This Letter of Apology was written by Lieutenant General Chuck Pitman, US Marine Corps, Retired:

"For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue On the one hand, right thinking Americans will harbor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre.

I humbly offer my opinion here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.). I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11. I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs. I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth. I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media. I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause." I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians. I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems. I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES). I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered. I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death. I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise." I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets. I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group. I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state. I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah. I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site." I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites. I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc! I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa. America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do.

We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure , it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?

Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait!

You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins.

Chuck Pitman

Lieutenant General US Marine Corps (Retired)

Semper

wow. thank god he isn't in charge, cause the world would really hate us once he got fed up and dropped every bomb we had on Iraq. seriously though, i wish he was in charge.

it's the double standard i don't get, when did it become cool to blame everything wrong in the world on the US

everything else aside, i think that was one one of the most racist and ignorant comments i have ever heard.

no one can deny that we created the mess in the middle east. we throw money one way, drill up oil over there, support torture and dictators where convenient, and call for democracy, secularization and transparency where we see potential for exploitation.

in a nutshell

shit......that lettes scares me. he?s fucking crazy..... he talks like god....

I'm sorry that Bush cheated to become president in 2000. I'm sorry that no one died when Clinton lied. I'm sorry that we took it upon ourselves to end world terror. I'm sorry that Bush lied in order to instill democracy upon an Arab nation. I'm sorry that Iraqis are afraid for their lives when they walk down the street. I'm sorry that 90% of Sunni muslims won't go to polls. I'm sorry that America is running out of money. I'm sorry that we betrayed our UN allies and ran into Iraq, guns blazing. I'm sorry that 51% of America thinks with their bible. I'm sorry that the polarization of political views in America will tear us apart. I'm sorry that Bush wasn't born with a fully-functional brain.

well put. couldn't have said it better myself. i like that last one especially.

i recommend the films:

bush's brain (which is about karl rove)

and

stupidity (which is about...well stupid people)

I'm sorry for Chuck Pitman. I'm relieved to see not all Americans are like him, not even the Reps. Most Reps I've met here are quite a bit smarter and better in discussions than some high-ranking peepz...

:RightOn:

the letter has propaganda written all over it its like the compain with the cold war agains so called comunists just another reason to make new weapons of mass destruction

Re: This Letter of Apology was written by Lieutenant General

[quote]I'm sorry that we took it upon ourselves to end world terror.[/quote]

im not, at least i know i can walk down 6th avenue to my job and have a little more security knowing that a fucking plane isn't heading into the building above me. my uncle used to have that feeling, but he went to work on that tuesday and died. i didnt care/still dont care what we ahve to do to get the people involved, even if it means tearing the whole fucking region apart. sad, i'll admit, but true.

[quote]I'm sorry that the polarization of political views in America will tear us apart[/quote] you seem to be one of these people, especially with comments like this [quote]I'm sorry that 51% of America thinks with their bible.[/quote]

deal with it and accept that a lot of people in the world care about thier faith. isn't this the reason why the iraqi insurgents are fighting to prevent a damocracy.

people are such poor losers

[quote=fishingnut]people are such poor losers[/quote]

yup, especially the idiots who have put on the "i'd still vote for kerry" bumperstickers. listen guys, he lost, he was an elitist new england putz. he had the moral character of a chimp. remember him begging the veterans to throw away thier medals in a protest when in fact he kept his and still has them in a plaque at his home. granted bush cant speak for shit, but in reality you cant be too stupid if you accumulated enough wealth to buy a baseball team and run a huge state.

Bush just proved you [b]can[/b] be stupid and accumulate enough wealth to buy a baseball team and tun a huge state. :mrgreen:

First of all, Kerry, at least served in the Viet Nam war. That's more than we can say for a lot of our leaders today. The throwing of the medals was symbolic of the distaste for the Viet Nam war (you missed the whole point!).It's called a metaphor! It takes a HUGE amount of moral character to go and fight a war and then realize it is wrong and come home and say so. Obviously you just don't get it. Furthermore, it's no suprise that Bush bought a major league team-he comes from one of the most wealthy, most powerful NEW ENGLAND families in the U.S.-they are called the Bushes!! Go back to elementary school until you can learn to use reason and not just plain stupidity to debate.

how can you be a redneck and a new england family?

and metephor or not, he called all those people to do something with him, then he didnt even do it.

trust me i dont like either candidate but i still think i'll stand behind whoever gets to run the place. i know im not right on everything, but at this point in time i would rather deal with bush and his stupid opinions on things like gay marriage rather than have the other guy yeild to outside pressure. at least he plans on sticking it out until they can fend for themsleves.

:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?

George W. Bush is the only member of the Bush family with the hick accent. His father, mother, and brother all lack the goofy southern drawl.

[quote=DJkeithrace]First of all, Kerry, at least served in the Viet Nam war. That's more than we can say for a lot of our leaders today. The throwing of the medals was symbolic of the distaste for the Viet Nam war (you missed the whole point!).It's called a metaphor! It takes a HUGE amount of moral character to go and fight a war and then realize it is wrong and come home and say so. Obviously you just don't get it. Furthermore, it's no suprise that Bush bought a major league team-he comes from one of the most wealthy, most powerful NEW ENGLAND families in the U.S.-they are called the Bushes!! Go back to elementary school until you can learn to use reason and not just plain stupidity to debate.[/quote]

he's a loser for saying the things he said when he came back, he hung the people who fought side by side with him. people he called brothers. that tells me allot about his character.imo..

Or he wasn't trying to hang them, but expressing what a lot of them didn't dare. I guess a lot of soldiers had an inner struggle between obeying orders and standing by the others, while they totally dissaproved of the war...it's all about loyalty.

Kerry didn't hang them, he wanted them out of there and safe.

and my comment on how kerry is N.E. elitist was based on what kerry said about himself in the newsweek article the reporter conducted on how/why kerry lost. kerry himself admitted he comes off as the old money N.E. type of guy. i can see that. his family was part of the whole kennedy scene back in the day.

[quote=Yao]Or he wasn't trying to hang them, but expressing what a lot of them didn't dare. I guess a lot of soldiers had an inner struggle between obeying orders and standing by the others, while they totally dissaproved of the war...it's all about loyalty.

Kerry didn't hang them, he wanted them out of there and safe.[/quote]

you look at it one way, i look at it the other, to me he hung um up to dry.

Re: This Letter of Apology was written by Lieutenant General

[quote=thesightless] deal with it and accept that a lot of people in the world care about thier faith. isn't this the reason why the iraqi insurgents are fighting to prevent a damocracy.[/quote] When I first read this post I tried to write something pithy in reply but couldn't. So I'll leave it to another old progressive George Carlin. From When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops?:

?GOD HELP US: Let?s start with faith-based, which was chosen by right-wing holy people to replace the word religious in political contexts. In other words, they?ve conceded that religion has a bad name. I guess they figured people worry about religious fanatics, but no one?s ever heard of a faith-based fanatic.

And by the way, none of the Bush religious fanatics will admit this, but the destruction of the World Trade Center was a faith-based initiative. A fundamentalist-Moslem, faith-based initiative. Different faith, but hey, we?re all about diversity here.

The use of faith-based is just one more way the Bush administration found to bypass the Constitution. They knew Americans would never approve of government-promoted religious initiatives, but faith-based? Hey, what?s the problem?

The term faith-based is nothing more than an attempt to slip religion past you when you?re not thinking; which is the way religion is always slipped past you. It deprives you of choice; being another word the political-speech manipulators find extremely useful.?

and btw it's [b]democracy[/b].

i hear that, but i realize that people care about thier faiths more than i care about my own, and they make a large part of thier lives. JFK was huge with this. even though i put what the pope says out of my views on who should lead us , a lotta people dont. and im not going to force them to change that fact. i respect that they have the convictions to stand by something in a stronger manner than i do.

Re: This Letter of Apology was written by Lieutenant General

[quote=HoneyBearKelly][quote=thesightless] deal with it and accept that a lot of people in the world care about thier faith. isn't this the reason why the iraqi insurgents are fighting to prevent a damocracy.[/quote] When I first read this post I tried to write something pithy in reply but couldn't. So I'll leave it to another old progressive George Carlin. From When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops?:

?GOD HELP US: Let?s start with faith-based, which was chosen by right-wing holy people to replace the word religious in political contexts. In other words, they?ve conceded that religion has a bad name. I guess they figured people worry about religious fanatics, but no one?s ever heard of a faith-based fanatic.

