[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
Re: God does exist
add in the fact that the hubble telescope has allowed us to witness a big bang, we can loook out there and see planets forming, and you can carbon date things back millions and milllions of years.
im just waiting for the line ''ok, you cant prove god is real, with any validiity, it doesnt hurt to have faith"
personally, i beleive in god, but you cant tell me that there is proof when all the proof denies the existence of the occurrences in the bible.
Re: God does exist
[quote=cowardly dj;384356]
Lets examine why people do not like God for a minute and I am willing to guess that you and many others here will fall into this category. God says do not drink alcohol. People like to drink alcohol so if they were to follow God they would have to give that up. God says do not use profane language. People like to use profanity in their everyday conversations to express their thoughts make jokes etc. People who follow God have to give that up also. How about drugs, dancing, and even promiscuity. That is the biggest problem people have with God. If you follow God you are to have one partner for life. Lets face it, people are not willing to give things up to follow God. Simply put God has rules and prohibitions and most people are tired of rules and prohibitions so they dismiss any and everything about God to ease their conscious. You have rules in your life every second of it and it does get to be tiresome. Do this, dont do that, go here, take this, stop that and whatever you would like to add here. [/quote]
Personally, I really don't have a problem with God, I have a problem with the Catholic Church. But actually I do have a beef with God. I would be willing to live by Gods rules if god is willing to prove he exists. And by proof I mean beyond a shawdow of a doubt, stone cold, solid as a rock proof.
And as to you first piece of "evidence". My chemistry text book says claims that Zn + HCl --> ZnCl2 + H2. But I don't have to take the books word for it. I can prove it for myself. I can do the reation, see the product, feel it in my hand, smell the gasses produced. Science asks nothing of me. It does not ask me to have trust that the textbook is correct. It says, "come, see for yourself". Once God can do that, I'll start believing.
Re: God does exist
According to the Bible there are many Gods. The Christian-Jewish version demanded that He should be the only God, He smote many people was generally mean to lots of people in the Old testement, therefore I would not be interested in learning if He exsists or not.
Can we now talk about how God approves of incest? I.e Lot and his daughters, should i follow His instructions and sleep with my sister?
Re: God does exist
I have to say, i agree with it, 100%. I am a slave to the one and only god, the creator of the Heavens and the Earth, and all things good. Repent, for you are all worshiping evil idols and must convert your evil ways! I want to help you, Hell is not a good place to go, if i could only give you one peice of advice, READ THE BIBLE*. It is not a boring book, its a guide to life. Study it, go to church, spread the gospel! A life in Hell is worse than anything you've ever imagined, don't go there, belive in Christ**.
insert as required
Re: God does exist
Everyone has the right to expect the Bible, claiming to be inspired of God, to contain accurate scientific evidence.
If you have not read my earlier post about the Bible's self claims for authenticity and inspiration from God the now is a good time to turn a few pages back and give it a read. If the Bible's claims of being divinely and supernaturally inspired then there must be evidence in it's pages.
The Bible has many scientifically accurate statements that are called scientific foreknowledge.
Scientific foreknowledge can be defined as the statement of a scientific fact at a certain time and place by someone who could not possibly know of that fact without receiving special (in this case supernatural) revelation (in this case from God)
"Many scientific facts, which prove the infallability of Scripture, are tucked away in its pages. These proofs are given in nonscientific language; nevertheless, they substantiate the claims of the authenticity of the Holy Scriptures...In some cases, scientific concepts have been known throug the ages, but these concepts are mentioned in a unique manner in Scripture. In other cases, scientific topicsahave been mentioned huindreds or even thousands of years before man discovered them (Jean S. Morton 1978 )
Having said that I will now use a scientific example in the Bible that was made thousands of years before science knew about it.
