Have you heard about this? Facebook has been taking down pictures of women breastfeeding on the basis that it violates its no-nudity policy, and the women have revolted, starting a group called, [SIZE=-1]“Hey Facebook, breastfeeding is not obscene.” This could be the silliest dispute I've ever heard.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]I guess Facebook's position is that they have a no-nudity policy and regardless of the reason for the nudity, if you can see a nipple, it's got to come down. I should note that Facebook is not actively searching out these photos -- just taking them down when others flag them -- and is not removing breastfeeding photos where you can't see the nipple.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Time and place, IMO. If you want to breastfeed, so be it. If you want to breastfeed and insist that it be captured on film, that's your prerogative as well. The idea that you should be [I]entitled [/I]to showcase photos of yourself breastfeeding on a social networking site that has nothing to do with breastfeeding at all, though, is just absurd.

One of the reasons the group has given for being upset at the policy is that it eliminates an educational tool. This is preposterous. Facebook is not a medical site or even a parenting site, and if you're going [B]there [/B]to learn about breastfeeding, perhaps your child isn't destined for great things.

We're actually pretty close to having our first daughter, and my wife and I have both been struck by this militant strain of breastfeeders that have developed. Maybe it's just that I'm sorta in the thick of it now, but I don't recall a woman's right to whip out a boob wherever she may be being so hotly contested up until fairly recently. Our doula was very adamant about this idea that you [B]should [/B]feed in restaurants, malls, parks, wherever you may be, and you [B]should not[/B] wear any sort of cover or anything. She even gave everyone in the class a little card to carry around declaring your legal right to breastfeed wherever you damn well please.

OK, so maybe you have the right to, but why would you [B]want [/B]to, and why would it be [B]important [/B]to show the world while you're doing it? [/SIZE]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Regardless of what women feel like doing with their body, show their nipples/breastfeeding/nudity etc etc... everyone is free to express himself the way he sees it fit.

Personally, I couldn't wait to slash some pix of mine on facebook (which would have been disastrous for their server lol), but then it go it me thinking that there are many young people and children members of facebook, so the place didn't seem very appropriate to me to do that.

So I chose the nastiest and loveliest place to do that: [COLOR=DarkOrange][B] MERCURYSERVER :D

[/B][/COLOR]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

^ more nude pics please! ;)

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[quote=Shiva;702616]Regardless of what women feel like doing with their body, show their nipples/breastfeeding/nudity etc etc... everyone is free to express himself the way he sees it fit.

Personally, I couldn't wait to slash some pix of mine on facebook (which would have been disastrous for their server lol), but then it go it me thinking that there are many young people and children members of facebook, so the place didn't seem very appropriate to me to do that.

So I chose the nastiest and loveliest place to do that: [COLOR=DarkOrange][B] MERCURYSERVER :D [/B][/COLOR][/quote]

First of all, I think I speak for most everyone when I say that you can feel free to keep posting pictures of yourself here to your heart's content. :LoveYou:

For me, it's really a question of having control over your own site. Facebook has a rule that prohibits posting pictures that include nudity and, as a private company, it is 100% within its rights to have that policy and project whatever image they want to their members (and advertising clients). A picture of a breast that would otherwise violate the rules does not lose that character because there happens to be a child suckling on it. If women want to post pictures of themselves breastfeeding, they can start their own sites devoted to that topic and post away (which incidentally might be a better source of actual information for prospective mothers than, uh, Facebook). My biggest problem with this whole flap is telling a private entity that they have to accept a pic that would otherwise be in violation of their policy because it happens to depict breastfeeding or anything else that the poster would like to promote.

There are plenty of other non-salacious examples of nudity that are nevertheless in violation of the rules -- not really fair to put Facebook in the position of having to moderate what is art vs porn, what is offensive vs beautiful. Apparently, they developed that policy in part to have to avoid making those kind of calls.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

how about public breast feeding , i see that every day In Mexico, USA , Peru and all those countries have this law that public nudity is immoral.

and how about man tits are those immoral too??

