[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
20 Kids aged 5 - 10 killed in a CT school
[url="http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/"]Children and adults gunned down in Connecticut school massacre This Just In - CNN.com Blogs[/url]
I am gutted reading this. fuckin a.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
I cannot wrap my brain around this. There are no words.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
No words for this
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
Jesus fucking christ. 20 children. That's mind boggling. Dying's not enough for the shooter. And he was going for his mum wtf?!
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE]"Earlier today a tragedy of unspeakable terms played itself out in this community," Malloy said, adding that "you can never be prepared for this kind of incident.[/QUOTE]
So I come from a less than democratic country with no guns, and to me that's simply a ridiculous statement.
Of course you can prepare for this kind of incident, don't fucking sell guns.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
RIP... that's awful.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=feather;1072933]So I come from a less than democratic country with no guns, and to me that's simply a ridiculous statement.
Of course you can prepare for this kind of incident, don't fucking sell guns.[/QUOTE]
Agree. I think this happens here b/c guns are EVERYWHERE and easy to get, and the mindset in the usa is to blame someone else as the first thing, like how we are lawsuit happy, so when you are a depressed whiteboy instead of blowing your own fucking brains out you need to go shoot up some other random people because it is "their fault" that you are a douchebag loser who can't get laid.
This is never going to get better though since there are like 300 million guns here and won't be taken away.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
After 15-20 episodes of this kind you'd think there would be TALK about not selling assault weapons to fucked-up people.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
Again? What the fuck is going on? this is fucking disturbing. What is the problem with the Americans?
20 childrens, oh god.
Every six or seven month. we have to read this shit.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=sbando;1072943]After 15-20 episodes of this kind you'd think there would be TALK about not selling assault weapons to fucked-up people.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, some people in power feel that the second amendment is absolute.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
So so sad. Hard to think of a country that is more backward
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=feather;1072933]
Of course you can prepare for this kind of incident, don't fucking sell guns.[/QUOTE]
Is that difficult to understand? Nothing good will happen when guns are soooo easy to get .. There are loads of troubled minds out there, keep GUNS away from them for fuck sakes! I just dont get it..
so sad.. RIP
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
Tough call about the 2nd Amendment. I think the USA needs guns but I def. think they should make it a little tougher to get them.
Tragic. The next Tesla could have just died today. We will never know.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE]A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.[/QUOTE]
[url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910"]BBC News - China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children[/url]
Of course people don't own guns in China ...
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
that's the accurate description of the essence of America's political correctness and democracy. love blacks, admire jewish wisdom, let gays raise children and then kill 20 little kids with machine guns.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
start selling guns to children
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
that was a bit of a cuntish thing to say...
I have just gone and seen the article.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
No, it was good black humor. After the Aurora killing somebody actually said something to that effect.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=foreks;1072991]that's the accurate description of the essence of America's political correctness and democracy. love blacks, admire jewish wisdom, let gays raise children and then kill 20 little kids with machine guns.[/QUOTE]
A yes them blacks, jews and gays!! Luckily none of these murderers were white, christian or were raised by straight parents.... oh wait......
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
I think you misinterpreted Foreks' post a little bit, my pal :).
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
Did I? If I did my bad. Back on topic I think this is a hard subject specially for americans since some of them cling so hard on the second amendment. I for one see absolutely no point in owning a weapon. Like my old man used to say "locks and guns only cause problems to the owner" but I can see how people see it as their right to own one. I´m not against banning weapons, If someone absolutely needs to have a gun they should be obligated to go to a psychologist to check that they would not be threat to their selves or other people.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
I'm angry, upset, saddened and all around shocked. Couldn't begin to imagine what the kids and parents are going through. I hope something changes because of this. It's interesting to read the comments from those of you outside the US, since a lot of us Americans live in a bubble. God I hope something changes.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
I probably have a simplistic view of these things. I don't believe in the right to bear arms nor adhering to something adopted in 1791 according to Wiki.
[QUOTE]In no particular order, early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:[25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32]
deterring tyrannical government; repelling invasion; suppressing insurrection; facilitating a natural right of self-defense; participating in law enforcement; enabling the people to organize a militia system. [/QUOTE]
How the fuck did that ^ become killing 20 children?