And by the way, none of the Bush religious fanatics will admit this, but the destruction of the World Trade Center was a faith-based initiative. A fundamentalist-Moslem, faith-based initiative. Different faith, but hey, we?re all about diversity here.

The use of faith-based is just one more way the Bush administration found to bypass the Constitution. They knew Americans would never approve of government-promoted religious initiatives, but faith-based? Hey, what?s the problem?

The term faith-based is nothing more than an attempt to slip religion past you when you?re not thinking; which is the way religion is always slipped past you. It deprives you of choice; being another word the political-speech manipulators find extremely useful.?

and btw it's [b]democracy[/b].[/quote]

so your point is just because you can't accept how someone feels you are right and they are wrong :?:

It's the other way round I think: We don't believe and want to be left alone, but they [the believers] constantly try to impose their beliefs, or at least their views, on us.

^^ with the crazy wing ya i see that, but with normal everyday people i don't

It's the crazy people ruling the planet right now...

scary :|

I'll take the first spaceship off this damn planet.

fishingnut I will repeat the last sentence of my post... The term faith-based is nothing more than an attempt to slip religion past you when you?re not thinking; which is the way religion is always slipped past you. It deprives you of choice; being another word the political-speech manipulators find extremely useful. They can believe in the god or gods of their choosing just leave me alone to believe or not as I choose.

Re: This Letter of Apology was written by Lieutenant General

[quote=HoneyBearKelly]and btw it's [b]democracy[/b].[/quote]

How incredibly wrong you are. America is not a democracy. If it were, we'd vote on bills every day. We're too lazy, fat, and ignorant for all that work, so we get a bunch of rich fucks up in Washington to do our evil biddings for us.

We are a REPUBLIC, just like the Roman Empire, and our militaristic expansion, our ignorant rulers living in extravagance, and our polarized political views will be the end of us, just as it was the end of Rome. Bush is our own personal Caligula, eating his grapes and riding his horses down in Texas while his country burns.

Fuck you, Bush, for letting this shit get out of hand. Fuck republicans for voting for the one candidate who thinks all men aren't created equal, and fuck religion for causing these fucking retarded wars.

you seem angry...

but seriously, so many people cry about the polarized views today, only to go ahead and try to tell the other side they should be your side... rather than heading to each other... prime example is "the fuck you", you just gave out to the republicans. you should also give it to the democrats for letting themselves sway so far to the left that they waste valuable dollars on a billion special interests and then raise our taxes. they are moreso responsible for what happened early on in bush's first term than he is, they set the country up for it with all the economic sanctions and strangleholds they instituted. they simply should have jsut ignored the middle east and a few other countries and just let those countries' neighbors worry about it. its not who is right or wrong, but how the hell we can all work together. maybe instead of simply telling bush he is wrong, the more hardcore democrats should drop some suggestions on how to fix the problems rather than abandoning them. too many people wanna live in this utopia that view as a better place when in reality people are dying, starving, and warring thorughout the world. if it takes a war for example to actually try to help those people, then why shouldnt we at least try it.?? i know its bad, but if its directed violence to those who do the evil things, in a valid attempt to stop it, then wouldnt the future be worth fighting for???? i mean look at former yugo. the area is at least a better place now that slobodan(?spell?) and his military factions arent running the place into the ground. afghanistan has a representative gov't now, maybe in 5 years they will all be better off. iraq also now has the oppurtunity to flourish. IT DIDNT B4. in reality we DO have people of less than great character openly telling the civilized world, WE HAVE NUKES. you dont think that the korean leadership would use a nuke if even tempted by the UN? just look at IRAN who told the UN nuclear monitoring agency they werent allowed to see what they were doing.. if they had nothing to hide, why in the world would they refuse to show thier hand? its scary. but if another invasion prevents a few nukes from going off in NY/LONDON/BERLIN/tokyo one day, hell i say save a lot of lives and go get the damn things, by force if neccessary. just look at africa, if the US/canada/uk/germany etc go in and use force to stop the genocides, YOU CAN COUNT ON A BUNCH of people crying that we are pro war, when in fact, the use force is the only thing that will stop the problem.

my2cents. and seriously, to every movie star and celebrity and normal joe who whines about how bad and terrible this place is,.... why the fuck are you still here? you are free to go. actually your skills are probably more in demand somewhere else. :| :( :?

