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Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

169 durable postsStarted 2010-05-31Latest 2010-06-23
#1378438Post 41 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

Just a thought, but I wonder if China, Russia, Britain, U.S.A. (well not USA, since so many Americans seem content to let Mexicans invade the U.S. for the sake of being 'PC'), or any other country for that matter would have allowed these ships through uninspected if they had declared an embargo or blockade. On a different note, the IDF didn't board the ships guns blazing or unannounced. The IDF did get on the radio and told them to back off. The IDF also made an offer to escort them to a port where everything could be inspected and then sent to Gaza, thus making everybody happy. Unfortunately, "humanitarian aid" was not the objective of this flotilla (trying to cause an incident such as this was the main goal), seeing as they refused a sensible and nonviolent alternative, but to make matters worse, these "peaceful" protesters initiate violence with metal pipes and knives (despite what some may think, these are weapons, albeit a bad choice of weapons, but to say that metal pipes and knives are harmless and not weapons is idiotic). IMO the IDF only acted when pushed...its not their fault that they had the bigger stick! All this does make me wonder though, had this happened anywhere else, the result would likely have been the same or worse, and if it happened, for instance, in North Korea, the boat flotilla would have been torpedoed. By the way, where was the world's outrage at North Korea's killing of 46 sailors? It's amazing to see so many racist antisemites come out so quickly to condemn Israel over this, but when Kim Jong-Il torpedoes a South Korean ship, no one cares.

#1378444Post 42 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

You are totally missing the point. There shouldn't be a blockade. Israel is a nuclear power defending itself against people basically throwing rocks ???

And here we go again, anyone that dares disagree is a racist anti semite :roll: i don' t even know what race/religion most of the people I know are. And I really don't care , my judgement is purely on what I see happening.

This actually addresses a lot of what you and Mariner88 are saying in a fairly balanced way. [url]http://www.slate.com/id/2255610/[/url]

#1378446Post 43 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=DIDI;865907]You are totally missing the point. There shouldn't be a blockade. Israel is a nuclear power defending itself against people basically throwing rocks ???

And here we go again anyone that dares disagree is a racist anti semite :roll: i don' t even know what race/religion most of the people I know are. And I really don't care , my judgement is purely on what I see happening.

This actually addresses a lot of what you and Mariner88 are saying in a fairly balanced way. [url]http://www.slate.com/id/2255610/[/url][/QUOTE]

Rocks? By rocks you mean, like, say, for example, the 2 Kassam ROCKets fired from the Gaza Strip towards Israel this just this afternoon?

Oh, and Hamas, the group now, i guess, governing the Palestinians, declared war with Israel.

Good link though.

#1378447Post 44 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

^^^ Actually rocks would probably have been a better name :lol: Considering how ineffectual they were.. So they are not allowed to defends themselves ??And in the interest of fairness you are going to give us details on what they get in return , aren't you ?? Israel seems to think anything they do is justified , but the nothing anyone else does.

Amazing arrogance !! Personified by the useful idiots remark. We don't buy the bullshit so we are idiots. Now where have I heard that before ?? :)

[QUOTE=88Mariner;865897]Well there is not much more to debate about the Flotilla Incident. The flotilla incident is not part of the view that despite screwing themselves over and over again, an amalgamation of groups aptly named 'palestinians' have some claim of right to land won through a non-aggressive group.

Of course, your proposed method is to arm a group of vigilant (and might I add, determined) anti-democratic fighters with weapons to start a war they cannot possibly win.

In the mean time, let me put something to rest. There was never a country called Palestine. NEVER. That land belonged to the Ottoman empire, then to Britain. 2/3rds of British Palestine was given to Jordan and Jews were barred from living there - the West Bank was then offered to a Palestinian state by a UN mandate, and the Arab countries refused this and sought to attack the Jewish state. Jordan, which already had 2/3rds of the land took the West Bank. In 1967 Israel took the West Bank from Jordan and Egypt. When JORDAN and EGYPT controlled the West Bank there was NEVER an outcry for a country called Palestine....not until Israel won a war prompted by the Jordanians and Egyptians. The Egyptians and Jordanians (and pretty much the rest of the world) don't give a flying fuck about Palestinians, except when the can be used as tools to further the destruction of not just a democracy in the Middle East, but the termination of a group of people (jews) as well. Who was bitching about Black September when the Jordanians terminated an easy thousand + Palestinians? Who was bitching when they continued to kill them? If the surrounding Arab countries truly cared about the Palestinians, they would have integrated them into their countries. But they don't because they don't want them. They're best served as I've mentioned above as the poster child for anti-semitism.

There could have been a Palestinian state 55 years ago. But the Arabs didn't want it. Hell, Jordan and Egypt could have given the Palestinians a state back in 1967/8, but they were more concerned with killing Jews. And so you demand to give back to a group of people who have acted violently hostile to that nation a plot of land or otherwise let them watlz into it thinking nothing will happen.[/QUOTE] Inflammatory much. ???

