Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Miroslav;481272]CDJs are a different story - they're still in the old school camp for me.

As for computers... If you're talking efficiency, then yes it's progress. If you're talking about artistic achievement, then no it isn't [I]necessarily[/I] progress - not just because you have superior technology. Art is not efficient.

In other words, it depends on how you use your computer.

If you use your computer to really challenge and stretch yourself creatively in terms of your breadth and speed of real improvised sound layering and remixing, then that's cool - you're compensating for the skills you don't have to demonstrate anymore and unleashing the power of the technology. respect.

But if you use your computer in a club to crank out a standard old school set like I mix, then you're just a chump who has insulated himself from much of the risk inherent in real performance. I have to do the track selection and build the progression too...oh, and I also have to keep the beats together. And I can't just rework my tracks on the fly, so I have to be that much more careful in what I select and when and how I mix it in. And I have to do all this shit right with [U]one shot[/U] before my tune misses the spot or runs out.

Real performance art [I]embraces risk[/I]. It's about creative expression through skill. Skill means you're doing stuff that not anyone can do and [I]taking the chance[/I] of fucking up on stage if you don't do it right.

If you're not doing that - whatever your technology is and even if the wasted party people can't really tell - then you're a poser who might as well record a CD and just stay home.[/quote]

i agree with some of the things u said in that and some i dont agree with, superior technology is good imo beause it will soon become mainstream just like cdj's have and this is eliminating a thing called "wow and flutter" [quote]I also have to keep the beats together[/quote]which is almost a problem with vinyl/technics ( i,m not sure with the cdj's as they are a digital system ) as noise is to a analog circuit, i would say that programs like ableton give the user more time to concentrate on the artistical side that u talk about but yes i agree with u on the stage part of this, most people just look like there checking there emails but ur dissin some majour players in the scene here, sasha, hawtin but to name a few others, for me these guys have embraced it as it lets them do things that just were not possible with other mixing techniques and to me thats a good thing, imo most people who diss things like ableton either havnt used them or dont have the skills to use them in the way in which it can be beneficial to them and thats coming just from my experiences, this is why most big namers seem to be switching to serato as this adds the whole "doin stuff" routine to the performance, have u ever used ableton? its not as straight forward as everyone thinks

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

does anyone buy those sacd's? I do know they cost a bit more than a regular cd...that and you can't get everything you can get with regular cd's. And don't you have to use a special cd player for that too. No thanks.

Yeah I'm not too much into Serato. I'd rather spend time looking through my Cd booklet, instead of looking through my hard drive. Ableton is nice...but using it to do the same old stuff is a waste. It's a new product and should be learned enough to be able to do new things to your sets. The only dj I respect using ableton in sets is JZ. That guy knows how to use technology to it's fullest.

If you wanna learn about audio quality. Go watch the 2nd DVD of Maestro. Or go read a few of the audiophile magazines that are out. You'll learn a few things. One of which is to use all class A circuitry for your system.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=red1;481341]i agree with some of the things u said in that and some i dont agree with, superior technology is good imo beause it will soon become mainstream just like cdj's have and this is eliminating a thing called "wow and flutter" which is almost a problem with vinyl/technics ( i,m not sure with the cdj's as they are a digital system ) as noise is to a analog circuit, i would say that programs like ableton give the user more time to concentrate on the artistical side that u talk about but yes i agree with u on the stage part of this, most people just look like there checking there emails but ur dissin some majour players in the scene here, sasha, hawtin but to name a few others, for me these guys have embraced it as it lets them do things that just were not possible with other mixing techniques and to me thats a good thing, imo most people who diss things like ableton either havnt used them or dont have the skills to use them in the way in which it can be beneficial to them and thats coming just from my experiences, this is why most big namers seem to be switching to serato as this adds the whole "doin stuff" routine to the performance, have u ever used ableton? its not as straight forward as everyone thinks[/quote]

I've used it, but not out in front of people. I've also stood in and gotten the play by play from folks who use it. I've never seen Sasha play, but others like Hawtin I've seen...and they do some sick stuff with it. They really make it a priority to raise the bar and [I]do stuff you can't do with vinyl.[/I] It's only the segment of people who I've seen lately do the same old shit but with Ableton that annoy me. I suspect we see things pretty similarly on this topic in the end.

