I hope that I'm not the only one, sick and tired of the death count continuing to spiral out of control in Iraq. Today was the deadlist day yet....months and months after dubyah declared mission accomplished. I feel so helpless over here, not able to do anything. I have a friend over there. He joined the army to clean himself up, and make something of his life. Now, he is stuck in this "invasion" to line the pockets of a few, and take the lives of many....for what! The news is reporting that the election will be so flawed, no results will considered accurate.

Maybe bush should have his backers that created the rigged electronic voting machines to help him steal another collection to put some over there. I'm surprised this isn't the case....so that they can put into power whom they choose.

I hope that I'm not the only one....that feels this way...and feels so angry and upset.

peace, steve

I was fed up before this war even started. Now, everyday I look online and see an article with a headline which reads like today's, "Bloodiest day for US as violence grows; Helicopter crash kills 31 Americans." I have to feel completely and utterly helpless each and everytime I read something like this. And currently, there is no end in sight; Bush stated he has "firmly planted the flag of liberty" with his commitment to spread global democracy". :?

Now I know how my parents felt about Vietnam. It's only going to get worse, boys(and girls, too).

I hope I'm not drafted.

**EDIT(felt like adding this)

It's not our fucking war.

I keep getting more and more pissed about it everyday. Bush should be tried for warcrimes against the UN. And then publicly hanged for what he has done to screw up that country and then bush SR. should be on that pole right after his son for not finishing what he was supposed to do 10 years ago.

i'm just depressed about the impotence of the bush secret services in capturing the terorist leaders in iraq, it will never stop if these terorists wont be captured and it seems it will take some time till it ends

Re: Is anyone else fed up?!

The problem is that you can't capture all the terrorists and suddenly claim victory on the war on terror. Every nation will inevitably have unhappy citizens. Unhappy with internal government. Unhappy with discrimination. Unhappy with foreign intervention, etc. Big guns and covert-ops will never put an end to this. The correction and restaint of terrorism and militant disidence will have to come from societal evolution. This is a slow process, but it will eventually happen. It not the responsbility of foreign nations to intervene and decide these matters. The only form of terrorism that is a significant threat to foreign nations is state sponsored terrorism.

Re: Is anyone else fed up?!

[quote=viceroy].

I hope that I'm not the only one....that feels this way...and feels so angry and upset.

peace, steve[/quote]

I can assure you, that you are not the only one.

peace!!!

[quote=White_Hindu]Now I know how my parents felt about Vietnam. It's only going to get worse, boys(and girls, too).

I hope I'm not drafted.

**EDIT(felt like adding this)

It's not our fucking war.[/quote]

Unfortunately it is our war. During Gulf War I we wanted to kick Saddam's ass. Politics got in the way. The U.N. lost the will to have the coalition continue fighting. No one wanted to spend anymore money. And the U.N. used investigative reports to say that best chance for Middle Eastern and global stability was to leave Saddam alone. Then 9-11 happened and we reevaluated everything we knew about our security and about the intentions of our enemies. The reason we are fighting in Iraq right now is because Pres. Bush was using our diplomats to have the U.N. reexamine old security beliefs. They helped us with afghanistan and other terrorist groups. Then we asked them what we should do to fix the problem in Iraq and the U.N. was like "What problem?". That was the beginning of the end. Iraq was the largest documented security problem on earth; even more so than NK or Iran because Saddam had actually attacked many times before. Whether or not the war should have happened is irrelevant. From the day the U.N. acted like complete asshats the war was going to happen out of ego. I mean honestly.... when you know someone is worried or scared and they need your help to restore normalcy who the hell makes the problem worse by doing nothing. Only the U.N. They didn't cause the war......but they did everything in their power to make tensions worse.

^^^ bingo was his name-o.

Spot on mylexicon...Sometimes I'm being ashamed of being a European, especially one with a prime minister that's a frickin' coward.

[quote=mylexicon] Only the U.N. They didn't cause the war......but they did everything in their power to make tensions worse.[/quote]

follow the money

[quote=mylexicon] Then we asked them what we should do to fix the problem in Iraq and the U.N. was like "What problem?". That was the beginning of the end. Iraq was the largest documented security problem on earth; even more so than NK or Iran [/quote]

I lost braincells reading this...

1. Iraq had no terrorist training camps like Syria, Yemen, or Jordan

2. Iraq had no WMD and the teeny bits of sarin and ricin we found were sold to him by Donald Rumsfield

3. North Korea [b]actually[/b] has Nukes

4. Iraq ie Saddam had no connection to al-queda ( you know the people that flew planes into the big buildings)

[quote=mylexicon] Saddam had actually attacked many times before [/quote]

And we supported him, maybe your party should have listened to the left when they were screaming at Reagan to stop doing buisness with a Tyrant...

