Has anyone on here seen his documentary American Radical: The trials of Norman Finkelstein? It is a really good watch. His parents were in the concentration camps back in WWII. You can watch it for free online at youku. Here is the trailer.

[video=youtube;1hO_0byNexA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hO_0byNexA&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Re: Norman Finkelstein

this looks like pretty interesting docu, thanks for the heads up i will check it out.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

i watched this, this guy is a very complicated character. pretty good doc. man he utterly demolishes that girl who was crying at his speaking event. damn.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

he ripped her up. He ripped her up so bad she didn't know whether to cry or scream..

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Imagine a male leftist Ann Coulter twho instead of attacking liberals and the american liberal establishment, has devoted his entire attacking Israel and the american jewish establishment. Now imagine that person being more offensive towards the targeted 'enemies' than Ann Coulter. I don't think there is anyone more poisonous to anyone with a scintilla of sympathy for Israel than Norman Finkelstein (who is a self-described Hezbollah supporter). That his parents were in the concetrations camps is merely posited as a smokescreen for his views. To say it another way, "i can trash jews all i want because my parents were in a concentration camp.' This man may be jewish by the mere fact that his mother was jewish, but his philosophy is substantively marxist.

This guy is a grade-A phaggot of the highest order, and is a smear on the memory of the horrors of the holocaust.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

[QUOTE=88Mariner;858088]

This guy is a grade-A phaggot of the highest order[/QUOTE]

your really good point really makes less of an impact when you couple it with derogatory terms like that.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

^ Nonsense. It's a great point regardless of those terms. You've managed to at least identify that. Would you downgrade the prior point as a result? If so, then why so?

Re: Norman Finkelstein

you are out to lunch on this one Mariner. He is only pointing out how the Jew's are basically torturing the arab world. The zionist movement has torn the two apart. Before arabs and Jews got a long very well. But Zionism has wrecked that relationship.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Here's the problem: yeah, i guess it's 'torture' if you refuse to recognize Israel as legitimate and otherwise demand it cease to exist for the sake of indigenous tribes given a unifying label and made out to be poster-children of the arab world (who otherwise want nothing to do with them).

Jews torturing the arab world? How? To him, any time a jew sells a product with a mark-up, that's 'exploitation'. The zionist movement? All they care about is not ceding their lands to people who would otherwise do harm to jews for merely being jews (and note I'm not saying "israeli's" because Israel is about 1/4th arab). They have no intention of expanding their domain beyond their borders no more than canada has no interest in expanding their territory into michigan.

If you assume all of his positions as legitimate, then yeah, I guess jews are evil tortuous terrorists.

But this guy is painted as a 'radical' because he is one. For the same reason neo-nazi's are painted as radicals, for the same reason the ku klux klan is labeled 'radical' and so on...

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Mariner just watch some of the interviews he has. The numbers don't add up. Have there been suicide bombers that bombed Israel? Yes.. Is it wrong? Yes.. But that doesn't give Israel the right to drop massive bombs onto civilian populations..

As far as they don't intend to expand their land that is just nonsense. They have been expanding their land for 30 years.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

as opposed to what? hamas military installations? What you're saying, in effect, is that Israel is not permitted to defend itself. That's precisely what finklestein is asserting.

To simply say that terrorizing israeli citizens with the use of suicide bombings and rocket attacks is 'wrong', and then suggest there is no other way to retaliate, is simply saying israel should simply 'take it'.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

I never said they didn't have the right to defend themselves.. There is a difference between defending yourself and using excessive force. Here and there rockets that don't kill anybody is totally different than dropping 1 ton bombs on civilian populations.

Again I am not saying they should "take it." Look at the facts. Hamas kidnapps one israeli soldier and Israel goes crazy when in reality Israel has over 8,000 pals they kidnapped because they were called "suspected terrorists" The numbers yet again don't add up.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

So they should use the same rockets? Would that be equal force? Would that be satisfactory?

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Well you agree then that they should drop one ton bombs on innocent people? I mean they aren't all terrorists. You can't stop terrorists by killing innocent people. That spawns terrorists.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Wait suicide Palestinian bombers only kill non-innocents? Interesting.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Jesus Christ guys they used a ONE TON BOMB and dropped it in a neighbourhood.. not to mention the use of a banned substance like white phosphorous that burns the person alive.. You are going to compare that to guys wearing a vest in a cafe??

Also when was the last suicide attack??

Re: Norman Finkelstein

oh, they just kill LESS innocent people. Thats ok then.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

so let me get this straight. Hamas or hezbollah kill say 10 jews in an attack. Does that give Israel the right to kill how many then?? 100,1000,10000??? I just want to know the ratio.

Let's not forget that Damascus and Gaza wanted to settle with a peace process with the 1967 border agreement.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

How about both sides stop killing each other? Seems like a decent idea.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

ya and Israel pull out of it's settlements.. agreed 1000%

Re: Norman Finkelstein

^ those settlements....those are the ones on the land Israel successfully defended back in 1967, yeah/

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Runningman, your opinion: should we, in the alternative, provide hamas with equal military equipment in self-defense from this 'torture' and israeli 'terror'?

