Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Ha Ha

Yeah, I guess so. :lol:

I just dont understand how everyone just blindly accepts what the government tells them. The real "conspiracy theory" is the official story, IMO.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

I am fully aware the US Government is an equal opportunity mischief maker.

I also realize there is nothing i can do about it except vote in 2008, and it'll probably be for a republican this time, because i voted republican in the last election a republican didn't get elected.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

im voting for gumby.

mccain is the only guy out there i like with a chance. kuchinich will get ignored again becuase he isnt a ""big enough"" story for the media. in that, i mean there arent enough democrats who would jump to stump for him over the cunt or kerry.

[img]http://www.vote4me.nl/235/36626/gumby.gif[/img]

lastly though, no offense to you man, but i really find it hard you think Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11. i just do, but hell, i cant change your mind. not my right. :|

your right about it being hard to miss a 6'6 beared guy on a dialisis machine. but we cant rule out that maybe the entire peoples of the region hate us as much as he does, and arent exactly putting him out in the open. cave, house, bunker, whatever, he COULD be hiding with cooperation from others.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=eye-p] Explain to me why we havnt caught him yet? This is 6'5" muslim with a dialisis machine. He would be hard to miss.[/quote]

We haven't caught him yet because Bush is an incompetent boob.

Clinton shouldn't get off either though, if you'll pardon the pun, for his role in failing to act when he could have acted, but I would point out that the policy for dealing with terrorists was very different during the Clinton years and through the first 8 months of the Bush presidency (and every president before them, for that matter). 9/11 resulted in a change in policy. It is easy to sit here with the benefit of hindsight, but the simple fact of the matter is that the response you would expect from any American president to a suspected terrorist out in the open is different than what you would have expected pre-9/11.

If not OBL or Al Qaeda, who do you think is responsbile? Please tell me that you aren't one of those folks that believe that members of PNAC had a hand in 9/11 to allow them to put their plans into place or something like that...

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

What I believe about who is responsible for 9/11 has nothing to do with the fact that:

1. There has never been any evidence presented that OBL is behind 9/11.

2. Clinton was not offered OBL by Sudan.

3. Clinton was responsible for letting 9/11 happen.

That is what this thread was about.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

This topic has already been done to death on this forum. And anyone who remembers my arguments, probably remembers where I stand. I don't really want to start it up again, so feel free to ignore my viewpoint.

But frankly Clinton is, mostly, responsible for 9/11. Not so much in that he could have prevented it, per se. Only that the things he did in office showed that America wasn't willing to do anything, or stretch diplomatic boundaries in order to secure our situation. Which basically boils down to this - Clinton was a pvssy of a president, at a time when we needed someone with balls.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

:Cowboy:

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

honestly though, who do you think, outside of those who died on the plane, is directly responsible for the attacks. i.e. who gave the orders, who organized the 4 groups, who funded them and the pilot training? :idea:

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Last I looked, I'm not wearing a Tin-Foil hat.

So I believe it was al-Quada, Bin Laden and his cronies. Its all pretty cut and dry as far as I'm concerned

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

sorry, should have been specific. eye-p, who do you think is responsible for what i asked before. im in the bin laden group, secondly, i attribute it to the creation of isreal and the hatred it generated in the region. too many mid eastern ppl say its all about us meddling with them by creating isreal and backing it all this time. from syria to yemen, they all consider isreal thier first and foremost enemy. many more preparing for something bigger now that isreal has shown a weakness by withdrawing from gaza. :( :|

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=thesightless]sorry, should have been specific. eye-p, who do you think is responsible for what i asked before. im in the bin laden group, secondly, i attribute it to the creation of isreal and the hatred it generated in the region. too many mid eastern ppl say its all about us meddling with them by creating isreal and backing it all this time. from syria to yemen, they all consider isreal thier first and foremost enemy. many more preparing for something bigger now that isreal has shown a weakness by withdrawing from gaza. :( :|[/quote]

Ok, I agree that hatred of the US in the ME is largely due to our position on Israel. While there are plenty of other reasons for people in the ME to hate us, I think that Israel is the burn point.

I believe that believing the "official" version of 9/11 is exactly like believing the Warren Commission report. I dont believe either.

Again, either you believe that 19 Saudi's completely fooled and beat the greatest intelligence systems and military powers that planet Earth has ever seen, or you believe that we are not being told the whole story.

I believe the latter.

If any of you are actually interested in looking at evidence to support any of this, please PM me. I will be more than happy to help.

That being said, here is a reprint of a summary from a book called:

Crossing The Rubicon- The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil.

You can read more of Michael Rupperts works at his website:

[url]www.fromthewilderness.com[/url]

Here it is:

anuary 18, 2005 (FTW) - In an argument of over 600 pages and 1,000 footnotes, Crossing the Rubicon makes the case for official complicity within the U.S. government and names Dick Cheney as the prime suspect in the crimes of 9/11. Since the publication of this book (to which I had the privilege of contributing a chapter), many people have asked to hear the case against Cheney argued "short & sweet."

I will make it as short as possible, but it can never be sweet.

There are 3 major points made within this book that are crucial to proving Cheney's guilt. I shall first list them and then go on to prove each point as laid out in Crossing the Rubicon.

