Justify your opinions, please... Want to know different points of view.

Keep it down boys, don't get mad if other person has a different thought.

he is far from great, but i think he is ok, he did inherit a bit of a recession from all the accounting and market scandals. also, 9/11 didnt help. i don think anything about the war would happen if not for that.

i DO like the no child left behind idea, as well as the original idea of invest S.S. in to the worldwide markets. it would have tied our country to world wide markets. also, i am a CPA/tax attorney, so i tend to sway towards the rightin terms of things like taxes, and finance. also, i realize whats goig on in the world today so i would rather have somone like him in charge of keeping us safe. just at what is happening in boston in the last 3 days. dirty bomb? however, i strongly disagree with his domestic civil rights view. gays should indeed be allowed to marry. no question about it. on the other issue though. i dont care how many pat downs or emails they read, if it keeps me alive, hell, i'll empty my pockets for a cop. its a catch 22 though, i realize that. he seroiusly needs to extend the olive branch to europe. too many idiots have no clue what its like living in america and pigeon hole us b/c they disagree with someone from texas being our elected leader..

lastly, he comes off as a dumb person, i know he isnt. you do not have to be a speach and debate geek to be a good leader. speaking in public is the biggest fear of all you know. i just think he needs to tone down his public attitude and stop trying to defend himself. fuck, i mean look at clinton, he actually had the balls to ask his accusers to define "is".

he is a great president.. but what is the real meaning of "expanding freedom'' there in his inauguration speech.. could that be about North Korea and Iran?? i think so.. :RockOn:

I don't like him at all, im not left wing and i hate that asshole michael moore and his views...i do agree with some of the things he's doin in iraq, trying to 'liberate them' or so he says.....

He's a cheeseball aswell, i think when people (well in europe anyway)see him making his speechs they shiver cringe...

to me he's basically everything u could hate about a steriotypical american...bland ,brash...has no idea whats goin on in the world and is abit stupid..

and before u rip on me ive lived in america east and west coast for 2 summers and i really like americans there fun people......

Also i Don't really see the point of Team America taking on N.Korea... i never really saw them as a threat to the states? i don't see the koreans taking that to well..

in the name of freedom he is killing a lot of people that why i think he?s the worst

^ he's killing lots of people that would fly airplanes into large skyscrapers that kill over 4000 people and he's killing people that decapitate people on live television to make their points. imagine that... not saying i love him as a president, but his reasons for going to war are fucking justified. the taliban and iraqi terrorists are on the same page, imho. they need to be irradicated.

i know it hasnt happened yet. but the whole thing with north korea is REALLY scary. they have the nukes. they admitted it. they are very very much a dangerous regiem. i dont think that they would just start a war, however, i do think if something bad happened(even if not war), they wouldnt hesitate to use a nuclear weapon. so the question remians, "do we go now, wait until they use them, or put a stranglehold of economic sanctions and boycotts on the place. personally i think the third choice is the best, but also the worst b/c starving and locking the country up would do nothing but create worse feelings amoung the younger generations of the country. WHO KNOWS?! everyone has an imperfect solution, but none are right. :roll:

[quote=thesightless] i dont care how many pat downs or emails they read, if it keeps me alive, hell, i'll empty my pockets for a cop. its a catch 22 though, i realize that.[/quote] Where do you draw the line?

[b]Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. [/b]

i like his stance on terrorism, i hate his christian right wing stuff

yeah but in reality they break that ammendment in order to protect your life. seroiusly, just think about the fact that RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, FBI CIA and many other agancies are frantically searching for a few middle eastern and chinese people in and aorund boston to try to prevent a dirty bomb from being exploded. i know its not definete, by why would you not dod everything in your power to prevent it?? fuck it, if i were living in boston, i would do my best to help them out, if only to ensure my children and loved ones can get home alive. go ahead "look in my house." they need to do i the right way though. i.e. explainthe situation requires you to search beyond what is normal b/c someone has some radioactive material in the area and might very well be planning to set off a mini nuke. trust me, sitting in NYC last year with 100 cops and scientists walking around with radiation detectors through the crowd was the second most umcomforatble situation i have been in. in NYC, we now have to have these huge radiation detectors planted beneath the street to keep us safe.

