something about not being in the MVP debate?

he KILLED the red sox. that 3 run double the other night put the dagger in their hearts. this guy isnt a power hitter, but you look at him, and in the big spot, he has that same look ortiz does. that look of ''I OWN this moment''

never has been the best hitter, or best feilder at his position, but seriously, who would you rather start a team with other than rivera

Re: DEREK Jeter.

my mvp candidates so far:

jeter ortiz travis hafner justin morneau

Re: DEREK Jeter.

mauer will take the votes over morneau.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

papi deserves it, wont get it tho because the sox won't make the playoffs.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

but papi also has to face the fact he is a liability in the feild and on the bases. also, he isnt shit without manny when ppl make him hit ground balls for singles. but again, i cant argue his heroics. but the counterpoint there is that jeter has more tying and go ahead RBI's and hits. its just that papi does int he 9th all the time. i dunno, i see jeter day in and day out, and i see why he or mariano rivera are the true MVPs. home runs are overrated. we have hit more than anyone in the last 5 years and we havent won. but those 90's teams where paul o neill was the HR leader with 30 were faulous. and that is what we are looking at again, even with giambi, cuz his OBP is off the charts. i dunno, this year reminds more of those teams with sheffeild and matsuii out. even though i know matsuii is one of the riht types. melky cabrera and cano are fitting in amazingly. the role players are working awesome thanks to the coaching staff. this may just be it after all. i thought we werent even a playoff team after sheffeild and matsuii and cano went doiwn and our pitching staff was shite for the first half.----

eeeeehhhh-- thats my rant, being as honest as i can be witout talking shit. the team just gives me that feeling. and i watch more baseball than anyone not working for ESPN.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

the mvp will not go to anyone from the yanks or red sox...or so i hope

just my biased two cents

Re: DEREK Jeter.

[quote=Weizy]the mvp will not go to anyone from the yanks or red sox...or so i hope

[/quote]

+1

Re: DEREK Jeter.

and it is official::you two know dick all about sports.:p

Re: DEREK Jeter.

IMO Jeter is the MVP. Papi is a DH pretty much and I'm not taking anything away from him but it hurt him last year and I think it will this year even more. His numbers in the clutch are incredible and are among some of the greatest of all time. I just think Jeter will edge him out just by the fact that the Yankees are going to the post season and Boston isn't.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

jeters been preety big this year, esspually without matsui and sheffield, i think jeter is way tighter then ortiz, a dh should not win mvp, i doubt he could even catch a ball

Re: DEREK Jeter.

[quote=thesightless]something about not being in the MVP debate?

he KILLED the red sox. that 3 run double the other night put the dagger in their hearts. this guy isnt a power hitter, but you look at him, and in the big spot, he has that same look ortiz does. that look of ''I OWN this moment''

never has been the best hitter, or best feilder at his position, but seriously, who would you rather start a team with other than rivera[/quote]

Jeter > :SuckNGiz: < Sean

Re: DEREK Jeter.

All I Can Get.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

lol, why is don zimmer in the crowd at fenway?^^

Re: DEREK Jeter.

i was really just trying to provoke sightless with the papi talk. the dude is definitely an mvp, but you can't give that award to a fucking DH. (lame ass position imo...pick up a glove papi.)

Re: DEREK Jeter.

^ again, totally agree... batting is only fucking 50% of the game. i don't care how clutch a player is in hitting, batting is STILL only 50% of the game... jeter has 9 errors all year and he's like 2nd in batting... as much as i discredit the yanks from time to time, jeter deserves it. the red sox probably won't even make the post, so fugghetabout papi getting mvp.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

I would give the MVP to a pitcher before giving it to a DH. That said, Santana is deserving. Holy crap that guy is good.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

I would have to agree on Santana But what about Verlander in Detroit? That guy is fucking sick!! Fastball is almost hitting 100 on the radar, nasty stuff and he is a rookie. I know he has a long way to go to be in the same class as Santana but 15-6 as a rookie is pretty damn good!!

