If you believe in God, then you must believe in the Devil?

What is the word on the unholy One? Does hell exist?

These are all unanswered questions i'd be interested to hear your views on, God botherers and unbelivers alike. Logically, Hell must be the opposite of Heaven, therefore if the 10 commandments are to be believed the reverse is true in Hell. Stealing and bearing false wittness will be common place, the pleasures of the flesh and carnal endevours a top pastime.

The other view, possibly could be that Hell is the sin bin for bad Christians and that the unbelieves will go to neither, and what about the other faiths? Do they have their own Heaven and Hell or do they not pass go, do not collect ?200 and end up in limbo?

Any Devil worshippers posting here, time to have your say.

Re: The Devil

God put me on this planet to accomplish a certain amount of tasks, I am so far behind I will never die.

Re: The Devil

welcome cdj :p

Re: The Devil

Hey!

Re: The Devil

both are symbolic ideas for things we cannot otherwise define. higher consciousness allows us to meditate on morality and justice and what is right and fair, but our track record is spotty here. there is good, peaceful and harmonious potential we like to dream about and aspire for, and there are hateful, war mongering, and greedy tendencies that don't die or go away. one extreme to the other, and we're stuck in the middle able to think about either but unable to personify our meditative ideals. heaven-hell, good-bad, yin-yang, god-devil. can't have one without the other, i agree.

but it's all here, now. god is the pull toward one extreme, the motivating factor beyond what we can reason in our head, life force in that neural stew beyond facts. devil too, and hell is the tormented mind unable to make peace with the border in that stew between what we are thinking and the factless motivation behind it. but the symbol and myth of religion doesn't work for everyone. lots of people, great. but when people get a tormented head about needing to please god it's just counter productive.

Re: The Devil

[quote=Morgan]If you believe in God, then you must believe in the Devil? [/quote]

[COLOR=black][COLOR=slategray][COLOR=silver]I wouldn’t necessarily agree with you on that. Well maybe if you specified by saying “If you believe in [I]the Judeo-Christian[/I] God…”, then I’d agree, but if you mean God in that more broad, cross cultural sense then I’d disagree. God, by definition, is beyond all forms of comparison and pairs of opposites (good and evil, being one). So one might say to truly understand God – or understand to the best of our human abilities – you have to see through those kinds of categories. [/COLOR] [COLOR=silver][/COLOR] [COLOR=silver]Take Shiva for example: Some portraits show him carrying a flaming sword, wearing a skull necklace and blood dripping down his chin - Pretty scary muthafucka and you’d probably shit a brick if you saw that character walking down Main St. But there’s another idea in the Hindu belief that goes along with that image, the idea that Shiva cuts away all the human trappings and bindings that keep us in this eternal cycle of life-death-life-death. If you’re so immersed in the ordinary, the temporal, the vices of the flesh – then Shiva will come at you like a fuckin demon waving a flaming sword (or, say, pitchfork) and along with it all the fear, pain, sorrow and grief that one would experience by being ripped away from the comfort of mortal life. [/COLOR] [COLOR=silver][/COLOR] [COLOR=silver]But if you realize just how fleeting this existence is, and how truly meaningless the cares and concerns of modern life are, then Shiva is not a demon but a porter – a guide to the next phase who cuts away all the chains of earthly living with his flaming sword. Both images are inherent in that idea of Shiva, and both are true – depending on which side of the fence you stand.[/COLOR] [COLOR=silver][/COLOR] [COLOR=silver]That’s a very weak interpretation of a very old idea, but you get the gist. [/COLOR] [/COLOR][/COLOR]

Re: The Devil

This is always a good question. i find it harder all the time to believe in the god i was taught to believe in. the christian god. i definately believe in A god but im really confused on the actual form of this being. It might not even be a spiritual god, more of a creator type god. maybe that god is actually a race? point is i just dont know anymore. my new religion/belief is confusionism i guess

Re: The Devil

Read the Bible and check out Revelation specifically. It describes Hell as the Lake of Fire. Not a place you'd want to be.

Re: The Devil

Imo, there is no devil, no hell, no heaven, no god, as it is written in the bible.