Never mind giving Palestinians Israel. Just get Israel out of Palestine.

Oh and we are forgetting the dead again :(

#1378448Post 45 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

The fail is strong in your post.

#1378450Post 46 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

Piss poor response :lol:

#1378454Post 47 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=88Mariner;865839]it means that 1) this was a sham humanitarian mission that was designed to provoke israel from its very inception, 2) aid is going to gaza every day and that amount far surpasses anything that could have been done through slow-moving ships, 3) the israeli's promised (and in fact kept the promise) to transport the aid on the ships through the traditional route on land whereas five of the ships agreed to this while the sixth one tried to run the blockade (as it had, so it seems, intended to do from the outset).

The big mistake is that they didn't use more effective crowd-dispersing methods (of course, had the used tear gas, almost every news agency on this planet would have blamed them for using chemical weapons against peaceful 'humanitarians'. The only time any violence occurred was on a ship that didn't acquiesce to the inspection of cargo (not an unreasonable request, nor one that is novel in context).[/QUOTE]

The amount of Humanitarian Aid arriving every day by Israel is 25% of the transfer of Goods prior to the Blockade.

#1378457Post 48 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

S.S.D.D. The US should stop exporting weapons and military technology, stop giving aid and the EU should stop giving preferential treatment for trade. . .than maybe in 20 years something will change.

#1378494Post 49 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=ace_dl;865923]The amount of Humanitarian Aid arriving every day is 25% of the transfer of Goods prior to the Blockage.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Why the palestinians care more about killing jews (cause let's face it, they don't really care about the christian or muslim israelis) than they do their own well-being is beyond me. They continue to reject peace negotiations because it is not 100% what they want, and they continue to act in a violent manner towards Israel. If a group elects a violent faction to represent them, of which said faction intends to destroy an entire country and the dominant religious group therein (according to its charter), I find it surprising that they're sending anything to them at all. A lot of Israelis want the Palestinians to grow the fuck up. Fat chance that will ever happen.

For the record, I'm amused that everyone points at Israel and conveniently forgets that Egypt could do something to but chooses not to. (although I think I recall reading a report that the FINALLY let students in Gaza pass through into Egypt, but for how long the gates remain open I'm not sure).

#1378500Post 50 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=88Mariner;865897] If the surrounding Arab countries truly cared about the Palestinians, they would have integrated them into their countries. .[/QUOTE]

is that ur opinion?do u think maybe Egypt could`ve given them Sinai to live on our shores & leave their country to the zionist imperialistic country aka Israel?!!& who said Palestine didnt exist before?i say Israel didnt exist before..just the stupid Balfour Declaration that gave them that piece of land,,[URL="http://users.ox.ac.uk/%7Essfc0005/The%20Balfour%20Declaration%20and%20its%20consequences.html%29,,thats"]thats[/URL] more obvious... [U] [url]http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%20Balfour%20Declaration%20and%20its%20consequences.html[/url] [/U]

Muslims,Christians & Jews can live together in any land,,,were not talking about Jews in here,were just talking about zionism! so Dave,keep supporting ur country in killing ppl & taking their lands,,that fight that will never end till the end of the world.. As for my stupid country(Egypt) actions,i say any action taken by our government doesnt really reflect what the ppl in here think...its just the stupid politicians who would love to stay in their positions till they die(Mubarak is our great example for that,lol).....

[QUOTE=DIDI;865907]You are totally missing the point. There shouldn't be a blockade. Israel is a nuclear power defending itself against people basically throwing rocks ???

And here we go again, anyone that dares disagree is a racist anti semite :roll: [/QUOTE]

DIDI you`re just into the right track...love ur opinions!:D

#1378575Post 51 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=88Mariner;865968]Indeed. Why the palestinians care more about killing jews (cause let's face it, they don't really care about the christian or muslim israelis) than they do their own well-being is beyond me. They continue to reject peace negotiations because it is not 100% what they want, and they continue to act in a violent manner towards Israel. If a group elects a violent faction to represent them, of which said faction intends to destroy an entire country and the dominant religious group therein (according to its charter), I find it surprising that they're sending anything to them at all. A lot of Israelis want the Palestinians to grow the fuck up. Fat chance that will ever happen.

For the record, I'm amused that everyone points at Israel and conveniently forgets that Egypt could do something to but chooses not to. (although I think I recall reading a report that the FINALLY let students in Gaza pass through into Egypt, but for how long the gates remain open I'm not sure).[/QUOTE]

mmmmmmm....dude,u need to get religion outta politics,,Palestinians are not targeting Jews,theyre targeting Israel which has occupied their land..so if Israel was another Muslim country & it stole their land they would be doing the same...thats why they cant reach an agreement..coz they really want everything that belonged to them one day..i think nobodys here is gonna agree on anything here too ,,everyone chooses his beliefs.& chooses his side & stand for it & defend it...Israel has its opinions,we have our opinions,,,u guys from out of the middle east have a third opinion...so let`s just see what politicians will have to do!