(edit) and as far as 9/11 and other terror attacks, they are in no way a faith based initiative. they are done by a group of people from a smiliar backround who are smart enough to claim it as a ""mulim ordeal"" because it creates a bigger target than the small group of people directly responsible. they spread the blame, quite unwarrented at that/. do you honestly think the local bahgdad cable repair guy had anything to do with the the guy who was at the flight controls on 9/11, i dont. and its a fucking shame those worms got themselves grouped into a larger population. the only thing bush really ties to his religion was the attempted ban of gay marriage, and hell we all knwo thats wrong. they are people in the same manner blacks and women are. unfortunetly, there are stupid people in the world and it takes a long time to convince them, otherwise. i mean it was only the mid 1900's when blacks were allowed to even be considered equal. and not even a hundred years b4 they weren't even looked at as people, merely property

you seem angry...

but seriously, so many people cry about the polarized views today, only to go ahead and try to tell the other side they should be your side... rather than heading to each other... prime example is "the fuck you", you just gave out to the republicans. you should also give it to the democrats for letting themselves sway so far to the left that they waste valuable dollars on a billion special interests and then raise our taxes. they are moreso responsible for what happened early on in bush's first term than he is, they set the country up for it with all the economic sanctions and strangleholds they instituted. they simply should have jsut ignored the middle east and a few other countries and just let those countries' neighbors worry about it. its not who is right or wrong, but how the hell we can all work together. maybe instead of simply telling bush he is wrong, the more hardcore democrats should drop some suggestions on how to fix the problems rather than abandoning them. too many people wanna live in this utopia that view as a better place when in reality people are dying, starving, and warring thorughout the world. if it takes a war for example to actually try to help those people, then why shouldnt we at least try it.?? i know its bad, but if its directed violence to those who do the evil things, in a valid attempt to stop it, then wouldnt the future be worth fighting for???? i mean look at former yugo. the area is at least a better place now that slobodan(?spell?) and his military factions arent running the place into the ground. afghanistan has a representative gov't now, maybe in 5 years they will all be better off. iraq also now has the oppurtunity to flourish. IT DIDNT B4. in reality we DO have people of less than great character openly telling the civilized world, WE HAVE NUKES. you dont think that the korean leadership would use a nuke if even tempted by the UN? just look at IRAN who told the UN nuclear monitoring agency they werent allowed to see what they were doing.. if they had nothing to hide, why in the world would they refuse to show thier hand? its scary. but if another invasion prevents a few nukes from going off in NY/LONDON/BERLIN/tokyo one day, hell i say save a lot of lives and go get the damn things, by force if neccessary.

my2cents. and seriously, to every movie star and celebrity and normal joe who whines about how bad and terrible this place is,.... why the fuck are you still here? you are free to go. actually your skills are probably more in demand somewhere else. :| :( :?

dammit double post...

MODERATOR!!!!!! :oops:

I don't have a problem living in America, I have a problem with Americans changing the standards for people NOT living in America.

Do you honestly think Clinton was the downfall of America? Clinton had the right idea. He collected moneys from the citizens to in turn spend it on citizens. The most we can say about Bush is he collected moneys from the citizens to spend it in Iraq.

I don't understand how increased tax rates can so easily make you angry. A command economy is much more stable and reliable than a free market. Free market gives corporations too much power. Command economy guarantees social security forever(something I won't have when the time comes).

Bush won't admit he was wrong about Iraq. They DIDN'T have WMD. He just wanted to show Saddam who was boss, and he did. In 10th grade economics class, I learned that it was nearly impossible to bring another form of government into a new nation. 10th grade. Did Bush even TAKE econ?