Re: Who thinks Bush is a great american president?

he's a bad cowboy

[quote=thesightless] THIS MOMENT, FBI CIA and many other agancies are frantically searching for a few middle eastern and chinese people in and aorund boston to try to prevent a dirty bomb from being exploded.[/quote] They most likely have probable cause to suspect and track down these would-be terrorists. If my name came up on one of these terrorist's computers I would expect to be searched too (as long as there was reason to believe that I had something to do with the plot and didn't just correspond for some other reason not knowing their intention).

Forgive me for feeling that being stopped by an agent and strip searched or having my home invaded for no other reason than to do some investigative work on a hunch, is wrong.

but put your neighbor in your shoes and imagine if you neighbor set off a dirty bomb in his backyard, and they didnt check him because it was only a hunch. :|

weird right?

[quote=thesightless]but put your neighbor in your shoes and imagine if you neighbor set off a dirty bomb in his backyard, and they didnt check him because it was only a hunch. :|

weird right?[/quote] I agree with your Catch-22 idea. It is tough to do that, but like I said where do we draw the line? Who gave the hunch?

I had a situation occur to me that impeded on my rights in which I was given no information as to why I was being searched and humiliated in front of my peers. All of this because a girl said I was dealing drugs. You're probably thinking, ok, 'No big deal' or maybe 'Well, he probably was." I was in the 8th grade at the time! A girl saw someone in the library doing something that resembled selling drugs. When asked who it was she said she didn't know. She then proceeded to pick 3 faces out of the yearbook - one happened to be mine. I was sitting in my English class when 2 school administrators walked in and without saying a word grabbed me by my arm and pulled me out of class. They then told me that we were going to my locker and I was going to pull everything out of it and walk to the library. I didn't know what was going on so I complied. In the library the vice-principal made me empty my lunch box and interrogated me on everything that was in there, including the girl-scout cookies I had brought as a snack. They finally let me go back to class once they realized I didn't have what they were looking for.

Turns out a kid that didn't even resemble me was in the library that morning selling candy. For the rest of the school year I was tormented and labeled a 'drug dealer' by my classmates. In that case a hunch wasn't good enough.

i hear ya, but at least you proven not guilty.

[quote=thesightless]i hear ya, but at least you proven not guilty.[/quote] At my own expense though.

I hate his stance on gays, let them be ffs.

I hate his stance with religion, leave it out ffs.

I like that we're finally taking a stand in the middle east, wether it's the right one or not will be told in time.

I like that he's got balls. For once he has sacked up and been the unpopular president. We don't need a yes man.

He's okay in my book. Not my first choice, but better than any democrat.

[quote=thesightless]yeah but in reality they break that ammendment in order to protect your life. seroiusly, just think about the fact that RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, FBI CIA and many other agancies are frantically searching for a few middle eastern and chinese people in and aorund boston to try to prevent a dirty bomb from being exploded. i know its not definete, by why would you not dod everything in your power to prevent it?? fuck it, if i were living in boston, i would do my best to help them out, if only to ensure my children and loved ones can get home alive. go ahead "look in my house." .[/quote]

This has become the norm for typical americans and their way of dealing with this "constant threat" way of life. It's quite sad how you immediately give up your rights just to insure survival. But the bigger picture that needs addressing is why and how did it get to this point? People sitting on the edge, waiting for the next terror alarm ready to sacrifice their rights at the quickest moment. This notion that "nobody is safe" is being implemented on the masses mostly in part by the media. It's no suprise that if you constantly hear and see news about possible new terror threats you are going to become paranoid and weak which translates to adjusting to having your freedoms stripped away for better protection. Don't you agree its time to get to the bottom of things? Find out what fuels these threats, why some people want to harm the US and what is it they are mad about. Next step is trying to fix this problem, rather than trying to adopt to the new circumstances. Those that bear hate, who resort to violence obviously have some reasoning behind their actions so maybe it's time the governtment re-evaluated how they are going about their agenda. Terrorism is not an expression of rage, it's a political weapon - a reaction to something. Ever wonder why people in Sweden or Italy or Kazakhstan don't have to worry about having their rights trampled over for "national security reasons"? Having cops search their homes for bombs? Could it be because they don't have as many enemies to worry about? The tolerance level of the american public just amazes me but I doubt this will continue like this, because when that comfort is breached enough the public will have its say. The sooner people realize whats going on, the sooner things can start changing... because change of methods is something the US needs quick.