[quote=Sinisterbeatz]

And we supported him, maybe your party should have listened to the left when they were screaming at Reagan to stop doing buisness with a Tyrant...[/quote]

come on reagan's the man credited for bring down communism he's the man:RockOn:

[quote=Sinisterbeatz]

1. Iraq had [b]no[/b] terrorist training camps like Syria, Yemen, or Jordan

2. Iraq had [b]no[/b] WMD and the teeny bits of sarin and ricin we found were sold to him by Donald Rumsfield

3. North Korea [b]actually[/b] has Nukes

4. Iraq ie Saddam had [b]no[/b] connection to al-queda ( you know the people that flew planes into the big buildings) [/quote] ^^^^^ We asked the U.N. to help us reevaluate the problems in Iraq, post 9/11, and they were like "What problem?".

Need I say more.

Actually i think i should. B/C clearly you don't understand the situation. Post 9-11 we went through all our old security files trying to figure out if our policies were correct. The U.N. security council was doing the same thing. Finally we got the the "I" section and eventually we pulled out the Iraq ciminal record--which was probably about 5 feet thick. We put it on the table and asked the U.N. what we should do about it------ they looked at us straight faced and said "just put it back, we have sanctions on them......we don't need a reevaluation". Naturally this pissed us off so we opened the file anyway and were reminded of all the fucked up shit that one man was able to do. 1) attacked a neighboring Islamic country for no apparent reason other than to test his military 2) slaughtered religious minorities, tortured political dissentors, and built a ridiculous weapons cache 3) attacked another neighboring Islamic country to steal their oil and increase his personal wealth 4) fired scud missles at Israel because the U.N. drove him out of Kuwait (WTF) 5) genocided the shiites and kurds again 6) dodged weapons inspections 7) let sanctions destroy his own country.

After rereading all of this we asked the U.N. why they didn't take these people as a serious threat. Once again they said "they just pose no threat". So we said, "either you convince us or we're kicking Saddam's ass out. We helped you capture that d-bag Milosevic when he caused you problems. You are either going to fix this problem or we'll fix it ourselves!" For the next few months the U.N. jerked off to homoerotic porn while we prepared for war. New inspections were useless, they didn't give us any new data. Inspectors were still prohibited from viewing certain places and Saddam still did not appear to clear his name. So while the U.N. security council was shredding documents of corruption and spooging all over themselves we were spending billions of dollars and losing hundreds of troops. And the worst thing is they tried to hint to Britain not to follow us because they knew the whole thing was a ruse.

So after our coalition soldiers get killed and untold Iraqis die, we find out post war that nearly everybody in the goddamn security council was making money off of Iraq by selling them weaponry and equipment or by stealing from the oil for food program. And worst of all, was that the people siphoning cash were our allies!!!!!

Which brings us to where we are today. We fought a seemingly unecessary war at enormous expense b/c the U.N. didn't want to tell us they were ripping the world off by stealing money and selling illegal goods to Iraq. So everyone involved is looking for closure. People like me who approve of the war regardless of WMD praise the elections and lament the U.N. corruption. Others try to appreciate the elections even though the lack of WMD stings. Others Americans have lost complete perspective on the whole thing and are still talking about issues that are two years old. Their argument started: "Don't attack, Don't attack" now its "We shouldn't have attacked, We shouldn't have attacked" LOL, what a contribution!!! :lol:

[b]The war has taught us things about ourselves far more important than our propensity towards war or peace: 1) we can't trust our leaders on any scale and 2) all terrorists have to do is sit back and watch us self-destruct. Unless we as a global community admit the mistakes made by the U.N. and the U.S. Federal Government, there won't be much of an infidel for the Islamic fundamentalists to fight.[/b]

[quote=mylexicon][quote=Sinisterbeatz]

1. Iraq had [b]no[/b] terrorist training camps like Syria, Yemen, or Jordan

2. Iraq had [b]no[/b] WMD and the teeny bits of sarin and ricin we found were sold to him by Donald Rumsfield

3. North Korea [b]actually[/b] has Nukes

4. Iraq ie Saddam had [b]no[/b] connection to al-queda ( you know the people that flew planes into the big buildings) [/quote] ^^^^^ We asked the U.N. to help us reevaluate the problems in Iraq, post 9/11, and they were like "What problem?".

Need I say more.

