id'e like ure opinions on this . is the fact that sets are so available on the net and with us all listening to music more because of mp3 players altering the music dj's are playing ? . dj's used to stick just to their own genre and were more concerned with the mood . we all like a bit of a singalong and do tend to fastforward to "that" vocal track . so are they throwing more catchy things into radio sets and varying genres throughout a set to get more ppl interested in them and is that filtering into the way they play at clubs . i could of worded this better i know but the first draft was an essay

you might be on to something here. i know as a dj myself, i hear so much friggin music that i tend to get bored with the stuff i try to play. finding those "moving" tracks is becoming harder each day. maybe i need a pioneer EFX 1000 r2d2 Processor to be more creative, but the more sets i listen to the more i am bored. i'm talking about sets like radio 1 stuff, or kiss 100 stuff, mostly the big jocks.

elaboration to come soon....

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

I totally get what you guys are talking about. And the fact is...there is less and less great dance tracks out there everyday. More up and coming dj's just put out tracks that are basically just elaborations on loop ideas. And it's boring. And so many prog producers today are trying to be electro, but they are doing it all wrong. They shoudl stick to banging out the good prog we know them for. The only good prog producer who is doing good stuff with electro is Nick Muir these days. That guy is kicking some ass.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

^^^^^^^ I have to agree with all of you. I'm due to play out again (I haven't in ages) and I'm having a hard time finding tracks that sound fresh, and or are any good no matterwhat genre.

I disagree with the fast-forwarding to "that" vocal track, but what I have been saying for quite some time is that we as fans of livesets, etc grow very agitated when we hear the same song spun by the same DJ in a few sets. "C'mon, where's the variety?" and comments like that are quite frequent when describing sets from the likes of any number of DJs. What we all need to keep in mind is that with livesets the artist is aiming at the people in the club that particular night, and since we're all human and fans of the same DJ we're bound to be moved by the same track(s). Therefore, we're going to hear those same tracks regurgitated from the same DJ(s). It's not Sasha's fault that I have 18 sets from him this year and in vitually every one he plays 'Behind the Wheel'.

I don't think that iPods are the reason for that, but the advent of file-sharing, liveset hosting sites, etc.

[quote=skahound] It's not Sasha's fault that I have 18 sets from him this year and in vitually every one he plays 'Behind the Wheel'. [/quote]

He played it every single time he was at Avalon too. :)

I also disagree about "that" vocal track, because I can't stand vocals.

[quote=hypoluxxa][quote=skahound] It's not Sasha's fault that I have 18 sets from him this year and in vitually every one he plays 'Behind the Wheel'. [/quote]

He played it every single time he was at Avalon too. :)[/quote]

I disagree. I think it [i]is[/i] his fault. Why does a guy like Sasha, an absolute trend-setter, with an extraordinary cult-like following and the power to educate with good music, play a remix of Depeche Mode...15 times?

I remember talking to Lee Burridge a couple of months ago and asking him about the source of his material, tracks being sent, promos, etc. and his answer was surprisingly fresh:

• I never stopped hunting and shopping for records. I go to record shops all the time. That's were I find the good stuff.

Some contrast, no?

Listen to his 24/7. Listen to his live sets. Lots of gems there, lots of flip sides that many DJs don't even bother listening to. That's the attitude for a proffesional DJ who restlessly comes out with new and fresh music. Constantly trying to find new labels, blending the classic with the new, and the hard with the subtle. Rarely compromising his sound with a shit record (or at least trying not to) and pushing the envelope further and further away from mediocrity.

Sasha used to be like this, but he isn't anymore.

wf

^ nicely put

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

THAT must be why fundacion was boring.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote=hypoluxxa]^^^^^^^ I have to agree with all of you. I'm due to play out again (I haven't in ages) and [u]I'm having a hard time finding tracks that sound fresh, and or are any good no matterwhat genre[/u].[/quote]

I know what you mean, but also understand a lot of people that will see you dont hear these tracks as much as you. Shit when I play out I bring out tracks from 2000, 2001 because, well especially in Tampa, these people most likely havent heard it in ages, if at all. That also shows you are a very knowledgeable dj, and not just out buying everythng brand new, just came out. hell, anyone can go to juno, and beat port and buy the newest stuff.. but pulling a gem from 5 or 6 years back and ropping it.. THATS style!