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[quote=Haziel;702676]how about public breast feeding , i see that every day In Mexico, USA , Peru and all those countries have this law that public nudity is immoral.

and how about man tits are those immoral too??[/quote]

^ Do they produce? :lol:

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[QUOTE=Shiva;702680]^ Do they produce? :lol:[/QUOTE]

what do you mean produce? produce what???

shame on you shiva :oops::oops::oops::lol::lol::lol:

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

personally, i couldnt give a shit, just try not breast feeding at restaurants. thats it. cimple request. i dont wanna see it while im eating, other than that, u could feed on the jumbotron in times square and it wouldnt bother me.

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The thing at issue here is that it's a big deal to these women.

If they weren't being aggressive about it, demanding that Facebook should allow them to post pictures of themselves breastfeeding, and instead just cooperated, then I bet that the general public sentiment would be more forgiving, and would actually result in more public tolerance. But being obnoxious about it isn't going to work.

What next? Can I post pictures of myself taking a shit? Why not? It's a human function that I HAVE to do. There's nothing wrong with it. Let's start a group that campaigns for the freedom to post pictures on Facebook of people taking a shit! It's only fair.

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^^^ That post is so bad in so many ways !!!!

You compare feeding your baby the best possible way to having a shit !!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Who cares about public sentiment, when you are doing the best thing for your child. ??? They don't have to be forgiven :evil:

Now to the issue here. Basically if the rule is no breast feeding I think Facebook is wrong. Breast feeding is a wonderful thing, [unlike shitting] and I can understand why they want to share some of the wonder. Even on Facebook :lol: However if it is simply a matter of not showing nipples I think they are wrong. It's easy enough to breast feed without actually showing a nipple.

The isues of nudity and the issues of breast feeding are not the same, guys !!

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I think this is ridiculous. If I'm not mistaken, Facebook is [I]privately owned[/I] (not that it would make a difference in the argument logic even if they were publicly owned). Founder Mark Zuckerberger and his gang own the whole thing; they can do whatever the hell they want to with it, so long as it is not illegal. They are not National Geographic, they don't need to answer to a bunch of crazed women, and there is nothing in the Constitution that says they can't monitor or limit your use of their own product. For better or for worse, they have decided to conform their site with conventional social norms, which generally say something along the lines that men can be topless at a beach but women can't. Why? I honestly don't know! But if you don't like it, stop using their product and go start your own topless Facebook.

Speaking of which, there are other ways in which these women can share their breastfeeding pictures, if they really feel they must (although I honestly have no idea why they'd feel so strongly about it). They can set up a google group or make their own website for cheap. They can get some sort of a usenet group. There are enough options out there.

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Breastfeeding > bottled milk. However, Isn't breastfeeding a intimate and private thing? They should create a service called respectively -- Motherbook.

Sometimes there is nothing more relieving than unleashing a payload of poo after enduring the anguish of holding it in for a long duration of time. Also, it's a physical discharge function, like breastfeeding (though this nurtures lol), so why post it? ...brb uploading pics of myself shitting.

Not a fan of Facebook, mine remains deactivated.

This is your brain mind on Facebook.

[IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6189/458nz8.gif[/IMG]

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[QUOTE=DIDI;702812]You compare feeding your baby the best possible way to having a shit !!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: [/QUOTE]

shitting is the best possible way for a person to get rid of shit and there's nothing disgusting about it at all.

at least, not any more disgusting than watching chunky white fluid being sucked out of a flabby appendage by a fledgling human.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

^^ lol cute

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Sammwalk , Did I say shitting was disgusting.?? But the fact is it has an unfortunate stinking result which is why we don't do it while we are eating!! Well most of us don't . Perhaps with your attitude you do ! I really hope you never breed .

For all you indignant private enterprise men, Facebook sells itself as a social net work. Plus there is so much more on there that is really offensive every minute of every day. I'm actually quite shocked at the male attitude here to breast feeding.

AS I said if it is the nipple that is a problem, hide it. If it is the breast feeding open your minds. Private or not should be up to the individual to decide.

[QUOTE]watching chunky white fluid being sucked out of a flabby appendage by a fledgling human. [/QUOTE] Btw that reads more like a blow job than breast feeding.

