Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

it's all politics, and i'm not a fan of politics. they're boring.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

^Then go watch dogs fart on youtube and leave grown up discussion to the people that are interested in global affairs.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

brb. going to move everything that applies to more than a few people into GYY.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=lancecashion]Navy SEALS have been on the ground in Iran of and on for 5 years. Light them up. Are we going to fight a war are we going to play patty cake with a man sitting on a granade with the pin pulled?[/quote]

the problem is a little deeper than simply 2 armies meeting on a battle ground and going at it. Militants and Militant organizations use Geurilla warfare. Their soldiers use the cloaks of discretion and send suicide bombers across borders to create trouble. It's the very reason that peace doesn't prevail in Iraq and the same technique how Hamas / Hezbolla are supposedly executing their hidden agendas.

You could have Navy Seals sitting in the laps of expected militants, but until you don't know who the militants really are, you dont know who you're going to send the seals to war against.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=picklemonkey]brb. going to move everything that applies to more than a few people into GYY.[/quote]

adam, please keep your opinions where your A-Hole is

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Kamal] You could have Navy Seals sitting in the laps of expected militants, but until you don't know who the militants really are, you dont know who you're going to send the seals to war against.[/quote]

oddly familiar situation eh kamal? aka vietnam. just don't exactly know who the enemy is or where they are.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Vietnam would still seem more in line with a war than what is going in Iraq / the rest of the Middle Eastern Region imo.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

:lol: Jenks.

The horror....the HORROR!

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

I'm just spurting out my opinion. you know. politics threads are for discussing opinions.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

vietnam was a war between governments. sadly, the militants have made it a war between peoples, and even further dividing it into a flat out religious war where the minority is drawing the entire world down upon the few islamic havens left in the world.

its like me, kamal and pickle getting together and attacking things on a massive scale while the US leadership is vehemently against it. and in some instances, the US leadership giving us a nice home to hide in and money to buy more materials.

again, best wishes to my friends in isreal. hoping for the best.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Here we go again with the Vietnam interjection... We pulled out and over 5 million died afterwards in a ripple effect that spilled into Cambodia. Vietnam was a part of the Cold War. It was not a mistake to be there, just a mistake to let politicians run a war... and that is what is happening now in Iraq. Generals runs wars/Politicians run for office. I know many a frustrated Marine who gets shot at and can't shoot back b/c if they do return fire in an urban area, they have to fill out paperwork for the next 3 days. So, basically we are sending them out as armed targets.

Its a war folks, people are going to die and its ugly... Until we take the glooves off and start fighting this like a war, its just going to get worse.

Kamal. Thanks for the lesson in battle tactics and history. The SEALS are the few who DO know who the enemy.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

re: vietnam, you dorks brought up all the political nonsense, i was just saying that the similarity is: walking down the street, our miliarty doesn't exactly know who the enemy is, and who the enemy isn't, which is similar to vietnam. sheesh

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Hokey, everybody be like Fonzie for a sec. WWIII is not going to break out tomorrow because of these attacks. Back in the 70's and the 80's Israel already launched military campaigns against Lebanon and they were on a much larger scale than now. We didn't have a global war on our hands back then either.

However, it's a sign on the wall imo. A sign that after the crumbling of communism a new global enemy is rising, arming itself and acquiring technology. The problem now is that this new enemy isn't bound to states nor wears uniforms. Muslim extremism is much more dangerous in other words than communism ever could be.

Why? Because they don't play by the rules normal states play by. During the Cold War there was the relative safety provided by the fear of MAD and backdoor diplomacy. Nowadays you can't possibly predict where the threat will come from (could be a country like Iran launching a strike or a terrorist cell kidnapping people). Apart from that, I don't see representatives of the Taliban, Al Quaida, Hamas, Hezbollah or whatever flag they fly sitting in the UN or any other pan national body. In other words, diplomacy won't provide an answer here.

Wait, rewind... Diplomacy WILL provide an answer here. Not by negotiating with the enemy, but by negotiating amongst allies in order to get an international front together in which all member states speak the same language and have the same agenda. The lack of unity and organisation within the "Free World" is a weakness muslim fundamentalist exploit to the max right now.

I'm not a political analyst, but the only way we can wipe out the fundamentalist threat imo, is by international cooperation of intelligence services and the political courage AND integrity to crush fundamentalism once and for all (I added integrity because the destruction of the threat should be the only goal at this moment, not oil, territory, ...).