As for wow and flutter (by this I understand you to mean small irregularities in analog playback speeds)...to me that's another example of the skill that was required to play the game. If you had a good set of technics, it's gonna be pretty damn low. If you had good equipment [I]and[/I] also developed the skill to manage it then pretty much no human ear will pick up on it. It forced you to listen while you're doing all your other track/set progression stuff and really learn how to keep beats aligned.

Sure, you can get a computer to completely eliminate a bunch of those random variables that before I had to control. But if you're gonna do that, you'd better be bringing a new skillset to the table for me to pay attention to you. And the choice of whether you will use the new technology to raise the bar or just make things easier rests entirely with you. If you choose to raise the bar, then more power to you. If you choose not to...then even though the sound coming out of the speakers is great and the crowd may be dancing...you are becoming increasingly redundant in the process.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

i guess it depends on what u want the outcome of u doing what u do to become, personally i,m in my 30's now so that wanting to be the next big dj and play infront of huge crowds phase has past me so i just like to do a mix or 2 with songs i have picked out from the bunch and listen to them and if other people like what i,m doing then cool, i find ableton convinient and space saving which is perfect for me and i also get a buzz out of using a new technology, i,ll never tire of exploring new things

anyway weve went way of topic here :lol:

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=jeffrey collins;481448]does anyone buy those sacd's? I do know they cost a bit more than a regular cd...that and you can't get everything you can get with regular cd's. And don't you have to use a special cd player for that too..[/quote]

when i was doin my study we had to write essays on sacd because everyone was talking about it being the next big thing, its actually rather clever as it uses 3 layers and only 1 bit technology but it seems to have failed in selling itself to the majourity of people probibly due to cost, tbh it reminds me of then early dvd disc thing that was about the same size of a 12" record lol i knew 1 person that had it and that was that

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

I'm not that picky, but 192k is not enough for mixing. IMO

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=red1;481495]i guess it depends on what u want the outcome of u doing what u do to become, personally i,m in my 30's now so that wanting to be the next big dj and play infront of huge crowds phase has past me so i just like to do a mix or 2 with songs i have picked out from the bunch and listen to them and if other people like what i,m doing then cool, i find ableton convinient and space saving which is perfect for me and i also get a buzz out of using a new technology, i,ll never tire of exploring new things

anyway weve went way of topic here :lol:[/quote]

yeah, we kinda did :) imo, if you're pushing your creativity and doing new stuff, then whatever technology you ultimately use/don't use is all good. and I know in the end the stuff I say is just a personal preference...

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a musical study did you do? Do you do mastering or any production work?

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

For my iPod ,anything above 128 kbps is fine, although I rather have 192 kbps and above. For clubs I think they should play the best possible quality.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Miroslav;481330]Please put your headphones down right now and give up this whole music thing...cuz that's just sad.

Every club obviously needs to care about the business aspect, but if all you care about is churning people through and getting sound out the speakers in the most efficient and riskless way possible....

JUST GET RID OF THE DJ ALREADY AND PLAY A CD.

The computer can handle it all perfectly fine on its own.[/quote]

What you need to do is get off your soap box already. This is reality, this is a business and peoples liveliood are at stake here.

They can still be just as creative as you, can program a set just as well and even have more tricks they can perform that you can't do when using traditional turntables and a mixer.

All the digital age is doing is leveling the playing field, and that's a good thing.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Miroslav;481507]yeah, we kinda did :) imo, if you're pushing your creativity and doing new stuff, then whatever technology you ultimately use/don't use is all good. and I know in the end the stuff I say is just a personal preference...