Just for the record and in case you haven't noticed I really don't like facebook anyway.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[QUOTE=DIDI;702826]Sammwalk , Did I say shitting was disgusting.?? [/QUOTE]

But it is disgusting. We just don't need to see it. On Facebook.

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Hey, I'm all for breastfeeding, have no problem with it. But Facebook's status as a social networking product does not mean that it must follow democratic conventions. They've decided to follow a policy that closely conforms to social norms, which basically say that bare female breasts in public [I]for whatever reason[/I] are generally something that is not supported. And no, I can't defend why it's ok for men to be topless at the beach but not for women. And maybe that should all change. But Facebook is not mandated to fight those battles. Breastfeeding in public is not illegal, but I really don't see women with babies whipping out tits in the food court when I go to the mall...not because they can't, but because they just don't feel comfortable with it. For that matter, I wouldn't feel comfortable going around the food court in the mall with no shirt on. That's the power that social norms have over us, for better or for worse.

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Neither are disgusting. Just different functions, with very different results.

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No nudity does not mean Facebook is anti-breasfeeding. So these women are choosing to interpret Facebook's no nudity policy as an affront to breastfeeding, which is entirely their personal take. Facebook is just being objective on a stand it made and is sticking to.

So it's really these aggro militant women's problem if they choose to read into, or look for excuses in which the world is anti-breastfeeding. If you go down that path, then they should go up in arms against Nestle and all the companies that produce milk powder for babies, cos they can just as easily interpret that as anti-breastfeeding.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[QUOTE=Miroslav;702830]Hey, I'm all for breastfeeding, have no problem with it. But just because Facebook is a social networking product does [I]not[/I] mean that it must follow democratic conventions, that's all. They've decided to follow a strict convention that conforms to social norms, which say that bare female breasts in public [I]for whatever reason[/I] are generally something that is not supported. And no, I don't know why men can go to the beach topless and women generally can't. And maybe that should change. All I'm saying is that Facebook is not mandated to battle those social norms. Breastfeeding in public is not illegal, but I really don't see women with babies whipping out tits in the food court when I go to the mall...because they just don't feel comfortable with it. For that matter, I wouldn't feel comfortable going around the food court in the mall with no shirt on. That's the power of social norm.[/QUOTE] I'm surprised the attitudes in Australia are so much better. Firstly we can and do go to the beach topless if we want to. You will quite often see women breast feeding in food courts or sitting in the park. Babies can be quite difficult if they are not fed when they want. Bread feeding here is mostly looked at as a huge plus not just something you "don't have a problem with'".

Personally it is not something I would particularly want to do, but I fully support those who want to . I really don't care much about Face books attitude either ! I would not go on there doing anything.!! I was far more worried about what was said here.

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[QUOTE=feather;702833]No nudity does not mean Facebook is anti-breasfeeding. So these women are choosing to interpret Facebook's no nudity policy as an affront to breastfeeding, which is entirely their personal take. Facebook is just being objective on a stand it made and is sticking to.

So it's really these aggro militant women's problem if they choose to read into, or look for excuses in which the world is anti-breastfeeding. If you go down that path, then they should go up in arms against Nestle and all the companies that produce milk powder for babies, cos they can just as easily interpret that as anti-breastfeeding.[/QUOTE] Actually what is their ruling no nipple, or no breast feeding ,or both. ???

Actually Someone on a local forum put up phptos that were on Facebook of a female flashing the boobs at a festival, that seems to be alright so perhaps it is just the breast feeding. So if you're flashing your tits at a music festival fine! If you want to put up pics of one of the best things you can do for your child, you are an aggro militant woman. ???

The argument about nestle is a bit disingenuous, a lot of women for one reason or another aren't able to breast feed and need those companies.

Btw My take is not that Facebook is anti breast feeding, it's just incredibly hypocritical.

Just reread Toasty's original post and I agree with a lot of it, and apparently it is just the nipple that is a problem.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[QUOTE]Facebook bars people from uploading anything "obscene, pornographic or sexually explicit" — a policy that translates into a ban on pictures depicting certain amounts of exposed flesh.[/QUOTE]

Facebook doesn't enforce this all the time, they step in and remove pictures that are flagged by other users.