#1378579Post 52 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=zigh0;865974]Dave,keep supporting ur country in killing ppl & taking their lands,,[/QUOTE]

I see this is how things now are, instead of actually looking at any of my previous posts on the subject round here its automatically assumed that because I am Israeli I must be a radical right wing fanatic.

You're all fucking lunatics, read what I have written on the subject over the past 6 years and then show me where I support murder or land grabbing.

Stop making gross generalisations about who I am and what I believe and start reading all my posts for fucks sake.

#1378596Post 53 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

Video footage taken from the Mavi Marmara shows the intent of these supposed peace activists.

Note the time stamp on the first part of the footage, and now tell me that people on that boat weren't after a fight! The footage comes from the ships own security cameras.

[video=youtube;HZlSSaPT_OU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU[/video]

#1378597Post 54 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/02/israel.palestinians.aid/[/url]

case in fucking point: Hamas stops flotilla aid delivered by Israel.

yeah. brilliant. just goes to show how much hamas gives a damn about their people. bunch of trolls, they.

israel doesn't even need to lift a finger to oppress the palestinians. Hamas is doing a wonderful job.

edit: come to think of it, I'm sure if that aid package contained guns, rockets, and grenades, they would have let it enter no problem.

#1378645Post 55 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

by vanity, was the "holy" land exasperated "holy"; ffs., it's fucking land brah, and belongs to no people's idealistic fanaticism, or expression, such as religion. this religious war is likened to a congregated group of (islamic v judaic etc.), old rivaled, hellbent, weak-integrated souls, devout on defending - a to each their own - cry/plight petition(s) to despoiled a concurrence, and exploit and obscure it. blah, blah, blah, zee flotilla is our tortilla blah, blah, blah. let's fight!

opps, i lost my depth perception; guess my work is only worthwhile in zee gimped political arena now. what a bunch of saps.

#1378649Post 56 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=DIDI;865907]You are totally missing the point. There shouldn't be a blockade. Israel is a nuclear power defending itself against people basically throwing rocks ??? [/QUOTE]

Actually, the point you are missing is that the whole reason of doing away with the blockade (which is the main mantra of Hammas and its supporters) is so that weapons can be brought into Gaza, so that the violence can be perpetuated.

[QUOTE=DIDI;865907]And here we go again, anyone that dares disagree is a racist anti semite[/QUOTE] It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's the fact that the International communities reaction to this incident has very strong anti-semetic tones. Had this happened somewhere like North Korea or China, this would hardly be an issue. The UN and international community tends to be very selective with these incidents. I don't recall any international or UN outrage at the recent murder of the five humanitarian aid workers in Pakistan at the hands of Muslims ([URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/10/pakistan-world-vision-aid-attack[/URL]) . If there was any consistency in international/UN reactions to these types of incidents, then the antisemetic argument would be out the window, but the UN and International community could care less about these other incidents.

[QUOTE=DIDI;865907] i don' t even know what race/religion most of the people I know are. And I really don't care , my judgement is purely on what I see happening.[/QUOTE] Then you must see this incident for what it is. What humanitarian aid group sets out weapons in preparation of being boarded for an inspection? None. What humanitarian aid group goes into an area with the intent to initiate violence? None. Humanitarian Aid groups (ironically mandated by the UN) are to be neutral. This group was anything but. They are nothing but Hammas members and supporters that went in disguised as aid workers (isn't that also a violation of International Law?). Thanks to the actions of these fanatics, it will now be even harder to get aid into Gaza, which is very depressing. I suppose that point is also lost to the International community (anyway, if the International community and UN wanted any real credibility, then the people responsible for this mess should be held accountable, both Israeli commanders and organizers of this "humanitarian aid" mission). The Israeli government offered a very reasonable and peaceful solution to this, but it was ignored by this group, because they wanted violence. You see, I was quick to condemn Israel at first, thinking that this was an unprovoked attack on aid workers, but after seeing the real story, I can't say that Israel should be condemned, especially after discovering the motives of this "humanitarian aid" group (which in reality this was no humanitarian aid group, so the UN should just get off of that horse and look at the real evidence).

#1378651Post 57 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

You know what you guys?? No matter how much propaganda you try to spread , it isn't stopping us from seeing what is happening. These examples you put up would be funny if they weren't so sad .

Btw Kiff your effort to paint yourself yourself as balanced in your initial post is a total failure.

Perhaps we should deal with the title of this thread rather than these constant deflections.

#1378661Post 58 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=DIDI;866146]You know what you guys?? No matter how much propaganda you try to spread , it isn't stopping us from seeing what is happening. These examples you put up would be funny if they weren't so sad .

Btw Kiff your effort to paint yourself yourself as balanced in your initial post is a total failure.

Perhaps we should deal with the title of this thread rather than these constant deflections.[/QUOTE]

Of course. Ignore facts. It's the best way to avoid being butthurt.