[quote=thesightless]i know it hasnt happened yet. but the whole thing with north korea is REALLY scary. they have the nukes. they admitted it. they are very very much a dangerous regiem. i dont think that they would just start a war, however, i do think if something bad happened(even if not war), they wouldnt hesitate to use a nuclear weapon. so the question remians, "do we go now, wait until they use them, or put a stranglehold of economic sanctions and boycotts on the place. personally i think the third choice is the best, but also the worst b/c starving and locking the country up would do nothing but create worse feelings amoung the younger generations of the country. WHO KNOWS?! everyone has an imperfect solution, but none are right. :roll:[/quote]

I just don't get that political move... Can you see who is fighting against nuclear weapons? Hell yeah, USA! The country who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear bombs... who wrote a page in history for bombing the zone with nukes when the war was arriving to its end.

I saw on CNN last week a conference of congresists in USA... these are words of Condoleezza: "Let's bring the truth to the people that don't have access to the truth". I think that's the biggest problem of American politics, they always think they have the ONLY TRUTH... and starting from that, they want to bring THEIR truth to everyone else. I don't get it, and I can't understand it.

USA stands itself as the mother Theresa of Calcutta, and has a bloody past. From bombing an own ship with american marines inside (most of them died) for having an argument to battle Spain, for conquering Cuba, to knowing Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbour and let it under-defensed, to have an argument to battle Japan. What else can we expect from USA? Twin towers incident could have been another "argument" to enter a war that interests USA's government... a battle for fuel. ---> I know... it's a negative point of view, but it's a possibility too.

Why USA feels that have to free every single country in the world? Historically they've never acted (or at least, not often) just to be happy with their concious... there was always a power or economic topic besides.

Let's see France... their congress doesn't talk about tiranism in other countries, they just let them be. Why can't they see that some people just want to stay as they are? Let's ask ourselves, is it democracy that important that thousands of people have to die for it in hands of others? Is democracy worth a die?

Don't get angry guys, I'm just throwing down another point of view.

[quote=ftc][quote=thesightless]yeah but in reality they break that ammendment in order to protect your life. seroiusly, just think about the fact that RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, FBI CIA and many other agancies are frantically searching for a few middle eastern and chinese people in and aorund boston to try to prevent a dirty bomb from being exploded. i know its not definete, by why would you not dod everything in your power to prevent it?? fuck it, if i were living in boston, i would do my best to help them out, if only to ensure my children and loved ones can get home alive. go ahead "look in my house." .[/quote]

This has become the norm for typical americans and their way of dealing with this "constant threat" way of life. It's quite sad how you immediately give up your rights just to insure survival. But the bigger picture that needs addressing is why and how did it get to this point? People sitting on the edge, waiting for the next terror alarm ready to sacrifice their rights at the quickest moment. This notion that "nobody is safe" is being implemented on the masses mostly in part by the media. It's no suprise that if you constantly hear and see news about possible new terror threats you are going to become paranoid and weak which translates to adjusting to having your freedoms stripped away for better protection. Don't you agree its time to get to the bottom of things? Find out what fuels these threats, why some people want to harm the US and what is it they are mad about. Next step is trying to fix this problem, rather than trying to adopt to the new circumstances. Those that bear hate, who resort to violence obviously have some reasoning behind their actions so maybe it's time the governtment re-evaluated how they are going about their agenda. Terrorism is not an expression of rage, it's a political weapon - a reaction to something. Ever wonder why people in Sweden or Italy or Kazakhstan don't have to worry about having their rights trampled over for "national security reasons"? Having cops search their homes for bombs? Could it be because they don't have as many enemies to worry about? The tolerance level of the american public just amazes me but I doubt this will continue like this, because when that comfort is breached enough the public will have its say. The sooner people realize whats going on, the sooner things can start changing... because change of methods is something the US needs quick.[/quote]

You've said what I couldn't explain with my own words...