1. Means - Dick Cheney and the Secret Service: Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11.

2. Motive - Peak Oil: At some point between 2000 and 2007, world oil production reaches its peak; from that point on, every barrel of oil is going to be harder to find, more expensive to recover, and more valuable to those who recover and control it. Dick Cheney was well aware of the coming Peak Oil crisis at least as early as 1999, and 9/11 provided the pretext for the series of energy wars that Cheney stated, "will not end in our lifetime."

3. Opportunity - 9/11 War Games: The Air Force was running multiple war games on the morning of 9/11 simulating hijackings over the continental United States that included (at least) one "live-fly" exercise as well as simulations that placed "false blips" on FAA radar screens. These war games eerily mirrored the real events of 9/11 to the point of the Air Force running drills involving hijacked aircraft as the 9/11 plot actually unfolded. The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management.

Here is the supporting documentation as laid out in Crossing the Rubicon, making a legal case against Dick Cheney for the crimes of 9/11.

? MEANS: Dick Cheney and the Secret Service

As the 9/11 plot unfolded, it has been reported that Secret Service whisked Dick Cheney into an underground presidential bunker at 9:03.1 This establishes that the Secret Service was in the loop giving orders by at least 9:03, and almost certainly much earlier, as we will show.

Former counter-terrorism advisor Richard Clarke writes in Against All Enemies: "Secret Service had a system that allowed them to see what FAA's radar was seeing." The Kean Commission (also known as the 9/11 Commission) would have us believe that the chain of command on 9/11 was a complex web, but in reality the Secret Service had the authority to communicate presidential and vice presidential orders directly to fighter pilots in the air.2

In Air War Over America, a book commissioned by the Air Force documenting the morning of 9/11, it is stated that the FAA contacted Otis Air Force base informing them Flight 11 was headed to Manhattan and had lost its identification signal by 8:30.3 This indicates Secret Service was in the loop by the same time, or shortly thereafter, since they are able to see FAA radar screens in real time and FAA is reaching out to the military. There is no question that by 8:45 at the absolute latest, likely much earlier, Secret Service is in the decision-making loop. They were most likely in the loop after 8:15 when flight 11 turned its transponder off.

National Special Security Event

It is the Secret Service who has the legal mandate to take supreme command in case of a scheduled major event - or an unplanned major emergency - on American soil; these are designated "National Special Security Events." The Atlanta Olympic Games and the Republican & Democratic National Conventions are notable examples of NSSE's. In preparation, the Secret Service runs training initiatives of simulated attacks and field exercises for such events.4

The Secret Service works with state and local authorities as well as the military to coordinate security efforts; it has the best communication system of any agency in the country; and its personnel are always present with both the President and Vice President - making it the perfect agency to take supreme command in case of a major emergency on American soil.5

When 9/11 occurred, the legal framework was in place to allow the Secret Service to take supreme command over any and all American agencies, including the Air Force.6

Richard Clarke writes in Against All Enemies: "I was amazed at the speed of the decisions coming from Cheney and, through him, from Bush."7 This is to be expected. Everything was in place for the Commander in Chief to be calling all the shots as the 9/11 plot unfolded, but Bush was in an elementary school reading about goats with Secret Service agents right beside him.

Bush's Secret Service detail was in real-time communication not only with the FAA, but also the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center), into which Dick Cheney had reportedly been whisked by the Secret Service. While Bush continued his elementary school photo-op after being told, "America is under attack," Ari Fleischer - according to the Washington Times, 10/7/02 - caught the president's eye and held up a handwritten sign that said "DON'T SAY ANYTHING YET."8 Bush was intentionally being kept out of the decision-making loop during the critical moments of 9/11. The Vice President has no place in the official military chain of command.9

Thus far we have established that:

1. Secret Service was the supreme command on 9/11.

2. Bush was not in the role of Commander in Chief at critical times on 9/11.

3. The acting Commander in Chief as the 9/11 plot unfolded was Dick Cheney.

? MOTIVE: Peak Oil

By definition, world hydrocarbon (oil and gas) production peaks when half the planet's reserves have been used up. After that point, every barrel of oil will be harder to find, more expensive to obtain, and more valuable to whoever controls it. Many of the world's foremost experts place that peak between 2000 and 2007.

We live in a global economic system based on endless growth, and that growth is only possible with endless hydrocarbons to burn. Demand for oil and gas is increasing at staggering rates; after peak, there will be demand that simply cannot be met, and energy prices will rise inexorably.

The resulting economic catastrophe may see oil hit $100 per barrel before the end of this decade. Oil not only keeps us warm and moves our cars, it is used to make all plastics and is, together with natural gas, the most important ingredient keeping modern agriculture afloat. It is a little known fact that for every 1 calorie of food energy produced, 10 calories of hydrocarbons are consumed.10

We eat oil.

Without cheap oil, billions of people will freeze or starve and unfortunately, there is no combination of renewable energy sources that can replace oil and gas consumption without massive conservation efforts that are nowhere in sight.

Cheney knew about this.

There are no national plans for conservation in America. As Dick Cheney has stated, "The American way of life is not negotiable." Over-consumption is as American as apple pie. Many industry experts have been speaking to the reality of Peak Oil for some time. One of those experts - perhaps the most prominent in the world - was in Dick Cheney's National Energy Policy Development Group (NEPDG).

Just four days after Dick Cheney became Vice President he convened the NEPDG.11 Among the experts whose opinion Cheney paid for (with taxpayer dollars) was Matthew Simmons, one of the most respected energy investment bankers in the world. Simmons has been speaking out about Peak Oil for years, and there is no question that the urgent story of Peak Oil is what he told Cheney's NEPDG.

