Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=day_for_night]ummm you're a motherfucker for even suggesting that. and as a catholic, you should know that your religion says god doesnt interfere in our lives, he lets us make our own choices...without that, people wouldnt have the freedom to 'chose' him or not. Katrina hitting new orleans was a random act of nature, not god punishing people for being gay, moron.

ps. i find it highly ironic that self-professed religious people, such as yourself, tend to be some of the most hateful, biggoted bastards on the planet. peace and love for everyone (unless they dont follow the bible, then they should be killed by a hurricane, right?)[/quote]

Just to help you understand that what you said about me you were also saying about God as well because it comes from his mouth.

1Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals, (10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully, (9) knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous one, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine, (11) according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

God dos not "make people do things as you are speaking about, but God does still have providence over the earth. Sodom and Gomorrah for example. Destroyed because they were sinful cities.

Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, [U][I][B]and going away after other flesh,[/B][/I][/U] [U]laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire. [/U]

Note the remark "laid down an example before-times". God does what he sees fit to do.

So before we start calling names and pointing fingers of hate we should make sure we fully understand the situation.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=day_for_night]new teastement = god loves you no matter what[/quote]

We love our children no matter what but we still punish them for doing wrong in our eyes.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

^^^ since youve gone to catholic school im sure you understand that the difference is more than just being more compassionate...

Re: Some of my research as I promised

ya btw cowardly, i dont care if i did insult your god, just cause i went to catholic school doesnt mean i bought into it. religion is the opiate of the masses, created by man to control weak minded people (sorry if thats too blunt for ya).

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=cowardly dj]We love our children no matter what but we still punish them for doing wrong in our eyes.[/quote]

and you normally kill your kids for doing wrong?

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=cowardly dj]Once again the point of my post was completely missd. Let me break it down as simple as I can

I have not asked anyone to agree with me. I have put it out there as food for thought.[/quote] Putting it out there as food for thought is fine, but then you preach and bitch at people when they don't agree. That's what pisses people off, and makes you look like the one who has a closed mind.

[quote=cowardly dj]Kinda strange that Katrina devastated NO the week of the gay celebration festivities

Press on people... the truth will be know, but all too late for most.[/quote] And then you go and prove yourself to be a sick, twisted fuck - can't even believe you wrote that. E stuck up for you after the last thread like this you started, but I just think you should be kicked off this board tbh. You've got your views and that's fine, why not just keep them to yourself? Leave the preaching to your local sunday school.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Been posted on another thread, but rather appropriate here: [URL="http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html"][COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html[/COLOR][/URL]

btw...

[quote=cowardly dj]Kinda strange that Katrina devastated NO the week of the gay celebration festivities

Press on people... the truth will be know, but all too late for most.[/quote]

Ban the bigoted, narrow-minded, bilge spouting motherfucker from our forum.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Well Cowardly, seems you kinda overstepped yourself here.

I have a nice one for you: if NO was destroyed for such reason, then I'm extremely curious to what will befall my country...But what will you think nothing happens here? We're AT LEAST 10X as bad as NO here according to your views. I haven't seen any gay people in Amsterdam suddenly get a lighting bolt up their ass with some voice from the heavens shouthing "Fuck this for a change you dirty sodomite!" or something as yet.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

i feel we are at an age where all religions are in a mess, this is the age of the battle of religions before we wake up and realise we have all been brainwashed by our leaders and there is no point fighting about it as it makes matters worse.

Live is forward in motion---> Evil is backward in motion---> (also 'live' spelt backwards is 'evil')

Once you step off this tiny spec of matter and look at the big picture you will see that everything around us is an amazing mind blowing fact.

How we will ever understand it.. well we cant.. we are meer children in the eyes of the creators, on a path like at pre school.

We dont have the knowledge or understanding to even grasp the power of the universe and how we actually got here.