So some other people flagged those pics as obscene, and they were removed.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[quote=Haziel;702718]what do you mean produce? produce what???

shame on you shiva :oops::oops::oops::lol::lol::lol:[/quote]

:oops:

ma bad :lol:

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

They are using facebooks free service. It clearly states in the the terms and use that no nudity is allowed. Facebook usually allows anything as long as others don't flag it. This is ridiculous...

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Milky Milky!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXMapqiDsqs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x-GuKK9OGM&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW130HHz7SQ&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZN1odWA7_A&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Great :D

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

I feel compelled to point out that I have no problem with breastfeeding - my issue here is with a group needlessly dragging Facebook, a social networking site that has nothing to do with breastfeeding whatsoever, into a dispute it went out of its way to avoid. Not everyone should be required to stake out a position on this issue.

This does, however, bring me to a related point, and that is the enormous pressure put on women to breastfeed by these sorts of groups. For reasons I won't bore you with, breastfeeding is not an option for my wife. Yes, we realize it's the most nutritious way to feed your child. Yes, we realize that it builds a strong bond between mother and child. Yes, we realize there are all kinds of other benefits to breast feeding over bottle feeding. It's just not an option.

I've been stunned, though, at the reaction we get from some folks when they learn that we would deign to bottle feed our child. I thought our doula was going to kick us out of the class -- it was pretty uncomfortable. The irony is that our friends -- the people that know us -- know our situation and get it. Strangers, however, greet this news with either a look that conveys that they think that we're endangering the health of our child, or a look that lets us know how pathetic we are, often accompanied by admonitions that we MUST breastfeed. When did it become socially acceptable to browbeat someone you've just met for the unforgivable sin of using formula?

[/rant]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

I'm sure breast milk is only as healthy as the mothers diet.. correct?

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[QUOTE=Steve Graham;702951]I'm sure breast milk is only as healthy as the mothers diet.. correct?[/QUOTE]

I think that's basically accurate, although in fairness to breastfeeders, I think the default would be that it's really healthy, unless the mother does something to mess that up. Also, because it comes directly from the mother that gave birth to the child, it's "fine-tuned," if you will, for that child. Formula, I think, paints with a broader brush.

No doubt about it, it is the easiest way to ensure your child is being properly nourished. Whether it is the [B]best[/B], though, depends upon your overall situation. I'll happily concede that it is a great way to go for a lot of people if those people would quit laying a mountain of guilt on my wife. The attitude we get from some people just seems so holier-than-thou at times...

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instead of laying a guilt trip on women for choosing not to breast feed, maybe they should "attack" the selfish mothers to be that still smoke and drink whilst pregnant.. seeing a pregnant woman lighting up makes me fucking angry

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hey we've all been there!

i dont see what the problem is!

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^^^ :shock: How long did you be breast feed for ?? :lol:

[QUOTE=Steve Graham;702958]instead of laying a guilt trip on women for choosing not to breast feed, maybe they should "attack" the selfish mothers to be that still smoke and drink whilst pregnant.. seeing a pregnant woman lighting up makes me fucking angry[/QUOTE]

I think they probably would do that anyway:) But while we're at it lets also stop the guys who think that once they have done their bit, they can smoke around pregnant women :) And there are probably more of them simply because more men smoke.

I'm obviously a staunch supporter of breast feeding, but I certainly wouldn't look down on any women who was unable to do it. I'm sorry that happens to you Toasty. :(

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[quote=toasty;702949]

I've been stunned, though, at the reaction we get from some folks when they learn that we would deign to bottle feed our child. I thought our doula was going to kick us out of the class -- it was pretty uncomfortable. The irony is that our friends -- the people that know us -- know our situation and get it. Strangers, however, greet this news with either a look that conveys that they think that we're endangering the health of our child, or a look that lets us know how pathetic we are, often accompanied by admonitions that we MUST breastfeed. When did it become socially acceptable to browbeat someone you've just met for the unforgivable sin of using formula?

