Re: Why do people hate the USA

[quote=DragonFire]Totally not true .. You can have the super power and be fair to everyone around it .Don't tell me that Bush is fair to the Middle East especially .. Why are the americans in iraq now ?? What was the reason for going ? And what is happening in prisons there ..? That is not bullshit , these are facts. I had this conversation with a friend a couple of days ago who happens to be an american , and he was totally against bush and his policy in the Middle East ..So i personally would have no love for a pro Bush who totally understands where bush is going and why is he doing what he is doing ..and if you dont know :) let me explain[/quote]

To clarify: let's look at some of history's "Superpowers" besides the USA...I know that arguably the concept doesn't technically extend as far back in time as I'm going to go, so I'll also substitute countries that economically or militarily dominated at least regionally for a while.

1. The Roman Empire.
2. The Austro-Hungarians.
3. The Brits back in the 1700s
4. The French, circa Napoleon.
5. The Nazi Era Germans.
6. The Soviets.
7. The Japanese, circa WW2
8. The Chinese, right now

Which of these powers was regarded at the time as "fair to everyone around it"? I doubt they were tops on anyone's Christmas card list.

This isn't to excuse America or any other nation. I'm just observing that this is human nature we're talking about here... It really doesn't change over time, even as our technology and relative global balance of power does. And if your country had the economic and military power right now, you can be sure that things wouldn't be any better.

Re: Why do people hate the USA

i love how all these people take me seriously. lot to learn, huh?

Re: Why do people hate the USA

also, i love how they compare us to other countries that militarily expanded, when the only expansion we had militarily was the civil war and when we broke away from england. this country's expansion to the 50+ was done through land buys and trades with european nations who had control. every military conlfict since the civil war results in us either handing the country to an elected government, or a international ceasefire. so many monkeys...........if we acted like most of the expansion era euro countries, we would own japan, bosnia, some of europe, north korea, north vietnam.

Re: Why do people hate the USA

[quote=DragonFire]Your country is giving aid to iraq and takin their petrol in return , they give 10% of what they take , and the media makes people livin in the states think like your giving . Your country forces to give otherwise look @ iraq now . Countries like Egypt , Saudi , Kuwait and all those can't develop on all basis cause the U.S forms hidden red lines on their development . The point is to keep these countries wanting your help , so don't go like you are really kind and peacefull , You are forcing the other countries to take , otherwise it's war examples are Syira , Iran . When Iran started to develop shit started about them developing weapons that will wipe out the area , fuck that Israel has these weapons , and the States constatly possess and develop even worse kinds of weapons !! Thank you . p.s I have nuthin against the american people , but i have against he who carries a weapon and points it towards me . I have against the politician (Bush) who gives shit about his people and all he is after is petrol cuz him and his dad are makin business out of it[/quote]

kinda misinformed. ill ground the arguement

a. bush doesnt own any stock. neither does his father. thier elections result in thier finances being run in something called a blind trust. (i.e. he doesnt know what stocks he has) they make no money off this war. but yeah they are assholes.

b. the oil for food programme that youare pulling that 10% number from is based upon the ideas of former UN head mr. gali, wheras they saw hussein was hording oil producitons for members of his baath party and funding his own pockets. the UN offered incentives for hussein to release mmroe oil and feed his country since he destroyed the only agricultural center in the middle of iraq because the people opposed him. and when i say destroyed, i mean he cut off the irrigation, and burned the land.

c. our economy dictates more than our leaders, that is why countries like egypt, saudi and kuwait dont develope becuase of a few factors. 1. they dont have much in terms of agricultural or manufactuing high quality goods for export. 2. their governments are corrupt 3. the royal families take all the money.//// but areas that hold goods that can be exported and tariffed, they tend to do better. look at south america. while there are terribly poor regions all over, the entire continent has a fairly well sized economy, based on farming, oil, and indutrial manufacturing.

