[URL]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51840.html[/URL]

[quote]Weiner, who is likely to run for mayor of New York, said that because of the city’s special health care infrastructure, his office was looking into alternatives that might make more sense. Weiner is one of the health care law’s biggest supporters; during the debate leading up to reform, he was one of the last holdouts in Congress for the public option. “The president said, ‘If you have better ideas that can accomplish the same thing, go for it,’” said Weiner. “I’m in the process now of trying to see if we can take [President Barack Obama] up on it in the city of New York, … and I’m taking a look at all of the money we spend in Medicaid and Medicare and maybe New York City can come up with a better plan.”

New York is one of two states that pass on Medicaid expenses to cities and localities, so “the city winds up having an enormous Medicaid expense,” Weiner said.

The congressman was trying to debunk Republican “myths” about the health care law during a speech at the Center for American Progress. He used the waivers as way to describe how flexible the law actually is and how “this notion that the government is shoving the bill down people’s throats” is not true.

“The administration needs to make this argument more forcefully,” he said. “A lot of people who got waivers were … people who are our friends.”[/quote]Damning...can't wait 'til the unconstitutional rug gets pulled out from underneath this hideous law that only applies to Soetoro's friends but not others.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

New York is one of two states that pass on Medicaid expenses to cities and localities, so “the city winds up having an enormous Medicaid expense,” Weiner said.

^yes

watch this: [URL]http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11559[/URL]

And ffs stop calling it "obamacare" healthcare is a ticking time bomb and quite literally so for many people in this country. Obama like many presidents before him is trying to overhaul a dinosaur.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

I'll call it whatever the fuck I want, thanks! If he wants to crown it as the key legislative achievement of his administration, it's only applicable. The Romney fix implemented in MS should provide ample evidence that this method is not a national solution and is not one size fits all or get your ass reamed by the IRS.

And you don't fix it by making it 10 times worse and increasing expenses for medical practitioners and businesses alike by adding another layer of federal bureaucracy. I am so tired of the nanny state answer. "Fix" healthcare by defacing the constitution and siphoning personal liberty even further.

I'll give the video a view time permitting.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

lol @ nanny state and defacing the constutition.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

you're angry about the word obamacare? what about all the times the Iraq war was called Bush's war? lol

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

FACT - Insurance companies in the USA admit to pushing up prices, buying politicians and not paying out claims when they should
FACT - PER PERSON the USA spends more on healthcare than any other nation on the planet
FACT - Obama debated his plans before the election for healthcare FACT - the chance of a child under five of dying in the USA is greater than industrialised nations with universal health coverage FACT - Obama was elected to bring in change
FACT - Obama wants to stop insurance companies from screwing America
FACT - The reforms Obama wants work in the Netherlands and Switzerland

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=floridaorange;940301]FACT - Insurance companies in the USA admit to pushing up prices, buying politicians and not paying out claims when they should
FACT - PER PERSON the USA spends more on healthcare than any other nation on the planet
FACT - Obama debated his plans before the election for healthcare FACT - the chance of a child under five of dying in the USA is greater than industrialised nations with universal health coverage FACT - Obama was elected to bring in change
FACT - Obama wants to stop insurance companies from screwing America
FACT - The reforms Obama wants work in the Netherlands and Switzerland[/QUOTE]

FACT - Any douche can cut and paste from answers.yahoo.com and convince the uninitiated that they know what they're talking about, notwithstanding the truth that such people know fuck-all about the legislation itself.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Now that's some SENSE, sir (but not of the political data mining giant variety :P).

Not to mention, no one says (i.e. paraphrased from Piglosi), "We have to pass it to see what's in it" if it really is nothing but a box of chocolates.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

peace

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

why can't we all just get a LOAN!?

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=i!!ustrious;940634]why can't we all just get a LOAN!?[/QUOTE]

Cash is king right now, banks know the public are still insolvent, no loans are getting done for a while :lol:

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

lol yah no doubt. this asshat family friend of ours has that as his slogan. i just laugh

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=i!!ustrious;940643]lol yah no doubt. this asshat family friend of ours has that as his slogan. i just laugh[/QUOTE]

cash is king? :lol:

kind of a real estate saying

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

It's even more astonishing that you like the bureaucratization of health insurance and somehow think this law actually lowers costs. Oh well, it takes all kinds.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=vinnie97;940741]It's even more astonishing that you like the bureaucratization of health insurance and somehow think this law actually lowers costs. Oh well, it takes all kinds.[/QUOTE]

I think it's a step in the right direction, a big picture perspective really.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

The fact I would be punished by increase of personal taxes for not buying into the government healthcare plan is complete bullshit and most definitely a violation of my constitutional rights. I personally don't want to be [B]forced[/B] to participate in something provided by the government, much less give them control of my health.