If guns were banned and fucktards didn't have access to them, does that not mean civilians have less need to resort to guns for self defence? Doesn't having guns around create environments that lead to escalation of force, if not already escalated by virtue of the guns' existence?
I saw the video of Obama giving some fluffy speech and crying. I sincerely hope he does something about this, there're enough people affected by this without the power to affect, a president should take action.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=floridaorange;1073022]I'm angry, upset, saddened and all around shocked. Couldn't begin to imagine what the kids and parents are going through. I hope something changes because of this. It's interesting to read the comments from those of you outside the US, since a lot of us Americans live in a bubble. God I hope something changes.[/QUOTE] each and every year 27,000 people are killed with guns in America while a few hundreds is the death toll for whole Europe. more or less you have been living your Middle Ages and still waiting for the Enligtement.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=feather;1073033]
If guns were banned and fucktards didn't have access to them, does that not mean civilians have less need to resort to guns for self defence? Doesn't having guns around create environments that lead to escalation of force, if not already escalated by virtue of the guns' existence?[/QUOTE]
There's still a section of the public that thinks that they are constantly on the cusp of being under a tyrannical government - just look at the postings of some of our own board members for evidence of this and imagine that mentality magnified. That constant siege mentality has a role in fueling gun sales.
Also, the prime argument for the NRA to increase gun sales and drive membership over the last few years has been that "the government is coming for your guns!", despite that Obama has left gun rights pretty much untouched and has done nothing in the form of gun control laws. As a matter of fact, gun laws have actually relaxed under Obama's first four years, not tightened.
[quote]I saw the video of Obama giving some fluffy speech and crying. I sincerely hope he does something about this, there're enough people affected by this without the power to affect, a president should take action.[/quote]
As do I. However, the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in the United States and is not going to take kindly to any action that contradicts their agenda. It also doesn't help that federal laws can be trumped by state laws with the power hierarchy in the U.S.
I do think, as shitty as this sounds, that Obama was being a shrewd politician not to touch the gun control issue during the election, as now he has his second term and a lot more freedom to hopefully curtail the laws that allow access to military grade weapons and equipment like high capacity ammunition magazines (I'm hoping that this is the very least he can do - he can and should do a lot more). He's got a lot of ground to make up for since there's been quite a few of these high profile shootings under his watch (Colorado, Gabrielle Gifford in Arizona). That doesn't make it his fault, but he has an opportunity that I hope he seizes and hopefully soon.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
That's something I don't get. The right to bear arms in fear of a tyrannical government.
Let's say the worst happens and citizens feel the need to overthrow the government. I get the impression in this modern society whatever overthrowing will happen politically and on paper, rather than actual fighting. When's the last time a revolution happened in America?
And if there is a pocket of citizen uprising, doesn't the government (and its military) have more than enough force to make the effort of said citizens bearing arms laughable?
Seems like this tyrannical government thing is more of an excuse for people to hold on to their toys.
And as you pointed out, there're enough lobbyists and lobbying going on (that I can't claim any familiarity with) to make the point of bearing arms to overthrow anything, pointless. There're enough deals and handshakes going on behind the scenes—what are the chances that these people who do bear arms, will actually do something with their arms?
When do the unarmed citizens say, enough is enough? When does the president say, enough is enough? What's the point of being president and letting this happen?
At the political level there might well be many considerations and complications that I'm not familiar with, but the real world effect is quite straight forward: 20 kids were alive and laughing and playing, now they're not. The shades of grey are reduced to black and white, dead or alive.
The government, the lobbying and what not, the for and anti-arms camps and their 'talks', collectively allowed this to happen.
Coming from a place like Singapore known for its nanny state, I have to wonder if all these talk about amendments and rights are overrated if children below 10 are dying for no reason. You don't even have political strife and crap like other countries as an excuse. It's not like being caught in the cross fires or in some random bombing and you think, there is a larger context here.
There isn't. Some guy got pissed off with his family and was allowed and given the means to take 20 children with him.
[Edit: Sorry feels like I'm just ranting now.]