[quote=wowflutter] It's not Rarely compromising his sound with a shit record (or at least trying not to) and pushing the envelope further and further away from mediocrity. [/quote]

right on man :D

indeed, dance music is becoming more and more watered down, but what are you going to do? i say just do your thing, support the artists and such that you really dig and be prepared to sift through a ton of music to find those hidden gems out there.

as for ipods, i think owning one has allowed me to listed to and digest way more dj sets and the like...

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote=unome]pulling a gem from 5 or 6 years back and ropping it.. THATS style![/quote] Spot fucking on!

[quote=wowflutter]Sasha used to be like this, but he isn't anymore.[/quote]

now he has minions searching tracks and cutting up samples for him

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[color=red]i do not think so.[/color] there is a time and place for everything. pretty pathetic if you listen to the same shit over and over. a hot set is a hot set, do not get me wrong. besides, you would be missing out on a lot. sometimes i just grab "s[b]h[/b]uff" that is tech house or electro. i try to find what is the best around. you would be surprised what you hear and perhaps find. sure tech, electro, h o u s e, etc are not my cup of tea. prog will always be my number one whore, but i do also respect could music and good artits.

point. listen to other shit numbnuts. your number one cure. md_asdf.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

Lee burridge is one of the few djs out there that keeps it new and fresh with all his sets. I really liked habershams recent kiss100 as well. What's lacking in today's prog is mostly groove and energy. . I get the feeling that a lot of trance boffins just slowed their tracks down to 130 and waved a prog flag about when prog became big.

I suppose time changes a lot of things but I miss the days of howells nubreed and nocturnal frequencies. Some of that music had a lot more vibe than todays run of the mill prog / electro stuff.

I dont think djs have that much concern with the ipod, its just a new discman to most of them.

Ps, if you dont like electro or house, listen to some john tejada or late lee burridge. They'll help you like it.

I knew it was only a matter of time before this thread became a 'Where is Prog' or 'Prog is Dead' thread.

[img]http://www.mercurynation.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif[/img]

[quote=skahound]I knew it was only a matter of time before this thread became a 'Where is Prog' or 'Prog is Dead' thread.

[img]http://www.mercurynation.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif[/img][/quote]

Yeah, here we go...

But I kind of agree with the thread starter...we?re spoiled nowadays, and it?s like we don?t "value" music enough.

I mean, ok, we could go down that "prog is dead" route again, but isn?t it also a fact that everyone and his dog can easily become a DJ, start a website, host DJ set?s that makes songs feel "vulgar"? Because there?s only so much material to work with, good or bad, and everyone has easy access to it.

So, obviously, quality is diluted.

Anyway, speaking of Sasha, this thread also reminds that I?ve been hearing a whole bunch of his sets from the past few months and they all sound different to the dark angry monster he played here in Lisbon last May, so maybe it?s also true that sometimes DJ?s could try a bit harder...

[quote=skahound]I disagree with the fast-forwarding to "that" vocal track, but what I have been saying for quite some time is that we as fans of livesets, etc grow very agitated when we hear the same song spun by the same DJ in a few sets. "C'mon, where's the variety?" and comments like that are quite frequent when describing sets from the likes of any number of DJs. What we all need to keep in mind is that with livesets the artist is aiming at the people in the club that particular night, and since we're all human and fans of the same DJ we're bound to be moved by the same track(s). Therefore, we're going to hear those same tracks regurgitated from the same DJ(s). It's not Sasha's fault that I have 18 sets from him this year and in vitually every one he plays 'Behind the Wheel'.