"god," as people like to refer to [B]IT[/B], is "the spirit" "the soul" of ALL things.

Yes. It's really that simple.

Energy.

Religion does a great disservice by casting God/Satan in a human light.

imo anyway. ;)

And that's all i'll ever have to say in these long winded useless arguments people make about god/satan/heaven/hell..

Re: The Devil

[quote=Jenks]Imo, there is no devil, no hell, no heaven, no god, as it is written in the bible.

"god," as people like to refer to [B]IT[/B], is "the spirit" "the soul" of ALL things.

Yes. It's really that simple.

Energy.[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

There is no greater example of arrogance as there is in the man who thinks he can understand God. To think that there is an equal or opposite of God (i.e. Devil) is to think that God operates on the same level as we do.

"Turn everything into what is really is: The abstract, the spirit, the nagual. There is no witchcraft, no evil, no devil. There is only perception." -- Carlos Castaneda

Re: The Devil

[COLOR=red]The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled[/COLOR] [COLOR=orange]was convincing the world[/COLOR] [COLOR=yellow]he didn't[/COLOR] [COLOR=silver]exist[/COLOR]

Re: The Devil

Nice CS Lewis quote there ^ he was always good on the subject of Heaven and Hell. His book The Great Divorce is really thought provoking.

I've heard hell described as a place where you still have all your earthly desires (food, sex, air, companionship etc) but without being able to ever fulfill any of them. Kind of like an eternity of absolutely nothing, but being concious throughout. Heaven on the other hand is complete contentment and fulfillment in every way all the time. Sound good to me!

Re: The Devil

acutally the website i saw that quote just now says.. "This was first said by the famous [URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=French%20poetry"][COLOR=white]French poet[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=white] [/COLOR][URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Charles%20Baudelaire"][COLOR=white]Baudelaire[/COLOR][/URL] in an unusual [URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=short%20story"][COLOR=white]short story[/COLOR][/URL] about meeting the Devil and having [URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=a%20grand%20old%20time"][COLOR=white]a grand old time[/COLOR][/URL]."

hell resident dj - tiesto heaven resident dj - digweed

Re: The Devil

i don't know about a God...i believe in more of a catalyst...something that sparked existence (i.e., big bang theory). we use God and religion just as we have presidents and laws. it just so happens that God's rules are pretty basic to any species and some societal rules (e.g., you shall not kill - this is for survival of our species...primates are known to kill they're own kind because of territorialism....you shall not lie or bear false witness - this is a society rule just to keep things simple). as far as the devil goes. well that is just folklore. cool stories to read (i.e., morning star ect.). also reading about the 7 events of the apocalypse in the bible is cool.

for the religious buff who absolutely believe in God. don't you realize that you've only heard one side of the story. it's like your ex's friends how they all hate you because according to one source, you're an asshole. maybe he ain't that bad anyhow. i think lucifer/damian/ beazlebub/satan and his dark angel asrael have gotten a bad rap.

thoughts?

Re: The Devil

[quote=unome]acutally the website i saw that quote just now says.. "This was first said by the famous [URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=French%20poetry"][COLOR=white]French poet[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Charles%20Baudelaire"][COLOR=white]Baudelaire[/COLOR][/URL] in an unusual [URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=short%20story"][COLOR=white]short story[/COLOR][/URL] about meeting the Devil and having [URL="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=a%20grand%20old%20time"][COLOR=white]a grand old time[/COLOR][/URL]." [/quote] Ah, well Lewis "borrows" from him in his Screwtape letters book

Re: The Devil

^^ fuck me.. look who it is.

Yo my fellow Cleckhuddersfaxian, hows it hanging?

Re: The Devil

The more I learn the more it starts to look like a mix of what Bsully (Hindu) and Jenks (energy) said.

Re: The Devil

do I dare enter this conversation?

sure

well Satan is an angel cast our of Heaven by God. He is the "prince of the world", "the great tempter", along with other names.

One thing that people need to know about God (even if they do not beleive it is still good info) is that when he designed everything he designed it with free moral will. That means the He is not a dictator. When he made good he also made evil. If not then we would be like robots always doing what we are told with no choice in the matter.