#1378669Post 59 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=DIDI;866146]You know what you guys?? No matter how much propaganda you try to spread , it isn't stopping us from seeing what is happening. These examples you put up would be funny if they weren't so sad . [/QUOTE]

As Mariner88 rightly pointed out, it's about facts, not propaganda. Facts are not propaganda. Likewise, it could be said that anyone condemning the IDF for it's reaction to the violent attack by this "humanitarian aid" group is buying into Hammas propaganda. BTW there is nothing funny about the International community/UN ignoring other crimes. You are right that it is sad that this is how the International community/UN operates.

[QUOTE=DIDI;866146]Btw Kiff your effort to paint yourself yourself as balanced in your initial post is a total failure.[/QUOTE]

There was no attempt at being balanced. I just had a change of viewpoint based on the facts, not Al-Jazeera (who claimed 20 dead, which wasn't true, very shoddy journalism) or UN anti-semetic propaganda.

[QUOTE=DIDI;866146]Perhaps we should deal with the title of this thread rather than these constant deflections. [/QUOTE] So far, the only "deflections" that I am seeing is that many are calling facts propaganda.

#1378672Post 60 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

They just don't get it do they.

[URL]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3897711,00.html[/URL]

#1378673Post 61 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

just think about someone coming to your house and not want to leave!!! and then they say that its their house and start wanting you to get out of it, how classic is this...one advice people, trust your own mind and dont let the mind control contol you. there is crap happening on this side of the world every moment, and you only see and hear what they want you to hear, it dosent matter if hammas is giving the palestinians a hard time just get the fuck outta their country, be real and stop acting not all the world are a bunch of mind controlled ignorants

#1378676Post 62 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

below...

#1378677Post 63 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=davetlv;866076]Video footage taken from the Mavi Marmara shows the intent of these supposed peace activists.

Note the time stamp on the first part of the footage, and now tell me that people on that boat weren't after a fight! The footage comes from the ships own security cameras.

[video=youtube;HZlSSaPT_OU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU[/video][/QUOTE]

what fight you bright one? they are holding sticks on a ship,,, is this how u define the Palestinian kids throwing rocks at Israelis and they reply by throwing chemical bombs at them, did you call this a fight too?!!! what cheap standards

#1378680Post 64 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=trick12;866175]what fight you bright one? they are holding sticks on a ship,,, is this how u define the Palestinian kids throwing rocks at Israelis and they reply by throwing chemical bombs at them, did you call this a fight too?!!! what cheap standards[/QUOTE]

yes. getting beaten with thick wooden poles only tickles. Since that's true, perhaps we should test your theory out on your thick skull? Afterall...just sticks.

And don't forget the knives...i know for a fact that one of the IDF boarding team did get stabbed. I guess that's nothing either.

[video=youtube;B6sAEYpHF24]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

Keep being useful though.

#1378682Post 65 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=dig72;866170]They just don't get it do they.

[URL]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3897711,00.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right, they really just don't get it, do they?

[URL]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html[/URL]

#1378688Post 66 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=88Mariner;866178]yes. getting beaten with thick wooden poles only tickles. Since that's true, perhaps we should test your theory out on your thick skull? Afterall...just sticks.

And don't forget the knives...i know for a fact that one of the IDF boarding team did get stabbed. I guess that's nothing either.

[video=youtube;B6sAEYpHF24]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

Keep being useful though.[/QUOTE]

in men's fighting standards, thats low... and i didnt see ur reply on the rocks vs chemical bombs..oh here it is" rocks!!! do you know how hard these rocks are, they can hurt ur skull and cause u to get stitches" LAMEEEEE, a stick is not the same as a gun fool stop acting and trying to gain the world's sympathy by these lame excuses," oh they have sticks, lets shoot and blow the hell outa them and we can use the STICKS as an excuse" keep fooling urself...id love to see u try a stick on my skull, and perhaps we'll try the gun on u and see after all which is more effective stick or gun...

#1378697Post 67 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=trick12;866187]in men's fighting standards, thats low... and i didnt see ur reply on the rocks vs chemical bombs..oh here it is" rocks!!! do you know how hard these rocks are, they can hurt ur skull and cause u to get stitches" LAMEEEEE, a stick is not the same as a gun fool stop acting and trying to gain the world's sympathy by these lame excuses," oh they have sticks, lets shoot and blow the hell outa them and we can use the STICKS as an excuse" keep fooling urself...id love to see u try a stick on my skull, and perhaps we'll try the gun on u and see after all which is more effective stick or gun...[/QUOTE]

i don't know what rocks vs. chemical bombs have to do with what happened on this flotilla. clearly no rocks were thrown by either party.

A stick is not the same as a gun. I didn't say that at all. But when you swing a wooden pole at someone, it'll cause some pretty serious damage. Now add several jihadists with wooden poles and you've got something more serious than the rodney king beating. In your fantasy world, getting beating with wooden bats is mere annoyance. Again, I offer the opportunity for you to prove that getting hit with a fucking bat is not anything to cause concern. I'll bring friends so we can accurately set the context...i might even give them some knives just to remain true to the scenario. In turn, i'll arm you with a gun. And we'll see how long you can avoid firing it at me and my crew. I'll even be repeatedly shouting "I"m a peace activist" for good measure.