Americans are getting media-slaves... they are getting their senses asleep with TV, political moves, etc. You just have to realize, that Bin Laden is not the entire Iraq, and Iraqi people are not Laden's allies. They are people as you and I, they had a terrorist, that's true, but that doesn't make them terrorists too... bombing Iraq ir not a solution, it's unfair. WHERE ARE THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS? You just can't war a country because you suspect they have nukes and then find that there was no nukes, and say it was just a mistake... COME ON! Thousands of people are now dead because false nukes, because a mere suspect. Is it worth it?

[quote=thesightless]yeah but in reality they break that ammendment in order to protect your life. seroiusly, just think about the fact that RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, FBI CIA and many other agancies are frantically searching for a few middle eastern and chinese people in and aorund boston to try to prevent a dirty bomb from being exploded. i know its not definete, by why would you not dod everything in your power to prevent it?? fuck it, if i were living in boston, i would do my best to help them out, if only to ensure my children and loved ones can get home alive. go ahead "look in my house." they need to do i the right way though. i.e. explainthe situation requires you to search beyond what is normal b/c someone has some radioactive material in the area and might very well be planning to set off a mini nuke. trust me, sitting in NYC last year with 100 cops and scientists walking around with radiation detectors through the crowd was the second most umcomforatble situation i have been in. in NYC, we now have to have these huge radiation detectors planted beneath the street to keep us safe.[/quote]

Please tell this to the many people who have been unreasonably searched, without warrants, arrested and detained without being charged, and have had no right to consult with council (what are we at... 3 amendments so far?) then released 2 weeks later after being in a dark cell, with an apology (if that)?

Sightless, I'm sure my job would be gone if I disappeared for 2 weeks without notice. Then my house, car, and everything else that would follow. Probably have some credit issues if I was late on any payments. These "inconviences" are perfectly okay with you? What about the fact that you ignoring the very principals this country is founded upon?

If we live in a police state then the terrorists have successfully taken our freedom away. How can we try to deliver freedom to another country if we ourselves don't have it. Look at how this parallels Saddam's regime- no guarentee(sp?) of privacy, no right to council, no due process.

Also keep in mind that some of these practices are now affecting US businesses. Since under the Patriot Act, rights to privacy have been forfited, data exportation is being limited. Canada, for example, has added legislation which prevents data from being wherehoused in the US, as things like medical records are no longer private.

I do understand the ideaology behind the Patriot Act, but it not only has the potential to be abused, but already has been, blatently. A few weeks ago I saw a story about a guy using a laser to point at a plane. The govt. acknowledged that this was not terrorist related, but arrested him under the Patriot Act. Anyhow I've rambled on for too long. Thoughts?

he's a crazed ultra-right-wing Christian Evangelical fundamentalist who can't master English grammar or syntax... He wishes to purge the lands of Babylon of the heathens [check...well, partly] and recapture the Holy Land for Christianity...he basically thinks he can speed up the coming of the apocalypse by intervening in the Middle East.....which is, again, his business.

And if on those grounds the populace considers him a good president, so be it - such is democracy.

But if anyone is dumb enough to DENY that, or if anyone who supports Bush cannot see that.......I'm very sorry for those people. :roll: Very very sorry indeed

[quote=ftc]People sitting on the edge, waiting for the next terror alarm ready to sacrifice their rights at the quickest moment. This notion that "nobody is safe" is being implemented on the masses mostly in part by the media. It's no suprise that if you constantly hear and see news about possible new terror threats you are going to become paranoid and weak which translates to adjusting to having your freedoms stripped away for better protection.[/quote] I would strongly urge every single one of you to read a book titled "Culture of Fear" by Barry Glassner (a professor of Sociology at USC). It is an impartial, unbiased look at the root of media-enabled fear and provides specific, thought-provoking examples. For instance, one chapter on the media-bred fear of blacks discusses how time and time again the finger is pointed at the lyrics of rap artists following black-on-black crime, yet we never hear about the lyrics of Johnny Cash or Tennessee Ernie Ford, whose violent songs are still played on country music stations, after white-on-white crime.

I implore you to pick up this fascinating read. I guarantee you will hardly put it down before you finish it.

He is the one who is the cause, when WWIII starts. Bush is just a Puppy of his Father.

[quote=Marimba]in the name of freedom he is killing a lot of people that why i think he?s the worst[/quote]

He shouldn't be playing a worldwide police officer! But he's doing it!