All that needs to be done to save the healthcare system is allow companies to sell insurance across state lines. Prices would become competitive, you would see a decrease in costs, more americans could afford it and be covered ;) In addition, this would create those jobs we've been [U]talking about[/U] since late 2008. Insurance companies would grow and prosper while aiding to the growth of the economy.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=vinnie97;940741]It's even more astonishing that you like the bureaucratization of health insurance and somehow think this law actually lowers costs. Oh well, it takes all kinds.[/QUOTE] Certainly does here. :D Yours costs more than twice as much as ours, both as a cost per capita and as a percentage of GDP. Your infant mortality is higher, you life expectancy is lower. I live with a universal healthcare system and it works well. Yours couldn't get much worse :(

I found this, [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care[/url] I'm amazed at how many countries have a universal health care system in varying forms. The US is way behind. Influence of big Pharma perhaps ??

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Oh boy, Wikipedia. ;) Stats themselves can be misrepresented, so I always take them with a grain of salt, especially since there are too many variables at play (do you realize just how bad and systemic illegal immigration is here aka anchor babies? Who do you think should pay for that? Me, as a legal citizen?). And Florida, we fundamentally disagree...your vision of the nanny state frightens me. Regulation, fair enough...not the socialist control that the advocates of this system are trying to achieve.

Finally, Didi, one size doesn't fit all. I only need to point to the Romneycare disaster going down in MA to prove that. Bureaucrats with a socialist bent can do more damage than good. I also find it particularly tiresome that you think you know so much about the American healthcare system, probably based on some biased article(s) you've read with stats that have been twisted to match the author's political ideology.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

appalling

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=vinnie97;940787]Oh boy, Wikipedia. ;) Stats themselves can be misrepresented, so I always take them with a grain of salt, especially since there are too many variables at play (do you realize just how bad and systemic illegal immigration is here aka anchor babies? Who do you think should pay for that? Me, as a legal citizen?). And Florida, we fundamentally disagree...your vision of the nanny state frightens me. Regulation, fair enough...not the socialist control that the advocates of this system are trying to achieve.

Finally, Didi, one size doesn't fit all. I only need to point to the Romneycare disaster going down in MA to prove that. Bureaucrats with a socialist bent can do more damage than good. I also find it particularly tiresome that you think you know so much about the American healthcare system, probably based on some biased article(s) you've read with stats that have been twisted to match the author's political ideology.[/QUOTE] :lol: There, there little boy, nothing to be scared of there :lol:

And you know about ours ???? Which is what I was talking about. There is a good chance I do know more about yours than you do. I do research, you spout endless slogans and denials.

There isn't a one size fits all approach. In fact I doubt there are two the same. You chose not to see the word "varying" What's that saying?? " there are none so blind as those that will not see "

My vision isn't a "vision" , it's a reality of a working health care system that costs us far less, allows more of our babies to live, and lets them live longer.

But why did I assume this could be a reasonable discussion about healthcare.?? What was I thinking :lol: ??? Forgot where I was for a moment. :lol:

I suppose I have to accept that this forum really has no sharing of knowledge any more :( It's become a place for people to shout hate.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=DIDI;940875]:lol: There, there little boy, nothing to be scared of there :lol:

And you know about ours ???? Which is what I was talking about. There is a good chance I do know more about yours than you do. I do research, you spout endless slogans and denials.

There isn't a one size fits all approach. In fact I doubt there are two the same. You chose not to see the word "varying" What's that saying?? " there are none so blind as those that will not see "

My vision isn't a "vision" , it's a reality of a working health care system that costs us far less, allows more of our babies to live, and lets them live longer.

But why did I assume this could be a reasonable discussion about healthcare.?? What was I thinking :lol: ??? Forgot where I was for a moment. :lol:

I suppose I have to accept that this forum really has no sharing of knowledge any more :( It's become a place for people to shout hate.[/QUOTE]

yes, unfortunately

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE=DIDI;940875]:lol: There, there little boy, nothing to be scared of there :lol:

And you know about ours ???? Which is what I was talking about. There is a good chance I do know more about yours than you do. I do research, you spout endless slogans and denials.

There isn't a one size fits all approach. In fact I doubt there are two the same. You chose not to see the word "varying" What's that saying?? " there are none so blind as those that will not see "

My vision isn't a "vision" , it's a reality of a working health care system that costs us far less, allows more of our babies to live, and lets them live longer.