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
even if they ban it now, the country is already so full of guns and obtaining one will be as easy as buying a beer for an underage kid, what i fear is that this is turning into a frequent thing here, and its developing into a common practice in America where sick people go and gundown public for whatever personal or mental reason,...and to do it to kids that couldnt even harm you if they wanted is so sad, may their families have patience...now this is the true definition of terrorism
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=feather;1073039]That's something I don't get. The right to bear arms in fear of a tyrannical government.
Let's say the worst happens and citizens feel the need to overthrow the government. I get the impression in this modern society whatever overthrowing will happen politically and on paper, rather than actual fighting. When's the last time a revolution happened in America?
And if there is a pocket of citizen uprising, doesn't the government (and its military) have more than enough force to make the effort of said citizens bearing arms laughable?
Seems like this tyrannical government thing is more of an excuse for people to hold on to their toys.[/QUOTE]
It's a bit of a strawman's argument on the part of the pro-gun lobby - it's always "just in case" and a demand of constant vigilance. It's like saying that I should always wear a parka, even if I live in a tropical climate, in case the ice age comes - at least I will be prepared and not left vulnerable. Some factions take this a lot further and feel that it's their responsibility to be prepared and to form things like private militias, while others seem to fantasize about being the one man Rambo/Chuck Norris that will personally save the U.S. from Tyranny. Then you have the faction that feel that the Tyranny has already arrived and is present with the current government and they have to take advantage of this freedom before (in their eyes) that their government closes the door on their opportunity to "take the country back". It's fucked, to put it mildly.
[quote] And as you pointed out, there're enough lobbyists and lobbying going on (that I can't claim any familiarity with) to make the point of bearing arms to overthrow anything, pointless. There're enough deals and handshakes going on behind the scenes—what are the chances that these people who do bear arms, will actually do something with their arms?[/quote]
See this is the thing - lobbying originally was supposed to be more of an advisory role - consultation for expertise on matters that the government had no knowledge on when it came to an industry that required specific expertise. Somewhere along the way things got perverted into being a business more about companies and industries peddling influence and advancing their own interests instead of consultation and trying to help the government understand the impact a decision would have to the general public. I feel that originally the intentions were good when lobbying stated, but there wasn't any regulation in the practices, which has resulted into (what I see it as being) something that approaches bribery, but is a couple of steps away from being blatant.
[quote]When do the unarmed citizens say, enough is enough? When does the president say, enough is enough? What's the point of being president and letting this happen?[/quote]
Dude, the gun control lobby can't hold a candle to the revenues generated by the NRA - the NRA has backing of every gun manufacturer, regular citizens as well as even members of the government themselves (which in the latter case strikes me as a huge conflict of interest, but also causes a problem with personal freedoms of the individual). The gun control lobby doesn't have anywhere near the resources - they're a lobby that is trying to protect their own back yard, don't have much in the way of industry backing them and are outfunded by international companies as well as companies that originate out of the U.S. Also, they're advocating under the pretense of personal responsibility which is a considerably less sexy sell compared to the freedom and sense of excess available when it comes to the gun lobby.
Part of the problem, the way I see it, is there isn't a separation of these interests - the lines are so blurred that it's nearly impossible right now to ensure that specific free market interests don't creep into the political decisions that are being made for the country, putting the interests of the citizens second in the name of business interest of whatever industry is involved. But how you separate and ensure that is another story entirely, and not an easy answer to formulate.
[quote] At the political level there might well be many considerations and complications that I'm not familiar with, but the real world effect is quite straight forward: 20 kids were alive and laughing and playing, now they're not. The shades of grey are reduced to black and white, dead or alive.
The government, the lobbying and what not, the for and anti-arms camps and their 'talks', collectively allowed this to happen.
Coming from a place like Singapore known for its nanny state, I have to wonder if all these talk about amendments and rights are overrated if children below 10 are dying for no reason. You don't even have political strife and crap like other countries as an excuse. It's not like being caught in the cross fires or in some random bombing and you think, there is a larger context here.
There isn't. Some guy got pissed off with his family and was allowed and given the means to take 20 children with him.
[Edit: Sorry feels like I'm just ranting now.][/quote]
S'all good mang, I'm frustrated and saddened at how big the picture is as to how fucked up this all is too. It's not a simple matter of just banning or limiting sales of weapons, there's a fundamental change that needs to be done to the system itself to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again and to ensure that the steps taken aren't just token gestures. But how does the U.S. do that?