The position you take is that these boat jihadists had a right to kill those guys who were under orders to avoid any violence whatsoever until it was, as all the videos depict, escalated by the boat jihadists to the point that lethal force was eventually authorized for self-defense. I know you wanted them dead.I know one dead jew means more to you than sustaining the life of any palestinian. Which isn't much different than the position that Hamas takes. (I have yet to see anyone here suggest we should free the Palestinians from Hamas. Yeah, no shit.)

And still, you conveniently forget that they started attacking these guys BEFORE they even set foot on the top deck.You continue to ignore the videos and pictures (my, how that backfired on the hamas sympathizers!). You continue to ignore just about anything that dictates your conclusions are incorrect. Which isn't news to me or anyone else who doesn't submit to the willingness of the 'global community' to implode civilization in hopes that it will blossom utopian surreality.

I guess mindlessly parroting lies is less work. hmph.

Seriously though, we should all tip our hats at the genius who dreamt this scenario up: a well-laid ambush that the IDF walked right into; a crowd of hippies to provide cover for the assault squads waiting all along the top deck - and voile, dead 'civilians' that the jew-hating community can use as fodder to ruin israel, and Erdogyan is granted an ironclad pretext to end the last vestiges of the Turko-Israeli alliance, and giving him full backing by the growing muslim population in the upcoming elections. So many objectives fulfilled simultaneously, it's astonishing. Really. bravo.

I'll leave this with a message from Biden: " So what's the big deal here?"

#1378702Post 68 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=88Mariner;866198]

A stick is not the same as a gun. I didn't say that at all. But when you swing a wooden pole at someone, it'll cause some pretty serious damage. Now add several jihadists with wooden poles and you've got something more serious than the rodney king beating. In your fantasy world, getting beating with wooden bats is mere annoyance. Again, I offer the opportunity for you to prove that getting hit with a fucking bat is not anything to cause concern. I'll bring friends so we can accurately set the context...i might even give them some knives just to remain true to the scenario. In turn, i'll arm you with a gun. And we'll see how long you can avoid firing it at me and my crew. I'll even be repeatedly shouting "I"m a peace activist" for good measure.

"[/QUOTE]

in your fantasy world, if you go fight with sticks someone that has guns (as well as his friends, coz he wont be alone), you are an idiot and you will get fuked my man. so was the attack planned??? but if u come at me with guns and i didnt have anything to DEFEND myself with except sticks and knives then ill use them (so obviously they werent planning to fight, coz they knew the others had guns), so are you saying that the attack was planned???, but seriously though never go to a gun fight with a stick (unless your donatelo) or u will get fuked my man!!!

#1378706Post 69 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=Kiff;865899] It's amazing to see so many racist antisemites come out so quickly to condemn Israel over this.[/QUOTE]

Anti semite = someone who is hated by jews. Am I doing it right?

The problem with israel and it's apologists/appeasers, is that they are too stupid or too blind, could be both, to realise that things are not going to well for them right now.

The whole world is disgusted with israel right now and she has also added Turkey, to the list of many nations that are waiting in line for some serious pay back. And believe me, it is going to happen, just a matter of time.

When israel becomes more trouble than she's worth, even the US will drop her like a bad smell. Again, this will eventully happen, just a matter of time.

History always repeats itself and I can't understand why israel and her appeasers believe that they are immune from this somehow?

Israel must make peace with her neighbours and must end the suffering and unjust acts committed against Palestinian people.

Israel has no other choice, either change her ways or continue on the road to self destruction.

She has been warned many times before, once all has been said and done, she will have no one to blame but herself.

#1378707Post 70 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[B]Mark Steel: Of course, they were asking for it[/B]

                   [I]Wednesday, 2 June 2010[/I]

It's time the Israeli government's PR team made the most of its talents, and became available for hire. Then whenever a nutcase marched into a shopping mall in somewhere like Wisconsin and gunned down a selection of passers-by, they could be on hand to tell the world's press "The gunman regrets the loss of life but did all he could to avoid violence." Then various governments would issue statements saying "All we know is a man went berserk with an AK 47, and next to him there's a pile of corpses, so until we know the facts we can't pass judgement on what took place." To strengthen their case the Israelis have released a photo of the weapons they found on board, (which amount to some knives and tools and wooden sticks) that the naive might think you'd expect to find on any ship, but the more astute will recognise as exactly what you'd carry if you were planning to defeat the Israeli army. It's an armoury smaller than you'd find in the average toolshed in a garden in Cirencester, which goes to show the Israelis had better destroy Cirencester quickly as an essential act of self-defence.