d. go back and read up on some of the UN resolutions right after WW2, and you will see why the USA, UK and other permanent members of the security council develope weapon. why? because we openly host international oversight. we invite the other nations to examine our military weapons. also, the USA, after realizing how bad the nukes are, and that we had no choice other than to use them, have been the biggest opponent of them. the weapons we hold are merely ''last resort options'' to be used only if we ever encounter another situation like the planet did in the 40's/

Re: Why do people hate the USA

oh god, too much us testosterone here - hope your dicks are as big as your comments :p:roll::lol:

Re: Why do people hate the USA

not really, but like non-US people saying we are fooled by our media, this isnt the only country. media all raound the world maked things look different than they are. lots of misconceptions about america and its government. ppl call our leaders tyrants and whatnot, however, this country implemented term limits to prevent ppl like bush and clinton from taking control. (i used the last 2 presidents simply because they both served two terms.) and the whole Bush makes money off iraq thingy, well... in fact, he doesnt, if anything, he is losing money because the market in general came back to earth, and with the oil costs on the rise, the whole market is slowly devaluing. people say we install governments. show me one. every time we became involved, we never took land, or took control. usually we got rid of ppl like hussien and that guy from somalia, and not to mention slobodan. (read that as people who kill thier own people over politcal or religous differences) and after thier removals, we have done our best to aid in the election of a government that represents the people, not the guys who have the most guns or economic advantage. like i said, the US isnt the only place tha spins media coverage for one reason or another. the only freedoms we lack here are drugs. we dont have nationalized healthcare or insurance simply because of two reasons.

1. we are a capitalism based economy. which obviously works, we are essentially the youngest official nation outside of post- USSR, yet our economy works.
2. we have so many iliegal immigrants within the US that nationalizing anything wouldnt work, the funding isnt there when you have to cater to 800 million ppl, and only 600 million are paying for it.

add in the fact that art majors are talking about governmental operations, economics, and large scale social services,..... well. its like me trying to talk about open heart surgury. i just shouldnt. learn about the topics before you simply express an opinion. i never want to hear someone who opted to study philosophy talk about the national domestic policy. learn about economics, both on themacro and micro scale, learn about taxation, and how laws are passed. learn about the US lobbying procedures, execution of law via policing. simply because they probaly learned about it from an invalid source. go back, read up on the history, development, and maturity of topics in relation to governemnts. a good one to follow right now would be venezula. after that huge victory for chavez, the opposition is lining up to stop him, but in fact he is actually doing some good for the poor there. and he might actually get that place in gear and moving towards a great economy.

EDIT IN

ADD IN the fact that the general ideas that the english settlers brought here and implemented are used by every leading nation thoughout the world. if it werent for those guys, we would have had a much longer rule of fuedal society and church run government. people representing themselves has done nothing but suceed when given the opputunity. look at the recent countries that dont have fairly elected governments. taleban, hussein, the islamic courts union, saudi royal family, the ayatollahs.... they all have massive scales of human rights violations, they all have killed thier own citizens for trivial reasons.

Re: Why do people hate the USA

[quote=thesightless]not really, but like non-US people saying we are fooled by our media, this isnt the only country. media all raound the world maked things look different than they are. lots of misconceptions about america and its government.[/quote]True, that's the difference between perception and reality. However, you can't deny that there's a huge difference between US journalism and European journalism in terms of integrity. In Europe we have less competition between networks and the news isn't really a unique selling point. Whereas in the US networks have to be the first to report and event and/or get the most dramatic footage using the most dramatic presentation of facts. I think you know where I'm going with this in terms of accuracy of facts and journalistic integrity.

Apart from that, the Bush administration used the power of the media extremely well in the aftermath of 9/11 and during the invasion of Iraq. It's only quite recently that US media started to critisize the government instead of glorifying Bush (ok, that's maybe an overstatement, but you know what I mean).