@ sean: interesting that you point out the responsability of the Lebanese and Palestinian people bear for the actions of the people they've elected. Let's talk about the responsability on the heads of those who elected and re-elected the Bush administration... No, I'm not bashing the US, but you can't deny that thanks to the lack of long term vision, Bush and his friends facilitated the shit we're in indirectly. A few examples:

• The transatlantic relationships (NATO) never have been as stressed as they are under his administration.
• In its efforts to stay the only super power in the world, the Bush administration is (partly) responsible for the lack of unity within the EU, making it impossible for the Union to take rapid and determined action.
• Bush violated international law by invading Iraq as well as basic human rights by torturing and abusing prisoners. This scared the shit out of the ME, triggering a defensive reaction (like you see in Iran) as well as further radicalisation.
• Bush abused and weakened the military capacity of the US to "settle a personal vendetta" with Sadam. Capacity that could've been used to fight the real threat now
• The Israeli - Palestinian conflict only got worse due to the administration's lack of long term vision concerining the matter.

I'm not attacking what you said (it's a valid point indeed), nor do I want to bitch about how bad Bush is. My point is that in order to get us out of this mess, the world needs a team with long term vision in the Oval Office and not a pile of hidden agendas.

Sidenote: I'm not looking forward to a third WW, but maybe this is what the world needs in order to wake up. Face it, the way we've been and still are managing our (natural) resources only leads to a situation which will be far worse than a global war. With the depletion of fossil fuel reserves in sight, energy has already become a weapon. You don't have to be a NK rocket scientist to put two and two together to figure out what will happen if we run out of oil... And if you think I've been watching too many Mad Max movies, well just think of the reason why Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. Was it: a. because they were bored b. because someone spiked their sake with xtc c. because they were running out of oil due to their supply being cut off.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

That might be the first intelligent thing i've read from kinky that i can agree with on some levels.

Bravo sir.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Jenks]That might be the first intelligent thing i've read from kinky that i can agree with on some levels.

Bravo sir.[/quote]Coming from you that's quite a compliment Jenks :D

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

You have no idea how difficult it was for me to even type that half ass compliment.

The Isreal v. Lebenon is indeed nothing new, and this pales in comparison to earlier decades. But you hit the nail on the head that this is the sign on the wall, the elephant in the middle of the room.

I don't condone the way Bush went about war, but in his feeble little brain, i think he's been right all along:

NOW is the time to take a stand, to take action to them, not wait for the elephant to knock over everything in the room and move throughout the house.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

I wuv you too :p

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=KinKyJ]Hokey, everybody be like Fonzie for a sec. WWIII is not going to break out tomorrow because of these attacks. Back in the 70's and the 80's Israel already launched military campaigns against Lebanon and they were on a much larger scale than now. We didn't have a global war on our hands back then either.

However, it's a sign on the wall imo. A sign that after the crumbling of communism a new global enemy is rising, arming itself and acquiring technology. The problem now is that this new enemy isn't bound to states nor wears uniforms. Muslim extremism is much more dangerous in other words than communism ever could be.

Why? Because they don't play by the rules normal states play by. During the Cold War there was the relative safety provided by the fear of MAD and backdoor diplomacy. Nowadays you can't possibly predict where the threat will come from (could be a country like Iran launching a strike or a terrorist cell kidnapping people). Apart from that, I don't see representatives of the Taliban, Al Quaida, Hamas, Hezbollah or whatever flag they fly sitting in the UN or any other pan national body. In other words, diplomacy won't provide an answer here.

Wait, rewind... Diplomacy WILL provide an answer here. Not by negotiating with the enemy, but by negotiating amongst allies in order to get an international front together in which all member states speak the same language and have the same agenda. The lack of unity and organisation within the "Free World" is a weakness muslim fundamentalist exploit to the max right now.

I'm not a political analyst, but the only way we can wipe out the fundamentalist threat imo, is by international cooperation of intelligence services and the political courage AND integrity to crush fundamentalism once and for all (I added integrity because the destruction of the threat should be the only goal at this moment, not oil, territory, ...).