It's a shame they weren't more imaginative, as they could have said "We also discovered a deadly barometer, a ship's compass, which could not only be frisbeed at someone's head but even had markings to help the assailant know which direction he was throwing it, and a set of binoculars that could easily be converted into a ray-gun." That would be as logical as the statement from the Israeli PM's spokesman – "We made every possible effort to avoid this incident." Because the one tiny thing they forgot to do to avoid this incident was not send in armed militia from helicopters in the middle of the night and shoot people. I must be a natural at this sort of technique because I often go all day without climbing off a helicopter and shooting people, and I'm not even making every possible effort. Politicians and commentators worldwide repeat a version of this line. They're aware a nation has sent its militia to confront people carrying provisions for the desperate, in the process shooting several of them dead, and yet they angrily blame the dead ones. One typical headline yesterday read "Activists got what they wanted – confrontation." It's an attitude so deranged it deserves to be registered as a psychosis, something like "Reverse Slaughter Victim Confusion Syndrome". Israel and its supporters claim that Viva Palestina, made up of people who collect the donated food, cement and items for providing basic amenities such as toilets, and transport them to Gaza, wanted the violence all along. Because presumably they must have been thinking "Hezbollah couldn't beat them, but that's because unlike us they didn't have a ballcock and several boxes of plum tomatoes".
One article told us the flotilla was full of "Thugs spoiling for a confrontation", and then accused them of being "Less about aid and more about PR. Indeed, on board was Swedish novelist Henning Mankell." So were they thugs or about PR? Did they have a thugs' section and a PR quarter, or did they all muck in, the novelist diverting the soldiers with his characterisation while the thugs attacked them with a lethal spirit level? But some defenders of Israel are so blind to what happens in front of them there's nothing at all they wouldn't jump to defend. Israel could blow up a cats home and within five minutes they'd be yelling "How do we know the cats weren't smuggling semtex in their fur for Hamas?" If this incident had been carried about by Iran, or anyone we were trying to portray as an enemy, so much condemnation would have been spewed out it would have created a vast cloud of outrage that airlines would be unable to fly through. But as it's Israel, most governments offer a few diplomatic words that blame no one, but accept the deaths are "regrettable". They might as well have picked any random word from the dictionary, so the news would tell us "William Hague described the deaths as 'hexagonal'", and a statement from the US senate said "It's all very confusing. In future let's hope they make every effort to avoid a similar incident."

#1378709Post 71 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

Joe Biden's ... " What's the big Deal?"

[QUOTE] US Vice President [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/joebiden"]Joe Biden[/URL] has offered the [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/obama-administration"]Obama administration[/URL]'s strongest defence of [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/un-condemns-israel-assault-gaza-flotilla"]Israel's Gaza flotilla raid[/URL] to date, in a [URL="http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-02/biden-says-israel-has-absolute-right-to-deal-with-security.html"]interview on US television[/URL] this evening, saying: "[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/israel"]Israel[/URL] has an absolute right to deal with its security interest." Appearing on [URL="http://www.charlierose.com/"]PBS's Charlie Rose Show[/URL], Biden defended Israel's action in boarding the [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gaza"]Gaza[/URL] flotilla as "legitimate". After suggesting the flotilla's cargo of aid could have been unloaded elsewhere, Biden appears to brush off the international criticism, asking: "So what's the big deal here? What's the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza?" [/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/jun/02/joe-biden-israel-gaza-flotilla-raid[/url]

#1378713Post 72 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

I'm only giving them an excuse to keep spreading it aren't I ?? :( Although letters like this in the Age give me hope >

[QUOTE]An offensive term IT IS mistaken to conflate anti-Semitism with ''anti-Israel'', Selwyn Herberg (Letters, 2/6). Anti-Semitism, like all other forms of racism, is abhorrent and should be opposed at all times.

Arguments opposing the policies of (or even the very idea of) the state of Israel are legitimate, and in no way differ from political discourse in relation to other domestic or international issues.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jews like myself in Israel, US, Europe and elsewhere who strongly oppose Israel's Gaza policy. I regard it as offensive to be identified as ''anti-Jewish'' because I share a point of view that Israel is very wrong.

Naham Warhaft, Armadale[/QUOTE]

#1378715Post 73 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

:lol: @ bobjuices post That's bloody brilliant !!:

Just saw a really interesting TV thing on an organisation called J Street. This is really good . Something actually constructive. [url]http://jstreet.org/[/url]

#1378721Post 74 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

@BobJuice: Very interesting read mate

Cheers for posting

#1378767Post 75 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=dig72;866209]Anti semite = someone who is hated by jews. Am I doing it right?

The problem with israel and it's apologists/appeasers, is that they are too stupid or too blind, could be both, to realise that things are not going to well for them right now.

The whole world is disgusted with israel right now and she has also added Turkey, to the list of many nations that are waiting in line for some serious pay back. And believe me, it is going to happen, just a matter of time.

When israel becomes more trouble than she's worth, even the US will drop her like a bad smell. Again, this will eventully happen, just a matter of time.

History always repeats itself and I can't understand why israel and her appeasers believe that they are immune from this somehow?

Israel must make peace with her neighbours and must end the suffering and unjust acts committed against Palestinian people.

Israel has no other choice, either change her ways or continue on the road to self destruction.