One only has to take certain psychedelic natural substances here on earth and you will be shown the power of the universe and then realise there is just no point it preaching to others what is right or wrong and how we got here. As each individula is on a pre-chosen path and will awake when they are good and ready.

we all have massive gaps between our levels of consciousness. One is by no means above another or have any right to dictate to another what they should believe unless they are open and willing to think from a new perspective. Each of us has a reason to be here.

If you told a 2 year old baby that 10 add 10 makes 20 he would look at you and not care and possible giggle as his world is full of magical moments. So you would wait until he was clever enough to explain to him again and then he may understand and use the information for his own good.

So as much as we all go on and on... if your eyes and mind are open then you see the universe intertwined with each other in awe and amazement.

What if we really are all one, and we are aloud to live every single possible permutation of life imaginable throughout the universe, nothing is right or wrong as its all for the same goal, that being the experience of life, living and understanding from the tree of knowledge.

Every planet goes through the fazes we are going through now, just like fazes in a long term relation ship. Many aspects of that relationship are predictable (or estimated) and what this thread had prooven is that people feel strong about this subject as i do.

When strong feelings emerge conflict is inevitable, we are all brainwashed by others, programmed in certain ways by our experiences.

At the end of the day.. somehow you are carbon/stardust - turned into an amazing piece of living flesh, with many universal organs communicating and working together inside to make one living organism called a 'human'. A human that shares the same make up as every living creation on the planet and possibly the universe.

This planet is not alone, and other being's far more advanced than us are watching over and amused at our playground tacktics. So think about your every move and ask is it for the good or for the bad.. the choice is yours and no one can judge you on that. Both are equally needed to create a balance and the whole univers is in balance moving in one direction and then back.

peace all.. and a great topic sparking some deep thoughts, planting seeds in the minds of [ms].

Phil

i leave you with a prayer that is universal for all mankind taken from this site.

[url]http://www.earthways.co.uk/[/url]

The Universal Prayer Our Mother/Father who art within us Hallowed be our name Our kingdom here We will never fear Earth, heaven and hell are one

Share with us this day Our daily love and forgive our negative thoughts As we forgive those who are negative towards us

Teach us compassion and patience And guide us into abundant love For ours is the kingdom The power and the wisdom Forever and Ever WE ARE ONE

AMEN OM MANI PADME HUM ONE LOVE.

By Sal Trussler

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=Yao]Well Cowardly, seems you kinda overstepped yourself here.

I have a nice one for you: if NO was destroyed for such reason, then I'm extremely curious to what will befall my country...But what will you think nothing happens here? We're AT LEAST 10X as bad as NO here according to your views. I haven't seen any gay people in Amsterdam suddenly get a lighting bolt up their ass with some voice from the heavens shouthing "Fuck this for a change you dirty sodomite!" or something as yet.[/quote]

Please, please, please take this comment as being [I]extremely[/I] tongue in cheek, but isn't the Netherlands mostly under sea level and protected by a system of damns???

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Yea i know hehhe...but would a pissed off god not have the power to destroy those dams created by us mere mortals? Anyway, was just joking a bit on that one...I thought that was pretty obvious ;)

I think it is extremely arrogant though to tell the people from NO that they got punished for their 'sins' and then try to back it up by posting about Sodom and Gomorra. Really really cheap, and incredibly painful for those involved, [I]especially[/I] given the fact that a large part of the NO inhabitants were for sure deeply religious people as well. Try to defend such a remark to them, and they might just start questioning your faith.

A Christian flatmate of mine just told me that the most important given is to love everyone, and God above all. She was pretty much shocked to learn a Christian person actually said something like Cowardly did. That says it all to me....

Re: Some of my research as I promised

^^^ What he said.

I repeat - ban Cowardly. If he wants to post food for thought so that the rest of us can either support or argue with him then fine, but the latest comment from him has no more place on this forum than, say, racial intolerance or child porn would.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

I hate to admit it as it were ..... being God fearing - irrespective of what color he is or what book brings him to life or what mass of people has moved you to become a believer of a certain religion - that Katrina comment striking during Gay Week is THE MOST dumbest thing I've read in my life and using God to disguise your hatred towards a group of people is NO DIFFERENT than what Bin Laden is doing. Only Bin Laden put his plans into actions while you expressed your views on a message board...