The content of the NEPDG documentation has been illegally withheld from the American public with a rubber stamp of approval from the Supreme Court. FTW has always contended that the deepest, darkest secrets of 9/11 are in those documents. That's why they've been guarded so tightly.

Cheney knew about Peak Oil in 1999 as CEO of Halliburton, long before was Vice President. A speech he gave at the London Institute of Petroleum demonstrates this clearly.12

As stated in Crossing the Rubicon, "By way of confirmation, people in and close to the oil industry are reporting that increased drilling is not resulting as yet in significantly increased supply."13

A crisis of this magnitude required a crisis plan, something the Neo-Liberals didn't have. The Neo-Conservatives, including Dick Cheney, had such a plan: manufacture a crisis - one that had long been imagined as necessary by elite planners inside the national security state14- and use it to maintain permanent war to steal the world's last remaining hydrocarbons and temporarily stave off the Peak Oil crisis.

? OPPORTUNITY: 9/11 War Games - a perfect "match"

On May 8, 2001 - four months prior to 9/11 - the president placed Dick Cheney in charge of "[A]ll federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies?" This included all "training and planning" which needed to be "seamlessly integrated, harmonious and comprehensive" in order to "maximize effectiveness." This mandate created the Office of National Preparedness in FEMA, overseen by Dick Cheney.15

Dick Cheney was placed directly in charge of managing the seamless integration of all training exercises throughout the entire federal government and all military agencies. On 9/11 Cheney oversaw multiple war games and terror drills, including several exercises of NORAD, the Air Force agency whose mandate is to "watch the sky."

The evening before September 11th, 2001, the National Security Agency intercepted a communication between Khalid Shaikh Muhammad and the alleged ringleader of the 9/11 attacks, Mohammed Atta. The communication stated, "The match is about to begin."

Were they "matching" their activities to the war games? Was the attack a rigged "match" between the defenders on one side, and the attackers with their accomplices on the other?

The Whitehouse was so infuriated when this communication leaked from the Senate Intelligence Committee that they threatened Senators with polygraphs and office searches for disclosing classified information. This leak struck a nerve within the Whitehouse.

We know multiple Air Force war games were running on the morning of 9/11, as documented extensively in the mainstream press.16 What Crossing the Rubicon has documented conclusively is that there was a live-fly drill taking place on 9/11 titled Vigilant Warrior. Richard Clarke disclosed the name of this drill on page 4 of his book, but it was Major Don Arias of NORAD who confirmed the definition of the title "Warrior" to Mike Ruppert via email.

Warrior = JCS/HQ NORAD sponsored FTX, or field training exercise (live-fly).17

That means that the Vigilant Warrior drill conducted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff involved at least one real commercial aircraft in the skies, intended to simulate exactly the kind of airliner hijack emergency presented on 9/11. Coincidence?

This was further supported by an April 18 2004 USA Today article titled, "NORAD had drills of jets as weapons." The report cited NORAD officials who confirmed live-fly drills were conducted using hijacked airliners originating from the continental United States used as weapons crashing into targets including the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The specific drill USA Today referred to was "planned in July [2001] and conducted later" - likely on 9/11 itself.18

Remember, on 9/11 the Bush administration claimed it had "no idea" aircraft would be used as weapons. Then why were they drilling such scenarios before and during 9/11? The Whitehouse dodged this by saying it wasn't aware of these drills but that is a transparent lie. The drills took place in the Whitehouse!19

Secret Service runs simulated attack field exercises - exactly what Vigilant Warrior was. This Joint Chiefs of Staff drill was likely being run through Secret Service lines of communication by a central command under Cheney's control.20

Additional war games on 9/11 included Northern Vigilance, an exercise that pulled Air Force fighters from the east coast of the United States up into Canada and Alaska simulating an attack out of Russia. All of those fighters were rendered useless as the 9/11 plot unfolded - too far away to respond.

One of the components of this drill included "false blips" (radar injects simulating aircraft in flight) placed on FAA radar screens.21 At one point FAA head Jane Garvey said they suspected up to 11 hijackings on 9/11. Was she saying they couldn't determine which were real, which were simulated, and which were live-fly military exercises?

Regardless, all of this rendered Air Force response on 9/11 useless.

In Air War Over America it is documented that General Arnold of NORAD didn't pull out of the war game titled Vigilant Guardian until reports of flight 93 being hijacked were coming in. That was at 9:16, a total of 54 minutes after it was known that flight 11 was a hijacking.22 What took so long? Were there still "false blips" on FAA radar screens at this time?

There were likely false blips on screen even after 9:16. The Kean Commission's report introduced "phantom flight-11" as being reported by the FAA at 9:25 on 9/11. The FAA reported flight 11 was heading to Washington D.C. at that time when in fact it had already struck the World Trade Center. The Kean Commission's report stated they were "unable to locate the source of the mistaken FAA information."23

"Phantom flight-11" was a false blip, but since the war games are classified, specific information on "false blips" and other details can't be reported.

Now imagine being an air traffic controller with both real planes and "false blips" simulating hijackings on your screens when suddenly there are real, multiple, hijackings. Where do you send the few Air Force fighters that you have? You can't guess wrong, you don't have enough assets for that. The FAA doesn't even make that decision, the military does. The Kean Commission managed to scapegoat the FAA in their report, but the Air Force itself confirmed the FAA did its job properly on 9/11 in Air War Over America.24

There were more 9/11 war games including Northern Guardian, Northern Denial (recently confirmed by an Assistant Editor at Harper's magazine) and an unnamed National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) drill for a plane crashing into NRO headquarters at precisely the time of an actual crash in New York.