She has been warned many times before, once all has been said and done, she will have no one to blame but herself.[/QUOTE]

it's too easy to hide veiled anti-semitism under the rug of anti-zionism. only a fool would believe otherwise. Things are not going well for them because batshit anti-semites (oh, you didn't hear about them chanting the anti-jew songs yet?), and the other anti-property right socialists across this planet emote their views, which is nothing that can be met with a proper response. Since they're using their feelings as validation of what is real, then there is no way to reason with them.

Turkey? Turkey was in good graces with Israel until they engaged in a deal with Iran very recently to import enriched uranium. Oh, and as Iv'e said about a dozen times now, Erdy wants his muslim vote. And the best way to appease muslims in the mideast is to trash talk israel.

What is this serious pay back you talk of? You intend to exterminate the arabs, jews, and christians in Israel? Go on, I'd love to hear your reasoning behind this.

Israel is trouble to people who believe it has no right to exist. So of course you, and other retards think the best thing to do is to eliminate it outright. This is no different than the soundbytes you hear from Hamas. Hezbollah. et al, ad nauseum. It's really tiring.

And so which 'ways' of Israel would you change? To let the free importation of arms and weapons into gaza that will be used against the Israeli population? Would you prefer they turn a blind eye to hamas? Do tell of these changes you'd have them do. Because right now, Israel is playing a dangerous game where they're trying to act politically correct, and it's time and again bit them in the ass.

Amusing, but pointless post on your behalf.

#1378775Post 76 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=bobjuice;866210][B]Mark Steel: Of course, they were asking for it[/B]

                   [I]Wednesday, 2 June 2010[/I]

It's time the Israeli government's PR team made the most of its talents, and became available for hire. Then whenever a nutcase marched into a shopping mall in somewhere like Wisconsin and gunned down a selection of passers-by, they could be on hand to tell the world's press "The gunman regrets the loss of life but did all he could to avoid violence." Then various governments would issue statements saying "All we know is a man went berserk with an AK 47, and next to him there's a pile of corpses, so until we know the facts we can't pass judgement on what took place." To strengthen their case the Israelis have released a photo of the weapons they found on board, (which amount to some knives and tools and wooden sticks) that the naive might think you'd expect to find on any ship, but the more astute will recognise as exactly what you'd carry if you were planning to defeat the Israeli army. It's an armoury smaller than you'd find in the average toolshed in a garden in Cirencester, which goes to show the Israelis had better destroy Cirencester quickly as an essential act of self-defence.

It's a shame they weren't more imaginative, as they could have said "We also discovered a deadly barometer, a ship's compass, which could not only be frisbeed at someone's head but even had markings to help the assailant know which direction he was throwing it, and a set of binoculars that could easily be converted into a ray-gun." That would be as logical as the statement from the Israeli PM's spokesman – "We made every possible effort to avoid this incident." Because the one tiny thing they forgot to do to avoid this incident was not send in armed militia from helicopters in the middle of the night and shoot people. I must be a natural at this sort of technique because I often go all day without climbing off a helicopter and shooting people, and I'm not even making every possible effort. Politicians and commentators worldwide repeat a version of this line. They're aware a nation has sent its militia to confront people carrying provisions for the desperate, in the process shooting several of them dead, and yet they angrily blame the dead ones. One typical headline yesterday read "Activists got what they wanted – confrontation." It's an attitude so deranged it deserves to be registered as a psychosis, something like "Reverse Slaughter Victim Confusion Syndrome". Israel and its supporters claim that Viva Palestina, made up of people who collect the donated food, cement and items for providing basic amenities such as toilets, and transport them to Gaza, wanted the violence all along. Because presumably they must have been thinking "Hezbollah couldn't beat them, but that's because unlike us they didn't have a ballcock and several boxes of plum tomatoes".
One article told us the flotilla was full of "Thugs spoiling for a confrontation", and then accused them of being "Less about aid and more about PR. Indeed, on board was Swedish novelist Henning Mankell." So were they thugs or about PR? Did they have a thugs' section and a PR quarter, or did they all muck in, the novelist diverting the soldiers with his characterisation while the thugs attacked them with a lethal spirit level? But some defenders of Israel are so blind to what happens in front of them there's nothing at all they wouldn't jump to defend. Israel could blow up a cats home and within five minutes they'd be yelling "How do we know the cats weren't smuggling semtex in their fur for Hamas?" If this incident had been carried about by Iran, or anyone we were trying to portray as an enemy, so much condemnation would have been spewed out it would have created a vast cloud of outrage that airlines would be unable to fly through. But as it's Israel, most governments offer a few diplomatic words that blame no one, but accept the deaths are "regrettable". They might as well have picked any random word from the dictionary, so the news would tell us "William Hague described the deaths as 'hexagonal'", and a statement from the US senate said "It's all very confusing. In future let's hope they make every effort to avoid a similar incident."[/QUOTE]

[url]http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/06/of-course-they-were-asking-for-it/[/url]

how about you put a link up next time?