There is a heaven and a hell. the choice is up to each person to decide if they are going to follow what God tells them. It is a very basic concept of choices vs. consequences. Just like we tell our children-- if you pick that up I will spank you, or if you do not bring home passing grades you will be grounded. We tell them of the bad to hopefully encourage the good but it is ultimately their choice. God has done the same for us.

The only reason people do not believe the Bible is because they do not want to see it, not because it is not true. Any person who studies the Bible like they studied in college (assuming they were studious) would understand the truth in it. After a while it becomes self-evident in truth.

Fact: We are here.

Fact: We were created, no scientific evidence says otherwise. I challenge anyone to show scientific evidence we came from a gelatinous blob.

Fact: All cultures look for a supreme being. If man were the pinnacle of existence then explain the religious phenomenon that has existed for as long as man has. We are all looking for the greater good we know is out there. It is by design we feel that way.

Fact: All forms of religious doctrine except Christianity have been proven false by breaking down the book/people that/who claim to be their guidance. The Bible is the only one that has stood the test of time. It has been proven true time after time after time even in the highest doubt.

Just because most people do not understand the Bible does not make it not understandable. Imagine if your math prof in trig class gave you the book and said I will be back at the end of the year and there will be a test to see if you studied. Good luck and he left. You have 2 choices 1. Pass 2. Fail There is no in-between here. You can not almost pass or almost fail. The choice is yours. At the end of the year there will only be two types of people in the class, those who studied to pass and those who did not. It will be up to each person to decide to study or not. When the teacher comes back and gives the test it will be plain and clear who studied and who did not. The Bible is the same. IF people put as much effort into learning the absolute truth of the Bible as they did to pass college then there would not be so many false doctrines out there.

The Bible is the absolute truth of everything, it is proven so through time (the ultimate test)

Re: The Devil

I don't believe in either

Re: The Devil

[quote=cowardly dj] God.... He

God... he

...He

...he

he....

[/quote]

^the biggest flaw in christianity.

[quote]The Bible is the absolute truth of everything,[/quote]

^an opinion.

Here's a fact for you to chew on: Christianity becomes less popular every day.

Re: The Devil

@Cowardly

That's my biggest complaint of the Christian based religions. No offense to anyone in advance. But the whole your wrong for not living by one book as opposed to another, and your going to hell for eternity is just silly. I'm more inclined to believe that you'll be reincarnated to try again. Much like your math class example. You have lessons to learn while your here, if you learn them you move on to the next level. If not you fail and are forced to sit through the 10th grade and take another shot at it. You don't just fail and that's it. Remember God if forgiving.

If God is all encompassing, wouldn't that include evil too? Secondly if the God your Bible speaks of is ego-less, why would he ask us to pray to him?

Here's my take: I believe that God is the energy we were created from; a combined spirit. That being the case we are all God, only seperated temporarily while we live out this physical experience. When we die, we rejoin/become part of God again. Now when the Bible or any other holy text says we are to honor, pray, praise God, its really just saying be good to your fellow humans, creatures (yeah, I know the Bible believes animals don't have souls, but I think thats wrong), etc. since they are part of God too.

Re: The Devil

[quote=Jenks][quote]The Bible is the absolute truth of everything,[/quote]^an opinion.[/quote]
Exactly...and exactly the reason I think all religion is bullshit. Why don't you try developing your own thoughts instead of letting some "sacred text" that was supposedly written years after the events it depicts think for you.

[quote=neoee]But the whole your wrong for not living by one book as opposed to another, and your going to hell for eternity is just silly[/quote] See above

[quote=cowardly dj]Fact: We were created, no scientific evidence says otherwise. I challenge anyone to show scientific evidence we came from a gelatinous blob.[/quote] And I challege you to show ANY (scientific or otherwise) evidence, other than some book full of myths and passed down legends that were bent and twisted to suit the authors liking, that some "god" waived his hand and created everything we see.

Re: The Devil

noee, for one to believe something it has to come from somewhere

where do your ideas about God come from?

evangelion... the proof is in the pudding, no need to go anywhere else for the truth when it comes from the Bible. It would be pointless to look elsewhere for the answer you have in front of you.