Another coincidence?

War games, terror drills and exercises are run by the military quite frequently. In this case, they mirrored the real attacks of 9/11 with such shocking congruence as to be beyond the realm of coincidence.

This is made clear when we consider the warnings that had flooded U.S. Intelligence prior to 9/11, indicating that terrorists were planning to hijack aircraft and crash them into American targets on the ground during the week of September 9th, 2001.25 With that type of information, who in their right mind would then schedule war games that would leave New York and Washington D.C. completely undefended?

We've already shown that the man in charge of managing all such programs was Dick Cheney. Among the central decision-makers for the scheduling of so many simultaneous exercises would be Dick Cheney and Ralph Eberhart, head of NORAD.

It certainly was a perfect "match."

The Maestro

The most important revelation made about the 9/11 war games comes again from Major Don Arias of NORAD. With multiple war games running, there had to be someone coordinating them.

"Yes, there is an exercise maestro," said Don Arias in a phone interview.26

So who was the maestro?

Mike Ruppert called every relevant military and government office looking for an answer to this question and received no response. At the final 9/11 Commission hearing on June 17, 2004, I asked General Ralph Eberhart - the man in charge of NORAD on 9/11 - who was in charge of coordinating the war games that day. His only response was, "No comment." None of the commissioners, including Chairman Kean, could answer this question.27

FTW's research has concluded the maestro was either Dick Cheney, Ralph "Ed" Eberhart, or both. Whoever the maestro was, he was certainly under Cheney's management as per the May 2001 presidential mandate.

Additionally, Tripod II was a bio-terror exercise being set-up on the west side of lower Manhattan, reportedly scheduled to begin the next day. This exercise was being coordinated with FEMA and the Department of Justice - two of the agencies placed directly under Cheney's control in May of 2001 by presidential mandate.

Another coincidence?

There is no question that Cheney would be responsible for managing this exercise. The Tripod II drill became the command & control emergency response center on 9/11. The command center in WTC 7 was reportedly evacuated by 9:30 on 9/11, but Tripod II provided a new command center organized just as the original was.28 How convenient.

The Air Force war games ensured the air attack would be successful, and Tripod II assured Cheney would have control of the response to the crisis of his making. Matching the war games with hijackings - or hijacking the war games - was the opportunity for Cheney to help ensure the 9/11 attacks would be successful, justifying what he calls, "The war that will not end in our lifetimes." The "war on terror" is actually a war for the world's last remaining hydrocarbon reserves. This energy war is a response to a coming energy crisis that Cheney was well aware of at least as early as 1999.

Conclusion

Crossing the Rubicon demonstrates much more than is presented here. The book goes into the failures of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 insider trading, the curtailing of civil liberties, coming economic crisis, biological warfare, the real history of the Osama bin Laden, and many other issues critical to an understanding of today's historical reality.

Crossing the Rubicon also looks into the evolution of PROMIS software, a well-documented artificial intelligence and datamining program whose current descendants played an integral role in the crimes of 9/11. As Dick Cheney was running a separate chain of command via the Secret Service, he also had the capability to intervene in the functions of the FAA through an evolution of PROMIS software developed and sold by Ptech, Inc. - a company funded by Saudi terrorist financier Yassin Al Qadi. Al Qadi claims he met Dick Cheney in Jeddah before he was Vice President, a claim Cheney hasn't publicly refuted. FTW will soon be releasing an in-depth report on Ptech and its role in the crimes of 9/11.

What we have placed in front of you here is the legal case against Dick Cheney and other persons of interest within the U.S. government. Such evidence should constitute the foundation for articles of impeachment and criminal prosecution against George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and their accomplices.

Review the documentation for yourself.

Sources from Crossing the Rubicon:

1. Crossing the Rubicon, page 435
2. Ibid, 428 - 429
3. Ibid, 444
4. Ibid, 431 - 432
5. Ibid, 427 - 436
6. Ibid, 433
7. Ibid, 592
8. Ibid, 435
9. [url]http://www.dtic.mil/jcs/core/overview.html[/url]
10. Ibid, 24
11. Ibid, 109
12. Ibid, 47
13. Ibid, 38
14. Ibid, 40, 575
15. Rubicon, 333
16. Ibid, chapter 19, 333 - 356
17. Ibid, 368
18. Ibid, 345
19. Ibid 346
20. Ibid, 433
21. Ibid, 339
22. Ibid, 444
23. Ibid, 400
24. Ibid, 443
25. Ibid, chapter 13, 225 - 237
26. Ibid, 367
27. Ibid, 394 - 399
28. Ibid, 406

The following is a synopsis of the case against Dick Cheney who was named as the prime suspect in the crimes on 9/11 by Michael C. Ruppert in Crossing the Rubicon.

  MEANS: Dick Cheney and the Secret Service

  Cheney was Commander in Chief on 9/11 calling the shots via Secret Service.

  Secret Service has the legal authority to take supreme command over all agencies in the United States in time of a national emergency on U.S. soil. Even the Air Force recognizes Secret Service supremacy.

  Secret Service has the highest technological communication systems of any agency in the U.S. - as it should.