[quote]ppl call our leaders tyrants and whatnot, however, this country implemented term limits to prevent ppl like bush and clinton from taking control. (i used the last 2 presidents simply because they both served two terms.)[/quote]Bush is called a tyrant because of many reasons and none of them have anything to do with terms. I mean, isn't it obvious a democratic country takes measures to prevent it from being turned into a totalitarian regime? Splendid ideas like the Patriot Act, depriving citizens of civil liberties and privacy and the cesspool of lies to justify the invasion of Iraq are things that make me call Bush a tyrant and whatnot...

[quote]people say we install governments. show me one. every time we became involved, we never took land, or took control. usually we got rid of ppl like hussien and that guy from somalia, and not to mention slobodan. (read that as people who kill thier own people over politcal or religous differences) and after thier removals, we have done our best to aid in the election of a government that represents the people, not the guys who have the most guns or economic advantage.[/quote]I won't go as far as to say the US really has literally installed governments/taken land/control in the past, but when I say for instance "Noriega" and "Mobutu", you can fill in the blanks yourself I think.

The US did and does (try to) influence (inter)national politics by sponsoring leaders in strategic spots. You named Saddam as an example. Well, during the war between Iraq and Iran the US provided military training, weapons and what not in order for him to stop the expansion of Iran. But when Saddam went rogue, he had to go.

As for Milosovic... Well, the US didn't remove him from power, NATO did. Moreover, it wasn't the initiative of the US to start bombing the crap out of the Serbs, it was Europe which initiated the mobilisation of NATO.

[quote]we dont have nationalized healthcare or insurance simply because of two reasons.

1. we are a capitalism based economy. which obviously works, we are essentially the youngest official nation outside of post- USSR, yet our economy works.
2. we have so many iliegal immigrants within the US that nationalizing anything wouldnt work, the funding isnt there when you have to cater to 800 million ppl, and only 600 million are paying for it.[/quote]Welcome to Belgium. We have one of the best national health care systems in the world...
3. despite of the fact that we are a "capitalistic" country (I admit, with socialist influences), despite of the fact that our little export based shit economy works and despite of the fact that we're a younger nation than the US (in fact, the US constitution served as a basis for our constitution).
4. despite of the fact that the active population who pays for the system is smaller than the segment of the population getting a pension and requiring more medical care. And that balance problem will only increase in the future. Nevertheless, it will keep existing since it's so fundamental to the overall wellfare that we don't mind working longer and or paying more taxes to keep the system viable.

Btw, what do illegal immigrants have to do with the US not having nationalized healthcare? Do you think we grant the same benefits our citizens get to illegal immigrants? I wonder if there's a country which does do that in fact.

[quote]add in the fact that art majors are talking about governmental operations, economics, and large scale social services,..... well. its like me trying to talk about open heart surgury. i just shouldnt. learn about the topics before you simply express an opinion. i never want to hear someone who opted to study philosophy talk about the national domestic policy.[/quote]What about former actors? :p

[quote]EDIT IN

ADD IN the fact that the general ideas that the english settlers brought here and implemented are used by every leading nation thoughout the world. if it werent for those guys, we would have had a much longer rule of fuedal society and church run government.[/quote]Excuse me? The English settlers??? Boy, I should really read my history books again: I thought the general principles were imported from the French Revolution. So Libby is in fact a present from the Britons too then? Uhm, I feel so misinformed all of a sudden.

As for your remark about our fundi friends... Completely right about that, but I'd like to add it has nothing to do with the Islam. Just read up on how Ataturk transformed Turkey and you'll know it's possible for a muslim country to be a "modern democracy".