I don't think that iPods are the reason for that, but the advent of file-sharing, liveset hosting sites, etc.[/quote]

Ska, I think your on to something. There definetly is lack of quality tracks these days. As being a bedroom dj. I really have a hard trying to find fresh tracks to even record a set or play out. I find myself lately playing my older tracks in asets instead of new unreleased stuff. Right now dance music is so accessible to everyone that people are just rushing to put out tracks instead trying to put great quality tracks. Right now the genre actually putting some great stuff is tech-house and some underground dnb. But as for house and prog it is really stangent right now. Someone needs to stop putting out the same boring loop-based tracks over and over again. Even the big hitter have to be getting sick of this as well. Well I am sure this some misspelling but it is early and I don't feel like rereading this.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

i think it's the digital download world that is continuing the evolution of the industry. The difference from 2001/02/03 is that the dj's completly switched mediums. sasha digweed deep dish fancuilli behrouz etc etc haven't played a record in ages. it effects the distrubution process as its nearly imposible to hype a track up like it was. labels (digital and traditional) take ages to release tracks. currently yoshitoshi is well over a year. yoshi puts out some excellent records, but when you heard them in an early 2004 liveset. a september release in 2005 waters down the interest and anticipation a bit. i dont think producers make as much selling tracks to labels anymore as with the emergence of cds the labels can't sell the number of copies they could in the past. and a digital download costs what $1.50? the room for a proper margin is considerably slimmer. It is what it is, i am not in favor of the cd revolution, but it's here and theres nothing to be done about it.

i agree with a previous post about trance producers slowing down there tracks to around 130 and calling it prog. one i started seeing some prog records i liked on AVB comps or Oakenfold comps, i knew prog had lost it's edge. prog has completly changed since i started listening and it's been for the worst. this direction prog is taking has left me utterly disinterested. progs time of innovation and elitism is over. the music is not evolving. i know everyone hates digweeds new electro-phase, but think about it, the man who started it all decides to move on to something different. to me, that says he's lost faith in an entire group of people whos music evolved from bedrock - heaven scent in some small form or another. music goes through cycles, its true for all genres. house and it's many forms have taken over again.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote=3d_1200]prog records i liked on AVB comps or Oakenfold comps[/quote] Don't forget Tiesto, he's been using [b]A LOT[/b] of traditionally prog artists in his sets of late.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

has he really?

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote=sheryar]Ps, if you dont like electro or house, listen to some john tejada or late lee burridge. They'll help you like it.[/quote]

good call, i'd also like to add trentemoller and clive henry to that list as well.

[quote=Jibgolly]finding those "moving" tracks is becoming harder each day. but the more sets i listen to the more i am bored. i'm talking about sets like radio 1 stuff, or kiss 100 stuff, mostly the big jocks.

elaboration to come soon....[/quote]

wow. the exact same thing has been hapening to me to. I though i was losing it...Seems like alot of what I am hearing lately is boring.....whats going on?

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[img]http://www.dibec.com/crazy/download_penis.jpg[/img]

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

i don't want this to resort into a prog is dead thread . i don't think prog or any genre of edm music will die because music is getting cheaper and cheaper to produce at home and the tools to create edm are getting better and better . and i totaly agree with unone [quote]but pulling a gem from 5 or 6 years back and ropping it.. THATS style! [/quote] and with the growing popularity of albelton live maybe on radio sets they can mix things up and b experimental on there , and save some tracks for the clubs and stick to what they got famous for

Yeah. Here are a few for instance:

[b]Tiesto - In the Mix at Sputnik Intensivstation 02-29-2005[/b] [color=red]01. Way Out West - Killa[/color] 02. Leama & Moor - Fact of The Matter [color=red]03. Gabriel & Dresden - Arcadia[/color] [color=red]04. Quest - The Shepherd[/color] [color=red]05. Nathan Fake - The Sky Was Pink (James Holden Remix)[/color] 06. Blank & Jones - Perfect Silence (E-Craig?s 212 Dub) 07. Ti?sto - A Tear In The Open (Leama & Moor Remix) 08. Varian - Endless Desire (Mark Otten?s Energetic Mix) 09. Smith & Selway - Untitled [White Label] 10. Reflekt - Need To Feel Loved (Seb Fontaine & Jay P's Type Mix) 11. Dave Gahan - Dirty Sticky Floors (Junkie XL Dub) 12. Lolo - Why 13. Ridgewalkers ft. El - Find (Andy Moor Remix) 14. Whiteroom ? Someday (Vocal Mix) 15. Fictivision vs. Leon Bolier - Unknown (Fictivision Mix) 16. Sander van Doorn - Dark Roast 17. Ti?sto - Untitled 18. Fred Baker vs. Nyram - Confirmation 19. Primer - Everlast 20. DJ Ernesto - Stop 9.5 (Phynn's Salvation Mix) 21. Riley & Durrant - Feels Like Home (Instrumental Mix)