But why did I assume this could be a reasonable discussion about healthcare.?? What was I thinking :lol: ??? Forgot where I was for a moment. :lol:

I suppose I have to accept that this forum really has no sharing of knowledge any more :( It's become a place for people to shout hate.[/QUOTE] I live here, so scurry away with your condescension, "little girl." You were indeed commenting on American healthcare, about how abysmal it apparently is compared to what you have, so please spare me the denials. And welcome to ignore. If you equate disagreement with hate, you're not worth my time.

Same with your condescension, Shpira. The point at which the growing number of entitlements outweighs the edicts in the constitution (i.e. the mandate, aka a direct demand on how one chooses to maintain their health via purchase of a product from a supposedly private company, which has very little to do with the regulation of economic activity) here in the states is the point that all hope is lost (I sure as hell don't want a "progressive constitution," which some are actively championing for today). What has been proposed in this healthcare law is 1) unconstitutional, 2) unsustainable given our current debt loads and 3) disfavored by over half of the population (depending on what poll you rely upon). Its demands will break the backs of private insurance (aside from those who are on costly cadillac plans and Congress, of course, who are not bound by the laws they've passed for the rest of us) and a single-payer system will unfold, with all of the red tape, bureaucracy and inefficiencies inherent in such a system. Waiting lists will be lengthy, the quality of care will suffer. If this doesn't ultimately happen under the system being imposed, may God strike me down.

Didi, you are impossible to converse with on this topic, however, since your system is perfect and apparently anything I mention is a slogan or denial (you completely ignored the fact I mentioned about illegal immigration and the costs associated with anchor babies).

Good riddance.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE]Same with your condescension, Shpira[/QUOTE]

There is a first time for everything.

lol

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

I fixed healthcare a couple posts ago. ;)

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

^And TORT reform. ALL of these were sensible solutions, but no, we have this bankrupting boondoggle that will help crash the dollar oh so much quicker.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[QUOTE]In November 2009, it was reported that Christian Science movement had lobbied for the inclusion of a provision in the proposed legislation for U.S. healthcare reform that would allow for insurance reimbursement of affirmative prayers, including those practiced by Christian Scientists.[31][32] The legislation was sponsored by Sens. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), John Kerry (D-Mass.), and the late Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), the latter two representing the state where the church is headquartered. The House version of the bill ultimately was stripped of this provision, but it was reintroduced in the Senate version in December;[33] furthermore, the Senate version of the bill would prohibit discrimination against "religious and spiritual health care". The news of the provision stirred criticism from both pro- and anti-healthcare reform commentators, including those who may possess religious inclinations,[34] and aroused the greatest criticism from those who feared a breach of the separation of church and state.[citation needed][/QUOTE]

this sounds better lol

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

I've attended these weekend long healthcare for poor families in central florida located where the Orlando Magic play, only to see lines like you wouldn't believe... The entire arena full of healthcare professionals giving care to people with all different levels of healthcare needs. Attend something like that and then talk to me about how healthcare does not need to be overhauled in America. Sure it's great if you have money and a job or no pre-existing conditions. But if you are lower class or working middle class and have any pre-existing conditions you're fucked.

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

There is county care for that. By the same token, one shouldn't saddle self-employed lower class who don't have insurance with new mandates or penalties for not subscribing to some bureaucrat-laden unconstitutional vision of what's best for them. The govt. is about to default (this doesn't disappear because one simply chooses to ignore it and is the reason most international bases need closing with all soldiers returned home)...do tell how they're going to be even able to continue forwarding current Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and welfare payments (all of which need reforming) much less providing healthcare insurance for millions more.

I don't know why some have such great difficulty in differentiating natural rights versus positive rights, nor do they seem to understand how the latter can be siphoned away by a govt. entity because they are created and provided by man and not inalienable. This is ideological and those who oppose rather not fall more deeply into this vision of liberty-stifling socialism/crony capitalism. Yes, this started back during the Great Depression #1 (#2 just around the corner) after the FED restrained the money supply and FDR had to follow up with the New Deal monstrosity. I have seen little evidence that this new bill reduces costs, but I have seen evidence of over 1000 waivers being issued for 2011 and the prospect of compliance raising costs for employers and those who may visit a doctor once a year.

PS. No one said it's perfect as is, but wrecking it further where rationing is almost guaranteed to become the norm for everyone but only the UPPER class is asking for trouble.

PPS. What good is govt.-provided "free" or "affordable" healthcare insurance if you can't afford your next meal due to inflation or massive unemployment?

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Louisiana, about to get punked: [url=http://www.thepelicanpost.org/2011/04/04/commentary-obamacare-will-move-louisianians-away-from-private-insurance-and-inflate-medicaid-rolls/]Medicaid costs set to rise and Louisianians set to lose their private plans[/url]