@ sean: interesting that you point out the responsability of the Lebanese and Palestinian people bear for the actions of the people they've elected. Let's talk about the responsability on the heads of those who elected and re-elected the Bush administration... No, I'm not bashing the US, but you can't deny that thanks to the lack of long term vision, Bush and his friends facilitated the shit we're in indirectly. A few examples:

• The transatlantic relationships (NATO) never have been as stressed as they are under his administration.
• In its efforts to stay the only super power in the world, the Bush administration is (partly) responsible for the lack of unity within the EU, making it impossible for the Union to take rapid and determined action.
• Bush violated international law by invading Iraq as well as basic human rights by torturing and abusing prisoners. This scared the shit out of the ME, triggering a defensive reaction (like you see in Iran) as well as further radicalisation.
• Bush abused and weakened the military capacity of the US to "settle a personal vendetta" with Sadam. Capacity that could've been used to fight the real threat now
• The Israeli - Palestinian conflict only got worse due to the administration's lack of long term vision concerining the matter.

I'm not attacking what you said (it's a valid point indeed), nor do I want to bitch about how bad Bush is. My point is that in order to get us out of this mess, the world needs a team with long term vision in the Oval Office and not a pile of hidden agendas.

Sidenote: I'm not looking forward to a third WW, but maybe this is what the world needs in order to wake up. Face it, the way we've been and still are managing our (natural) resources only leads to a situation which will be far worse than a global war. With the depletion of fossil fuel reserves in sight, energy has already become a weapon. You don't have to be a NK rocket scientist to put two and two together to figure out what will happen if we run out of oil... And if you think I've been watching too many Mad Max movies, well just think of the reason why Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. Was it: a. because they were bored b. because someone spiked their sake with xtc c. because they were running out of oil due to their supply being cut off.[/quote]

They have been fighting for 1000s of years, I could hardly say Bush has much to do with what is going on.... You did exaxtly what you said you didn't do, which was bitch about Bush. BTW, we did not violate international law by invading Iraq. There was no official treaty, only a cease fire since Gulf War 1. The Iraqi military fired on coalition planes in the no fly zone almost every day since the cease fire.

Maybe you can tell me how many UN Resolutions have to be passed before action is taken??? BTW, the UN is more worried about me owning a shotgun than the shit that is going on in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter. Follow the money and the UN will be there fleecing in some manner (Oil for Food, etc.)

Hey Bush needs to grow a pair... Damn, just when you need Ronald Regan.

[I]>My point is that in order to get us out of this mess, the world needs a team with long term vision in the Oval Office and not a pile of hidden agendas.[/I]<

What governement in this world in not run by people with hidden agendas? Political science professors must be smoking way too much dope these days.... wait, they always have smoked way to much dope.

Beat it nerds

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

<<<<< greatest president ever

[URL="http://www.wwwk.co.uk/images/people/politics/ronald-reagan.jpg"] [/URL]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=lancecashion]Kamal. Thanks for the lesson in battle tactics and history. The SEALS are the few who DO know who the enemy.[/quote]

I'd never have guessed ;)

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=lancecashion]They have been fighting for 1000s of years, I could hardly say Bush has much to do with what is going on.... You did exaxtly what you said you didn't do, which was bitch about Bush. [/quote]Not to suck Clinton's dick, but things did look a tad better at the "end" of his term... Apart from that, this thread isn't about Bush at all :roll:

[quote]BTW, we did not violate international law by invading Iraq. There was no official treaty, only a cease fire since Gulf War 1. The Iraqi military fired on coalition planes in the no fly zone almost every day since the cease fire.[/quote]Oh, so now it was because they fired their toy guns at your jets... Ignorant me thought it was because of WMD. Wake up lance, your administration has fed you, me and the rest of the world false info non stop. Btw, don't give me that cease fire crap, that's just lame.

[quote]Maybe you can tell me how many UN Resolutions have to be passed before action is taken??? BTW, the UN is more worried about me owning a shotgun than the shit that is going on in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter. Follow the money and the UN will be there fleecing in some manner (Oil for Food, etc.) [/quote]Read my post again. What part of "diplomacy won't provide an answer here" is it that you don't understand?

I agree with you that the UN has become ineffective, but I see that as an incentive to reform the organisation instead of ignoring/rediculising it. What's the alternative? Unilateral action? Yeah, we all see where that has led to :roll:

And as for the money... Well yeah, probably you've never heard of UNESCO or UNICEF before. Should we cut them off too because of what went wrong in the OFF programme?

