[quote=skahound]-e-, you don't happen to have any information pertaining to this experiment do you? A link or something. This kind of stuff fascinates me and is one of the reasons I thoroughly enjoy reading Hawking, Thorne, Weinberg, etc.[/quote]

Weinberg is the man!!! My friend from Calgary got his PhD dealing with SuperString Theory just last year working with Weinberg. Weinberg doesn't take many grad students, but took my friend under his wings and quickly brough him to M.I.T. 2 years back. My friend was only 22 when he finished his PhD :shock:

You might have caught the Nova Episode: The Elegant Universe. That was the 2 part show where the host Brian Greene walks you through some of the concepts of superstring theory in a very entertaining manner.
Now that I mention this show, damn, I'm pissed I forgot to tape those 2 shows.

[quote=bananapeel]You might have caught the Nova Episode: The Elegant Universe. That was the 2 part show where the host Brian Greene walks you through some of the concepts of superstring theory in a very entertaining manner.
Now that I mention this show, damn, I'm pissed I forgot to tape those 2 shows.[/quote]

I just downloaded this via Bittorrent, so I'm sure its still available. Haven't had a chance to watch it thought.

[quote=neoee][quote=bananapeel]You might have caught the Nova Episode: The Elegant Universe. That was the 2 part show where the host Brian Greene walks you through some of the concepts of superstring theory in a very entertaining manner.
Now that I mention this show, damn, I'm pissed I forgot to tape those 2 shows.[/quote]

I just downloaded this via Bittorrent, so I'm sure its still available. Haven't had a chance to watch it thought.[/quote]

I'll be figuring out this bittorrent thingy shortly. Haven't tried bittorrent yet :shock:
But, yeah, thanks for the heads up neoee!! :Bingo: (and also you're signature had me really, really cracking up :RockOn:)

no no yes.

Re: To revive an old topic...

Taking the time travel spin, have you guys heard about the movie Primer? Everyone over at Aintitcoolnews went absolutely crazy about it.

[url]http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=18397[/url]

Here's the story description from the official website:

"PRIMER is set in the industrial park/suburban tract-home fringes of an unnamed contemporary city where two young engineers, Abe and Aaron, are members of a small group of men who work by day for a large corporation while conducting extracurricular experiments on their own time in a garage. While tweaking their current project, a device that reduces the apparent mass of any object placed inside it by blocking gravitational pull, they accidentally discover that it has some highly unexpected capabilities--ones that could enable them to do and to have seemingly anything they want. Taking advantage of this unique opportunity is the first challenge they face. Dealing with the consequences is the next."

[url]http://www.primermovie.com/[/url]

From what I've read, this movie approaches the subject of time travel more realistically than any other film before it. It seems that you cannot watch this movie without believing what is actually happening on the screen. It's that realistic. I think it was made with only $7000 or some crazy small amount like that and won some awards at Sundance. I wanted to see it here in Atlanta when it played for 5 days in a downtown independent film theater but never got the chance. It looks like I'll just have to wait for the DVD. Following this thread makes me think that you guys really need to look into this flick. Have fun.

Re: To revive an old topic...

[quote=gr8pumpkin]

[url]http://www.primermovie.com/[/url]

[/quote]

Will definitely check it out, thanks for the heads up. On a related topic, if any of you get the chance, I strongly urge you to read a fascinating book that explores OOBEs (Out of Body Experiences) and Astral Projection using experiments conducted with willing participants. Never in my life has a book had me glued to the pages as this one did. [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385231822/qid=1105193103/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-9780203-5270319]'Far Journeys' by Robert Monroe[/url]

i think time travel as we see it in movies will never be posible. the time travel you guys are talking about is based on speed increase. the cern experiment, was just that (or what i understand from it) the time it would take for the particle/ beam to arrive at an increased speed was calculated. when the beam was fired it arrived faster than anticipated. is that time travel? or di the beams behavior become unpredictable

that theory that it would take a year to travel to andromeda and a year back and that every person that the traveler left behind would be dead by 2025 years, is kinda like the two clock scenario . so speding up slows time, humans could never travel at the speed of light, or any mass for that matter... mass increases the faster it goes, right?..