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Genesis 7:11 [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the [/SIZE][B][I][SIZE=1]fountains of the great deep[/SIZE] [/I][/B][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Genesis 8:2[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] the [B][I]fountains also of the deep [/I][/B][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Proverbs 8:28[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] When he made firm the skies above, When the [B][I]fountains of the deep [/I][/B][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]became strong,[/SIZE] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Pay particularly close attention to the words in bold. The deep refers to the ocean then as it does today. So what ar fountains of the deep? Today they are called hydrothermal vents.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/SIZE]The first hydrothermal vent was discovered in 1977. They are known to exist in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Most are found at an average depth of about 2,100 meters (7,000 ft) in areas of seafloor spreading along the Mid-Ocean Ridge system? the underwater mountain chain that snakes its way around the globe.
A hydrothermal vent is a geyser on the seafloor.
here is a google search on the topic
[URL]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hydrothermal+vents[/URL]
So as you can see science and the Bible are not enemies as people claim they are. There is scientific evidence of the statement made in the Bible thousands of years before science knew anything of the sort.
It is a well known fact that there were no deep sea expeditions 3000+ years ago when Genesis and Proverbs were written. The Bible claims it is inspired by God. Science says it is not but you are left with the obvious question of how did the writers gain such a knowledge?
This is called evidence. It has been left by God to povide us with proof that substantiates our faith. As I have stated earlier, faith in God is not a blind faith. There are several other scientific examples of foreknowledge in the Bible but this is a start.
Post your thoughts.
Re: God does exist
wow. dude. as per yesterday, you know i aint here to rip ya. but who is your pastor? you should smack him for teaching you that.
OK, self sonfession here. i was a cathechist for 8 years. (christians will know wht this is)so i am heavily educated in the teachings. and i think toasty's pop will agree here the fountains of the deep refer to an analogy for the influence that satan had on the earth until noah showed the self sacrifice to prove that we (human) were worthy for god's concern.
Re: God does exist
[quote=Morgan;384443]Can we now talk about how God approves of incest? I.e Lot and his daughters, should i follow His instructions and sleep with my sister?[/quote]
Please read that a bit more carefully. God did not tell Lot's daughters to do that they did it on their own free will. The reason it is mentioned is it gives the beginning of the line of Moabites and the children of Ammon. It is common place in ancient Hebrew to give the origin of the family.
Genesis 19: 30-38
Re: God does exist
[quote=thesightless;384459]wow. dude. as per yesterday, you know i aint here to rip ya. but who is your pastor? you should smack him for teaching you that.
OK, self sonfession here. i was a cathechist for 8 years. (christians will know wht this is)so i am heavily educated in the teachings. and i think toasty's pop will agree here the fountains of the deep refer to an analogy for the influence that satan had on the earth until noah showed the self sacrifice to prove that we (human) were worthy for god's concern.[/quote]
Now in order to understand what the fountains of the deep are you have to take the context in which they are written in the Scripture. There is no mention of satan anywhere near before or after these verses. TBH I have no idea how anyone could even come up with that as the meaning. It simply could not be an analogy for satan.
Lets examine the Noah verse closely. You have to take the entire context of the subject to get the meaning. Lets add a few verses to the one to see what is meant here.
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:6[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:7[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:8[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creepeth upon the ground, [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:9[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, male and female, as God commanded Noah. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:10[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And it came to pass after the seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:11[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:12[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:13[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:14[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:15[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:16[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God commanded him: and Jehovah shut him in. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:17[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:18[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:19[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:20[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:21[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: [/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Gen 7:22[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]This is all about the water. There is no possible way it could have anything to do with an anology of satan.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Re: God does exist
pine tree. im done.
its EVIL> they are referring to evil, bad things, not good, substitute anything referring to the opposite of what we think of good.
shit man, you really need to research judiaism and zoroastrianism. they were around LONG BEFORE any semblence of the word christ, and the foundations for EVERY religion in the world.
here i will TELL you how religion came along.