[quote]Hey Bush needs to grow a pair... Damn, just when you need Ronald Regan.[/quote]Care to elaborate on that? Don't get that remark at all..

[I][quote]>My point is that in order to get us out of this mess, the world needs a team with long term vision in the Oval Office and not a pile of hidden agendas.[/I]<

What governement in this world in not run by people with hidden agendas? Political science professors must be smoking way too much dope these days.... wait, they always have smoked way to much dope.

Beat it nerds[/quote]Beat it populist

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=davetlv]Kamal

When you cross the border, blow up a military vehicle on soverign undisputed Israeli territory, kill our soldiers, abduct two more, then you have opened the floodgates.

Simple no?[/quote]

when you invade countries, kill innocent people, break every international law possible, destroy people's houses, occupy land that doesn't belong to you then you have opened the mother of all floodgates.

what a hypocrite, you should be the last person to talk about aggression. Nobody does it better than Israel. What's a jewish country doing in the middle of 30 Arab countries. Go back to Germany or russia, it's where the majority of jews living in israel now came from.

It's nice having America on your side. Oh and by the way, do any of you americans know where billions of your tax money goes? Yes, you guessed it, NOT loans BUT donations to israel. Israel has no economy and relied on the US throughout its history to bankroll its existence in the middle east.

simple no?

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

^And now they're paying us back for it by sticking it to Hamas and eventually Iran. :p

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Jenks]^And now they're paying us back for it by sticking it to Hamas and eventually Iran. :p[/quote]

yes and watch your soldiers fall one by one in iraq and afghanistan.:p

Your country might be sending you to iraq soon since they're running out of reservists. :lol:

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=sono] Your country might be sending you to iraq soon since they're running out of reservists. :lol:[/quote]

not a chance commie, i'm 31 and missing a kidney. WOO HOO!!!!

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[COLOR=white][FONT=Arial]I just read this whole fucking depressing ass thread and I think it was interesting who ultimately came out on top(and I know this thread is far from fucking dead too so the score could change) but Kinky obviously has some brains going on because I think he's the only one making sense. And I found it a little bit sad to see Lance, someone I have respected as an artist for quite some time, start to lean to the right more and more with his theories. It's not about fucking a cease fire and planes that sent us into Iraq -thats a lame ass excuse-we all know it was (according to what we were told) about WMD's and the "link" to 911 (which was horseshit) and I'm not going to suppose I know ALL of the hidden agendas within our current admin but how the fuck can you justfiy the retarded moves we've been making if it hasn't served someone to make them. Haliburton and other no bid winners of contracts to rebuild these regions we're decimating and all that other shit have benefited from these moves and at the same time there’s also the fact that I think our current admin honestly is so retarded with Christian (I’m christian too but you know the kind of christian I’m talking about-Like WWJD kind of Christian) Theologies that they have no comprehension of how to find a way for the US to stop making enemies and start rebuilding friendships. No opportunity to bring the world together was squandered more effectively than in the 6 years following 911-that was a time when every fucking country in the world was like-“we’re with you [/FONT][FONT=Arial]America[/FONT][FONT=Arial]” and now we’re like the most hated country in the world. ONE of the reasons people think we’re retarded is for effectively rendering the UN impotent by making an unsanctioned offensive into Iraq and alienating the majority of the world who could see through the thin veil of Bullshit wmd and unsubstantiated Iraq 911 links. If we hadn’t done that-the WORLD’s UNITED NATIONS would be far more feared and respected and ultimately more capable of keeping this fucking planet together-[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]I have to go now-this makes me sad and I don’t have the energy to monitor the thread as people pick this shit apart[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]I’ll check in later and see how my shit fares…….[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Jenks]not a chance commie, i'm 31 and missing a kidney. WOO HOO!!!![/quote]

is that enough ? :lol:

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Alexfish, to be fair, the UN was impotent long before 9-11.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Jenks]Alexfish, to be fair, the UN was impotent long before 9-11.[/quote]

Ok I'll give you that but they're more impotent now

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

:lol: I didnt realize you could be MORE impotent, either you're up, or your depressed :p

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

to end a war like this diplomatically you have to understand the people that are included in both sides and this is where the western world goes wrong because most of these people hate the western world full stop and then the western world tries to help it by getting people to talk but the general population of the people included on both sides then starts to think that the western world just sticks its nose into something that doesnt concern them, its a no win situation

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

the UN is a complete waste of space that has never achieved anything and never will because nobody will ever agree on anything collectively

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Localizer]Israel likes to follow in the footsteps of the US. Break that sovereignty...[/quote]

You are the equivalent to the anti-semites of WWI and WWII.