life in other planets... of course there is . will we be able to find it anytime soon i doubt it ... if they were smarter they would be here by now. fully visible and not just probing hillbilly ass.. otherwise they dont give a rats ass.

with new technologies and new materials space travel will become easier and cheaper. we wont necessarily see any dockings at other planets in our lifetime, butwe'll see the space tours become popular

36 years ago we first landed on the moon. 3 months ago the first commercial "space plane" (SpaceShipOne) flew its first two consecutive flights into space. Within the next 72 years, we'll definitely see people start landing on the moon... may even see some sort of base on it at the rate we're going

Some seriously interesting shit, I've now got 8 new tabs in Firefox to check out. This is gonna hurt my head....

Yes, some form of life will be found pretty soon I reckon No, not likely, but who knows what's round the corner? Yes, whether it's affordable or just for the super rich only it ain't that far away.

Now how about we revive *** [NSFW] WTF?!? ***

Re: To revive an old topic...

[quote=skahound] Will definitely check it out, thanks for the heads up. On a related topic, if any of you get the chance, I strongly urge you to read a fascinating book that explores OOBEs (Out of Body Experiences) and Astral Projection using experiments conducted with willing participants. Never in my life has a book had me glued to the pages as this one did. [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385231822/qid=1105193103/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-9780203-5270319]'Far Journeys' by Robert Monroe[/url][/quote]

pumkin- will definately be checking the movie out.

ska- I've been looking into Astral Projection myself. So much so that I actually tried Silva which some people are marketing as being able to help you project (but it really is just kind of a wierd high). I used to do it all the time, unknowningly, when I was younger. I think everyone does (usually the feeling of flying). But since I've been an adult its been far and few in between (much like the deja vu experiances). I found my self projecting one morning but when I realized it I was falling back into my body.

Its said that time travel is possible with AP, since you are no longer bound by the laws of physics. I'm going to have to check that book out, sounds really good. I think I've heard of Monroe. Is he the guy that had money mysteriously appearing in his pockets? If your interested in AP there's a free web course online which begins every 6 weeks or so. Seems like there no catch, but I haven't gone through it since it requires a comittment (an hour a day) to do the excersises. Here's the link if your interested: [url]http://www.mysticweb.org/phps/netclasses/[/url]

remoh- I don't think we will see time travel being done with speed increases as the current crop of experiment are looking towards but rather rips or warps opened in space-time. Check out the rumoured information on the Montauk project. [url=http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=montauk&Number=11744&Forum=montauk&Words=1997&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=11741&Search=true#Post11744]Here's[/url] a post I found that really covers things pretty well.

[quote=picklemonkey]Now how about we revive *** [NSFW] WTF?!? ***[/quote]

I'll take porn section.

Anywayz, this time traveling thing...Quantummechanics have different rules than the ordinary world, but even 'time travelling' as described with the light beam isn't really the time travelling we're talking about here. Technically, yes, but I think the principle is way different.

We're talking about time as a dimension of free movement. We needed planes to get off the ground, maybe we need something alike to get off the 'present'. But what that is going to be.... :?:

[quote=Yao]but even 'time travelling' as described with the light beam isn't really the time travelling we're talking about here. Technically, yes, but I think the principle is way different. [/quote]

We have to start somewhere though. Maybe this experiment is just the beginning and will lead to an even bigger breakthrough.

[quote=Yao]We needed planes to get off the ground, maybe we need something alike to get off the 'present'. But what that is going to be.... :?:[/quote] We accelerated planes to achieve flight, so we should accelerate light to achieve time travel.

The question is light is what makes time travel possible, although...will post some rantings about this later...have to take a shower first. :mrgreen:

light can time travel ...everything else has too much mass.

^^ Bingo.... and I personally think that speed of light conecpt has been too far overblown out of proportion.... two of the biggest reasons to travel closer to the speed of light are for A) Time travel and B) To cover the enormous distances in space.... both of which can and will eventually be covered by different principals derived from Quantum Physics (and obviously Mechanics).