in ancient persia, people had behaviour problems and the smartest guy in the group decided to tell people that being good was better and would lead to better things. someone asked ''but, sir, what is good?'' after some thinking, the man said ''god is good'', then after a few hundred years of developing this theory, people created ideas and names for aspects of good vs evil, and the more people became organized and as some grew to gain a distaste for those in power, the churches became organized so that the powerful could utilize thier influence on the less powerful. rules were implemented into law because the churches were in charge at the time.
after about 2-3 thousand years, we sit here arguing about whose version of good vs evil is right, and everyone believes thiers is, simplt because, historically it fit thier lives, based primarily on geography and living styles. why else does christianity as a whole enjoy a more lavish, wealthy lifestyle than say, islam which was founded in harsh living conditions for people. and judiasm as well sports a less materialistic idea due primarily, imo, to the events the hebrew tribes had to endure back in the day.
Re: God does exist
All I am saying sightless is that in the context presented there is absolutely no implication that the fountains of the deep is an anology for satan.
As so many of you have said, just because you say something is does not mean it is. If you say that it is an analogy for satan then perhaps you could show me how this is. I am absolutley willing to correct myself if I am wrong. I am always looking for the truth on any subject. If you know something I do not know about his then please shed some light on the situation.
Re: God does exist
[quote=cowardly dj;384475]All I am saying sightless is that in the context presented there is absolutely no implication that the fountains of the deep is an anology for satan..[/quote]
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy[/URL]
:|
Re: God does exist
[QUOTE=cowardly dj;384356]I am not trying to convert anyone. It is people like you that ridicule me day after day, post after post and for what? Not because I have done or said anything insulting to warrant such treatment. In nearly every thread I post in no matter what the topic religion is brought up and it is not by me. Then when I defend my position on whatever my comment is people post even more insults and basically treat me like less of a person because I use God as my basis for life.
I think you and a number of others should take a long look in the mirror as to why you insult as you do. I am fully aware (probably even more aware than most of you) as to why you hurl the insults at me. It is simply because you do not like God or the Bible, not because you do not like me.
Lets examine why people do not like God for a minute and I am willing to guess that you and many others here will fall into this category. God says do not drink alcohol. People like to drink alcohol so if they were to follow God they would have to give that up. God says do not use profane language. People like to use profanity in their everyday conversations to express their thoughts make jokes etc. People who follow God have to give that up also. How about drugs, dancing, and even promiscuity. That is the biggest problem people have with God. If you follow God you are to have one partner for life. Lets face it, people are not willing to give things up to follow God. Simply put God has rules and prohibitions and most people are tired of rules and prohibitions so they dismiss any and everything about God to ease their conscious. You have rules in your life every second of it and it does get to be tiresome. Do this, dont do that, go here, take this, stop that and whatever you would like to add here.
You have no idea who I am other than a follower of God. Sure my comments are based on a beliefe system and you should know that yours are as well. Have I ever insulted your system of beliefs you or anyone elses for that matter? The resounding answer is no.
I am not the one with the problem here. All I am doing is participating in a forum just as you and everyone else here. People have said in other threads that I should not post anything if it does not apply to music and yet they participate in threads about "nonsense", terrorism, jokes, and the list could go on. That is what is called a double standard. Lets talk about whatever we want but not let people talk about religion.
It boils down to this. As long as I am a member of this board I have as much right to post whatever comments, and toipcs I choose as equally as everyone else here. When you click on the thread and post you are participating as well even if it is to insult, it is still participation.
I hold no bad feeling to you or anyone else that insutls me because as I stated earlier it is not me you insult is is God and the system He stands for. You know that and I know that.
I enjoy talking about this with other people and reading their comments on God. I encourage you and everyone else to continue to participate and post comments and I will continue to sift through the insults and ridicule.
I will be posting a vast amount of information here and it willget very interesting in the near futuer. It will be a great debate and much wisdon will be put to the test for everyone who participates in this thread.
