I am worried about the future of audio quality. Everyone is running around listening to 192's or worse on their I-Pods and getting used to it.
Are DJ's going to start palying these low quality files in clubs?
Will people be okay listening?

Check out the quote in my sig... :shock: :taken from [URL="http://www.livesets.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113708"]http://www.livesets.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113708[/URL]

Whats your opinion?

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

i thought CD dj's use VBR or 320kbps... to play in clubs otherwise it will just sound like shit. as for ipod listening, 128 is as low as i will go.. without exceptional headphones i dont think anyone on the street will notice the difference.. as for me, i try to ipod 192 or above.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

i dont mind 192's anything under starts to be noticeable (not in the club) in a club you need 320's

all mp3's do is filter out certain frequencies to save space... so yes quality will suffer (same with image compression). so it all depends on how much gets filtered... hence the differing kbs rates.... so i guess it all depends on the compression rate...

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

:roflmao:

That's awesome. I wouldn't make my dog listen to mp3s at 96 kbps. nOObs...

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

I use 320 exclusely or even .WAV, 192 is for n00bs

plus you've gotta understand that most people use 192 only to save space on the ipod.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

You can still tell the difference at 320KB and 192 is dog's ass.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

It's not just the bit rate, sometimes a lower bit rate sounds ok and sometimes a higher bit rate sounds awful . Depends on the source and recording quality as well. But I personally can't see any instance where 96kb could be good!!

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

^^^ I have never hear that one. I know 96k Sucks. And frankly for mp3's there needs to be a much higher bitrate for dj tracks, and other things that would could convert to wav...and I'm not talking about FLac. I'm talking about possibly a 410K track. Or better. MP3 was invented back when people were dealing with 28KBPS modems. Now we have tons of bandwidth and yet the MP3 format hasn't upgraded to go along with the change in available bandwidth.

Hell, nowadays you can download a WAV file in the time it takes you to download an entire Kiss 100 Digweed Set. So why not make them more available.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=jeffrey collins;480980]Hell, nowadays you can download a WAV file in the time it takes you to download an entire Kiss 100 Digweed Set. So why not make them more available.[/quote]

because DVDJ's cost a fuckload =p plus not everyone has a terrabyte of hard drive space... i have a 120gb (i know i know), formatted 2 weeks ago and its already almost half full due to dj sets and tv stuff =\

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=jeffrey collins;480980]Now we have tons of bandwidth and yet the MP3 format hasn't upgraded to go along with the change in available bandwidth.[/quote]I'm sorry but what exactly are you trying to say with this? The mp3 was designed to be a compressed format. You're commenting about upgrading the mp3? That's what FLAC and SHN are for or even WAV. If you want a better bitrate/sound quality, you download the original file or purchase it.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

Im all for listening to 192's on your I-Pod..cheaper, smaller, whatever.....

What Im trying to say is that everyone's ears are getting used to that compressed MP3 sound. For example.....

Stranded on an island, forced to eat seaweed or whatever.... Tastes like shit at first but after a few weeks you become numb to the taste.

I know DJ's that play 192's in the club. Hardly anyone notices...or cares. It makes my ears bleedie...

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

i,ve said this time and time again but i have a hatred for lossy compression as its so damaging to the audio quality but i dont think everyone is getting too used to 192, if u look back and take the old sound of the humble cassette for example everyone was used to the sound of that untill the cd came along and its going to be the same with the mp3 but some of u are correct, it should already be happening but like others have said hd space and also everyones "quick fix" attitude has still to be changed

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

one other thing is when u talk about usable bandwidth u talk about down speed which lets face it is pretty plentyfull but upload speed for most is a totally different story, i have 8 meg down but i,m pushing half a meg up if i,m lucky, now lets see, i have a choice of uploading a song ( for example ), its 20 meg in 320 and 130+ meg in wav, which one would u choose?

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

On the subject of MP3 quality. What is the system used to record the weekly Kiss shows?

It seems to lack punch and the treble is bit high resulting in a less warm like sound. I downloaded the set this week from another website in lower bitrate and yet it sound better.

thanks

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

whenever I get the chance I take WAV, then 320 for the tracks I intend to DJ with...