Re: Norman Finkelstein

the biggest myth is that Hamas and Hezbollah want to drive Jews out of Israel.. They don't want to at all. They used to live side by side in peace until zionism came along. They just want their land back that the jews stole of the last 5 decades.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Since neither side is going to budge they should just stop killing each other and listen to Rodney King.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

If by either side won't budge you mean "jews" then I agree. What is funny about Norman is that nobody wants to debate him because he is too good. I haven't seen him lose a debate yet because he has the truth on his side.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

[QUOTE=runningman;858436]the biggest myth is that Hamas and Hezbollah want to drive Jews out of Israel.. They don't want to at all. They used to live side by side in peace until zionism came along. They just want their land back that the jews stole of the last 5 decades.[/QUOTE]

And that's why there's no traction with you. You claim that fifty years ago, jews 'stole' land.

It's EPIC that in one sentence, you say Hamas and Hezbollah don't want to drive the jews out of israel, and in the second sentence, assert that 'all they want is their land back."

Entertain me for a moment. How are you going to give land back to hezbollah and hamas w/o driving jews out of israel. Just...just humor me for a moment.

A second question: aside from the fact that israel has given back like 90% of the land it won during war, what is your basis for eliminating the national of israel and returning the palestinians back to their nomadic region?

(btw, not that you care, but the mission statement for Hamas is to eliminate israel and all jews within, and make it an islamic capital until judgment day).

Re: Norman Finkelstein

As runningman is mentioning both Hamas and Hezbollah, I wonder whether he could explain where and how Israel is occupying Lebanon?

Also maybe he could explain the second paragraph of Hamas's charter that states:

[QUOTE][URL="http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm"][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/URL][/QUOTE]Now could he offer us any evidence that Hamas has offered a permanent peace treaty with Israel - now dont get confused between a Peace Treaty and a Hudna!

Also, maybe he could explain why after UNSCR 1701, which brought an end to the Hezbollah initiated war of 2006, why and how the international community can still allow Hezbollah to re-arm with Syrian and Iranian assistance in complete contravention to the resolution?

Re: Norman Finkelstein

I would love to educate you

[U]Hamas[/U]

Founded in 1987

[U]Hezbollah[/U]

Founded in 1982

[U]Zionism[/U]

First used in 1890 but really took root in 1917

You see every action has a reaction. The Zionists started taking land away from the pals because of so called "self-determination" and groups were formed in the later half of the 20th century to combat that takeover. The Jews apparently are allowed this self determination but the groups fighting against it are not, and labelled terrorists.

You see Israel started this whole thing backed by the US. Zionism is the action - Hamas and Hezbollah are the reaction. Hamas and Hezbollah will not stop because they know that the Zionists won't stop.

Another lesson given to you by Runningman

Re: Norman Finkelstein

What a shit lesson. I want my money back.

What claim to the land do they have? Even if you could possibly make one up, you neglect to recognize that uh, usually when you win wars, you take the land you have won. (But even still, Israel has given much of that land back to pacify the whiners).

And so yes, a nation, which exists, like Israel, has a right to self defense from outside aggression. I'm not sure how you can possibly extend that to the palestinians who didnt' exist as a 'people' until well after 1967.

So you're saying that that the people who now comprise the group we now call 'palestinians' have a claim over lands not only lost in war, but land granted to the israelis by its original landlord? And that gives them a right to be aggressors??? They're not acting in self defense here....there acting in offense.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Mariner on this topic you are completely upside down. You should listen to Normans debates to get a better understanding.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

I think I"m beginning to understand why you identify with Finklestein. Here is a man who sees the world and declares it exists as such, contrary to all evidence. And so if Finklestein is wrong, then you could be to.

So therefore, "i should hear him out" and get a "a better understanding" of why you take a position so hilariously absurd. His blatant anti-semitism, I hope, would keep you at a distance from saying you're backing him - but it's become more clear that it has not. Here's a guy who says "Every Hezbollah victory I celebrate." Unbelievable. Hear him out? Nonsense.

here's a guy who goes around saying "israel is an oppressor" and has "no right to defend themselves' - a position not dissimilar to the nazis back in the late 1930's. "jews are occupying our land" "and jews have no right to defend themselves."

You should be glad that the Jews have their homeland so they're not out oppressing other people. You should support Israel because at least the Jews are not taking advantage of the non-jews. Jews have been attacked for thousands of years - and yet they still exist. So by all means, continue supporting this intellectual jackass - it really makes no difference.

Just let me know when you start supporting La Raza.

Re: Norman Finkelstein

Norman doing what he does best.

[URL]http://vodpod.com/watch/3764079-flotilla-debate-ratchets-up-norman-finkelstein-and-daniel-pollack[/URL]

Tearing apart anyone spewing filth and lies.