Sit back relax and be a little more tolerant of what other people use as their basis for life. You might find some things to be more interesting if you see them as simply knowledge and not see them as an attempt to change your life.[/QUOTE]
No offense, but there is so much condescension in this post I don't know where to begin. You complain about people insulting you for your beliefs, but have no respect for other's beliefs. You insult those who disagree with you by claiming that they reject god and the bible because their lives don't coincide with a godly life. Is it not possible to live a moral life without believing in god? The bible can be split up into two different sets of laws: those between man and man and those between man and god. Is it not possible to respect and upkeep those between man and man and just not do those between man and god? Does that make the person immoral? or merely irreligious?
You continue to define the truthfulness of the bible through it's own words...in other forums this is commonly referred to as a circular argument. It's about the equivalent of defining a word by using the word itself in the definition. It tells me nothing. Show us proof outside the bible and perhaps then you have a chance of being taken seriously.
I, like the few others who have posted here, come from a very religious background as well. I've studied the bible inside and out as well. I've looked for faith, but you just can't find something like that...you just kinda have to feel it. You do; I don't. I respect those who do have it...it'd be nice if those believers at least had some respect for those who don't...rather than grouping us as immorals. That's just plain pompous, if you ask me...
Re: God does exist
fucking attorneys.
define ''is'' [IMG]http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/1543/denial.jpg[/IMG]
Re: God does exist
just remember, you'd be nowhere if it weren't for us attorneys finding you the loopholes ;)
Re: God does exist
hey, you guys kept me out of jail twice so far......
Re: God does exist
[quote=rubyraks;384489]but have no respect for other's beliefs. You insult those who disagree with you by claiming that they reject god and the bible because their lives don't coincide with a godly life. [/quote]
I disagree with you here. I have not insulted anyone or their beliefs. I am simply stating the facts that have led me to where I am today in my understanding of God and the Bible.
As for not using the Bible to define God, that is like asking scientist to prove the big bang without using science. Since the Bible and God go hand in hand and the Bible claims to be the inerrant infallable word of God then certainly (being a lawyer) you can understnd that it needs to prove its claims.
So if you were in court and made an accusation against an opponent and the judge told you to prove the accusation without referring to the accusation or its origins then I am sure you would think that the judge lost his/her mind.
Fatctually speaking if something/someone makes a claim then it is up to that something/someone to substatiate this claim. Just because it is God does not allow you to change the rules and say prove it without using the one thing God gave you.
Re: God does exist
Just for the record if anyone who does not believe God exists and wants to debate evolution I am well prepared to do that as well.
Re: God does exist
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]At this point CDJ, what's the use? [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]The problem is that the distance between the two arguments is so vast, the viewpoints so staunch, that there really is no way to bridge the gap. You are so certain that your stance is correct that you feel the evidence you provide is, well... [I]self[/I]-evident. Fountains of the deep? Of course! Underwater vents - Praise be to God! Bible says so, must be true.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]But for me, and apparently others here, it just doesn't work that way. To think in those terms is to flatly ignore a whole other world of experience that exists right before our very eyes day after day. I asked you a question earlier in this post regarding a person who lived a life completely unaware of the Catholic world view. You responded with a comparison between the Hindu and Christian creation myth (your version of the Hindu one is a little misleading and off the mark btw), but I think you missed my point all together.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]There is one question I ask people of your esteem that has never been answered, I even had a brief email exchange with Ravi Zachariah about this question and he couldn't answer it either. And the question is this: How can you tell someone who, by all veritable standards, lives a honest, good and moral life that they are wrong [I]just because[/I] they focused their worship on a deity other than the one found in your Good Book? [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]They are just as faithful, honest, caring, kind and true as you - but they thank (for example) the Great Eagle instead of God. They are [I]just[/I] as confident that they are following the right path as you are, and devote just as much time, energy and emotion into living that path as you do, yet you claim time and time again that they are wrong. I'm sorry but that cannot - absolutely, positively - cannot be true. Put up all the "empirical" evidence you want. Make as many claims that the Bible is the only record of note as you like - but at the end of the day, none will answer that question. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]What do you think is more important - the object that is being worshipped or the sincerity, honesty and intensity of that worship? Is it more important to live a good, honest life as you can best incorporate into your being or to follow [I]one[/I] particular version of the oldest story ever told? Do you really, truly believe that God is so petty that he would smite the poor soul who was as just as Job if he worshiped Mithra instead of Him? Does the highest being of all creation value His own popularity over his creation living a good, honest, moral existence regardless who he says his prayers to at night?[/SIZE][/FONT]
As I've said before - the best example that God works in mysterious ways is in the infinite number of masks He's used to show Himself to us. And it is not that mask that matters, but the meaning behind it.