Jeeeeez, this is getting way too deep for GYY imo :roll:

Re: Why do people hate the USA

[quote]Btw, what do illegal immigrants have to do with the US not having nationalized healthcare? Do you think we grant the same benefits our citizens get to illegal immigrants? I wonder if there's a country which does do that in fact. ][/quote]

budgets. you pay for something if the money isnt there. our problem is jsut far more dramatic regarding our population size and the percentage of illegals. they currently eat up a large portion of our schooling budgets, particularly in the cities along the coasts. example using genral figures for simplicity. if a local NYC schooling district is collecting revenues at the maximum level they can from 100 typical legal taxpayers and collects say, 100K. the budget is based on a fair value costs to educate and supply 100 students. now you add in 40 more students and no money because they coe from a family where the parents are illegal and not paying into the taxation for schooling, you are operating at a lvl that cannot be successfully sustained without the money.

ok, back to that little hussein thingy, he was an ally, but he lost his mind. for awhile, he was actually a stabilizing force in the region simply because he had the iron hand, however, when the power got to his head, and he started killing innocent people based upon religous and political differences, than yes, he had to go. lord, i hope that the world would help us out if bush killed a few million democrats and muslims because they opposed his political and religious views.

even with the patriot act, which BTW, was just had parts ruled illegal by a supremem court case, we still have every possible freedom outside drugs and sponsored insurance. personally, if the CIA wants to tap a phone of someone calling the middle east, and it might prevent another catastrophy, let em. they arent raiding homes and going through people's lives.

and yes the french revolution was good, but 100 years after the people who settled in massachusettes left england for self rule. (we got here in 1620, FR was in 1789-1789). the primary reason for this was the english king of the period (name?) was changing laws to cater his life. the time had the king being the head of the church and had hte church ruling. they came here, let various protestant and catholic sects live as one away from the rule of the church. even though they based the early colonization upon the existing laws of the english church.

i hope im not coming off like a redneck hick who chants USA USA. im just trying to show facts, rather than opinion.

Re: Why do people hate the USA

also, before someone hops in and tries to say that england ruled the US before the aid of the french, they didnt, they tried yes, but for every settlement they got thier hands into, people moved south and west, trying to avoid them

Re: Why do people hate the USA

[quote=thesightless]budgets. you pay for something if the money isnt there. our problem is jsut far more dramatic regarding our population size and the percentage of illegals. they currently eat up a large portion of our schooling budgets, particularly in the cities along the coasts. example using genral figures for simplicity. if a local NYC schooling district is collecting revenues at the maximum level they can from 100 typical legal taxpayers and collects say, 100K. the budget is based on a fair value costs to educate and supply 100 students. now you add in 40 more students and no money because they coe from a family where the parents are illegal and not paying into the taxation for schooling, you are operating at a lvl that cannot be successfully sustained without the money.[/quote]If you have some decent reading material on the matter, don't let me keep you from passing it. I know too little about the situation in the US to have a decent opinion on it. I wasn't saying the US should adopt the model we have here btw, that just isn't realistic.

[quote]ok, back to that little hussein thingy, he was an ally, but he lost his mind. for awhile, he was actually a stabilizing force in the region simply because he had the iron hand, however, when the power got to his head, and he started killing innocent people based upon religous and political differences, than yes, he had to go. lord, i hope that the world would help us out if bush killed a few million democrats and muslims because they opposed his political and religious views.[/quote] Don't want to bitch, but that was not the reason why the invasion was justified back when the first tomahawks were launched.

Saddam's crimes were invisible in the '80s. The same crimes became grist for front-page demonization of Saddam in the '90s, after - and only after - Saddam threatened Western access to oil.

[quote]even with the patriot act, which BTW, was just had parts ruled illegal by a supremem court case, we still have every possible freedom outside drugs and sponsored insurance. personally, if the CIA wants to tap a phone of someone calling the middle east, and it might prevent another catastrophy, let em. they arent raiding homes and going through people's lives.[/quote]Besides the drugs and sponsored insurance you're forgetting one MAJOR thing: the freedom for women to be dressed monokini on a beach... Hey, to me it's a big deal :lol:

Anyway, I think national safety versus privacy deserves a thread on its own...