Gay marriage ban? What the fuck? What is the problem with gays again? It's "Against God"? Sorry, biblefuck, the CONSTITUTION separates church and state. Don't press your God shit onto me, I don't have to believe it.

I wanted a president who would make back some of our lost money(that's like 8 trillion dollars if you don't know, Reagan and Bush Sr. Lost that much in 8 years, while W. Bush lost it in 4). I wanted a president who realizes it isn't about what's in your hand, it's about what the people want. At least Kerry went to Vietnam and experienced an unjust war forced upon America.

I am angry. I fear for my life when I wake up. If a hydrogen bomb were to decimate Washington DC, I'd be inside the intial blast radius. And why the fuck are we trying to force "our" values on the world regarding nuclear weapons? WE'RE the hypocrite fucks who USED the bomb, and killed like 140,000 innocent civilians.

If anything, AMERICA needs to be invaded. In fact, I hope we're invaded by like all of Europe. At least then you'll see I'm fucking right. America shouldn't try to run the world, most Americans are uncharismatic, stupid, and fat.

And why the fuck are we trying to force "our" values on the world regarding nuclear weapons? WE'RE the hypocrite fucks who USED the bomb, and killed like 140,000 innocent civilians.

cause they are bad plan and simple, it doesn't make a difference if we used them or not. we haven't used them since. and noone should have them.

andd the 2 nukes were used as the last resort. everyone regrets what happned. but there was no other option.

America should stop forcing it's worldview on other countries, but invading it...I'd only do it if I could hang around with you guys and drink beer! :Naughty:

Seriously: Even I, opposed to the way the US is trying to run things, don't see things so radically. It's right when it sais Saddam was evil and had to go. It's admirable when it sais it wants to fight dictators and despots all over the world.

It's suspicious when I find out it wants to use Iraq as a jump-off point for other wars in the Middle East. It's frightening when I read about the 'Gap-theory', which gives it a moral wildcard to start a war against any nation that is 'disconnected' in any way in their opinion. It's arrogant whan it thinks democracy is always better than anything else: sometimes it just won't work. History hasn't been homogenous all over the planet, but they keep forgetting this.

What America has done isn't so bad after all, but the REASONS why are disturbing. That's why I'm still opposed, in principle. And it has been very selective in it's choices of action: that doesn't add to it's credibility.

Iraq acts like it is ready for democracy, but it's not. It's not in their system: as soon as the US leaves and they think they're safe, the Iraqian 'democracy' will turn fake, and the new leaders will start to enrich themselves. That is also inherent to their faith: hierarchical structures, inequality.

IMO, the best chance of preventing terrorism still lies in strengthening economies, creating opportunities, and promoting political and religious reform in those areas really gradually, not in a shockwave style. Support the already existent reform movements, work from within.

Just my 2 cents.

what nation has the us attacked that did not deserve to be attacked? just wondering

[quote=fishingnut]And why the fuck are we trying to force "our" values on the world regarding nuclear weapons? WE'RE the hypocrite fucks who USED the bomb, and killed like 140,000 innocent civilians.

cause they are bad plan and simple, it doesn't make a difference if we used them or not. we haven't used them since. and noone should have them.[/quote]

They are bad plain and simple? That's not even an answer my friend... That has a sociological explanation... we always see the fundamentalism in the "other", and we try to kill that "other" not realizing that we're comitting a "fundamentalism" act... silencing the "other" to make the world more similar to "our" point of view. Killing fundamentalism, is an act of fundamentalism (even bigger).

Why you americans always see the bad in the "other"? Aren't you bad too? Aren't you comitting fundamentalism acts by killing Fundamentalism fans? I think a lot of people has to read a lot more, and stop watching some TV... --> this is not a direct answer to "fishingnut"...it's referred to many people in America.

[quote=fishingnut]what nation has the us attacked that did not deserve to be attacked?[/quote] Well, Japan for one. We were days from winning the pacific campain, but Truman wanted to scare the world, so we dropped the bomb onto Japan. Not onto any military targets either, on major cities targetting civilians only.

Second: Iraq. We had no beef with Iraq. Desert Storm was like 12 years ago, and Saddam didn't have WMDs.

We're just as bad as the 'terrorists', using force and fear to control the world.