Re: God does exist
bsully I have not been avoiding your question it is just that it would take some time to answer.
I can however tell you why God would do such a thing but it would take a great lenthy discussion on its own.
Re: God does exist
waitasecond
did you just honestly deny evolution?
get on a plane, go to the smithsonian, and look around. if you still have trouble accepting evolution, ask one of the scientists there, they will [B][U]show[/U][/B] you and allow you to look, examine, and verify the existence.
i am now officially comparing this thread to this situation.
you are horny, so you go get a stanley power drill and boring bit, you walk to a tree, bore a hole in it, and try to fuck the tree. no lube, just splinters and people asking ''what the hell is this guy doing?
Re: God does exist
[quote=BSully828;384514][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]What do you think is more important - the object that is being worshipped or the sincerity, honesty and intensity of that worship? Is it more important to live a good, honest life as you can best incorporate into your being or to follow [I]one[/I] particular version of the oldest story ever told? Do you really, truly believe that God is so petty that he would smite the poor soul who was as just as Job if he worshiped Mithra instead of Him? Does the highest being of all creation value His own popularity over his creation living a good, honest, moral existence regardless who he says his prayers to at night?[/SIZE][/FONT]
As I've said before - the best example that God works in mysterious ways is in the infinite number of masks He's used to show Himself to us. And it is not that mask that matters, but the meaning behind it.[/quote]
Well said my friend. I firmly believe in God. In fact I am a devout christian. This fits perfectly into how I see the Lord.
Re: God does exist
Please refer to this thread for a different approach to this and a continuation of this thread
[URL]http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32839[/URL]
Re: God does exist
retreat, stage 1^^
Preach on BSully. CDJ, take notes from him, he is doing are far better job of promoting belief than you are. You slam us with empty bible quotes, he is bringing honest reasoning. I will never accept your narrow view of what I already hold to be true, that being the belief in a higher power and the human spirit. So much for your theory that people hate god....
Re: God does exist
[QUOTE=cowardly dj][QUOTE=rubyraks]but have no respect for other's beliefs. You insult those who disagree with you by claiming that they reject god and the bible because their lives don't coincide with a godly life.[/QUOTE] I disagree with you here. I have not insulted anyone or their beliefs. I am simply stating the facts that have led me to where I am today in my understanding of God and the Bible.[/QUOTE] Did you forget that you had said: [QUOTE=cowardly dj]Lets examine why people do not like God for a minute and I am willing to guess that you and many others here will fall into this category. God says do not drink alcohol. People like to drink alcohol so if they were to follow God they would have to give that up. God says do not use profane language. People like to use profanity in their everyday conversations to express their thoughts make jokes etc. People who follow God have to give that up also. How about drugs, dancing, and even promiscuity. That is the biggest problem people have with God. If you follow God you are to have one partner for life. Lets face it, people are not willing to give things up to follow God. Simply put God has rules and prohibitions and most people are tired of rules and prohibitions so they dismiss any and everything about God to ease their conscious. You have rules in your life every second of it and it does get to be tiresome. Do this, dont do that, go here, take this, stop that and whatever you would like to add here.[/QUOTE]
Next point: [QUOTE=cowardly dj]As for not using the Bible to define God, that is like asking scientist to prove the big bang without using science. Since the Bible and God go hand in hand and the Bible claims to be the inerrant infallable word of God then certainly (being a lawyer) you can understnd that it needs to prove its claims.[/QUOTE] I have no problem with you using the bible to define god, but you still need to prove that definition...just because it says so doesn't make it a fact. The definition may come from within, but the proof needs to come from without. Scientists' proof of the big bang isn't because they write about it.
