the idea of ''forced assimilation'' is IMHO, both ironic and wrong. it shows that some people, especially in the netherlands where under 100 women actually wear it, have a problem with outsiders. if you want ppl to assimilate into a society, embrace them. those who are feared are the militants. and you should take steps to stop them, not the shop clerk who follows their religion and your laws.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

that is funny. i thought Bush was cleaning up Clinton's mess, and we would be cleaning that up for decades and administrations to come.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

we still are. from the accounting/market POV, it still is quite messy. we are uncovering more scandals than are being reported. the SEC has taken the lead under the SOX act. in the end, money hurts, and it will take time to correct the over inflation of the market. a positive from this end, is that even with the trouble, we are still flying, showing positve signs all the way. but that is just one POV>

i know ppl will bring up debt economies, but everyone is in debt and the US is owed a lot of money on the national scale, and our debt doesnt reflect that. think of the money we just threw away on africa. hint hint :it was well into the billions. jsut gone, because we were nice and opted to ignore the debt to us to help others.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;412644] I actually consider most Bush haters to be Kool-Ade drinkers. ;)[/QUOTE]

That's odd, because in other posts, you've suggested (correctly, I think) that the Democrats did not win, the Republicans lost -- which would imply that a majority of the population are in fact Bush haters, not Democrat-lovers. It isn't that we've started slurping up what the Democrats are serving, we are just tired of the Red Raspberry Religious Punch, Corruption Cooler, and Mid-East Meltdown flavors the Republicans have been churning out of late.

Sounds like you're one of the few that are still clinging like grim death to the abject failure that is the George W. Bush administration -- so you may want to ask for a bigger glass of the Kool-Aid, and put yourself out of your misery... ;)

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=thesightless;412872]no but the idea of ''forced assimilation'' is IMHO, both ironic and wrong. it shows that some people, especially in the netherlands where under 100 women actually wear it, have a problem with outsiders. if you want ppl to assimilate into a society, embrace them. those who are feared are the militants. and you should take steps to stop them, not the shop clerk who follows their religion and your laws.[/quote]

Fun, never heard of the term "forced assimilation" before European country do not hit on each immigrant's head until they fit a particular canvas. on the opposite, europeans culture have always been very open and immigration has been a constant phenomena for centuries. at one point, most countries decided to have a state free of all religion to make it neutral - that was in 1905 in France and first targetted Catholics. you should not see it as a "forced action" but as a price to pay to become member of a certain country. the US has another way to deal with this - which I find very susccessful and has its reasons too

Re: FAO Non-Americans

you want them to pay a price to become a member of your country?>

i thought taxes and obeying law would be enough.

listen its a dumb idea and an even dumber conversation. im against it in every way. we all have some biased problem with each religion/ethnicity, and the only way to stop them is not to act on them. i HATE the ghetto culture, but you dont see me petetioning to prevent blacks from wearing baggy clothes because they offend me when they look like shit.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

no it is not enough. taxes and laws do not constitute countries by themselves As a French person, I have a certain cultural background which I want to be respected and I hope that the French of tomorow will have a bit of the french of today in them. From your all mighty trone, you have judged this to be dumb - it's been working very well and will continue.

price was probably not the best terms to use, maybe respect for institutions, culture and what is already in place?

Re: FAO Non-Americans

... that is a funny post Toasty. Not one thing has changed in a year, and what I mean by that is stability. Mideast has been a meltdown for decades, not just during the "Bushy" period, the economy is doing very well, black Friday sales were up 6% from last year, Corporate greed has been way around before Bush was born, Religious fanatics have been here since the dawn of day. I am sorry but I am calling bullshit on that post. That is a pretty big "lib" twist of something has been going on for some time.

I think what really happened is ... people "believe" by getting a bunch of paper-pushers, tax raising, health care for all, pot-smoking, free-love, twist talking liberals into office would stop global warming and win the war on Iraq. If you think the Bush period was bad, you got something coming. Bush is very bad, and he is the best choice we had.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=RiseandShine;412903] As a French person, I have a certain cultural background which I want to be respected [/quote] conversation ended there.