[b]Tiesto-Live_in_Club_Palace_Siofok-15-05-2005[/b] 01 Tiesto - Magikal Circus 02 Solar Stone - Like A Waterfall (ISOS Edit) [color=red]03 Wighnomy Brothers - Wurz & Blosse[/color] [color=red]04 Tonedepth & Soultan - Moments[/color] [color=red]05 Ahmet Ertenu - Why[/color] [color=red]06 Deep Dish - Say Hello[/color] 07 Coca & Villa - La Noche 08 Perasma - Swing 2 Harmony (Matthew Dekay Remix) [color=red]09 Tilt - Twelve (Dousk Remix)[/color] 10 ID 11 Luminary - My World (Andy Moor Remix) [color=red]12 Steve May - Blend Forty 3 (Luke Chabel & Steve May Remix)[/color] 13 Gabriel & Dresden - Arcadia (ISOS Edit) 14 ID 15 BT - The Force Of Gravity (DJ Tiesto Remix - ISOS Edit) 16 Paul Oakenfold - Southern Sun (DJ Tiesto Remix) 17 Split Second - After Midnight 18 Tiesto - UR (Junkie XL's Air Guitar Mix) 19 Estuera vs. Re:Locate - Palma Solane 20 Estuera - Tales From The South 21 Odysee - Evolution 22 Electric Pulse - White Noise 23 Mojado - El Matador 24 Matthew Dekay vs. Proluctors - Bad 25 Allure - The Loves We Lost 26 Blank & Jones - Perfect Silence (E-Craig's 212 Mix) 27 Hammer & Bennett - Language (Santiago Nino Dub Tech Remix) 28 Tiesto - Traffic (DJ Montana's 12" Edit) 29 Tiesto - Adagio For Strings (DJ Danjo & Rob Styles Remix) 30 Push - Universal Nation (DJ Montana Edit)

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote="unome"][quote=unome]^^^^^^^ I Shit when I play out I bring out tracks from 2000, 2001 because, well especially in Tampa, these people most likely havent heard it in ages, if at all. That also shows you are a very knowledgeable dj, and not just out buying everythng brand new, just came out. hell, anyone can go to juno, and beat port and buy the newest stuff.. but pulling a gem from 5 or 6 years back and ropping it.. THATS style![/quote]

YOur totaly right about that....

i heard someone playing some of those older jems at the island party in fla. one was off an old seaman comp america i think...i am bad with track names though.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

wow, those tiesto t/l's help prove my point. but it's just another reason to flame trance for being an inferior genre. it seemed like a lot of trance djs (especially in detroit) were almost embarassed to call themselves trance djs, so they would convince themselves they were prog djs. so you would have a bunch of trance djs playing to some mindless crowds and the dj's would sit there and call 140bpm euphoric vocal trance, progressive house. WTF. the producer elevation is very much guilty of that. recent 'progressive house' doesn't even carry house elements anymore. i understand progression very well, but i do not acknowledge progression as a form of music regressing back to the style it tried hard to break away from in the first place.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

The "old track" stuff...that?s something that?s constantly being discussed in dance music boards...there?s this obsession with the "that?s so six months ago" syndrome.

And all this stuff we?re talking about in this thread makes that syndrome even worse...the syndrome is going into a "that?s so 3 months ago" phase now!

I think this in part is what drives DJ?s to search for different styles...that coupled with the fact that any 15-year old can make music in his bedroom leads to these changes in the music we hear and the way it?s played . We can discuss if it?s good or bad for the quality of the music itself, but I for one am sure that something great will eventually emerge from this. The sheer numbers will mean that MORE music will come out, bigger ammounts of crap will ammount, but more creative and quality stuff wil surface too

But this can?t be done with an attitude of shame for the past, that some DJ?s seem to exhibit.