[QUOTE=cowardly dj]So if you were in court and made an accusation against an opponent and the judge told you to prove the accusation without referring to the accusation or its origins then I am sure you would think that the judge lost his/her mind.
Fatctually speaking if something/someone makes a claim then it is up to that something/someone to substatiate this claim. Just because it is God does not allow you to change the rules and say prove it without using the one thing God gave you.[/QUOTE] First, a lawyer doens't use their opponent to prove their case, they use a lot of outside evidence. Otherwise, every defendent who said they committed the crime would be found guilty without a trial and that's just not true. Or are you saying that John Mark Karr did kill Jon Benet Ramsey because he said he did?
And lastly, I'm not trying to change the rules...I'm all for a valid logical argument. So let me see if understand this correctly: If you're going to prove god's existence through a book that you claim is written by god, could you prove to me that in fact the book was written by god?
Re: God does exist
lawyers!!!
A biker walks into a yuppie bar and shouts, “All lawyers are assholes!” He looks around, obviously hoping for a challenge. Finally a guy comes up to him, taps him on the shoulder, and says, “Take that back.” The biker says, “Why? Are you a lawyer?” “No, I’m an asshole.”
Re: God does exist
[quote=speciale;384622]lawyers!!!
A biker walks into a yuppie bar and shouts, ?All lawyers are assholes!? He looks around, obviously hoping for a challenge. Finally a guy comes up to him, taps him on the shoulder, and says, ?Take that back.? The biker says, ?Why? Are you a lawyer?? ?No, I?m an asshole.?[/quote]
:lol: wrong thread :what :p
Re: God does exist
[QUOTE=speciale;384622]lawyers!!!
A biker walks into a yuppie bar and shouts, “All lawyers are assholes!” He looks around, obviously hoping for a challenge. Finally a guy comes up to him, taps him on the shoulder, and says, “Take that back.” The biker says, “Why? Are you a lawyer?” “No, I’m an asshole.”[/QUOTE] That should read, most, not all.....beeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyoooooooootch ;) :lol:
Re: God does exist
7 pages of crap so far... worst thread ever.
Re: God does exist
God is watching and taking notes :Who:
Re: God does exist
[quote=KinKyJ;384642]7 pages of crap so far... worst thread ever.[/quote]
easy.
Re: God does exist
Look, there is a reason why [I]The Purpose Driven Life[/I] sold over 22 million copies and became [B][U]the best-selling hardcover book in American history. [/U][/B]
I don't think thats because most American's doubt that "GOD EXISTS."
Or are you trying to convince yourself cowardly dj? Whats the purpose?
Re: God does exist
its more of the fact that you cant prove god is real, you hope he is, but no proof exists.
all this crap, and yet, not one single solitary verifiable proofable fact.
Re: God does exist
I don't know why I've even considering continuing this absurd discussion, but here goes:
CDJ, just because the Bible refers to things that exist in the material world does not mean that it must be 100% true and accurate. IMO, the Bible is primarily allegorical in nature, but even if it were a work of pure fiction, you would still expect it to make reference to the world around it, right?
FFS, just because something doesn't read like a Lewis Carroll story doesn't mean it's 100% historically accurate.