[quote]i hope im not coming off like a redneck hick who chants USA USA. im just trying to show facts, rather than opinion.[/quote] Nope, not to me. You're actually one of the few American infidel dogs who includes facts into his postings. ;)

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america is the greatest country in the world...i would never live anywhere else...

Re: Why do people hate the USA

Thanks for validating my last remark chuck :p

Re: Why do people hate the USA

the only thing ill ask, is show me one person you know that even inadvertantly is affected by the patriot act. gonna take you awhile. because all the people who have been, and I AM NOT TRYING TO SOUND RACIST, just frank, have direct ties to the middle east and islamic charitites that send monies to the middle east. they are not raiding the accounts of the CJ foundation for SIDS, they are paying attention to things like the palestinian supporters, and those sending money to unnamed accounts based in the middle east. i know this because a familiy member of mine works for the NYPD anti terrorism group, and has spent parts of the last 4 years in Cuba, Kuwait, and afghanistan doing interrorgations.

if you want to know the difference between tha tthings that our country does that people find objective and the rest,... go read about a day in the life of a guantanamo inmate and what they did the jill carrol. CNN has links to both, or the christian science monitor for carroll's ordeal

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[quote=Katkich]oh god, too much us testosterone here - hope your dicks are as big as your comments :p:roll::lol:[/quote]

My point isn't even that the US is so much greater than everyone else...just that all the rest of you on average suck equally bad, but don't have as many guns right now :D

Although for the record...my personal opinion is that the US is FAR from taking the prize as the most brutal and unjust of empires. That prize in recent history still goes to the Germans and the Russians.

Re: Why do people hate the USA

[quote=thesightless]budgets. you pay for something if the money isnt there. our problem is jsut far more dramatic regarding our population size and the percentage of illegals. they currently eat up a large portion of our schooling budgets, particularly in the cities along the coasts. example using genral figures for simplicity. if a local NYC schooling district is collecting revenues at the maximum level they can from 100 typical legal taxpayers and collects say, 100K. the budget is based on a fair value costs to educate and supply 100 students. now you add in 40 more students and no money because they coe from a family where the parents are illegal and not paying into the taxation for schooling, you are operating at a lvl that cannot be successfully sustained without the money.[/quote]

Your argument is flawed. I don't know how it works in NY but pretty much everywhere else in the US I'm aware of property taxes pay for schools. Since the illegals will need a place to live be it via ownership or rent, they will be paying taxes. Secondly there is people like me who decided I never want kids (I had a vasectomy @ 21), and I am forced to pay around 4K a year for schools which I will never utilize. Then there's my parents who are retired, no longer using that resource. Ooh yeah and they own 2 additional homes as rental properties, which they pay taxes on as well.

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[QUOTE=KinKyJ]Thanks for validating my last remark chuck :p[/QUOTE

]:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Why do people hate the USA

just give it some time....those radical islamists will end up proving us right. just want till they blow up more countries over there....

hell they already bombed trains in spain and had bombings in england....but you all just want to run, hide and pretend nothing is going to happen. let them do as they please....you should feel lucky that somebody in the world is trying to straighting those maniacs out.....because the rest of the world seems like a bunch of pussies

Re: Why do people hate the USA

^^^ [IMG]http://dmw.avpnation.com/members/klowntepes/borat.jpg[/IMG][URL="http://dmw.avpnation.com/members/klowntepes/borat.jpg"][/URL]

Re: Why do people hate the USA

it has good things: -Its the house of Blues and Jazz music (Floyd Council, Muddy Waters, Herbie Hancock, Charles Mingus, etc) -Rock music man, eventhough the British mastered it. -Master movie directors: Ford Copola, Tarantino, Ridley Scott and others I don´t remember right now.

Yea USA politicians are pretty fucked up man but we gotta look for the bright side, hating them wont change anything unless you wanna go Che Guevara on them.