Re: DEREK Jeter.

hi guys, i assume you are baseball fans. so if we are going ot look at pitchers. lets cut to the chase. outside of santana. the only one who should be considered, and should already have a MVP award or a Cy YOung award is..... the sinlge most important baseball player since ted williams. yes, he is WAY more important than jeter, ortiz, puljos, AROD, anyone. just look at the numbers, then look at the post season numbers. [URL="http://www.georgiasouthern.edu/~rpacelle/Mariano.JPG"][URL="http://www.georgiasouthern.edu/~rpacelle/Mariano.JPG"][IMG]http://www.georgiasouthern.edu/~rpacelle/Mariano.JPG[/IMG][/URL][/URL]

fucking scary innit? and he is only better in the postseason. he has a 1ERA in the post season and like 1.8 in the regular season.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

Agreed Sean. That dude is insane. One of, if not THE, best closer ever. I still say he can't be considered for those awards for the same reason Ortiz can't- he only pitches for a couple innings and he's done. He is guaranteed lights out when he comes in, but awards like CY and MVP are for full timers. I could actually hear an argument for MVP, but not Cy Young. You have to give the Cy to players who go out there every 5th day and ball for 7 innings or a complete game, and have the season long consistency and stats to warrant the award. Santana easily wins the Cy Young this year.

It is funny tho, in the playoffs, the yanks clearly have the advantage because they only have to play 7 innings of ball, and as long as they're ahead @ the 7th- game over.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

AGREED, but the arguement that followed ortiz is, while not a position player, the closer is now officially a position. like the DH. and also, while is doesnt go 5-7 every 6 days, he goes 1-2 4 days a week. so in essence, he pitches more innings.

and regarding the CY Young. there was a point that has long passed (1996) whereas he has proven his numbers in his position are so beyond the dominance that guys like santana put up. think about in general terms of ballplayer, ignoring position. there hasnt been anyone, including williams, bob gibson, AND sandy koufax, since Babe, that is more dominant than rivera. he is the key reason why the yanks are there every year. he is cool, calm, collected. and he is a champion. a few times. he is the true iceman. thinak about the fact that in 11 years, he only has 3 screwups. 1. luis gonzales, 2. the overthrow to second, 3. game 4 of the collapse. all of them have been in the ALCS or world series.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

so what i am gathering here is that Jeter is going to take the MVP hands down?

i would definitely pin the MVP on a pitcher like Verlander of Santana, but pitchers never take that award. so who is in the running for real?

jeter, papi, hafner, anyone else?

Re: DEREK Jeter.

MAUER look at his average, homers and average with RISP. he is actually killing ortiz and jeter. hitting around 370, and hitting around 400 with RISP. and more clutch than ortiz, its jsut that ortiz tends to get more national tv coverage being on the sox. oh yeah, he misses at least one day a week being a catcher, and is a rookie.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

i hear the Mauer vote, but he isn't our best player. Justin Morneau is our MVP by a long ways. his numbers our almost as gaudy as Papi's.

Morneau is hitting .317 with .371 OBP while also slugging .585

108 rbi's and 31 dongs

but you are right Mauer gets the media attention which is why i have such a jaded outlook on the media in baseball. Mauer has not done a damn thing since the all star break and he probably will get a nice share of votes without being the best player on his team.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

was thinking about Santana winning the mvp, and had to look this up, interesting:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2] Of the 20 times a pitcher won the MVP, his team finished in first 18 times.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]