Re: God does exist
Someone once told me that if i wanna be somebody with power should believe in any power so maybe the power is faith, maybe the power is the nature or the music good topic
Re: God does exist
Originally Posted by [B]cowardly dj[/B] [I]Lets examine why people do not like God for a minute and I am willing to guess that you and many others here will fall into this category. God says do not drink alcohol. People like to drink alcohol so if they were to follow God they would have to give that up. God says do not use profane language. People like to use profanity in their everyday conversations to express their thoughts make jokes etc. People who follow God have to give that up also. How about drugs, dancing, and even promiscuity. That is the biggest problem people have with God. If you follow God you are to have one partner for life. Lets face it, people are not willing to give things up to follow God. Simply put God has rules and prohibitions and most people are tired of rules and prohibitions so they dismiss any and everything about God to ease their conscious. You have rules in your life every second of it and it does get to be tiresome. Do this, dont do that, go here, take this, stop that and whatever you would like to add here.[/I]
I fail to see how that is insulting others beliefs. That is a statement that I find to be true about the reason people turn from God even outside this forum. It may not be the only reason but sure is one I have run into often times in discussion s with people.
[quote=rubyraks;384614] could you prove to me that in fact the book was written by god?[/quote]
That being the entire purpose of using the Bible's claims to prove themselves. In order for a claim that huge to be true the book itself should be able to have proof contained in its pages. That is the whole thing that I have been going about here, but the more I talk about the Bible the more people get disturbed. I have no problem talking about science and using various means to express my ideas but there are unique things inside the Bible that are undeniable even as far as science is concerned. There are things that are written in the Bible that no man could have possible known while it was written. That is what I keep refering to as scientific foreknowledge.
I am asked to prove the Bible and when I post things about the Bible I get hammered and people say that the Bible can not prove itslef but indeed it can.
People have a hard time accepting things that they do not understand. I am well aware that the great majority of the world can not see past their own perception. That is why they continue to deny the evidence in the Bible no matter how undeniable it actually is.
There is a statement that I often use.... You can prove the things in the Bible are true.....just not to some people....ever.
That is not to say that they can not understand the Bible as it is but that no matter what anyone says they will never accept it. (BTW that is the basis of free will)
I can provide evidence from archeology, astronomy, oceanography, and even some medical evidences contained in the pages of the Bible that are clear evidences of the fact that somehow that knowledge was given to the men who penned it without them being able to know outside of some sort of intervention.
So what I am saying is basically, the Bible can prove itself.
Re: God does exist
[FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Alright - I'll give it one more try. CDJ, I know you're inundated with posts, some hostile, some indignant, so I understand if you haven't been able to get to all the questions - but take a moment and respond to the question I asked earlier. You said it would take ages to answer so précis it for me, use short hand, answer it in a brief cartoon staring the Thundercats - whatever, but at least take a stab at it. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Tell me how someone whose life is just as honest, loving, and spiritually fulfilled as yours is wrong just because he/she prays to a different God. And please, no Bible quotes, no articles from other sources, tell me in [I]your own[/I] words. Tell me why your faith is the correct choice while the faith of another is the [I]in[/I]correct choice.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I'm not trying to insult you here - never been my intention - I'm just trying to get an answer without all the misdirection and smoke and mirrors that have been the case up to this point.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
Re: God does exist
[img]http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7381/2d9f53fc22178bb165c2310e61797119a9280762pz9.gif[/img]
Re: God does exist
^^Disgusting.
Re: God does exist
^^^^^^^^^^this is what the cards play like
Re: God does exist
[quote=BSully828;385061][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I'm just trying to get an answer without all the misdirection and smoke and mirrors that have been the case up to this point.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/quote] In order to answer this question I am going to have to establish some things first. Bear with me as I know that some do not agree with some of the things that I am about to list but they are essential to the understanding of the answer. Keep in mind that these are the things that I find to be fact in my studies. It is my intention to simply answer the questoin but in order to do that I have to answer it the only way I know how and that is using God and the Bible as a basis or a platform if you will. That must be as the question revolves around God anyway. Here are the things that I am basing my answer on. All of these statements are in strict accordance with the true teachings of the Bible, not anyone's opinion.