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=trick12;1073040]even if they ban it now, the country is already so full of guns and obtaining one will be as easy as buying a beer for an underage kid, what i fear is that this is turning into a frequent thing here, and its developing into a common practice in America where sick people go and gundown public for whatever personal or mental reason,...and to do it to kids that couldnt even harm you if they wanted is so sad, may their families have patience...now this is the true definition of terrorism[/QUOTE]
Great point about the number of guns already in the hands of the public. Even with the limitation/banning of certain weapons there are already an insane amount of them accessible.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=trick12;1073040]...now this is the true definition of terrorism[/QUOTE]
Indeed. A war on terror of this kind is long overdue
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
This is a very extreme case.. I don't think that stricter gun control would make a difference. A person like that will find a way to do whatever it is they have on their mind. Maybe a better mental health program overall, and a proof of such on point of purchase a firearm.. or something along the lines..but even then I guess it will be easy to "Fake" your psychological evaluation.. or.. go off for some reason after that..
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
Christmas, as usual starts with the sound of another damn funeral march through the town One less for Saint Nicholas there's nothing so vile Or as sad and ridiculous the coffin of a child but idiots still hang on to some stupid scripture from nearly 250 years ago
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=go0gle;1073050]This is a very extreme case.. I don't think that stricter gun control would make a difference. A person like that will find a way to do whatever it is they have on their mind. Maybe a better mental health program overall, and a proof of such on point of purchase a firearm.. or something along the lines..but even then I guess it will be easy to "Fake" your psychological evaluation.. or.. go off for some reason after that..[/QUOTE]
That's the thing - the guns weren't even under the shooter's name. They were under the name of his mother - a teacher at that same school that got shot up.
Why does an elementary teacher need to buy a .223 Bushmaster Assault Rifle and two handguns? Or was she getting it for her son?
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
more info on the shooter:
[URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/15/adam_lanza_motive_shooting_rampage_sandy_hook_elementary_still_unclear.html"]http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ … clear.html[/URL]
[QUOTE][COLOR=#d3d3d3]One source tells the [/COLOR][I][URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/adam-lanza-20-deeply-disturbed-kid-article-1.1220752"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]New York Daily News[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#d3d3d3] [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=#d3d3d3]Lanza “was like one of these real brainiac computer kind of kids.” One thing everyone seems to be able to agree on is that Lanza likely had some sort of mental disability or developmental disorder. One law enforcement official tells the Associated Press Adam Lanza might have suffered from a personality disorder and the [/COLOR][I][URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/adam-lanza-an-enigma-who-is-now-identified-as-a-mass-killer.html?"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]New York Times[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#d3d3d3] [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=#d3d3d3]reports that several who knew Lanza in high school had been told he had Asperger’s syndrome, a high functioning form of autism.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#d3d3d3]It certainly seems he had several tell-tale signs of the disorder, often making those around him nervous because he was painfully shy and seemed to struggle to be social and form connections with people. It was evident Lanza “had a condition,” a neighbor tells the [/COLOR][I][URL="http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/autistic_loner_explosion_l4kSMDgX2pADJyjxx1G4mI"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]New York Post[/COLOR][/URL][/I][COLOR=#d3d3d3]. “You definitely notice it,” he added. Lanza was “kind of, like, needy. I wouldn’t say antisocial, but struggling to be social.” One “family insider” tells the [/COLOR][I][URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/adam-lanza-20-deeply-disturbed-kid-article-1.1220752"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]New York Daily News[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#d3d3d3] [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=#d3d3d3]Lanza “was a deeply disturbed kid,” who “had major issues” and “was subject to outbursts.” A 25-year-old neighbor who sometimes watched Adam Lanza when his mother would go out with friends said he was on medication, reports the [/COLOR][I][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/adam-lanza-is-recalled-as-a-rambunctious-kid-with-family-problems/2012/12/14/795ad0fe-4641-11e2-8e70-e1993528222d_story.html?hpid=z2"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]Washington Post[/COLOR][/URL][/I][COLOR=#d3d3d3].[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#d3d3d3]Several people describe Lanza as withdrawn and awkward but not threatening. “Overall, I would just call him a socially awkward kid, I don’t know, shy and quiet. Didn’t really look you in the eye,” a former neighbor said. “Just kind of a weird kid, maybe.”[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#d3d3d3]Former classmates recall how Lanza dressed more formally than other students, often wearing button-down shirts and a pocket protector, reports [/COLOR][URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/15/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-shooter-idUSBRE8BE02K20121215"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]Reuters[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#d3d3d3]. The tech club that Lanza was a part of was “definitely the nerdiest club in the school,” a classmate said. Members often got together for gaming parties. Many have been quick to describe Lanza as smart and academically driven, an assessment that seems to be supported by the fact that Lanza “made the honor roll with highest honors,” according to the [/COLOR][I][URL="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-1215-shooter-20121215,0,3373353.story"][COLOR=#d3d3d3]Los Angeles Times[/COLOR][/URL][/I][COLOR=#d3d3d3].[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[/COLOR][quote] COLOR=#d3d3d3Nancy Lanza was an avid gun collector who once showed him a "really nice, high-end rifle" that she had purchased, said Dan Holmes, owner of a landscaping business who recently decorated her yard with Christmas garlands and lights. "She said she would often go target shooting with her kids."