First war with Iraq and inocent people suffer! Terrorists - again inocent people are paying! Now even more couse those mountain lost Muslims gone crazy!!! For them is the holly war! U cant explain them that that's no good! So u have to leave 'em alone! But No! Allmighty Bush thinks he'll put an end to this! yea right! :?: :?: :?:

Everything can also be a nice excuse for lot's of things running in background! 8)

He's an asshole! and i don't understand Americans why they vote 4 him!!!!!!

Probably they are too much controled by the media!!!

And if not...... :idea: ..they're assholes too!

Sorry!

"Death is the political instrument of all times" (Savater, 1976, 80)

[quote=JellyButt][quote=Marimba]in the name of freedom he is killing a lot of people that why i think he?s the worst[/quote]

He shouldn't be playing a worldwide police officer! But he's doing it!

First war with Iraq and inocent people suffer! Terrorists - again inocent people are paying! Now even more couse those mountain lost Muslims gone crazy!!! For them is the holly war! U cant explain them that that's no good! So u have to leave 'em alone! But No! Allmighty Bush thinks he'll put an end to this! yea right! :?: :?: :?:

Everything can also be a nice excuse for lot's of things running in background! 8)

He's an asshole! and i don't understand Americans why they vote 4 him!!!!!!

Probably they are too much controled by the media!!!

And if not...... :idea: ..they're assholes too!

Sorry![/quote]

so the terrorists out there we should just leave alone?? Are u spun?? Your statements could be the most brain dead things i have ever heard from a human being.. its people like you that need a smack in the face and wake up to reality.. you know what you had your smack in the face with 9/11 you are just completly retarded..

Come on guys, let's keep it down... We're just throwing some thoughts to the table. That's it, we don't wanna have a senseless quarrel.

Re: Who thinks Bush is a great american president?

Well, I guess most of you know how I feel about Bush c.s.

The US planted the seeds for what is happening now when they fought their war with Russia in Afghanistan and actively started backing Israel up. In the latter case, I'm not judging: the reaction is just there, it's a fact.

Now that terrorism has hit the planet, maybe we (not just the US, Europe too) should be trying to find the causes and fix them, instead of concentrating on the symptoms. Furthermore, they should apply the right measures, instead of levelling whole countries under the guise of 'bringing democracy'. And I must agree with ftc's quote:

[quote=ftc] Those that bear hate, who resort to violence obviously have some reasoning behind their actions so maybe it's time the governtment re-evaluated how they are going about their agenda. Terrorism is not an expression of rage, it's a political weapon - a reaction to something. Ever wonder why people in Sweden or Italy or Kazakhstan don't have to worry about having their rights trampled over for "national security reasons"? Having cops search their homes for bombs? Could it be because they don't have as many enemies to worry about?[/quote]

Enemies are made in politics, they don't 'just exist'. If you shit in someone else's garden, he'll get angry with you.

Last: I don't approve of everything the Islam stands for, their lifestyle is different from mine and they should leave me alone. But on my part, I won't go round telling them what good and what not, and what they should change in my point of view to make things better. I don't believe in this 'crusade' for democracy, if Bush really pushes it, it will only lead to more war and casualties.

I believe every action is in fact meant to improve the economical and political position from the US: there's no such thing as a free meal or selfless actions in international politics.

I wanna give credits to cosmo, for bringing that post 'The pentagons new map' on this board: seldom have I read a piece that explains what and why the US is doing all this so good. It is also one of the most frightening pieces I've ever read: it contains all the arguments to continue to go to war in the future.

[url]http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/viewtopic.php?highlight=pentagon&t=7734[/url]

Just my ?0,02

yao, you should check this out as well:

[url]http://newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm[/url]

and read the individual "plans" laid out for each region of the world.

very frightening indeed.

oh yeah, 'bush is a nayzee' as eric cartman would say.

ehh, didn't see that someone else had mentioned it in that other thread...

apologies

I think he should be tried for war crimes. He knew there weren't weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and still made our troops go over there and get rid of saddam. When we really should have went to saudi arabia and turned that pile of sand into glass.

But since they didn't find the WOMD no one seems to be publicly accusing him of war crimes that he deserves. There really ended up being no real reason to get saddam out of power there. He was just a distraction from the real problem over there.