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Yao;481016]whenever I get the chance I take WAV, then 320 for the tracks I intend to DJ with...[/quote]

yea when i have the money i do that but 320 is sufficient for me on most occasions :)

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[QUOTE=hickey34]I record via the mic jack on my laptop, and the quality is actually fine. Between recording it at a mere 96kbps and then burning it to a disc in mp3 format there is obviously some loss, but thus far, it is un-noticable, so long as the source volume is kept below a certain limit. I also downloaded a free recording programme called free iq recorder, works perfectly. All you need to do is plug in the lead from the back of the recording jacks on the back of the mixer to the mic jack on the laptop, and press record on the programme! Obviously the method above [using a USB device with a line-in connection] is superior with regards to lossless sound quality, and a sound programme can be useful for editing the mix, but if you just wanna burn a few cds for your mates, this is the easiest way.[/QUOTE]

I think he's trying to say that it's ok to use 96kbps to record his mixes and burn some cd's for his friends, not that he'll play 96kbps mp3s at a club. Anyone with the intention to use sound files professionally should know to stay away from mp3s or other lossy compression formats in the first place, complaining about the quality loss of a compressed lossy audio format is rather obvious.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

maybe this is why people should invest in some good needles and play more vinyl :p

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Miroslav;481109]maybe this is why people should invest in some good needles and play more vinyl :p[/quote]

vinyls dead bruv

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

anyone who says that 96k is good in the clubs is also the people who say that mackie self powered speakers are excellent for club sound.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

This was my statement. I forgot I was logged in under my buddy. [quote]Im all for listening to 192's on your I-Pod..cheaper, smaller, whatever.....

What Im trying to say is that everyone's ears are getting used to that compressed MP3 sound. For example.....

Stranded on an island, forced to eat seaweed or whatever.... Tastes like shit at first but after a few weeks you become numb to the taste.

I know DJ's that play 192's in the club. Hardly anyone notices...or cares. It makes my ears bleedie...[/quote]

Im scared of stuff like this... [QUOTE=red1;481112]vinyls dead bruv[/QUOTE]

^^^^^^^This is exactly why I brought this up. I believe MP3's are killing vinyl, killing analogue. Causing people to forget the warm luscious full range of wax.

Vinyl's not dead. I know some people who play vinyl...still appreciate vinyl.

For example, Habersham played here a few months ago..... Every track played was his own white label press on vinyl, not one CD. Most the M_NUS kids play vinyl including Richie.

Do you see DJ's play vinyl anymore?

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

lol vinyl was already dead b4 the mp3.....lets look @ it

this is the shape of the grooves on a new piece of vinyl.......

//////////\

this is that same piece after 100 plays

//_////_//\

after 200 plays

/_//_//_ u get me? ( its not exactly the best illistration )

anyone who thinks that vinyl is a good media for music is insane in my opinion and u only have to go back and play ur grandads old 78's to see what happens to this type of media over time, i,m the type of guy that in 30 40 years wants to go back and hear the sound i was listening to now exactly how i hear it now

tbh i dont see many people play vinyl anymore and imo thats a good thing

dont get me wrong though coz i love it

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

You are one of these people Im talking about who is contributing to the death of sound quality. Proving exactly the point Im trying to make.

[quote=red1;481165] anyone who thinks that vinyl is a good media for music is insane in my opinion[/quote] This makes no sense

[COLOR=yellow]FYI[/COLOR] [quote]A digital recording takes snapshots of the analog signal at a certain rate (for CDs it is 44,100 times per second) and measures each snapshot with a certain accuracy (for CDs it is 16-bit, which means the value must be one of 65,536 possible values).......

This means that, by definition, a digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps. Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.

In your home stereo the CD or DVD player takes this digital recording and converts it to an analog signal, which is fed to your amplifier. The amplifier then raises the voltage of the signal to a level powerful enough to drive your speaker.

A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion. This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound. But there is a downside, any specks of dust or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During quiet spots in songs this noise may be heard over the music. Digital recordings don't degrade over time, and if the digital recording contains silence, then there will be no noise.[/quote] taken from: [URL]http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm[/URL]

I'll take the downside of vinyl over the downsides of digital anyday.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

This pretty much says it right here....

"This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound. But there is a downside, any specks of dust or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During quiet spots in songs this noise may be heard over the music. Digital recordings don't degrade over time, and if the digital recording contains silence, then there will be no noise."

but vinyl sounds way better than digital imo.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Mindstatic Pro;481182]You are one of these people Im talking about who is contributing to the death of sound quality. Proving exactly the point Im trying to make.