  On 9/11 Secret Service had the technology to see FAA radar screens in real time.

  Secret Service was in the decision-making loop as early as 8:15am on 9/11, no later than 8:45am.

  Everything was in place on 9/11 for the Commander in Chief to have full supreme control of the Air Force via the Secret Service communication systems and legal mandate to take supreme command.

  However, Bush was reading about goats in Booker Elementary School. Secret Service was within arms' reach, and they chose to keep him there as the 9/11 plot unfolded. Bush's Secret Service detail was in full communication with Cheney's Secret Service agents in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) as the 9/11 plot unfolded.

  Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11 and Secret Service was the supreme command.

  MOTIVE: Peak Oil

  The world is about to start running out of oil.

  Half of the world's oil has been, or is about to be, exhausted.

  Once that midpoint is crossed, every barrel of oil will be harder to find, and more expensive, as demand grows. Controlling the last remaining oil reserves is the key to controlling the world.

  Almost everything in modern society - vehicles, buildings, bridges, weapons, consumer products, and much more - consumes oil in its manufacture, its operation, or both.

  Cheap and abundant hydrocarbon energy keeps the industrial world warm and cooks our food. Most houses are heated with natural gas.

  We "eat" oil and natural gas: For every 1-calorie of food energy produced, 10 calories of hydrocarbon energy is consumed.

  Four days after becoming Vice President, Dick Cheney convened his National Energy Policy Development Group (NEPDG) in which he received extensive information on Peak Oil from world-renowned experts. He has refused to release the documents from those hearings to Congress or the American people. FTW has always contended that the deepest, darkest secrets of 9/11 lie in those documents.

  Dick Cheney knew about Peak Oil at least as early as 1999. He knows the economic impact of oil depletion and the catastrophic effects that will result.

  9/11 made possible what Dick Cheney called, "The war that won't end in our lifetimes." This is a war that is chasing the l ast remaining hydrocarbons across the globe. The "war on terror" is in reality an energy war and 9/11 was its pretext.

  OPPORTUNITY: 9/11 War Games

  Cheney was managing multiple war games and terror drills on 9/11 that paralyzed U.S. Air Force response.

  In May of 2001 Dick Cheney was placed directly in charge of managing the "seamless integration" of all training exercises throughout the federal government and military agencies by presidential mandate.

  The morning of 9/11 began with multiple training exercises of war games and terror drills which Cheney, as mandated by the president, was placed in charge of managing.

  War games & terror drills included live-fly exercises with military aircraft posing as hijacked aircraft over the United States, as well as simulated exercises that placed "false blips" (radar injects indicating virtual planes) on FAA radar screens. One exercise titled NORTHERN VIGILANCE pulled Air Force fighters up into Canada simulating a Russian air attack, so there were very few fighters remaining on the east coast to respond. All of this paralyzed Air Force response ensuring that fighter jocks couldn't stop 9/11.

  An unknown individual or command center referred to by Major Don Arias of NORAD as the "maestro" coordinated the war games. It is possible there was more than one maestro, but no one will name names. FTW has asked this question of everyone in relevant government and military positions, to no avail. Our investigation has found the maestro was either Dick Cheney, General Ralph "Ed" Eberhart, or both.

  Whoever was coordinating the Air Force war games was under the management and direction of Dick Cheney, who was also in charge of managing a terror drill being set up on the West Side of downtown New York on 9/11 titled Tripod 2. This exercise set up a command and control center on 9/11 that was configured exactly like the one lost that morning in WTC 7. It was the perfect command center to respond to the crisis, and it was under Dick Cheney's management before the hijackings occurred. How convenient.

  Dick Cheney was one of the main government officials deciding that such extensive war games would take place on 9/11. This was when American intelligence had collected dozens of warnings from governments and intelligence agencies indicating that terrorists were planning to hijack civilian aircraft and crash them into American targets on the ground during the week of September 9th, 2001.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

That's a neat story, even if your only source is one book.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=Jenks]That's a neat story, even if your only source is one book.[/quote]

Maybe you should read the part where I say:

This is a summary of a book!

Thanks!

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

so you are placing direct blame on dick cheney? (i havet read ALL of that yet, too much is directed and ""connected dots"" in wording for me right now, ill wait till im home).

eyes... getting so tired... too much reading... must sleep...

:sleep:

seriously, I'll have to take a look at that when I've got a bit more time, but I'm skeptical. it's possible to make a pretty persuassive case for a lot of things, like the idea that the moon landing actually occurred somewhere in the Navada desert. I'm pretty sure we went to the moon, though.

:wink:

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=eye-p][quote=Jenks]That's a neat story, even if your only source is one book.[/quote]

Maybe you should read the part where I say:

This is a summary of a book!

Thanks![/quote]

Yeah, neat story.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

finally read it all and hit up his website.

but i cant give it any more credit than an incredibly well researched conspiricy theory. bases it all on too many coincidences IMHO. well done though. i see where he is going.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=Jenks]That's a neat story, even if your only source is one book.[/quote]

Unfortunately thats not the only source. Cooperativeresearch.org has news stories which can back up what eye-p stated. These can't just be coincendences, just too many for that. The rest of the world is starting to see it , I recently read somewhere that 60% of Germany believes 9/11 was an inside job. Yet we don't even bother to look over the information, God forbid, question our leaders who clearly have motives. Before you deny it I think its only fair that you look over PNAC's directive, statements made in the past, the members, the numbers of "coincidences" that took place on 9/11. Why certian members of govt. stopped flying on planes prior to 9/11. The list is endless.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=thesightless]finally read it all and hit up his website.

but i cant give it any more credit than an incredibly well researched conspiricy theory. bases it all on too many coincidences IMHO. well done though. i see where he is going.[/quote]

I find it incredible that you can pass off everything as a coincidence. I'm not trying to take a jab at you but don't you even have questions?