When it comes to saddam the president we should blame for that is the older Bush, the guy who didn't go ALL THE WAY as he said we were to free those people. I think he was the guy that really began the fuck-up of this country.

"Resjpect my authoritay!" - That could be him, too :mrgreen:

Thank for the link Face, that is a damn good read! You know, thanks to this forum, I may very well be one of the best informed students in my class on UN Security Council, which involves a lot on US foreign politics, and in general about politics in the world. This forum is a hell of a contribution to my general knowledge base...hope it's the same for more people around here.

:RightOn:

noone faults him for attacking afghanistan and he had (largely) the full support of his nation at that time

he then moved to attack iraq on a totally invalidated basis of WMD. he also argued that iraq was mixed in with afghanistan in the terrorist attacks on the US despite clear evidence to the contrary. it is irrefutable that he presented evidence to support his case against iraq with full knowledge that the evidence was shaky or even likely false. he was clearly motivated, in large part, by the desire to control iraqi oil and to get revenge for them trying to kill his dad (he blurted this out at least once).

he initiated the patriot act. portions have already been invalidated as unconstitutional yet Bush wants even further invasions of our privacy despite his oath to support the constitution.

he provides heavy tax cuts (largely for corporations and higher tax brackets) during a time of huge deficit from maintenance of war

he is obviously against separation of church and state despite his oath to uphold the constitution

he is obviously in the pocket of major corporations (he himself has giant interests in some of these corporations, but this is true of quite a large number of presidents throughout history. it is still an ugly motivation for a president)

he now wants to privatize social security despite the vast majority of the senate and house clearly standing against it (it looks like he will have to drop this issue)

he is making very ominous signs of possibly attacking iran

to summarize my problems with the man: his flagrant lies to support his agenda have pissed me off, i don't like the popular strategy of republicans spending without limit and passing the burden of paying it back to a democratic president, i don't feel we are justified in attacking an entire country if the terrorism inside constitutes a few hundred persons, and i feel that spitting on the UN is a poor method of uniting the world.

despite my belief that he actually has a general goal of being a good president it is hard for me to find anything he has done to be beneficial to my country except for attacking afghanistan which was still tarnished in my eyes because we attacked an entire country (with large numbers of civilian deaths and discomfort) that had perhaps hundreds of terrorists.

one well respected study found that due to our conflicts in the mideast we are now far more in danger of terrorist attacks

oh yeah, and verified documents show that Bush ok'd the torture of prisoners.

Bush.......what a guy.........

( i know this will incite some to flame but i hope they are based on facts of what bush has done rather than comparisons to other presidents which is really irrelevant)

I definitely do not like what George Bush is doing. He has exploited the gullibility of many an American, most of whom are probably pretty good people. George Bush has stated that the Christian God told him to run for president because he would be needed during a great time of tragedy in America. He is so full of shit, and I feel sorry for those of you who posted in this thread who believe he has or will perform a single morally justified action during his entire presidency.

do you really think he came into Iraque to set freedom ??? i don't think so. and i can't agree that such a stupid person can head a country.

[quote="Gonzo"][quote="thesightless"]

Why USA feels that have to free every single country in the world? Historically they've never acted (or at least, not often) just to be happy with their concious... there was always a power or economic topic besides.

[quote]

this is what I don't get, when we sat back and waited for trouble to come to us, we where told that we only care about America, when we try to do the right thing and help a country out, same argument, America out there pushing there views. so you see it's a no win situation for the US

[quote="Gonzo"][quote=thesightless]Let's see France... their congress doesn't talk about tiranism in other countries, they just let them be. Why can't they see that some people just want to stay as they are? Let's ask ourselves, is it democracy that important that thousands of people have to die for it in hands of others? Is democracy worth a die?

[/quote]

france has made alot of money in these countries, don't let there non action mean there letting them be.

[quote=jeffrey collins]I think he should be tried for war crimes. He knew there weren't weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and still made our troops go over there and get rid of saddam. When we really should have went to saudi arabia and turned that pile of sand into glass.

[/quote]

ya he was the only one saying there where wmds :smack:

we where not the only country to say they saddam had wmds so get off this kick already

there's a reason why the US doesn't ratify the rome statute for the ICC