As I have said many times before and will say many times again... people think the Bible is a story because they have not studied it enough to know that it is the absolute truth on everything. People speak of the Bible as they know all about it when in fact they no very little or they could not say it was just a "book"

I have in my library many books and many accounts of history that prove the Bible is from God and that the writers were inspired of God

Can anyone tell me who was the first astronomer?

Re: The Devil

it's passed down from Mormons that John Smith's 'Book of Mormon' is all fact. do you agree that it's fact, cdj?

Re: The Devil

My ideas come from observation, nature, and pieces from other religions. Also when many different religions believe the same thing (reincarnation) I believe it to be closer to the truth than if only one religion says something (hell).

So explain to me why the Bible is the right book and not any other text. Actually instead tell me why the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Bhagavat Gita, the Koran, the Adi Granth are wrong. And please in your own words.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000066] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Re: The Devil

[quote=neoee][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]And please in your own words.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000066] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

Coward ly has no thoughts of his own.

Re: The Devil

[quote=picklemonkey]it's passed down from Mormons that John Smith's 'Book of Mormon' is all fact. do you agree that it's fact, cdj?[/quote]

I had a long discussion at this link about that starting at page 17 [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19322&page=17&highlight=cowardly"]http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19322&page=17&highlight=cowardly[/URL]

but to sum it up: point 1 Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was given divine revelation by God. The Bible says that only the 12 apostles were given divine revelation. John 16:13 Jesus tells the apostles they will be guided by the Holy Spirit to all truths. The book of Mormon was established because Smith says that Jesus told him there was no church suitatble for him to join so Smith was to bring the church back to the world. They say that he is a prophet. The reason there were prophets was to pass on Gods word to the people. The Mormons say that he was given divine revelation because the Bible was not complete. IF that were the case then when Jesus said to the apostles in John 16:13 that they would be guided to all truths then it comes to Smith vs. Jesus to see who is right. If Jesus said ALL TRUTHS then the Mormons do not take the word all to mean all. It seems to them that Jesus was erring when he said all truths. If Smith was right then Jesus was wrong and the very thing Smith is trying to uphold is flawed and useless to anyone, especially Smith.

point 2 In 1 Corinthians (mostly chapter 13) tells us of the spiritual gifts and what they are used for and in verse 10 tells us when they are going to cease, which BTW was when the Bible came to completeness. After the last apostle was dead and wrote no more, the Bible was complete and we have all truths. Smith said that there were still truths to be had 1800 years after the Bible was complete so he was given divine revelation. If the Bible tells us that all gifts will cease then how can Smith claim to have something that the Bible says does not exist anymore. Again it comes down to Smith trying to claim things that the very Bible he claims to uphold clearly speaks in opposition of Smith's concept.

So picklemonkey the answer to your question is no, I do not believe Joseph Smith.

Re: The Devil

[quote=neoee]My ideas come from observation, nature, and pieces from other religions. Also when many different religions believe the same thing (reincarnation) I believe it to be closer to the truth than if only one religion says something (hell).

So explain to me why the Bible is the right book and not any other text. Actually instead tell me why the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Bhagavat Gita, the Koran, the Adi Granth are wrong. And please in your own words.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000066] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

I can and will show you neoee but I am about to watch a movie with the family so it will be later;)

Re: The Devil

[quote=Jenks]Coward ly has no thoughts of his own.[/quote]

thanks I will work on that ;)