This makes no sense

[COLOR=yellow]FYI[/COLOR]

taken from: [URL]http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm[/URL]

I'll take the downside of vinyl over the downsides of digital anyday.[/quote]

u obviously do not know anything about the bandwidth of vinyl, vinyl has a max bandwidth of around 16 Khz and cd quality audio has a bandwidth of around 20 Khz, ur going in the wrong direction if u want to argue about analog vrs digital, in theory analog is better BUT when u take electrical noise into this equasion the digital wins hands down, there is actually no contest,but higher qualit analog stuff is still favoured but it costs a shitload of cash, sure ur analog sounds warmer with that little noise ( that most of u wont notice ) but ur arguing about the wrong thing here completely, if u wanna start talking about lossy compression then fine u win hands down and this is what mp3 uses to get the file sizes down but if ur talking about analog and digital there are many many arguments to be looked at, the first diagram shows a very basic digital wave layed over a perfect since wav cycle, hell ur lucky if that digital wave is 8 bit ( a cd is 16 bit ) , this conversion happens so fast that the bandwidth of the ear cant tell the difference and if u increase the sample rate and the bit rate u would be pushed to notice the difference in the actual wav as u would have to zoom in many times to be able to notice, lets take cd audio quality for example, each second of sine wav has 65,536 "points" in which that wave is sampled digitally ( per second that is btw )and that reproduces that sine wav well although it may not be exactly exact when u compare it to a pur sine wav but the bandwidth of the ear wont be able to tell the difference.........

brb i,m not finished my nets fuckin up.......to be continued

ok back sorry about that my connections been doin funny things all day, back on subject........

to notice the difference in a basic cd quality digital wav u would have to zoom in wayyyyyy further than the like of soundforge can go and if u increase the sample rate and also the bit depth then then the digital wav becomes increasingly more like the origonal analog wave it sampled and the harmonic content also increases which some digital waves are sorely lacking but again the human ear will not be able to tell the difference usually because of the bandwidth of ur hearing, ok i,m gonna shut up now lol, study lossy compression rather than analog vrs digital is all i,m trying to say because in some way analog is better and in some ways digital is better

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

here is the perfect example of why vinyls a done thing, this is probibly a brand new piece of vinyl that was recorded today, sounds like someones just poured coke into the rice crispies

[URL]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E0NISVPE[/URL]

if that was mp3 OR cd then that noise wouldnt be there

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

You're all on crack. 8-track for the win. :RockOn:

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=red1;481112]vinyls dead bruv[/quote]

not to me.

on a related note, I'll tell you another thing that's not dead to me: real, artistic performance when a DJ plays live.

but that's a topic for a different thread.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

i bet u think i,m the anti christ when it comes to vinyl but that isnt the case, i have a shitload of it myself but for me the digital media is better for me as its more accessable and much cleaner, i have a choice, i can either drive 40 or 50 miles to find a good record store buy some vinyl then drive another 40 or 50 miles to my home which costs money or i can sit @ pc listening to songs online that i wanna buy, i dont know about u but i would rather spend the money on more songs rather than spend it on travel costs for that touching 100 mile round trip plus on vinyl if i like one song and dont like the rest of those songs i still have to pay for the ones a dont like, i get the vinyl back and play it for the first time, maybe its not such a good pressing so it doesnt sound as good as i would like it so i,m stuck with it, for me vinyl is not a good media although this is what i learned my trade on so like most of u i have a love for it also but again its fact that vinyl sales are down due to cds and also other digital media, maybe there is still the same market for the songs or whatever but the way people are buying music is changing, thats fact like it or not and for me i think about the future and all i can see is the quality of digital media getting better and better, if we all had some of the attitudes that have been shown in this post then we would all still be buying tapes etc, adapt or just do whatever makes u happy, personally i dont care its your own choice, you still get songs that get released on vinyl that wont make it to the digital market but i think thats old purists trying to hold onto a part of them that they dont want to let go of and thats there choice

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

anyway [URL]http://www.myspace.com/waronvinyl[/URL] go knock urselfs out, have fun :)

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Miroslav;481245]not to me.

on a related note, I'll tell you another thing that's not dead to me: real, artistic performance when a DJ plays live.

but that's a topic for a different thread.[/quote]

cdj's? digital media and of course u have to actually be able to mix :D

and i,m not going down that route that drags us into the whole computer mixing thing, its called progress, u use a computer for everything else why not to mix as well?

