Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=thesightless]yeah thanks for informing me, i never learned that studying history and economics for 7 years.[/quote]

So you did learn something new today after all...:D

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

dammit..i quick replied after i read the first page.....i suppose that was a bit misplaced...sorry...

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=malayday;391657]whaa?....so how credible is what this man who is in (obvious suffering and pain and discomfort) and what he has to say....

thats what i was refering to earlier...sure ok you want to legitimize them [I]against international law[/I] so you can prove whatever, but what the fuk has this unnecessary sick phychological and physical suffering brought us?....were letting it happen to people who havent even seen the light of a trial or a hearing....not been able to represent themselves or have someone represent them...not have been able to have the liberty of one phonecall...

then specially designed activities enforced to completely emasculate and humiliate them purposfully disrespect and disregard all that they cherish....

im sure some of them had ill wishes for the u.s before they went in....but after everyone of them held without any sort of just, democratic procedure or reason other than suspect and alligations or being at the worng place at the worng time...im positive they have even more distrust and disillusionment with the u.s after experiencing what they had in store for them....

none of the ones released so far have recieved any sort of acknowledgment despite having been put through this 'torture'....

i reckon they passed the bill so they wouldnt have to use other countries which have no such laws and manipulate the system....theyr trying to cut some costs...north korea might be expensive....[/quote]

at what point did mommy read you this????

[IMG]http://www.sonex-online.com/Stash/Testicles.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=Yao;391604] You see, we fighters do have a spine when the shit hits the fan, in more than just one aspect of life ;). [SIZE=1][COLOR=Gray] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

I think you said it nicely here. The question is, when will the shit hit the fan or what is the shit? I have no problem in saying the leaders of Western nations are morons and making a mess of every situations they get their hands on. But the real fighters, the people. What will it take for them to stand up and fight until the end. As in WWII when Churchill gave his speach about fighting for victory at all costs.

I realize we are no where near that kind of hostility. But one only has to look around for a bit and ponder what is happening over the world and wonder in the end, this can only end badly.

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

@ Sean: You saying that people that were held and possibly tortured for a number of years and who weren't convicted of any crime don't deserve some compensation? It's the rule of law that should protect people from this kind of random imprisonment and treatment dude...no matter how pissed you are at extremists in general, if one of the gitmo guys is not indicted or convicted, he should receive compensation, period. Fucking up people's lives based on allegations or suspicions is NOT what Western freedom and democracy is about!

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

having a pair is being prepared to go through it yourself, not letting it happen to some unknown people who have a different name or language or a darker skin or a beard and just because you cant relate to them...or see yourself in thier shoes, behind your office cubical pushing buttons shouldnt mean you should be alright with allowing some who have nothing to do with this suffer cruel and inhumane criminal treatment...

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=malayday;391680]having a pair is being prepared to go through it yourself, not letting it happen to some unknown people who have a different name or language or a darker skin or a beard and just because you cant relate to them...or see yourself in thier shoes, behind your office cubical pushing buttons shouldnt mean you should be alright with allowing some who have nothing to do with this suffer cruel and inhumane criminal treatment...[/quote]

Well said.

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

not what i said, i said that if the guys like abra are found innocent and after dealing with what they did, the fucking US gov't should own up, apologize and hand the guy a pension and house.

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

ok cool...sorry for misunderstanding

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

:group hu:

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

word. ''sorry we fucked up your life for awhile, here, now you never have to worry again."

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

well...unless evidence is found which gets them jailed, which is of course not unthinkable either ;)

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=thesightless;391509]and if you bring up arar, then dont ever ask your government to try any legal cases, b/c every single country has people in prison who are innocent, dont try murders or rapes, nothing. innocent people caught in this should be given a free pass when proven innocent. i mena a complete pass, like a gov't funded pension nad home.[/quote]

It's not just that, these people aren't given DUE PROCESS. They're stripped from life without anyone knowing where they are. They're held captive without knowing what happened. And to be tortured for roughly 2 years in Syria? Without his family knowing where he is? This goes beyond all rational and ethical bases for which we as Americans, not even that, humans, stand for. You're thinking out of anger, not out of rationalizing the situation; And that's what kills a nation.

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[QUOTE=thesightless;391683]not what i said, i said that if the guys like abra are found innocent and after dealing with what they did, the fucking US gov't should own up, apologize and hand the guy a pension and house.[/QUOTE] Now what are you gonna say when the US pays up and the "innocent" person turns around and hands the money, house, etc. over to terrorist organizations...which after being accidently tortured seems a more viable circumstance?

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=thesightless;391753]word. ''sorry we fucked up your life for awhile, here, now you never have to worry again."[/quote]

"for awhile" i dont know....torture isnt something that easy to get over...especially when its fukin TORTURE...wat the shiz man...for a while?...thats convenient...

i think a few actually died during 'interrogation'..thats in iraq..i dont know about guantanamo.. but so much for "awhile" ....i mean the govt has employed private contractors... people who have specific knowledge and training for dealing with these people to know exactly what the things that will make them truely feel tortured..i mean its would be naive to think that torture simply means a pysical stress and pushing of a pain threshold...it also is deeply affecting the individuals psyche and it is also a torture of the mind...

going through something like that surely must have an everlasting impact...its not for "a while" its for"ever"...you cant clean the slate after doing something like that...no monetary compensation no apology...its just wrong..

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=rubyraks;392260]Now what are you gonna say when the US pays up and the "innocent" person turns around and hands the money, house, etc. over to terrorist organizations...which after being accidently tortured seems a more viable circumstance?[/quote]

thats the catch 22, right there. they 'legally' turn out to be innocent cuz they dont admit thier ties to terror, we free them and they turn around and fight again. over 100 suspects that were freed from cuba, in turn, died fighting troops both in afghan and iraq. they found released afghanis in iraq after fights, so it turns out, maybe we didnt coerse them enough if they had contacts with terror groups, militias, whatever the PC word is nowadays, in another country...... and just wait until something stupid happens yet again in europe..... not to mention if that stupid threat released yesterday ended up being true. could you imagine watching a bears game and all of a sudden chaos breaks out live on TV that is broadcasted around the world.

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

[quote=rubyraks;391599]so sean, I gotta ask, are there no limits to the amount and type of torture that interrogators are allowed to do in order to extract information in your book? Or are there some limits?[/quote]

there is a limit, when truth comes out they will stop torturing :roll: of course, truth has a relative meaning on that line. lets suppose you are the interrogator. if you are expecting the guy to tell you something, you probably won't stop until he tells the exact thing you want to hear. so, what's the limit? death i guess.

Re: Bush Signs New Bill on Detainee Interogation

^That sucks for the guy/gal being interrogated.