[IMG]http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/French%20Terror%20Alert%20copy.jpg[/IMG]

move anywhere then continue. your demands for repsect have lead to the targeted minority being the most underemployed section of society in europe, mainly on their own faults, but a serious lack of help from whitey's end too. not to mention rioting based upon a few things, religious dominance and employement being the lead two reasons. and it isnt better. more and more the white bread folks are alienating the one community you need to show love to and it will only get worse.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

PS im obviously kidding about the french sucking. i know better but the majority of earth doesnt.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

^^^ be nice Sean.

hahahaha.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

i feel like the lone sane person in an asylum in reagrds to the veil ban. if i want you to work with me, the last thing i should do is stop your priorty in life. here it just happens to be clothing. i dont walk into a gas station and ask the attendant to take off the turban.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

you keep on wanting this conversation to end up - it will, I am not forcing you to talk so stop acting as if I was.

you seem to like to embrace a lot of different concept and ideas and I find that troubling. The frenc governement is one of the most socialist one (not that I support that) so the "help" given to minorities is one of the highuest you can find anywhere. ritoing, I think we can pass, please refer to other post - especially the part about religion being a false excuse - btw, do not use the term religion dominance in France, it does not make sense

finally, we do show love to this community

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=thesightless;412918]PS im obviously kidding about the french sucking. i know better but the majority of earth doesnt.[/quote]

listen, as any country in the world, we suck for a lot of things - and I'll be the first ones to point out, believe me

Re: FAO Non-Americans

lemme word it like this.

you move here to NY. im the governer. you live here for a few years, and i tell you that you will be in legal violation if you (depending on ur personal situation) a. fly a french flag b. wear a cruxifix, yamaka (spelling off i know), turban or headscarf.

im sorry. it isnt going to make you like us anymore.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=thesightless;412925]i feel like the lone sane person in an asylum in reagrds to the veil ban. if i want you to work with me, the last thing i should do is stop your priorty in life. here it just happens to be clothing. i dont walk into a gas station and ask the attendant to take off the turban.[/quote]

probably because you are taking it to an extreme. I think it also depends on your perception of private and public life. France ecides that school is a public space and be religion-neutral. this doe snot say it is against your turban and forcing you to eat pork.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[quote=thesightless;412933]lemme word it like this.

you move here to NY. im the governer. you live here for a few years, and i tell you that you will be in legal violation if you (depending on ur personal situation) a. fly a french flag b. wear a cruxifix, yamaka (spelling off i know), turban or headscarf.

im sorry. it isnt going to make you like us anymore.[/quote]

ok, France would allow you to fly flags if you want - you can be partiotic; but that's not the point.

And, yes, I will become more american if I behave as everyone else in a certain number of places.

Maybe the sticky part for you is the dirigism under which the french government France and other countries actually take decisions on broader fronts than just economy and taxes.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

sightless, I'm not arguing that one is better - I am saying that they are just to different ways to deal with the relationship between state and religion. and the background to this is culture and types of institutions I do think the European will continue to work on the long run - maybe needs to soften a bit but it will work.

Re: FAO Non-Americans

[QUOTE=asdf_admin;412906]... that is a funny post Toasty. Not one thing has changed in a year, and what I mean by that is stability. Mideast has been a meltdown for decades, not just during the "Bushy" period, the economy is doing very well, black Friday sales were up 6% from last year, Corporate greed has been way around before Bush was born, Religious fanatics have been here since the dawn of day. I am sorry but I am calling bullshit on that post. That is a pretty big "lib" twist of something has been going on for some time. [/QUOTE]

OK, all of those things have been around for some time, but Bush has really taken those concepts and made them his own, IMO. We could sit here and debate all day whether the influence of evangelicals, the level of corruption/cronyism, and the degree of insanity in the mideast has gone up or down since Bush took office, but that probably isn't a useful exercise because for me it isn't even close and there's probably nothing that you or anyone else could point to that would convince me otherwise.

[QUOTE=asdf_admin;412906] I think what really happened is ... people "believe" by getting a bunch of paper-pushers, tax raising, health care for all, pot-smoking, free-love, twist talking liberals into office would stop global warming and win the war on Iraq. [/QUOTE]

Way to hit those buzzwords. The truth, though, is that many of the "liberals" that were just elected are actually more in line with classic conservatives than the so-called conservatives that were running. The republicans totally lost their way, and they got creamed because of it.