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=neoee][quote=thesightless]finally read it all and hit up his website.

but i cant give it any more credit than an incredibly well researched conspiricy theory. bases it all on too many coincidences IMHO. well done though. i see where he is going.[/quote]

I find it incredible that you can pass off everything as a coincidence. I'm not trying to take a jab at you but don't you even have questions?[/quote]

Neoee- He didnt bother to read it. Neither did Jenks. Look at their responses. They are both sharp guys, and if they had actually read it, they would have at least had SOME questions.

When I first found out the truth, I felt like I had been kicked in the gut.

Sooner or later they will find out for themselves.

My offer still stands- I will be more than happy to point people in the direction of information regarding 9/11. Just ask.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

There's some debate over whether this is true but I think its safe to assume it is:

[quote]July 4-14, 2001: Bin Laden Reportedly Receives Lifesaving Treatment in Dubai, Said to Meet with CIA While There Bin Laden, America's most wanted criminal with a $5 million bounty on his head, supposedly receives lifesaving treatment for renal failure from American specialist Dr. Terry Callaway at the American hospital in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. He is possibly accompanied by Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri (who is said to be bin Laden's personal physician, al-Qaeda's second-in-command, and leader of Egypt's Islamic Jihad), plus several bodyguards. Callaway supposedly treated bin Laden in 1996 and 1998, also in Dubai. Callaway later refuses to answer any questions on this matter. [Le Figaro, 10/31/01; Agence France-Presse, 11/1/01; Times of London, 11/01/01] During his stay, bin Laden is visited by ?several members of his family and Saudi personalities,? including Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence. [Guardian, 11/1/01] On July 12, bin Laden reportedly meets with CIA agent Larry Mitchell in the hospital. Mitchell apparently lives in Dubai as an Arab specialist under the cover of being a consular agent. The CIA, the Dubai hospital, and even bin Laden deny the story. The two news organizations that broke the story, Le Figaro and Radio France International, stand by their reporting. [Le Figaro, 10/31/01; Radio France International, 11/1/01] The explosive story is widely reported in Europe, but there are only two, small wire service stories on it in the US. [UPI, 11/1/01; Reuters, 11/10/01] The Guardian claims that the story originated from French intelligence, ?which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.? The Guardian adds that during his stay bin Laden is also visited by a second CIA officer. [Guardian, 11/1/01] In 2003, reporter Richard Labeviere will provide additional details of what he claims happened in a book entitled ?The Corridors of Terror.? He claims he learned about the meeting from a contact in the Dubai hospital. He claims the event was confirmed in detail by a Gulf prince who presented himself as an adviser to the Emir of Bahrain. This prince claimed the meeting was arrange by Prince Turki al-Faisal, Saudi Arabia's intelligence director. The prince said, ?By organizing this meeting...Turki thought he could start direct negotiations between [bin Laden] and the CIA on one fundamental point: that bin Laden and his supporters end their hostilities against American interests.? In exchange, the CIA and Saudis would allow bin Laden to return to Saudi Arabia and live freely there. The meeting is said to be a failure. [Reuters, 11/14/03] On July 15, Larry Mitchell reportedly returns to CIA headquarters to report on his meeting with bin Laden. [Radio France International, 11/1/01] French terrorism expert Antoine Sfeir says the story of this meeting has been verified and is not surprising: It ?is nothing extraordinary. Bin Laden maintained contacts with the CIA up to 1998. These contacts have not ceased since bin Laden settled in Afghanistan. Up to the last moment, CIA agents hoped that bin Laden would return to the fold of the US, as was the case before 1989.? [Le Figaro, 11/1/01] A CIA spokesman calls the entire account of bin Laden's stay at Dubai ?sheer fantasy.? [Reuters, 11/14/03] People and organizations involved: Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda, Central Intelligence Agency, Terry Callaway, Larry Mitchell, Islamic Jihad, Turki bin Faisal bin Abdul Aziz al Saud[/quote]

Now my question is why was OBL not taken in?

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Al -CIAda. Plain and simple. They even admit it. Bin Laden was a CIA asset going back 25 years. They show US govt footage of Bin Laden at the Mujahadeen(sp) camps as stock footage on TV. You know the shot with OBL holding a 2 way radio, while tanks are rolling by?

Its like the pictures of Rumsfeld shaking Sadaam's hand in 1985 after we sold him chem weapons- which he used against Iran.

This stuff goes right down the memory hole.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

^^^^ eye-p is 100% correct with that. he was a CIA assest for a long time when he wanted to destabilize saudi arabia. our ghosts there were really fearing that the royal family was locking up the oil and beginning to gain too much influence there.

i did read the passage and mroe from the site eye-p. i still just cant connect all the dots in my mind. from how he linked some of that, im sure he could link any of us to 9/11. like he said, people have given us coincidental proof of a fake moon landing.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote]Neoee- He didnt bother to read it. Neither did Jenks. Look at their responses. They are both sharp guys, and if they had actually read it, they would have at least had SOME questions. [/quote]

i read the whole article EyeP, it's a neat story (for the third time).