I?ve been warping a few tracks in Ableton Live for the past few days, and here?s some old/not recent stuff I wanna throw in there :

Jark Prongo - Moving Through Your System Way Out West - The Fall Alex Dolby - Psiko Garden (Sasha?s Tretched Limo Mix) Ryukyu Underground - Seragaki (Quivver Remix) Evenflow - Indecisive PQM - You Are Sleeping Rivera & Trattner - We Become One Skud - Taste Of Flesh

and others...

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

WE HATE BLAND ... WE HATE HEARING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER dj's are paid for a few hours work what most of us earn in a month and they get to travel the globe living the life we would love . ipods and other mp3 players are allowing us to listen to music more and more . it's a good thing and it's a bad thing cos we expect new and we expect quality . it's turning us into spoiled listeners .but dj's must addapt and try to make all sets interesting .

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

having high musical standards will only improve the final product imo.

it's not like dj's just started playing the same tracks repeatedly. before every live set was taped and put on slsk, dj's travelled around and played a very similar set all over the country. but it was fresh because people hadn't listened to the set they played the week before.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote]having high musical standards will only improve the final product imo.

it's not like dj's just started playing the same tracks repeatedly. before every live set was taped and put on slsk, dj's travelled around and played a very similar set all over the country. but it was fresh because people hadn't listened to the set they played the week before. [/quote]

this is my point but more radio sets and published sets are available than ever before all of which they are paid good money for so they have to raise their games . it is half technologies fault i agree but the other half of blame has to lay at the feet of the dj's . many bedroom dj's can play this weeks releases with impecible smoothness but they ain't on the same money . i should of imagined we have all had to explain to the uneducated how dj's don't simply get paid for putting someone elses music onto a deck and that it takes talent do what they do . i have drifted a lil bit from my original thread but not much . but the tools are there now for dj's to show thier full capabilities and although i wouldn't want them experimenting on my big night out too much ( i'm 31 and don't get out that much anymore) on radio sets and studio mixes they should try earn their buxs and leave the club sets for clubs

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

everyone listens for a different reason, but personally i like the club sound, and find it apropirate for any situation ;-) i think all of these "home listening" comps don't help much, because while it may sell a few extra copies, it doesn't bring new people out to the club. or if it does, they expect this home listening style and get bombarded by club bombs. which can be confusing for as you put it, the 'uneducated'. to me, part of my love for the music ties in with the experience of going out on a good club night and doing exactly what edm was designed to do- make you dance.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote="chuckc"][quote=unome][quote=unome]^^^^^^^ I Shit when I play out I bring out tracks from 2000, 2001 because, well especially in Tampa, these people most likely havent heard it in ages, if at all. That also shows you are a very knowledgeable dj, and not just out buying everythng brand new, just came out. hell, anyone can go to juno, and beat port and buy the newest stuff.. but pulling a gem from 5 or 6 years back and ropping it.. THATS style![/quote]

YOur totaly right about that....

i heard someone playing some of those older jems at the island party in fla. one was off an old seaman comp america i think...i am bad with track names though.[/quote]

Russell played a starecase remix of "under the water" :D

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote=Kinetic][u][b]The "old track" stuff...that?s something that?s constantly being discussed in dance music boards...there?s this obsession with the "that?s so six months ago" syndrome.

And all this stuff we?re talking about in this thread makes that syndrome even worse...the syndrome is going into a "that?s so 3 months ago" phase now![/b][/u] I think this in part is what drives DJ?s to search for different styles...that coupled with the fact that any 15-year old can make music in his bedroom leads to these changes in the music we hear and the way it?s played . We can discuss if it?s good or bad for the quality of the music itself, but I for one am sure that something great will eventually emerge from this. The sheer numbers will mean that MORE music will come out, bigger ammounts of crap will ammount, but more creative and quality stuff wil surface too

But this can?t be done with an attitude of shame for the past, that some DJ?s seem to exhibit.