Actually i think i should. B/C clearly you don't understand the situation. Post 9-11 we went through all our old security files trying to figure out if our policies were correct. The U.N. security council was doing the same thing. Finally we got the the "I" section and eventually we pulled out the Iraq ciminal record--which was probably about 5 feet thick. We put it on the table and asked the U.N. what we should do about it------ they looked at us straight faced and said "just put it back, we have sanctions on them......we don't need a reevaluation". Naturally this pissed us off so we opened the file anyway and were reminded of all the fucked up shit that one man was able to do. 1) attacked a neighboring Islamic country for no apparent reason other than to test his military 2) slaughtered religious minorities, tortured political dissentors, and built a ridiculous weapons cache 3) attacked another neighboring Islamic country to steal their oil and increase his personal wealth 4) fired scud missles at Israel because the U.N. drove him out of Kuwait (WTF) 5) genocided the shiites and kurds again 6) dodged weapons inspections 7) let sanctions destroy his own country.[/quote]

Actually, it was mostly France's doing. They were also the ones close to getting Saddam to keep his bad-smelling mouth shut and let the inspections take place. Didn't really matter in the end, after that he would've found another way to irritate the UNSC.

[quote=mylexicon]After rereading all of this we asked the U.N. why they didn't take these people as a serious threat. Once again they said "they just pose no threat". So we said, "either you convince us or we're kicking Saddam's ass out. We helped you capture that d-bag Milosevic when he caused you problems. You are either going to fix this problem or we'll fix it ourselves!" For the next few months the U.N. jerked off to homoerotic porn while we prepared for war. New inspections were useless, they didn't give us any new data. Inspectors were still prohibited from viewing certain places and Saddam still did not appear to clear his name. So while the U.N. security council was shredding documents of corruption and spooging all over themselves we were spending billions of dollars and losing hundreds of troops. And the worst thing is they tried to hint to Britain not to follow us because they knew the whole thing was a ruse.[/quote]

There was too much division the UNSC en the UN. Maybe on which porntape to put in the tapedeck next, maybe because a lot of countries still had economical and political interests in Iraq. You do realise that some countries saw part of their trade income go up in smoke because of this invasion?

Maybe there would've been less of a problem if some arrangements had been made in backdoor politics prior to bringing the issue to the UNSC. Just an idea.

[quote=mylexicon]So after our coalition soldiers get killed and untold Iraqis die, we find out post war that nearly everybody in the goddamn security council was making money off of Iraq by selling them weaponry and equipment or by stealing from the oil for food program. And worst of all, was that the people siphoning cash were our allies!!!!![/quote]

Not nearly everybody. A few high-placed officials, and a few countries of which everybody knew, officially or non-officially. It would be a tiny bit na?ve to say that you only found out afterwards...

Hopefully this will lead to the much needed reforms in the UN. Personally I'm still for Billy Clitoris in office instead of Annan.

[quote=mylexicon]Which brings us to where we are today. We fought a seemingly unecessary war at enormous expense b/c the U.N. didn't want to tell us they were ripping the world off by stealing money and selling illegal goods to Iraq. So everyone involved is looking for closure. People like me who approve of the war regardless of WMD praise the elections and lament the U.N. corruption. Others try to appreciate the elections even though the lack of WMD stings. Others Americans have lost complete perspective on the whole thing and are still talking about issues that are two years old. Their argument started: "Don't attack, Don't attack" now its "We shouldn't have attacked, We shouldn't have attacked" LOL, what a contribution!!! :lol: [/quote]

Most people are still afraid of taking it from the present day situation and look forward, afraid to be labelled as pro-Iraq war.

[quote=mylexicon][b]The war has taught us things about ourselves far more important than our propensity towards war or peace: 1) we can't trust our leaders on any scale and 2) all terrorists have to do is sit back and watch us self-destruct. Unless we as a global community admit the mistakes made by the U.N. and the U.S. Federal Government, there won't be much of an infidel for the Islamic fundamentalists to fight.[/b][/quote]

Maybe a bit too pessimistic, but I agree on this one dude...

[quote=Yao]

[quote=mylexicon]So after our coalition soldiers get killed and untold Iraqis die, we find out post war that nearly everybody in the goddamn security council was making money off of Iraq by selling them weaponry and equipment or by stealing from the oil for food program. And worst of all, was that the people siphoning cash were our allies!!!!![/quote]

Not nearly everybody. A few high-placed officials, and a few countries of which everybody knew, officially or non-officially. It would be a tiny bit na?ve to say that you only found out afterwards...[/quote]

I don't think it is that naive. I'm sure we expected some UN corruption..... it is impossible not to. But I believe that Bush thought we would find damning evidence in Iraq like nuclear materials orders from NK, WMD, or tons of illegal weaponry. But while we were truckin around in the desert looking for it we kept tripping over boxes of documents with random personal oil accounts for European officials. Your right, only 1 country was destroying the oil for food program. I should have said that quite a few in the UNSC were making money off of Iraq by selling them contraband (mainly weaponry and high technology systems)

Ya I agree with that last statement, in fact...those Sarin boxes were sold to Saddam by someone from the Netherlands: "Business is business" was his defense. Hope they hang him.

The thing is...nobody knows how many officials were involved in this scam. That's why I would be cautious in making accusations about this. But that people are guilty, that's for sure. Worst thing is, this might damage the trust in the UNSC enormously...byebye legitimacy!