Lefty Grove, 1931 A's (1st)[/B] 31-4, 2.06, 27 CG, 5 saves[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Carl Hubbell, 1933 Giants (1st)[/B] 23-12, 1.66, 22 CG, 10 SHO[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Dizzy Dean, 1934 Cardinals (1st)[/B] 30-7, 2.66, 7 SHO, 7 saves[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Carl Hubbell, 1936 Giants (1st)[/B] 26-6, 2.31, 25 CG[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Bucky Walters, 1939 Reds (1st)[/B] 27-11, 2.29, 31 CG, hit .325[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Mort Cooper, 1942 Cardinals (1st)[/B] 22-7, 1.78, 10 SHO[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Spud Chandler, 1943 Yankees (1st)[/B] 20-4, 1.64, 20 CG, 5 SHO[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Hal Newhouser, 1944 Tigers (2nd)[/B] 29-9, 2.22, 187 K's, 25 CG[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Hal Newhouser, 1945 Tigers (1st)[/B] 25-9, 1.81, 212 K's, 8 SHO[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Jim Konstanty, 1950 Phillies (1st)[/B] 16-7, 2.66, 22 saves[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Bobby Shantz, 1952 A's (4th)[/B] 24-7, 2.48, 27 CG[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Don Newcombe, 1956 Dodgers (1st)[/B] 27-7, 3.06, 18 CG, had 18 RBI [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Sandy Koufax, 1963 Dodgers (1st)[/B] 25-5, 1.88, 306 K's, 11 SHO[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=Red][SIZE=2][B]Bob Gibson, 1968 Cardinals (1st)[/B] 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 268 K's, 13 SHO[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Denny McLain, 1968 Tigers (1st)[/B] 31-6, 1.96, 28 CG, 280 K's[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Vida Blue, 1971 A's (1st)[/B] 24-8, 1.82, 301 K's, 8 SHO[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Rollie Fingers, 1981 Brewers (1st)[/B] 6-3, 1.04, 28 saves[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Willie Hernandez, 1984 Tigers (1st)[/B] 9-3, 1.92, 32 saves[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Roger Clemens, 1986 Red Sox (1st)[/B] 24-4, 2.48, 238 K's[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][B]Dennis Eckersley, 1992 A's (1st)[/B] 7-1, 1.91, 51 saves

bob gibson's 68 year? :shock:

Eckersly 51 saves? :shock: [/SIZE][/FONT]

Re: DEREK Jeter.

holy shit Bob Gibson was lights out in 68 damn!

i still will never understand how the Eck won an MVP...

for Santana to win it the Twins have to get to playoffs obviously, but don't forget Verlander. if the Tigers are able to roll he may trump all others

Re: DEREK Jeter.

[quote=Weizy]holy shit Bob Gibson was lights out in 68 damn![/quote]

in game one of the 68 series, he struck out 17. :lol:

Re: DEREK Jeter.

[quote=Weizy]i still will never understand how the Eck won an MVP...

[/quote]

your kidding right? i guess 51 saves and a 1.91 era isent good enough for you thats almost 1/3 of the games played in a year. also remeber he was the first "closer" specailizing in 9th inning relief in all of major leauge baseball. so recognize, [U]The[/U] Eck was the one (and LaRusa of course) that paved the road for the mordern day bullpen

but remeber the balloting did take inaccout his raging stash and huge mullet

[URL="http://images.usatoday.com/news/health/spotlight/_photos/2001-10-11-eck.jpg"][IMG]http://images.usatoday.com/news/health/spotlight/_photos/2001-10-11-eck.jpg[/IMG][/URL] i was at the game when the a's retired his number last year, the place went nuts

Re: DEREK Jeter.

[quote]also remeber he was the first "closer" specailizing in 9th inning relief in all of major leauge basebaLL[/quote]

goose gossage, bruce sutter. they did it a decade earlier. and they were SCARY. ecks became a closer as he aged.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

yea but the thing is he was only for the 9th, goose and sutter were middle long relief as well