I?ve been warping a few tracks in Ableton Live for the past few days, and here?s some old/not recent stuff I wanna throw in there :

Jark Prongo - Moving Through Your System Way Out West - The Fall Alex Dolby - Psiko Garden (Sasha?s Tretched Limo Mix) Ryukyu Underground - Seragaki (Quivver Remix) Evenflow - Indecisive PQM - You Are Sleeping Rivera & Trattner - We Become One Skud - Taste Of Flesh

and others...[/quote]

that has been a pet peeve of mine.. people going on about a track being "old" after it's six months old. I mean I understand certain tracks get hammered when they come out, Affrodiziac comes to mind, great track, but by the time it was actually released it was some what worn out.. BUT, in a few months drop that, and people will think.. Oh YEAH.. great choon. Again a lot of non dj's that dont frequent message boards or go to clubs religioulsy most likely have never even heard it anyway. If a record was good when it came out, it doesnt cease being good, just gets over played, so store for the right time and drop when they least expect it. IMO of course.

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

[quote]everyone listens for a different reason, but personally i like the club sound, and find it apropirate for any situation ;-) i think all of these "home listening" comps don't help much, because while it may sell a few extra copies, it doesn't bring new people out to the club. or if it does, they expect this home listening style and get bombarded by club bombs. which can be confusing for as you put it, the 'uneducated'. to me, part of my love for the music ties in with the experience of going out on a good club night and doing exactly what edm was designed to do- make you dance. [/quote]

i love tracks that trigger a memory and some tracks i adore that iv'e neva heard in a club . iv'e bought tracks sets and vinyls . and spent many many many an hour downloading a 100's times more but we are listening to the same stuff too often i don't crave another genre i have shit loads of diff styles on comp but the constant radio and published sets arn't realy getting me going it's either the same tracks and identical remixes or blandness . this is what i'm trying to emphersize . don't get me wrong i don't realy enjoy old school sets cos u heard each track a 1000 times but dj's these days see themselves as producers and remixers ableton allows u to do this live on sets . giving the them ability to add a lil of the old with a new set whilst keeping it in the modern style ( and lets face it dj's if u exlude the traveling and and time in record shops and that they realy only do two to three two hour sets a week ) so maybe they could fuck around with tracks on laptops on the plane to create original stuff for radio sets . leaving what we expect of them in the clubs .. the tools are there to create something new everytime they play and if they incapable maybe it's time for younger blood with fresher ideas to step to the front . dj's are signing up to radio shows and producing sets for sale for money. to earn twice the money u have to do twice the work . not just do the same thing in a different order each week

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

although i still blame mp3 players for allowing us to get spoiled so much we don't appreciate what were listening to.. trust me it hurts so much to hate my beloved creative 40gig zen xtra .. but i am beggining to realise the evil it is doing.. damn next thing u know i'll start hating broadband and my comp and crave the days of going in a record shop and everything being new.

just as another sub thread does anyone still go into a record shop and say heard it the other night the beat goes dang dang der darrr then baseline kicks in and goes ect.ec.t or do we all have scraps of paper with names of atrist /track name / remix on them

Re: ipods fucking up dj's ?

i agree to an extent.

but i think far more blame should be put on those tracks that people are skipping to. the hit tracks.

the thing i used to love about the great dj sets are that you would hear some builds using tracks that on their own, kinda blow, but in the context of the mix are amazing. anymore though, it seems like all the tracks are trying to be the next hit record.

sometimes, i want my ears to be assualted with acoustic unpleasantries to make the awesome records stand out even more!

Think you are all taking this way too seriously - a tune is a tune no matter how many times you hear it.I think the problem is over-exposure - I listened to every digweed show for about 3 years until it got to the point of over-saturation - I didnt listen for months, when I listened again it was quality.

DJ's dont care about how old a track is when they are in a club - if it fits the mix or the crowd wil like it, it will get played simple as that.

I remember seaman's cape town comp getting an absolute slagging before it came out (when the tracklisting was released)People were moaning about how old the tracks were, particularly on cd2.But did it affect the end product?No - that cd is one of my favourite of all time.Dos anyone really care now?No - they dont remember that the tracks were dated when they came out.

It's all about dancing, having a good time and enjoying yourself!