[/COLOR] COLOR=#d3d3d3http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/12/15[/COLOR][/quote]
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[quote]This is a very extreme case.. I don't think that stricter gun control would make a difference. A person like that will find a way to do whatever it is they have on their mind. Maybe a better mental health program overall, and a proof of such on point of purchase a firearm.. or something along the lines..but even then I guess it will be easy to "Fake" your psychological evaluation.. or.. go off for some reason after that..[/quote]
Pleaze! Stahp!
Extreme case when this happens twice a year? And, YES, MAYBE free health program so that even these stray dogs can get the best care available.
Most of all, STOP SELLING heaver weaponry in supermarkets.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
I have no words. My heart bleeds for these families, there is nothing worse than a parent having to bury a child.
All this talk about gun control etc is crazy, nothing is ever as it seems. I hope this thread does not turn into a stupid political debate.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
God forbid! Crazy how? It's not about "gun control", it's about making it hard or near impossible for nut cases to have easy access to cannons, gas masks, tanks. Since kids died, instead of teens or 20 yo's, this is worse? And needs prayers, silence and hypocritical speeches like Clinton Bubba @ Columbine? This should have been solved YEARS ago.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
[QUOTE=sbando;1073080]God forbid! Crazy how? It's not about "gun control", it's about making it hard or near impossible for nut cases to have easy access to cannons, gas masks, tanks. Since kids died, instead of teens or 20 yo's, this is worse? And needs prayers, silence and hypocritical speeches like Clinton Bubba @ Columbine? This should have been solved YEARS ago.[/QUOTE]
I'd take this a step further and say that it's not so much to restrict access to nutcases as much as it is having something so readily available and accessible that can end someone's life when someone becomes upset or angered.
Re: I'll live with the TSA, I just don't understand mass-murder
Maybe it's hard to ban guns or police it, but this government has to start somewhere. Start with no guns, and progressively remove the guns in possessions. And anyone caught with guns should be punished.
Will this happen overnight? No. Will it solve the problem overnight? No. But I believe it will over time, over generations.
Take guns out of the equation and the system adjusts itself over time. No access to the weapons. Remove the idea that you can buy a gun. Remove the idea that a bullet is a possible recourse to a grievance. Erase the notion that a bullet could even be a solution.
Sure some other psycho will find another way, but at least that psycho will have one LESS option in his arsenal. Is that not worth it?
This is just so mind boggling.
I don't know the person who said that 'can't prepare' quote, but you know, a fucking pigeon flying over you and shitting on your head is something you can't fucking prepare for.
I've gone from not caring about American politics to thinking this government is a joke, paralyzed by 'democracy'.
Some things should just be common sense and consideration. Some things shouldn't be up for a 'democratic' debate. Some things you don't need an opinion or a specialist or a lobbyist to tell you.
Like sticking your hand in a fire and burning yourself. Like walking in front of a car. Like jumping onto the train tracks. Like running with a pair of scissors or giving a knife to someone blade first. And selling guns.
This is just so completely senseless.