Re: The Devil

[COLOR=silver]Anyone else seeing this thread is turning into another [I]Cowardly Vs The Heathens[/I] real quick?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver][quote]The Bible is the absolute truth of everything, it is proven so through time (the ultimate test)[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=silver][quote]Fact: All forms of religious doctrine except Christianity have been proven false by breaking down the book/people that/who claim to be their guidance. The Bible is the only one that has stood the test of time. It has been proven true time after time after time even in the highest doubt.[/quote][/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]Both those statements of yours, CDJ are overflowing with a certain "deadly sin" that your faith warns about (Hint: Starts with a P ends with a RIDE). [/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]If longevity is the “ultimate test”, then the jury is still out on Christianity my friend. What’s it been, 2000 years now? People have been praying to Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma and the rest of the Hindu pantheon going back to 800 BC, Artifacts dating before 2000 BC show that the Egyptians were paying worship to their gods, and they were [I]still[/I] in use through the first century AD. The Tammuz-Dumuzi followers of ancient Sumer hung around from 3500 BC all the way and beyond the birth of Christ. (If it’s proof you want, I direct you to Joseph Campbell’s four volume Masks of God, or your local museum)[/COLOR] [COLOR=#c0c0c0][/COLOR] [COLOR=silver]So if time is the “ultimate test” than what’s your explanation for those faiths that were around much longer than Christianity? And sorry, saying that they were influenced by the God of the Bible or that the Bible is the truth because the Bible says so won’t work – circular logic need not apply.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]All of those faiths mentioned above were filled to the brim with fanatics like yourself who were dead certain that their way was the right way. They even used the same arguments as you use right now to prove the validity of their beliefs, looked down their nose at nonbelievers like you do. Now you look back at those gods and goddesses and say, “Nope, not even close – THIS is the right way” after only 2000 years in existence? Sorry man, you’ve got some more time to put in before you can start throwing those kinds of statements around.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver][/COLOR]

Re: The Devil

[quote=BSully828][COLOR=silver]Anyone else seeing this thread is turning into another [I]Cowardly Vs The Heathens[/I] real quick?[/COLOR][/quote]

Jenks bit first... all CDJ does is reel us in...

Re: The Devil

[quote="CDJ"]but to sum it up: point 1 Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was given divine revelation by God. The Bible says that only the 12 apostles were given divine revelation. John 16:13 Jesus tells the apostles they will be guided by the Holy Spirit to all truths. The book of Mormon was established because Smith says that Jesus told him there was no church suitatble for him to join so Smith was to bring the church back to the world. They say that he is a prophet. The reason there were prophets was to pass on Gods word to the people. The Mormons say that he was given divine revelation because the Bible was not complete. IF that were the case then when Jesus said to the apostles in John 16:13 that they would be guided to all truths then it comes to Smith vs. Jesus to see who is right. If Jesus said ALL TRUTHS then the Mormons do not take the word all to mean all. It seems to them that Jesus was erring when he said all truths. If Smith was right then Jesus was wrong and the very thing Smith is trying to uphold is flawed and useless to anyone, especially Smith.[/quote]

That doesn?t matter CDJ, because the Mormons believe Smith was right, so you are wrong. And the Muslims think they are right too. And the Hindus too. And the Buddhists too. And me too.

[quote="CDJ"]point 2 In 1 Corinthians (mostly chapter 13) tells us of the spiritual gifts and what they are used for and in verse 10 tells us when they are going to cease, which BTW was when the Bible came to completeness. After the last apostle was dead and wrote no more, the Bible was complete and we have all truths. Smith said that there were still truths to be had 1800 years after the Bible was complete so he was given divine revelation. If the Bible tells us that all gifts will cease then how can Smith claim to have something that the Bible says does not exist anymore. Again it comes down to Smith trying to claim things that the very Bible he claims to uphold clearly speaks in opposition of Smith's concept.[/quote]

Yes, but the Mormons still believe they are right and you are wrong CDJ, because the book of Mormon tells them it is right and the Bible was wrong.

[quote="CDJ"]well Satan is an angel cast our of Heaven by God. He is the "prince of the world", "the great tempter", along with other names.

One thing that people need to know about God (even if they do not beleive it is still good info) is that when he designed everything he designed it with free moral will. That means the He is not a dictator. When he made good he also made evil. If not then we would be like robots always doing what we are told with no choice in the matter.[/quote]

If God created evil?he created something contrary to all he stands for. Explain this.

[SIZE="1"]Oh, and the Mormons and Muslims and me still think we are right and you are wrong. Sorry.[/SIZE]

[quote="CDJ"]There is a heaven and a hell. the choice is up to each person to decide if they are going to follow what God tells them. It is a very basic concept of choices vs. consequences. Just like we tell our children-- if you pick that up I will spank you, or if you do not bring home passing grades you will be grounded. We tell them of the bad to hopefully encourage the good but it is ultimately their choice. God has done the same for us.