The basic regime behind travelling great distances is covering a whole lot of ground. So if you were able to bend space and time around each other in a gravitational bubble, you could essentially cover a distance much greater than what light would cover in the same amount of time.

Prime example of this concept is covered in the Movie "Event Horizon". Will this help us cover the basics of Time Travel - I dont know but I'm darn sure it wouldn't be too hard since the ideology of using Time as a premise is not even considered in this concept.

For me, even living today is Time Travel. I imagine what we experience as time is in fact a spin off of light i.e. the slow down in the speed of light is what is left as time.

Take for a simple instance, the edges of the universe are / were expanding at the speed of light and have been doing so for roughly about 13 1/2 billion years. Now obvsiously we are located way towards the center since our solar system and surrounding reegions are NOT travelling at the speed of light (I think the earth is travelling at 21,000 - roughly - km/sec)

So since we are not travelling at the speed of light, we are experiencing a by-product of it called time.... why do I say that ? simple.... Time stands still at the speed of light.....

(food for thought)

-e-

[quote=Encryption] Take for a simple instance, the edges of the universe are / were expanding at the speed of light and have been doing so for roughly about 13 1/2 billion years.

(food for thought)

[/quote]

What blows my mind is the fact that space is infinite, yet the universe is constantly expanding. What is it expanding to?

^^ The palm of God..... and on the other palm is the parallel universe....

-e-

have you guys read about the space elevator? ...supodsedly it could be done within 25 years

[url]http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.html[/url]

space travel for everyone could easily be possible and very soon if they found a way to take the same nuclear power that powers submarines and found a way to keep it safe when travelling though the atmosphere and re-entry. IMHO at least.

Light DOES have a mass, and a friction coefficient, because it has a maximum speed. This fact is imo also backed up by the fact that light is made out of measurable particles, photons. Particle = mass, no matter how small it is.

So, how would we remove the speed limit other than by using enormous amounts of energy? I know there have been tests with antimatter that have show a great energetic potential, but they're not nearly capable of harnessing the particles or the energy... And if you travel faster than light: will there even be light when you surpass it? Could you see the future, even if you were in it?

:?:

the real question is (ignoring all friction) if you sitting at the tip of something moving at the speed of light, and then stood up, wouldn't you body's rising motion make you move faster than the speed of light, :?:

PUT THAT IN YOUR HASH PIPE AND SMOKE IT :!: :RockOn:

That would depend on the possibility of speeds exceeding that of light...

If it's impossible, you'd either be frozen or travelling just a bit below lightspeed to compensate. My guess..

[quote=thesightless]the real question is (ignoring all friction) if you sitting at the tip of something moving at the speed of light, and then stood up, wouldn't you body's rising motion make you move faster than the speed of light, :?:

PUT THAT IN YOUR HASH PIPE AND SMOKE IT :!: :RockOn:[/quote]

no that wouldn't .... because you are moving at the speed of getting up on a stationary position that's travelling at the speed of light....

the earth is revoloving at 21,000 kp/hr, if you run a 100 mr. dash, that wont make your speed 21,000 kp/hr + your running speed...

same if the principal of the fly that's flying around in the car..... it's not flying at 60 m/hr

-e-

Yeah a total frame of reference issue. Get some Lorentz factors and time dilation in play (won't time have stopped at that point? doubt you would be moving much) and then I'd like to see you stand on top of something moving at the speed of light ;)

But then there's still my other issue, and I'm REALLY curious to that: is there light beyond lightspeed?

[quote=Yao]But then there's still my other issue, and I'm REALLY curious to that: is there light beyond lightspeed?[/quote]

No. Don't ask me why... but no.

-Psynce-

1. Yes.
2. Yes,
3. Yes, Virgin are already offering deals for 2008.

[quote=Yao]But then there's still my other issue, and I'm REALLY curious to that: is there light beyond lightspeed?[/quote]

that's an EXTREMELY interesting question and my guess is no because if light cant reach there, there's no light, unless light has already passed through that area before....

-e-

But if the answer is no...no light is no seeing, and therefore no being?