[quote] Eckersley, it is generally agreed, almost singlehandedly ushered in the modern perception of the closer role in baseball. The role of the closer had been around since the late [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950s"][COLOR=#0000ff]1950s[/COLOR][/URL] and early [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960s"][COLOR=#0000ff]1960s[/COLOR][/URL] ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Pirates"][COLOR=#0000ff]Pittsburgh Pirates[/COLOR][/URL] manager [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Murtaugh"][COLOR=#0000ff]Danny Murtaugh[/COLOR][/URL] is credited with inventing the role by using [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elroy_Face"][COLOR=#0000ff]Elroy Face[/COLOR][/URL] late in close games), and there had always been feared relievers and closers with Hall of Fame-caliber careers, such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollie_Fingers"][COLOR=#0000ff]Rollie Fingers[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Sutter"][COLOR=#0000ff]Bruce Sutter[/COLOR][/URL], and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Gossage"][COLOR=#0000ff]Rich Gossage[/COLOR][/URL]. However, even in the late [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s"][COLOR=#0000ff]1980s[/COLOR][/URL] and early [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s"][COLOR=#0000ff]1990s[/COLOR][/URL], a closer was considered a weaker and less valuable pitcher than a top starter. Complete pitchers started games, and if they were real men, they finished them (or so the mentality went). Relievers were either [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firemen"][COLOR=#0000ff]firemen[/COLOR][/URL] (pitchers who only came into pressure-packed situations, with runners on and few out late in a game, and thus "put out the fire") or pitchers not good enough to start; the vast majority of relievers were considered to be the latter. The A's used Eckersley almost exclusively for the ninth inning, and inserted him regardless of the pressure or game situation. Instead of being a fireman or a mop-up man, Eckersley became a one-inning pitcher. Starters were no longer expected to finish games; there was another pitcher who was coming into the game in the ninth inning, no matter what. Although the idea of a dedicated closer was hardly new ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Smith_%28baseball%29"][COLOR=#0000ff]Lee Smith[/COLOR][/URL] was already closing for the Cubs by the time Eck was converted to the closer role), it was rejected outright by old-school purists; it took [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_La_Russa"][COLOR=#0000ff]Tony La Russa[/COLOR][/URL] and Eckersley to popularize it. Eckersley's incredible short-term dominance of the position was perhaps the most influential aspect of this popularization. He was seen to shut down a game after the eighth innning; he was fresh, cocky, and always hit his spots. His pointed finger at a struck-out batter and his glare became well-known after he and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_Evans"][COLOR=#0000ff]Dwight Evans[/COLOR][/URL] famously battled during the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_American_League_Championship_Series"][COLOR=#0000ff]1988[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_American_League_Championship_Series"][COLOR=#0000ff]1990[/COLOR][/URL] playoffs. After Eckersley, every team wanted a pitcher who would end a game after eight innings, save their starters from overextending themselves, and give their fans something exciting to look to in a late game. Although the value of a closer is still debatable, Eckersley's influence is indisputable; by 2006, the notion of a team without a dedicated closer seemed as ridiculous as a pre-Eckersley team with one. Although the idea of a specialty, one-inning game closer was the suggestion of his Oakland A's manager, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_La_Russa"][COLOR=#0000ff]Tony La Russa[/COLOR][/URL], it was Eckersley who put the 'cool' in the role of the closer.[/quote]

so again, fucking recognize

Re: DEREK Jeter.

nope, gossage did 8th and 9th. never started. never went long. the only year he eclipsed 140 innings was when chicago tried to get him to start. he went 220 innings after they realized he couldnt so they threw him in the pen to play the 5th/spot starter. one year only. [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml"]http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml[/URL]

not to sure about early sutter, my parents hadnt even met yet.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

ya 8th and 9th, not a "closer" like rivera, gagne, fulke, izzy, or street

Re: DEREK Jeter.

Better Than Them In That He Went 2 Innings.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

? i dont get it

Re: DEREK Jeter.

wait are you claiming the goose was a better player then eck, if so your way too one sided about baseball and your pinstripes, goose has been up for the hof and proably will never get it

Re: DEREK Jeter.

GOOSE only played for NY for a few years. and he was better in pittsburgh and chi town. i say he was better for the only reason of he dominated just as good, and went longer than any of them. 24 years closing 2 innings, and staying dominant through the juiced ball era says something.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

[quote=Lrn] if so your way too one sided about baseball and your pinstripes, [/quote] Welcome to the wonderful world of thesightless, where everything has pinstripes.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

PoWer, PrIdE, pINNSTRIPPSSSSSS

Re: DEREK Jeter.

when did i mention the yanks talking about him. he was better on other teams. OK he played here for a little while, but that is hardly what him great.

Re: DEREK Jeter.

power, pride, [img]http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_121347.jpg[/img]deutchbag

Re: DEREK Jeter.

power pride and the ability to shit the bed when under pressure.