And what a silly article it is. Divorce the facts of what the videos have shown from the potential of the weapon used, and then ignore the videos and focus solely on the small cache of weapons that IN ACTUALITY were used against the boarding team. "it's just a small armory" "maybe a lethal barometer". It doesn't matter what they used. They intended to kill that boarding team. And if they tried to use a lug wrench to crush a skull, that's a weapon. But, the author cries, presumably, "but lug wrenches are not intended to crush skulls, so it's not a weapon." And neither would a pick axe be used as a weapon...until it was used as a weapon.

I'm amused that he cannot adequately defend the fact that 1) there has been an astute blockade for THREE YEARS now, 2) the boats were warned well before they came remotely near the israeli water territory, 3) they were offered FREE PASSAGE of all the aid they had brought so long as they brought it through customs (like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY HAS) and then proceeded to IGNORE that amicable request, 4) they were warned several times when they got closer that they needed to stop the engines as they had ignored the reasonable request to go to the appropriate port for inspection, 5) and then five of the ships stopped, while the SIXTH tried to run. I suppose that this was not enough to the author to 'avoid violence.'

AND THEN, 6) the boarding team, thinking it was a group of peace activists, brought with them non-lethal paintball guns to control the situation which was ordered by their superiors in an effort to avoid any violence whatsoever, 7) but they were fortunate enough to have brought sidarms that remained holstered until shit really got real, 8) and then for several minutes they STILL did not use those sidearms until it was ultimately the only available option to protect themselves from the top deck gang trying to kill them.

But surely, Israel didn't do enough to avoid violence. I also LOL @ his pissy attitude towards the Israeli's dropping the team via helicopters. Presumably Israel has a teleport machine we don't know of? The activists indeed got what they wanted. Everything they did was one step closer to requiring violence to occur. Between the time they loaded the boat, and the time the first gunshot went off, they could have avoided this and acted like reasonable adults who "cared about getting aid to Hamas". But nobody is fooled by this. Which is why they have to make this seem like the Israeli's intended to kill everyone aboard from the very outset. Despite reality dictating the contrary position.

I'm wondering if any of the remaining kool-aid drinkers would agree that a police officer being beaten in the middle of a melee should not ever resort to using his side-arm to protect him.

Another wasted effort by another idiot leftist author.

#1378785Post 77 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=88Mariner;866282] And so which 'ways' of Israel would you change? To let the free importation of arms and weapons into gaza that will be used against the Israeli population? Would you prefer they turn a blind eye to hamas? Do tell of these changes you'd have them do. Because right now, Israel is playing a dangerous game where they're trying to act politically correct, and it's time and again bit them in the ass.

Amusing, but pointless post on your behalf.[/QUOTE]

in ways that they should get the hell outta this country, a country that was promissed to them many years ago but they did not take it at that time coz they were too scared to fight for it, and theyre still scared from their own shadow, like i said before, going to someone's house and claiming it your own is low, and if u dont see it then u are low too, you cant fool the world anymore there's only so much dirt u can hide under the rug before it comes to light...fyi arabs are semites too, so how can semites be anti-Semites?!!! i think ur attempts are worthless here, its obvious that the fight was planned from israel's side and just like any other brutal attempt they tried to cover it and make themselves look innocent, maybe u are a fool enough to believe it but most people are not, so ur attempts are the worthless here trying to defend a low standard killer

#1378787Post 78 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=trick12;866300]a country that was promissed to them many years ago but they did not take it at that time coz they were too scared to fight for it, [/QUOTE]

Who promised them this land? If I write a book saying I'm the Chosen one can I get some land.

#1378788Post 79 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=chunky;866302]Who promised them this land? If I write a book saying I'm the Chosen one can I get some land.[/QUOTE]

as per the holy books (Torah, Bible & Quran), im not trying to get into proof that these are godly books or not, but as per these books it states that this was their promised land, they were told to go capture it but even though with this fact in mind again this is done and past coz at the moment they were to scared to fight for it and they chose not to...and now theyre trying to get it back claiming that its their land...just like they said the men were there to fight and not to deliver the aids, just coz they had sticks on the ship, honestly u cant fool a 5 year old with that, but obviously some people here fell for it

#1378818Post 80 of 169

Re: Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla

[QUOTE=trick12;866304]as per the holy books (Torah, Bible & Quran), im not trying to get into proof that these are godly books or not, but as per these books it states that this was their promised land, they were told to go capture it but even though with this fact in mind again this is done and past coz at the moment they were to scared to fight for it and they chose not to...and now theyre trying to get it back claiming that its their land...just like they said the men were there to fight and not to deliver the aids, just coz they had sticks on the ship, honestly u cant fool a 5 year old with that, but obviously some people here fell for it[/QUOTE]

lol, let them deliver the aids.

of course, whether they initially intended to fight or not is far removed from the fact that they did, and the fact that ultimately, it escalated the violence. indeed, how come nobody got injured on the five other boats? don't answer. just ignore.

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