So, if that was a given law of nature, then future would not exist, unless we could send light ahead of us. Which means it's not [i]you[/i] that has to to travel first, but [i]light[/i]. You'd have to stay a bit behind in order to actually see the future...

[quote=Yao]But if the answer is no...no light is no seeing, and therefore no being?

So, if that was a given law of nature, then future would not exist, unless we could send light ahead of us. Which means it's not [i]you[/i] that has to to travel first, but [i]light[/i]. You'd have to stay a bit behind in order to actually see the future...[/quote]

I dont think thats correct either, you dont need light for life to exist, you need water..... in the deepest parts of the deepest oceans on earth, there are creatures that live next to heating vents (from the core of the earth) which warm the waters around that area, there is absolutely NO LIGHT over there.... these creatures create their own light by lighting up their bodies (the aliens in the movie Abyss are based on such creatures)...... light never makes it to this depth, yet there is enormous amounts of undiscovered life down there

-e-

Dillemma....I know what you mean, but how am I going to explain what I mean...

uhm...if light is time (the NOW, so to say)...shit. Again.

Take time as a dark road, somewhere in the desert. Now imagine a car driving on the road with it's headlights on. Only light you can see in the whole place. The car is [b]now[/b]. Now the road could be there, or could not be there, before and after the car. Suppose all the dark surroundings aren't there, like in the 'Langoliers', but then without the eaters: material presence isn't there before or after 'now'. The road only exists where the car touches it...

It's not about no light no being, it's about no time/light, no being. I don't see time like a series of strings, each representing a possibility, I look at it as empty space, to be filled with 'now' when it passes by.

How can something exist when time hasn't touched it yet? And furthermore: could time be regarded as an entity that can be manipulated?

U still with me...? :mrgreen:

are you refering to the expansion of the universe at the speed of light as opposed to the slowing down pieces from the big bang which are NOT travelling at the speed of light (i.e. earth) and so there's evolution on earth because of time ?

I cannot imagine how light on its own could create life ...... there would have to be a series of IF and THEN situations to support it....

-e-

No, it has nothing to do with all that.

The situation is there, a given fact. But that's what's supposed to be ahead of us, is not yet touched by time if you connect it to light speed, or any other speed for that matter. Because speed is a limited number (like the speed of light). In that case, future could only be possible when there's no limit on the speed of light.

For me, it also implies that time is not omnipresent, but only existent in the now and past. Now look at it vertically: We're standing on the ground: present. Under us is various layers of sand, with remains of what has been there before us. Above us, only air. Nothing. Are you getting what I'm trying to say now?

And to make it worse...what I'm saying is: there's no layers under us. History is what we take with us in our minds, it's not a physical presence beneath our feet. It's in our heads, it's written in books. But it's not there anymore.

We make our own future... :RockOn:

-Psynce-

yao I'm 2 cups of coffee down and you're really twisting me up on a tuesday bro :lol: :lol:

ok I'm sorta getting what you're saying and correct me if I'm wrong.... you're refering to the fact that if we are living the present and the present turns into the past, to be able to reach a point in the future, light would have to have travelled faster than itself to create a future which we would eventually live but since its the present that's going on, we're living at the edges of time ?

-e-

^^ Yes, I think he means that we're living at the edges of time. I think we make time "bigger" as we're evolving in the future. Time goes with us. Not us with time.

-Psynce-

[quote=PsynceFiction[MS]]^^ Yes, I think he means that we're living at the edges of time. I think we make time "bigger" as we're evolving in the future. Time goes with us. Not us with time.

-Psynce-[/quote]

I doubt Time goes with us, in a philosophical sense, Time will go with us and when we die, time stands still for us but in a realistic sense, we follow time because if time stands still, we will not age....

-e-

[quote=PsynceFiction[MS]]^^ Yes, I think he means that we're living at the edges of time. I think we make time "bigger" as we're evolving in the future. Time goes with us. Not us with time.

-Psynce-[/quote]

[b]Exactly![/b]

But...time and our existence our intertwined (correct expression?). We are one.