CDJ, what you wrote about Katrina was not even toilet bowl worthy because flushing it would mean you're giving it a second thought..... sorry mate, you did fuck yourself in the ass with that one.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

I do oppose a ban however guys: some people also strongly disagreed with Miketpoto's funny as fuck JFC pic...he wasn't banned for that either. It's a thin line we're walking here, I want to see if CDJ has something to say in his defense.

One difference though: Mike's intention was not to hurt anyone, but this exclamation cannot not be interpreted otherwise IMO.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

CDJ, I too am shocked by your Katrina remark. Whether you are banned or stay is irrelevant at this point, you've lost my respect and I no longer have any interest in what you have to say if that is reflectant upon who you are.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=NastyD]Been posted on another thread, but rather appropriate here: [URL="http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html"][COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html[/COLOR][/URL] [/quote]

exactly what I wanted to post... :lol: Read well, cdj, maybe you can answer these questions... :CrackUp:

Re: Some of my research as I promised

I did not say that is what happened in NO. I am not even suggesting that I think it is what happened. I do not know. I am only suggesting possibilities. It is well within Gods ability to do that. If you think I am a bad person because I suggest multiple possibilities for things happening around us then so be it.

It is well within God's providence to do that. It has been done numerous times throught history.

Do a google search and put in the words cup of iniquity and maybe you will see some of the times it was done. All throught the Bible God has given man a chance to repent and He has said to some of his prophets "their cup of iniquity is not yet full" and then when He felt it was full He did what He thought was needed.

Just because it may be hard to swallow that God does punish unrighteousness does not mean that He does not do so. It also does not mean that it should not be talked about because it may go against the grain.

I can not prove it and am not so arrogant to think that I know for sure he did that. As I stated it is only something to think about as a possibility.

So it seems controversial to some but others may sit and think hmmmmmmmmmmm. Controversy has spawned great change and is a part of life. I do not avoid it simply for the fact that it may hurt someones feelings or go against what they believe.

If I lose respect because I suggest something controversial even though I did not state it is what I believe, then so be it. You call me closed minded for suggesting possibilities. Some of you should try the shoe on. You may find it fits.

FYI that suggestion came from someone talking on FOX news during Katrina. I am just echoing it.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Why is americas tornado alley slap bang in the middle of americas most god fearing states? Why does the former pope, hand picked by gods highest ranking representatives of his , get struck down with parkinsons ? Why did the crusades carried out on his wishes not destroy all those who failed to believe ?

And why have " Manchester United " gods own football team only won two european cups .

God acts in mysterious ways or more than likely He dosn't act at all

People should be allowed to say as they please and if they lose the respect of others doing so then that's the price they pay.

And CDJ if others think you are a fool ,it's best not to open your mouth and remove all doubt

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[QUOTE=cowardly dj]Kinda strange that Katrina devastated NO the week of the gay celebration festivities [/QUOTE]

dude, that is just vicious. I can't believe you would even imply such a thing.

And don't give us that shit about, "oh, I'm just throwing out possibilities, just throwing out food for thought." It's bigotry, plain and simple. What makes it worse, though, is that it is bigotry in the name of God. You should be ashamed to align yourself with God.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Actually you didn't post the Katrina comment to raise a question, you used it as a personal attack against someone who was questioning your beliefs, a subject you brought up in the first place. Not cool.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=Kobe]Actually you didn't post the Katrina comment to raise a question, you used it as a personal attack against someone who was questioning your beliefs, a subject you brought up in the first place. Not cool.[/quote]

ummmmm, who did I attack with that

Re: Some of my research as I promised

:roll:

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I am actually thinking I should give up now. There's no arguing or discussing with a brick.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[B][COLOR=white]I assume that most have heard of Rosa Parks and of her death recently.[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=white]For those who may not know she was the lady back in segregation days that sat in a white persons seat on a public bus and refused to move and she was taken to jail.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]Lets pretend that ms was alive back then and she was a member. It need not be said that there were and still are two opposite views on segregation. There are those who deeply believe in segregation as deeply as those who oppose it.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]So if Rosa was to come on ms back then and post something like "I think all people are the same. It does not matter what color you are. I should not have been arrested for trying to be equal. I do not care what anyone says., I think anyone who agrees with segregation is wrong. God will punish those who do not believe."[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]I am certain that she would have been attacked very viciously for that. Does that make her wrong because people do not agree with her, or does that simply mean that there are different views on a subject. Think about what would have been said about a white person who would have agreed with her[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]Is there any doubt that Rosa believed deeply in her cause? Is there any doubt that those who were pro-segregation believed just as deeply?[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]So who was right, and why? Is it right to not segregate just because some think it should not be? Should it be OK to segregate just because some agree with it?[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]We all agree with things and disagree with things based on our experiences and interactions and by spending time thinking about a situation.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]Talking about God is more controversial than talking about race. People who have responded in this thread have come to this thread with preconceived notions about God and religion. None of you know me aside from what you have read in my posts. [/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]I have not asked anyone to believe what I am saying. I have only made posts and put some of my thoughts and some things I have heard or read. If you go back and read the threads and posts you will not see me asking anyone to believe what I am saying. You will not see me calling people names for things they post. You will not see me saying that people are closed minded, stupid, or any other thing derogative to anyone. Yet in every thread I have started I have been belittled on all sides. I do not care about that, as it is only words coming from people who have no idea who I am. It just makes for a point.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]The point is this, when you read something, you do not know the emotions of the person typing it. Emotions are not available in type. You only know the emotions that you brought to your computer when you sat down.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]Most if not all of you have come to these threads I have started with preconceived notions about God and religion in general. I am aware of that and I do not take it personal, as I know you guys are attacking God and not me. It is not the first time as nearly every time I have a conversation, about religion, be it in person or online, it is the same. [/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]I have posted my thoughts and things I have learned over the years to share them with you so you can decide for yourselves what to believe. I do not impose anything on anyone as it is not the way of God. It is your choice.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]If you think I posted the NO comment as a hate comment lets not forget you do not know how I feel about that. You read black and white and added your emotion on the subject to it, not mine.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]I do not hate anyone and do not attack anyone beliefs. If you can not handle a comment on a subject then check your emotions at the topic page and try to be less subjective and more objective.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]As I said in an earlier post, I was echoing something I heard on TV about NO. If you think it was an attack on mike because it is the next post after his then you are assuming, and assuming wrong. I do not attack people like that as it is disgraceful and sinful. Perhaps I should have started it in a new thread to eliminate any association to this thread as it was a different thought all together than this but I did not see the need to start a new thread as it is at least on the same subject, just a different direction of this thread.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR=white]To say I am the same as Bin Laden, or a sick twisted ____, or a moron because I posted something outside your way of thinking is the epitome of the very thing you are accusing me of.... closed-mindedness.[/COLOR][/B]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Rosa Parks fought for her rights saying she was equal . Fair point You incinuated gay ppl should die for they are less than you I support you on freedom of speach CDJ but don't confuse right from wrong

Re: Some of my research as I promised

There could be a long version of my response, a really long version, but I think 4 words will convey the point just as well as it doesnt matter how much logic or sense you use with this guy... This might not be my most eloquent post, but it comes from the bottom of my faggotty little heart...

                                          [COLOR="Red"]CDJ is a Pussy![/COLOR]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

just to go back to your original post, your counting does not add up at all anyway. you assumed all the events were independent which clearly is not the case... such understanding of probability and statistics wouldn't bring you far in science :lol:

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[QUOTE=cowardly dj]some inapplicable analogy to Rosa Parks [/QUOTE]

There's a big difference here, CDJ. Her views were progressive. Yours are regressive. Comparing yourself to Rosa Parks demonstrates how detached from reality you are.