Even Saudi Arabia announced today that the guilt lies upon the doorstep of Hamas, and Lebanon.

Utter tripe, IMO.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

1. [quote]Here we go again with the Vietnam interjection... We pulled out and over 5 million died afterwards in a ripple effect that spilled into Cambodia. Vietnam was a part of the Cold War. It was not a mistake to be there, just a mistake to let politicians run a war... and that is what is happening now in Iraq. Generals runs wars/Politicians run for office. I know many a frustrated Marine who gets shot at and can't shoot back b/c if they do return fire in an urban area, they have to fill out paperwork for the next 3 days. So, basically we are sending them out as armed targets. [/quote] most intelligent post here outside of the general idea that we need peace.

2. ending a war dimplomatically does nothing good outside of solving the short term problem. you create lonh standing grudges and ideals that shouldnt be fostered when one country has to give up something they have ingrained into thier heads. look at how muslims across the planet still hate jews. these feelings last long and swell for years until they blow up.(hitler) it only harbors and creates more hate and nonsense because the party that loses in the end feels like it has been shortchanged, robbed, or commanded. diplomacy only works when its a tiff and both parties are eager to try it. when one party isnt, it is just delaying the inevitable. when it is something deeper, terribly, historically, and in reality, it comes down to a fight, and winner is the one who will go farther. and that fact, relating to the middle east, is what scares me most.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

US Petrol and consumers dollars go a long way China formerly a communist economy now has more money than it knows what to do with Russia less than 20 years ago flat busted from the cold war Both have the cash and power to leverage N Korea and Iran situations Iran has petrol income as well and economic relations with both China and Russia This shit is gonna play out till the Western countries stop being oil dependent This conflict though will end like all the other fights over the past fifty years bloodshed, bloodshed, negotiations, truce, then more bloodshed. Don't worry people You'll still have to go to work tommorrow.

Time to go work Let the US do what it does best [URL="http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/air-recent/b52-bombs.jpg"][IMG]http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/air-recent/b52-bombs.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=cosmo]You are the equivalent to the anti-semites of WWI and WWII.

Even Saudi Arabia announced today that the guilt lies upon the doorstep of Hamas, and Lebanon.

Utter tripe, IMO.[/quote]

So I suppose because Saudi's say they denounce it (which of course has lots of American investors conducting business in their country), I must be wrong? Crass imo.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Saudi Arabia is suddenly the voice of reason just because it sided with the americans. Hypocrites. :roll:

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

and you forget that they were attacked too eh ?

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

At some point you have to stop trying to understand all diffeent cultures, you cannot be friends with everyone in the first place. Other than that:

The UN has had it's successes, but it's so much easier to bring up the failures. Weak IMO. Right now they're shooting the shit out of rebel groups in the Congo for example, keeping Ethiopia/Eritrea from going to war again, keeping the North and South in Cote D' Ivoire from going to war again and there are a few more. It's a pity though that the US's action has indeed undermined it's authority more than anything else could've done.

I'm still in the middle of dimplomacy and violence: by no means is it so that dimplomacy just fosters long-standing grudges and such, if you think so you have not been watching history. Nations have emerged through a mixture of both, no by siple subjection of one by the other. I'm getting sick with over-dimplomatic attitudes on one hand, and the view that blunt violence will solve everything on the other.

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[quote=Yao]I'm still in the middle of dimplomacy and violence: by no means is it so that dimplomacy just fosters long-standing grudges and such, if you think so you have not been watching history. Nations have emerged through a mixture of both, no by siple subjection of one by the other. I'm getting sick with over-dimplomatic attitudes on one hand, and the view that blunt violence will solve everything on the other.[/quote]Very true, just look at the Balkan: hundreds of years of ethnic/religious frictions and now almost 15 years after the last war, things have improved dramatically and all minorities/population groups are working together to get their country back on the rails...

But true also that it took a lot of NATO bombs and US/EU pressure/support to get them to this point.