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[quote=thesightless]add in the fact that art majors are talking about governmental operations, economics, and large scale social services,..... well. its like me trying to talk about open heart surgury. i just shouldnt. learn about the topics before you simply express an opinion. i never want to hear someone who opted to study philosophy talk about the national domestic policy. learn about economics, both on themacro and micro scale, learn about taxation, and how laws are passed. learn about the US lobbying procedures, execution of law via policing. simply because they probaly learned about it from an invalid source. go back, read up on the history, development, and maturity of topics in relation to governemnts.[/quote]

so does that mean that you don't get to discuss music because you didn't study it in college?;)

Re: Why do people hate the USA

no, the 200 bucks a month i spend at beatport handles that.:p

add in a few years at twilo.

my question is how does noam chomsky, a guy who spent his early life in linguistics, come off like he knows more about economics than warren buffet?

Re: Why do people hate the USA

i think just because guys like chomsky are more concerned with theory than the nitty-gritty facts. i don't think chomsky's a good example to argue against, though...that guy is quite accomplished. philosophy actually deals with political systems; the founding fathers were philosophers in their own right. so i'd go with kinky and say, ok, but what do ex-actors (and current ones) know about it??

also, everyone's got an opinion on politics because everyone's affected (but as you said earlier, sometimes people are not affected but believe they are). and everyone can vote, which gives them reason to have an opinion, even if it's uninformed. at least that explains why people always comment on shit...they feel entitled.

but i will say this: i don't think buffett and chomsky are really comparable in terms of credibility towards evaluating world economic affairs. i could be wrong, but i think that buffett would focus more on real data, specifics, and economic structure pertaining to current events, while chomsky would focus on the economy and the role it plays in the larger scheme of social issues, government, and ways it impacts/changes in theoretical alternatives. unless you have a quote, i doubt chomsky would say he knows more of the specifics of the inner workings and subtleties of the US economy than buffett. Though one may claim that chomsky does not give that complexity enough consideration when criticizing US policies. indeed, money does not grow on trees.

but also, sometimes the things that the administration do seem so lame-brained...one doesn't need a degree in international politics too see why.:|

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[quote=KinKyJ]^^^ [URL="http://dmw.avpnation.com/members/klowntepes/borat.jpg"][IMG]http://dmw.avpnation.com/members/klowntepes/borat.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/quote]

oh I just wanted to repost this pic - its hilarious :lol::lol::lol:

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[QUOTE]but i will say this: i don't think buffett and chomsky are really comparable in terms of credibility towards evaluating world economic affairs. i could be wrong, but i think that buffett would focus more on real data, specifics, and economic structure pertaining to current events, while chomsky would focus on the economy and the role it plays in the larger scheme of social issues, government, and ways it impacts/changes in theoretical alternatives[/QUOTE]\

my point exactly. (kinda). NC can bitch and moan all he wants about the effects of a changing economy and its effects onthe surrounding areas, but he has zero credibility on why the economy is changing, how the base industries in it operate, nor does he ever relate to one of the largest factors on multi international trade..... tariffs and quotas. i think he needs to ask Mr. Gates on what those are so bill can show him the microsoft check that was written to the EU..

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I think america is a very wealthy country and all with opportunities.......but when i was studying in California("Golden State") for 5 years i was seeing homeless people all over.........in my country you will never see even one homeless person on the streets, i live in Cyprus btw its in Europe :twisted: mainly for americans to know hihihihihihihih Funniest thing was when someone asked me if Greece is part of Africa and if we have roads in my country!!!!

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The most stupid thing I was asked by an American was if we also see the moon in Slovenia - at first I thought he was joking and when I realized that it was a serious question I was so shocked and the only thing I could say was yes we do see the moon and went away

:youdork: :DumbAss: :roflmao:

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^^^ :lol::lol::lol:

Re: Why do people hate the USA

I don't hate Americans >>> [img]http://x55.xanga.com/479840765873116420477/b11816343.jpg[/img]

latoooooooooooorrrrrrr!!