[QUOTE=cowardly dj] I have not asked anyone to believe what I am saying. I have only made posts and put some of my thoughts and some things I have heard or read. [/QUOTE]

That's a complete cop-out. I'll begrudgingly concede it to be a fair point re your religious beliefs (although I think you do far more preaching, judging, and persuassion than you seem willing to admit), but when you add onto that, "Oh by the way, New Orleans got what what it deserved because it was sanctioning homosexual behavior," it is just beyond the pale.

[QUOTE=cowardly dj] As I said in an earlier post, I was echoing something I heard on TV about NO. If you think it was an attack on mike because it is the next post after his then you are assuming, and assuming wrong. I do not attack people like that as it is disgraceful and sinful. Perhaps I should have started it in a new thread to eliminate any association to this thread as it was a different thought all together than this but I did not see the need to start a new thread as it is at least on the same subject, just a different direction of this thread. [/QUOTE]

... and might I add, the whole, "I'm only repeating what someone on Fox News said" or "That wasn't directed at anyone," is revisionist history to the point of being laughable.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=ubiqe]just to go back to your original post, your counting does not add up at all anyway. you assumed all the events were independent which clearly is not the case... such understanding of probability and statistics wouldn't bring you far in science :lol:[/quote]

enlighten me then. If I need correcting then by all means do so. I am always looking for more knowledge.

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[quote=bart_smastard]Rosa Parks fought for her rights saying she was equal . Fair point You incinuated gay ppl should die for they are less than you I support you on freedom of speach CDJ but don't confuse right from wrong[/quote]

i did not insunuate gay people should die and i certainly have not incinuated ever in my life that gay people are less than me, in fact I do not think anyone is less than the other. I think we are all guided in different directions due to culture, upbringing, TV, conversatoins etc. etc. etc.

I did however say God could have had a hand in what happened to NO

and as far as confusing right from wrong you need to explain what you are using as a guide for what is right and wrong. Who says your right is my wrong and my right is yours. because as demonstrated in this forum everyones guide is not the same and that is why there is so much confusion in the world

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[QUOTE][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#bbbbbb]Right kind of galaxy............................................ ..1 in 100 Being in the right place in the galaxy.......................1 in 150 Having the right kind of star as a sun......................1 in 1000 Being the right distance from the star (sun).............1 in 10 Having the proper planetary mass..........................1 in 10 Having the proper planetary spin............................1 in 10 Having the proper planetary tilt...............................1 in 10 Having comet sweeping planets..............................1 in 40 Not being near a black hole....................................1 in 250 Having a large solitary moon...................................1 in 10 Possessing a magnetic field capable of shielding........1 in 10 Now do the math and we come up with..................1 in 150,000,000,000,000,000[/COLOR][/FONT] [/QUOTE]

How can you assume that the mass of earth, it's spin, position in the galaxy, magnetic field do not depend on each other? Or rather are not effects of the same forces? There are different algorithms for calculating probabilities of coocurrence interdependent and independed events. And the difference is huge, as with independent events the probability falls with geometric speed, with dependent it might not fall AT ALL. For example, by your way of counting having one blue eye will be FAR more probable than having both eyes blue... If we assume 1 in 10 people have blue eyes it will be 1/10 compared to 1/100. Which clearly is not the case...