[/rant][/quote]

Because like any other fanatical group, everyone gets up on their high horses. Nothing more dangerous than people who believe they're right.

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We just finished repoduction and women's health in med school, and in defense of Toasty and his wife and every other woman who chooses NOT to breast feed.... While breast feeding is known to be better than forumal (signifcantly better, for both mother and child) its a total bitch to do. Every two hours or so the breasts will start to ache painfully if not drained. If you dont feed or pump them the may start to leak. Try going to a busniness meeting in that situation. Sorry, can you guys wait while I go pump my milk out. Sorry, gotta go change my shirt as my breasts are leaking again.

What does insurance do to help? Provides 1 hand pump. Do you konw how much work that is to handpump the milk out? Takes like 20 minutes. The machines can do it much more quickly and easy, but you are going to have to pay a few hundred out of pocket for that.

What does our government do to promote it? Give discounts on forumula (WIC). Fricken brilliant. Rather than given incentives to women to help compensate for the time and effort of breast feeding, they take the easy way out and just hand out forumla.

Its a frustrating situation and choice for every woman. People just need to keep their mouths shut about what another woman should do and let her decide what works for her, her lifstyle and her child.

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[QUOTE]Its a frustrating situation and choice for every woman. People just need to keep their mouths shut about what another woman should do and let her decide what works for her, her lifstyle and her child[/QUOTE].^^^ Spot on !!!. But breast feeding does not have to be that hard for every women and for the majority of women it is isn't . !!

Feather, The human race is indeed very dangerous :lol:

:shock: Breast feeding women = fanatics . :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp:

As usual people judge on a small group. Bering told feeding your baby is obscene might make some women angrier than others.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

They're fanatics the moment they choose to impinge their beliefs or lifestyles upon others, or refuse to accept any compromise or think the world is after them.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[QUOTE=feather;703180]They're fanatics the moment they choose to impinge their beliefs or lifestyles upon others, or refuse to accept any compromise or think the world is after them.[/QUOTE]Everybody tries to persuade people to their own view. Some just try harder :) . That would not be my description of a fanatic. But we are allowed to disagree!!

These women are not physically harming anyone , on the contrary. This whole thing has been blown out of all proportion.

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

But these women can breastfeed all they want. No one's taking it from them. And they have plenty of other options for displaying their breastfeeding pictures on the internet, if that's what gets them excited. It's not like this is a 1960s-style civil rights drama where society is systematically segregating and discriminating against women based on their decision to breastfeed. I would safely wager that individuals who work at and manage Facebook have no personal agenda against breastfeeding.

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Ultimately Facebook exists on the internet. It's very existence hinges on the fact that it connects people of all races and cultures across geographical boundaries through the internet. When it sets its no nudity policy, it has to cater to the world, not just America or Australia or Asia. Naturally it caters its policies to the lowest denominator, and this is not even enforced until someone else flags the pictures or posts.

So someone found the pictures offensive, Facebook exercised its user agreement and removed those pictures. How difficult is that to understand? Facebook performed a service based on someone else's feedback, so why call out Facebook for being the executioner? It's that someone else who's the issue.

And secondly, Facebook is privately owned. Nobody pays them or has shares in them. Facebook doesn't have to answer to anybody. We use Facebook services as a privilege bestowed upon us when we register, but these privileges can be restricted or removed anytime. Facebook doesn't owe anything to anyone.

If these breast feeding women took a step back and tried to understand where Facebook is in the bigger picture of the internet, as opposed to living in their own lactating world and crying foul over every small thing that infringes upon their precious beliefs, they'll see how juvenile this is. It's such a typical reaction to think everything revolves around 'me.' Someone did this to 'me,' someone is against what 'I' stand for. The world is against 'me.' Hello, the world is a lot bigger than a pair of lactating tits.

Which brings me to the comment about them being fanatics. Once you take up a cause, you run the risk of feeling justified and self righteous, you run the risk of feeling marginalised or entertain a polarised point of view which turns into a case of you're either with us, or against us. You project your own beliefs and issues onto everything that happens to you, as though everything is personally relevant.