I'll say this for a second time, I am fully aware the US is an equal opportunity mischief maker. 60% of Germans think it was an inside job? 100% of me doesn't care what Germany thinks. There are tons of shady things going on in our government, and there has been since the beginning of the USA.

Am i aware: yes. Do i think we can do anything about it? 200+ years says: no. 9/11 is going to be disected and conspiracy theoried for a century. FFS we're still wondering who killed kennedy, when most of us know it was an inside job.

So, it's a neat story man, and i can buy that as much as i can buy anything.

What do i have to do here to get you to acknowledge the fact that i can fathom your point?

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

we'd have to unequivocally agree with him.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=thesightless]sorry, should have been specific. eye-p, who do you think is responsible for what i asked before. im in the bin laden group, secondly, i attribute it to the creation of isreal and the hatred it generated in the region. too many mid eastern ppl say its all about us meddling with them by creating isreal and backing it all this time. from syria to yemen, they all consider isreal thier first and foremost enemy. many more preparing for something bigger now that isreal has shown a weakness by withdrawing from gaza. :( :|[/quote]

YOU are right on with the Israel connection. I believe every Bin Laden tape mentions some kind of link to Jews or Israel, and we are their primary backer.

I have several Muslim friends, and I dated an Iranian girl for a while. My Lybian friend who has lived in America for 30 years, and moved to the States during college, has told me how he was raised to HATE Jews. Through stories, jokes, and propaganda children are slanted to only think lowly of the Jewish people.

Now this friend, has friends who are Jewish, and he admits it is wrong what happens in the Muslim world, but he would never speak up to loudly for the fear of being killed. We have lots of Muslims in Atlanta, and I'm sure some could be considered extremist.

So it was a well deserved point, one which has been almost completely overlooked.

The Islamic world had been gearing up for this war much longer than we would expect. That is why they came from every direction to fight us in Iraq.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Yesterday (24th) eye-p wrote the following. Sorry I screwed up the quotes.

---

[quote="eye-p"]I will address these things 1 at a time.

3. Sudan NEVER offered Bin Laden to Clinton. Sorry. Never happened. The source of this story, a pakastani named Monsoor Ijaaz(sp) has been totally discredited and now shows up on Fox News occasionally. Further, the 9/11 commission also debunked the Sudan claim. So did Richard Clarke.[quote]

---

I'm sorry your simply wrong. Clinton was taped answering questions and he states very clearly that he had the opportunity to take Bin Laden from Sudan, but didn't think he had the evidence to hold him, so he tried to pass him to the Saudis, but they would not take him, so he ended up in Afghanistan.

You can say Clinton didn't have the opportunity all you want, but you are simply put Very Wrong. Clinton on tape is clear evidence over all other.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Dude, that was 1996. He hadnt committed a crime against the US in 1996.

So, if he didnt have EVIDENCE to hold him, then why should he, uh, hold him, exactly?

Are we now in the pre-crime business?

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=thesightless]i'd also add on the multiple calls for jihads against america. if your gonna call GW and DC war criminals, then bin laden has gotta be grouped with them. he did the same thing. ordered a war for asinine reasons. none of them actually fought. thing is, WE (USA) keep paper trails. he hides in a caves and sends videos to news agancies. bush could have overtly sent in a nuke and blown the shit out of bagdahd. outside of tracing nuclear elements to the our reactors, there wouldnt be much evidence he did it.

too much bullshit in the world today. :?

anyone wanna chip in a buy a secluded island? :P[/quote]

YES, YES, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! but it has to have an internet connection to MercuryServers. :JamesBro:

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

they wanted to take him, but the FBI admitted there was no ""concrete"" evidence to convict a foreigner in the USA under the multi national agreements for our courts. they had confessions and heresay, but all of it could be refuted as much as a "confession"" note can be refuted as a fake.

depart from political thinking for a sec please. trying to use this analogy to show what i mean above. in 94, a california assemblyman tried to get a BS law passed to curb rap's influence, he wanted to use thier lyrics as confessions to put them on trial. all they had to do was say ""i faked it" and they would lose credibility. if the law got passed, it was a win-win for him either way, 1. they get locked up or 2. they lose credibility

now interchange assmblyman with FBI, rappers with Bin laden and cronies. bin laden biggest asset is his credibility right now and has been for a long time. his money helps, but he received a lot of funding from middle eastern ppl, our CIA and im sure a few other agencies from various countries sympathetic to his cause.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

hahaha...

hey robprunzit...

you'll need to post your thoughts again sir. i tried to quote you and somehow ended up deleting your post.

sorry.

or maybe i'm involved in a big conspiracy!!!!!!!! :UnderCov:

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Interesting read.

A lot of those "War Games" and "coincidences" are disheartening for sure, and definetely interesting. Assuming some of that information isn't made up.

However the reasoning for all of this regarding "Peak Oil Time" and "Controlling the world" is a stretch if you ask me. A rather large one too.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=Civic_Zen]Interesting read.

A lot of those "War Games" and "coincidences" are disheartening for sure, and definetely interesting. Assuming some of that information isn't made up.