The only reason people do not believe the Bible is because they do not want to see it, not because it is not true. Any person who studies the Bible like they studied in college (assuming they were studious) would understand the truth in it. After a while it becomes self-evident in truth.[/quote]

Wow. So if I study the Qur?an, the Torah and whatnot I would understand that they are right too? Man?I must be wrong on so many fronts, and so many ways! Jeez?Life is so boring if I live by one or more of the holy books?I don?t wanna live in such a boring colourless world, I think I?ll jump off a cliff. Oh..fuck?su?cide is a sin. Damn what a predicament!

[SIZE="1"]BTW: I and the Muslims and the Mormons think you are wrong. They have books, and I have no book but I just think you are wrong.[/SIZE]

[quote="CDJ"]Fact: We are here.[/quote] [COLOR="Magenta"][B] [SIZE="4"]HOLY FUCK WE JUST AGREED ON SOMETHING!![/B][/SIZE][/COLOR] :Anal:

[quote="CDJ"]Fact: We were created, no scientific evidence says otherwise. I challenge anyone to show scientific evidence we came from a gelatinous blob.[/quote]

Uhm?how can you call our creation a fact? Lol?we scientists still have more proof we can show you than you can show us. All you have is a book that might?ve been written by a buch of cheaters. Rather unconvincing mate. C14 carbon dating technique is a proven correct one, and it has helped us find out quite some stuff. Oh, and how do you explain all those other human forms that existed? I mean, damn?tell me what I?m looking at when I?m holding the skull of an Autralophitecus Africanus that lived over 3 million years ago. Hm. Either your logic is flawed, or Adam and Eve must?ve been the ugliest guy and chick to have ever walked the face of the earth.

[SIZE="1"]Oh, and the Muslims, the Mormons and me...well...we still think you are wrong dude.[/SIZE]

[quote="CDJ"]Fact: All cultures look for a supreme being. If man were the pinnacle of existence then explain the religious phenomenon that has existed for as long as man has. We are all looking for the greater good we know is out there. It is by design we feel that way.[/quote]

Or by fear, or simply because we?re a herd species. Any reason will do.

[SIZE="1"]And I almost forgot to tell you that you're seriously mistaken. Even the Hindus now seem to think so.[/SIZE]

[quote="CDJ"]Fact: All forms of religious doctrine except Christianity have been proven false by breaking down the book/people that/who claim to be their guidance. The Bible is the only one that has stood the test of time. It has been proven true time after time after time even in the highest doubt.[/quote]

Lol. This cracks me up. The Muslims say the same about their book, and most other religions too. Hm?now who?s the big fat liar in here? I think the odds that the Qur'an or the Torah or any other book is actually right and the Bible wrong are evenly split.

[quote="CDJ"]Just because most people do not understand the Bible does not make it not understandable. Imagine if your math prof in trig class gave you the book and said I will be back at the end of the year and there will be a test to see if you studied. Good luck and he left. You have 2 choices 1. Pass 2. Fail There is no in-between here. You can not almost pass or almost fail. The choice is yours. At the end of the year there will only be two types of people in the class, those who studied to pass and those who did not. It will be up to each person to decide to study or not. When the teacher comes back and gives the test it will be plain and clear who studied and who did not. The Bible is the same. IF people put as much effort into learning the absolute truth of the Bible as they did to pass college then there would not be so many false doctrines out there.[/quote]

Uh-oh. I think I got a D- on this one.

[SIZE="1"]btw: you're very wrong. Someone else told me that Buddha was the only true prophet. But then again...A Muslim told me Mohamed was the only one.[/SIZE]

[quote="CDJ"]The Bible is the absolute truth of everything, it is proven so through time (the ultimate test)[/quote]

If it is that easy?maybe I should start working on [b][COLOR="Darkorange"]Yao?s Book of Absolute Truths[/COLOR][/b]. Thank you for your inspiration. Can I persuade you to be my first follower? With such rock-strong believer behind me, I can't go wrong as a prophet methinks.

Nothing personal, you?re still a nice guy, but with a bit strange view on things IMO ;) I understand the Bible btw, [I]I just don't believe it[/I]. It's not a choice you know, I just don't believe the book. Can you understand that?