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=cowardly dj]i did not insunuate gay people should die and i certainly have not incinuated ever in my life that gay people are less than me I did however say God could have had a hand in what happened to NO

and as far as confusing right from wrong you need to explain what you are using as a guide for what is right and wrong.[/quote]

I have mentioned this earlier a few times you claim to be or are an intelligent person but somehow you either fail to understand what you say , or was incapable of interpreting what you think . Or once you make a statement and realise the reaction it creates you back track giving the impression you havn't realy thought about your wording at all. You are the one constantly telling us about ure reading and analising abilities ( bad spelling it's late i'm lil worse for wear) . Do yourself a favour and put them into practice

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=ubiqe]How can you assume that the mass of earth, it's spin, position in the galaxy, magnetic field do not depend on each other? Or rather are not effects of the same forces? There are different algorithms for calculating probabilities of coocurrence interdependent and independed events. And the difference is huge, as with independent events the probability falls with geometric speed, with dependent it might not fall AT ALL. For example, by your way of counting having one blue eye will be FAR more probable than having both eyes blue... If we assume 1 in 10 people have blue eyes it will be 1/10 compared to 1/100. Which clearly is not the case...[/quote]

In order to sustain life on earth all these factors must be present at the same time. Closely looking at our other planets reveals that lacking one can cause that planet to be inhospitable. Take Pluto for example. It is too far away from the sun to sustain life for many reasons.

So the calculations are correct because all are needed at the same time to make earth hospitable.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[quote=bart_smastard]I. Or once you make a statement and realise the reaction it creates you back track giving the impression you havn't realy thought about your wording at all.[/quote]

No backtracking here.

You have confused bactracking with explaining more in depth.

Bactracking in the context in which you mean it would be taking the comment and saying something like "That is not what I said, I said this"

Explaining more in depth would be like this "OK you misunderstood that here try it like this"

Big difference.

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[QUOTE=cowardly dj]In order to sustain life on earth all these factors must be present at the same time. Closely looking at our other planets reveals that lacking one can cause that planet to be inhospitable. Take Pluto for example. It is too far away from the sun to sustain life for many reasons.

So the calculations are correct because all are needed at the same time to make earth hospitable.[/QUOTE]

No, it's not that easy. It could be the case that the spin and tilt that make life here possible are a function of the earth's mass. It could be that the earth's mass and the fact that it only has one moon are related.

I'm talking out of my ass here and am not professing to have any specialized knowledge about whether or not these things [B]are[/B] interrelated, but the fact is that you can't automatically assume that they are all completely independent, either...

Re: Some of my research as I promised

The Power Of Christ Compels You!

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[QUOTE]Kinda strange that Katrina devastated NO the week of the gay celebration festivities

Press on people... the truth will be know, but all too late for most.[/QUOTE]

Dude, no matter what you say can defend the pure bluntness of this statement, especially with the bloody 'truth' part again attached. You're not fooling me, you meant this the way it is written, plain and simple.

The biggest dissapointment to me is your unwillingness or even inability to simply express that little but o-so-important word: s o r r y

All you gave were some lame excuses, defending what you said, but you did nothing whatsoever that shows me that you actually realise how badly you have hurt some people. Not just here, but you fucking seriously even kicked a lot of your fellow believers viciously in the nuts with that statement, like i said before: there were a LOT of very religious people in that city, who believed in the same God you believe in mate.

It is your truth not mine.

This makes me wonder: [I]will you be able to give your children the freedom of choice when it comes to religion, the same choice you had in the past?[/I] Now that would be showing some character IMO. But everything I've seen so far leads me to think that you cannot, and will not.

I think the best thing to do is just agree to disagree now, as much as I like to discuss theological topics or simply worldviews in general. My goal has not been to turn you to my side, but to at least get you to think for yourself again. I did not and will not succeed in that, and if living by the rules of a book makes you happy, then so be it. Just don't ever fucking use it to condemn me again, wether it is meant personally or not. If that is what I have to do to earn my place in heaven, I'm pretty convinced it is the worst place I could end up after my death. I'll take my nihilistic view on afterlife over that prospect anytime.

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^^^^^ Hey Yao, I know english isnt your first language and all, but does that mean that you need to show off and use big words and put things "eloquently" to try and confuse some of the more.... "retarded" members of the board?

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are you feeling retarded?

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Usually yes, but in this instance, no... I won't be taking the short bus home tonight