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

I don't know about that degradation of vinyl. I think a lot of it comes down to Who owns the vinyl and How they take care of it. I know a bunch of dj's who take really shitty care of their lps. then there are a few who care for it more than diamonds, you can look at records they have played 100 times and they still are just as beautiful as when they were brand new.

And yeah Vinyl does have the cutoff at a lower point than cd's. But most audiophiles would still prefer vinyl over cd's...these are also people that spend 2K on a record player and another 200$ on one needle.

I truly think it depends on the person listening, and there really is no way to judge human response, as each will be different.

But please stay away from spinning cd mp3's at anything less than 256K.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=sono;481015]On the subject of MP3 quality. What is the system used to record the weekly Kiss shows?

It seems to lack punch and the treble is bit high resulting in a less warm like sound. I downloaded the set this week from another website in lower bitrate and yet it sound better.

thanks[/quote]

i use a pci card with radio

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

how can the set sound warm...it is fully digital.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

I hate radio streams at 96k with low pass filters, pisses me off to high hell. And as for quality 320 is the way to go or uncompressed wav or flac file. Hell even ogm is good as a container as long as the compression is minimal.

Vinyl > digital even if the record is old, pissed on, and been in the washing machine.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=red1;481252]cdj's? digital media and of course u have to actually be able to mix :D

and i,m not going down that route that drags us into the whole computer mixing thing, its called progress, u use a computer for everything else why not to mix as well?[/quote]

CDJs are a different story - they're still in the old school camp for me.

As for computers... If you're talking efficiency, then yes it's progress. If you're talking about artistic achievement, then no it isn't [I]necessarily[/I] progress - not just because you have superior technology. Art is not efficient.

In other words, it depends on how you use your computer.

If you use your computer to really challenge and stretch yourself creatively in terms of your breadth and speed of real improvised sound layering and remixing, then that's cool - you're compensating for the skills you don't have to demonstrate anymore and unleashing the power of the technology. respect.

But if you use your computer in a club to crank out a standard old school set like I mix, then you're just a chump who has insulated himself from much of the risk inherent in real performance. I have to do the track selection and build the progression too...oh, and I also have to keep the beats together. And I can't just rework my tracks on the fly, so I have to be that much more careful in what I select and when and how I mix it in. And I have to do all this shit right with [U]one shot[/U] before my tune misses the spot or runs out.

Real performance art [I]embraces risk[/I]. It's about creative expression through skill. Skill means you're doing stuff that not anyone can do and [I]taking the chance[/I] of fucking up on stage if you don't do it right.

If you're not doing that - whatever your technology is and even if the wasted party people can't really tell - then you're a poser who might as well record a CD and just stay home.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

SACD anyone? That's what I'm waiting for to be mainstream.

As for using a computer, who cares? These guys are paid professionals so they sure as hell better not phuck up when I'm paying them a few grand to rock a club. So if they need a computer to do it then awesome, more power to you.

And that's the bottom line, this is a business. This isn't a theater where you go to see a play, or an art gallery. This is a club, and people expect to have a good time and are paying good money for it, and I don't think galloping beats and trainwrecking is what they paid for.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

DVDA > SACD. Sorry, dude but that's the truth. The US is the only market that anyone even buys SACD for that matter. Looks like we're behind everyone else. Stupid labels giving us SACD releases and then the same release is a DVDA in Europe. Damnit.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

I never said SACDs were better than DVDs, but the few I have are outstanding. If they are pushing DVDs as an audio format then I'm all for it.

Re: What are your thoughts on MP3 audio quality?

[quote=Jayson;481277]SACD anyone? That's what I'm waiting for to be mainstream.

As for using a computer, who cares? These guys are paid professionals so they sure as hell better not phuck up when I'm paying them a few grand to rock a club. So if they need a computer to do it then awesome, more power to you.

And that's the bottom line, this is a business. This isn't a theater where you go to see a play, or an art gallery. This is a club, and people expect to have a good time and are paying good money for it, and I don't think galloping beats and trainwrecking is what they paid for.[/quote]

Please put your headphones down right now and give up this whole music thing...cuz that's just sad.

Every club obviously needs to care about the business aspect, but if all you care about is churning people through and getting sound out the speakers in the most efficient and riskless way possible....

JUST GET RID OF THE DJ ALREADY AND PLAY A CD.

The computer can handle it all perfectly fine on its own.