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a musical study did you do? Do you do mastering or any production work?[/quote]

i did a hnd in audio technology with electronics, we covered mastering and aslo production work as well as the electronics involved and also a degree in audio technology with multimedia which covered remixing and also programing and then web design etc etc, best thing i have ever done

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

Jayson,

So its all about the money....not the music. Greed wins again :(

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Jayson;481527]What you need to do is get off your soap box already. This is reality, this is a business and peoples liveliood are at stake here.

They can still be just as creative as you, can program a set just as well and even have more tricks they can perform that you can't do when using traditional turntables and a mixer.

All the digital age is doing is leveling the playing field, and that's a good thing.[/quote]

I never said that Ableton DJs can't be creative, just that it's unfortunate that I'm seeing more and more who are aren't. I agree that many of them can be creative and program good sets.

I couldn't disagree with you more on the rest...but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

But the way, if you stop and think about it..."leveling the playing field" and eliminating risks is the [U][I][B]last[/B][/I][/U] thing you want for your livelihood if you're a DJ or a club owner (but particularly a DJ).

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

As a DJ yes, it is the last thing you want. As a club owner it's a good thing, as you can get the same performance or even a better one at a better price.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Jayson;481580]As a DJ yes, it is the last thing you want. As a club owner it's a good thing, as you can get the same performance or even a better one at a better price.[/quote]

Agreed :)

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=nicomax;481520]For my iPod ,anything above 128 kbps is fine, although I rather have 192 kbps and above. For clubs I think they should play the best possible quality.[/quote]That makes plenty of sense since an iPod has a lower frequency response and signal-to-noise ratio than other higher quality mp3 players.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

Yeah Dom, they were LASERDISCS... there's a used book seller in town that still sells those. Has a couple of them for concerts that are still not out on DVD. Yeah the players for those things started out at like 1200$ when they were new. Thank God the DVD craze went fast so now we are at a point where you can buy a dvd played for 40$.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Mindstatic Pro;481558]Jayson,

So its all about the money....not the music. Greed wins again :([/quote]

No it's not all about the money, I play the music for myself and friends at home. But when I'm out I expect to get paid for my services, and if I'm paying a DJ to play he better be worth it and not screw up.

BUT this is a business so don't forget that. People are here to make money now. If they weren't then they wouldn't be charging absurd amounts of money to play.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

Yeah I don't like spinning at a club, where it seems as if all the other dj's are getting paid but they don't wanna pay me. That kind of shit isn't right.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

My switch to CDJ's is mostly motivated by the high prices of vinyl and the fact that high quality mp3 or WAV's do the trick well enough. I can keep bitching over sound quality (and yes...vinyl [I]does[/I] sound better) but in the end it's a choice between having to give up or switch to a way of DJ-ing which will permit me to keep the costs lower in the long run.

But I'll never switch to computer mixing for real unless it's adding something to the spectrum in which a DJ moves himself. I prefer something as close to the old feel as possible, like the CDJ's.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

for work I have to listen to 48kbps ogg vorbis, and it's not that bad actually. I think ogg sounds better than mp3.

Of course for my own music it is 320kbps or better (for mp3).

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Yao;482669]My switch to CDJ's is mostly motivated by the high prices of vinyl and the fact that high quality mp3 or WAV's do the trick well enough. I can keep bitching over sound quality (and yes...vinyl [I]does[/I] sound better) but in the end it's a choice between having to give up or switch to a way of DJ-ing which will permit me to keep the costs lower in the long run.

But I'll never switch to computer mixing for real unless it's adding something to the spectrum in which a DJ moves himself. I prefer something as close to the old feel as possible, like the CDJ's.[/quote]

the thing is if i had the money then i would go for cdj's myself but as it happens now i,ve bought some m-audio hardware and the software came free with it so right now i,m extatic @ using my computer to mix but dont get me wrong i can see more wrong as an "old school" dj myself in using a computer to mix than i can see right but for now its convenient and also cheap, i still think this type of djing will take over eventually and when i say eventually i meen in the long term rather in the short

my problem is i like my gadgets too much

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

We all like our gadgets.

Yeah I too switched to cd's, but not because of cost...I was just getting way more stuff on cd anyway, and I like how lite and easy to carry they are.