However the reasoning for all of this regarding "Peak Oil Time" and "Controlling the world" is a stretch if you ask me. A rather large one too.[/quote]

Wow. If thats what you find to be a stretch, I have got a few links that will clear up your questions:

[url]www.peakoil.net[/url] [url]www.peakoil.com[/url]

This will be the easiest to follow- watch the trailer: [url]www.endofsuburbia.com[/url]

Here is the letter that PNAC sent to Clinton in 1998. They call for Clinton to invade Iraq. In 1998. [url]http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm[/url]

Here is PNAC's defining document- Rebuilding America's Defenses. This is the document that calls for the US to assert military dominance in the ME in order to secure "resources" in light of peak oil.

[url]http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf[/url]

And here is a summary of that document: [url]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm[/url]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

THE END OF THE WORLD DOT COM

YOU'RE FUCKED DOT ORG

DIG A HOLE DOT NET

i'm seeing a trend in your links eye-p.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

he refuses to accept that people dont think like he does. all over the world certain groups want what teh PNAC wants, certain groups want chaos, certain groups want nazism back. last i looked humanity has been around for a long time, and we aint going anywhere.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

yeah, i just pinched myself, i'm doing pretty good.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=eye-p][quote=Civic_Zen]Interesting read.

A lot of those "War Games" and "coincidences" are disheartening for sure, and definetely interesting. Assuming some of that information isn't made up.

However the reasoning for all of this regarding "Peak Oil Time" and "Controlling the world" is a stretch if you ask me. A rather large one too.[/quote]

Wow. If thats what you find to be a stretch, I have got a few links that will clear up your questions:

[url]www.peakoil.net[/url] [url]www.peakoil.com[/url]

This will be the easiest to follow- watch the trailer: [url]www.endofsuburbia.com[/url]

Here is the letter that PNAC sent to Clinton in 1998. They call for Clinton to invade Iraq. In 1998. [url]http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm[/url]

Here is PNAC's defining document- Rebuilding America's Defenses. This is the document that calls for the US to assert military dominance in the ME in order to secure "resources" in light of peak oil.

[url]http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf[/url]

And here is a summary of that document: [url]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm[/url][/quote]

Obviously you completely misunderstood what I said.

I know what the "Peak Oil" term was in reference too, but I don't think thats reason enough to kill 5,000+ Innocent (and FELLOW) American's in order to provoke a war that will lead to all of this.

Thats a stretch of absolute gargantuan magnitude. But believe what you want. I acknowledge that a lot of the read was interesting, and even disheartening (assuming its true). Some of those coincidences look really serious (once again, assuming they're true) but the reasons the article gave for Chenney to initiate such a plan just don't do it for me. Maybe you see America as trying to take over the world and rule all, I don't see that. If thats the best reason you can give then it just reitterates my Tin-Foil Hat argument. The motive just isn't there in my mind for mass murder on that scale, it IS there for the terrorist organizations that have wanted to bring down the WTC since day one.

Everyone knew that was bin Laden's and his organizations main goal, they thought it would do more to the economy then it actually did. And not just to us, to the entire Western market structure. Why do you think they attempted it previously, and then stated on Al-Jazira (sp?) publically and globally that they wouldn't stop until the WTC had fallen. Hell even our own economy thought it would be worse after it happened, and it definetely could have been A LOT worse. So without the whole pinky and the brain scenerio, where we rule the world - why would we do this then? For the sake of our economy? And our way of life? You don't see the irony in attempting to destroy an economy with the intent of saving it?? I would make sure you wear rubber soled shoes as well.

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[quote=Jenks]hahaha...

hey robprunzit...

you'll need to post your thoughts again sir. i tried to quote you and somehow ended up deleting your post.

sorry.

or maybe i'm involved in a big conspiracy!!!!!!!! :UnderCov:[/quote]

CONSPIRACY CONSPIRACY Your trying to cover up my arguments, I see the plan, its the end, were all on the edge, Bin Laden is next door having tea and crumbcake with Cheney, OH MY GOD! Kill me now. Please. :unsure: :Weirdoz : :lol:

Civic, welcome back. Long time no argue :D

eye-p may point out peak oil as the reason for 9/11, the war ect. and while I do agree (fine call me a nutcase), I think its only part of the picture.

As world population increases resources will dwindle and wars resulting from the lack of will increase. Right now we can say energy is the motivating factor but even if we get over this hurdle don't you think a think tank like PNAC would consider it best interest to be in a dominating position for when say food, becomes a scarcity? How about other resources? Look around you what basic resources were used to make the products you use day to day. Woods, clays, sand, etc. Simply put, the world population will outweigh the resources available. Personally I think the market will dictate but groups like PNAC feel otherwise.

Even if you do see the myriad of anomalies relating to 9/11 as just coincidences, certianly you can see the motivations for PNAC, and if not just go to their website- its not hidden.

[url]http://www.newamericancentury.org[/url]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

again. be fair. they are allowed to think like that.

i have been begging us to send out radio calls to outerspace for an alien invasion for years now. if only to unite humanity. does that make me wrong? not for me.

personally i think the ACLU is terribly wrong for petitioning to US to give prisoners more privelige, ban death penalty, and give illegals legal protection in the US court systems.

((side bar)) here in Long Island NY we have the largest population of salvadorian immigrants coming in illegally. the ACLU has fought hand and teeth to protect them from being evicted from homes becuase the landlord doesnt like 40 of them living on one floor of a house, the local citizens are losing jobs at an ever increasing rate(b/c unions are not strong here) and frankly, every neighborhood they move into loses property value drastically while NYS increases property taxes every year. they are killing our communities and they think they are right for protecting people who really dont even live here legally.