Re: The Devil

^^^ :ROFLMAO:

But seriously, good points Yao and Bsully.

Cowardly, I know you do get a ton of shit from some of the others but I do enjoy these discussions so I hope you can look past the ridicule and continue the dialogue. Discussions like these are how I form my views on God and the universe, though you may not agree with them.

Re: The Devil

[quote=MusicalJourney]^^ fuck me.. look who it is.

Yo my fellow Cleckhuddersfaxian, hows it hanging?[/quote] Not bad thanks, life's busy but good. Congratulations on your little'un you must be a very proud dad!

Re: The Devil

:lol: Nice work Yao.

Re: The Devil

It was a reflex :p

Re: The Devil

Yao, Yao, Yao..... you flatter me.

OK so if you guys think that religion and the Bible are so wrong then instead of you telling me to prove to you that the Bible is real and authentic, you bring me anything about the Bible from anywhere and on any Biblical subject and I will get you an answer as to why the Bible is the authourity over it.

You say prove the Bible is real I say you prove it is not.

Re: The Devil

Actually, you don't have to prove it to me man. I just don't believe it ;)

Was just trying to show you what I was experiencing when I was asking you for your opinion, but on the other hand it just doesn't matter really...

For me the Bible is 'wrong' in the sense that it's just another religious book that doesn't convince me...you can't prove a quote with another quote, and you don't have any empirical data to back it up. For you the bible is the authority over everything, to me it's just not.

One question though: why haven't you answered or referred to, at any given moment, that letter "why can't I own a Canadian?". It may look like a joke, but it's not. I want you to read it, and tell how it is that you say the Bible is your authority over everything, but you still ignore a lot of commands that are in there?

Re: The Devil

Well i can't speak for anyone else but I never said that religion or the Bible were wrong, I just take issue with the idea that the Bible is the [I]only [/I]way or the "ultimate truth" as you put it. The very notion that God would create a world overflowing with such diversity yet demand that all must conform to one mode of worship (let it be Christianity, Islam, Judeaism whatever) is antithetical to everything He/She/It/They stands for.

All the great works of man - the Bible, Koran, Torah, Upanishads, Vedas ect...- are not instruction manuals. They are guides, an "Understanding the Universe and Your Place In It For Dummys". The stories that inhabit their pages are parables, not historical accounts, and are meant to shed light on different aspects of what it means to be human. All those works give their own blueprint on connecting to that incredible power that exists out there as well as with in you. There are many ways up the mountain, but once you get to the top the view is the same.

Each religion was devolped in a unique time by unique cultures with unique ideas. 6th grade history tells you that no culture starts the same, so each take on "God" would, obviously, be different. Through time they have borrowed, adapted, reshaped and altered various images and symbols from earlier religions to offer a new take on the oldest idea. Noah and the Flood, the birth and flight of Moses, the death and resurrection of Jesus - these are all updated versions of stories that existed long before Genesis 1:1 was written.

Its my feeling that those who really understand the meaning of faith do not care whether one is a christian, a jew, a muslim, buddhist, taoist, zoroastrian - because the mode of worship is not important, it is the sincerity and honesty [I]behind [/I]that worship that is the key. If God does work in mysterious ways, than there is none more mysterious than the different forms God has used to show himself to man.

Re: The Devil

[quote=BSully828] All the great works of man - the Bible, Koran, Torah, Upanishads, Vedas ect...- are not instruction manuals. They are guides, an "Understanding the Universe and Your Place In It For Dummys".[/quote] This is a problem though, because if you read some of these books you've mentioned you'll find that this view isn't compatible with any of them. They are distinctive and exclusive. For example, the bible says "All scripture is God breathed" in other words it is from the mouth of God. This verse along with a lot of other scriptures make it clear that the bible is intended to be a lot more than JUST a guide. Whether you believe that or not it up to you, but to lump them all together and just call them "guides to understanding the universe and your place in it" is just plain wrong!

All religions are not the same, and cannot all be right. Something that is inherent in pretty much every major religious belief is that it is believed to be the ONLY way to God. To a Muslim, a Christian must be wrong, to a Christian, a Muslim must be wrong... and so on! They are not compatible with each other - therefore they must be either be right or wrong.