Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=runningman;807000]Miro they can do whatever they want. Have you ever been stopped at your Nazi border crossings?? They laugh at you when you talk about your rights.. Believe me, I have been pulled over many, many times. I have no record and have been pulled over dozens of times and they found nothing. One time I got strip searched for no reason whatsoever.

Also what is with you and comparing your country to the worst countries on earth. Why don't you compare it to Canada or Norway?[/QUOTE] LOL... Dude. Plenty of people get stopped and searched at the border. I've been searched at the border. I got through just fine, no waterboarding or anything else. There is nothing in the Constitution that says they can't search anyone coming through. Guess what? They also scan everyone's luggage and search people at random before we get on airplanes herean too. That's not against the Constitution either.

And I'll compare my country to yours, if you'd like me to. I think they're roughly the same as far as personal liberties go. I don't think you have more virtuous politicians or police officers or judges. You have predefined processes designed to generally ensure basic human rights of people going through the system, you have cases where it works, you have cases where it fails...on the whole, not a huge difference there.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

Ya they also scan your cell phone and your laptop where it goes into a data base. That is why I stopped going there. I just love how you can say this case is good because it is defending the constitution when it has nothing to do with that. The Patriot act I and II have trampled on the constitution. But this is a win for the constitution!! What a joke your points are!

This will only embolden the enemy. Putting their cause on the front burner. They should be tried in a military tribunal away from the cameras and glitz of NY. Military tribunal doesn't mean they won't have due process.

Either way I'm excited to see the evidence. Us "Conspiracy theorists" are chomping at the bit to see what new made up stories there are.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=runningman;807042]Ya they also scan your cell phone and your laptop where it goes into a data base. That is why I stopped going there. I just love how you can say this case is good because it is defending the constitution when it has nothing to do with that. The Patriot act I and II have trampled on the constitution. But this is a win for the constitution!! What a joke your points are!

This will only embolden the enemy. Putting their cause on the front burner. They should be tried in a military tribunal away from the cameras and glitz of NY. Military tribunal doesn't mean they won't have due process.

Either way I'm excited to see the evidence. Us "Conspiracy theorists" are chomping at the bit to see what new made up stories there are.[/QUOTE] Ok so let me get this straight... First you complain that we're not Constitutional enough over here and that we're violating your human rights when you try to cross the border (whatever), then you say that we're stupid for trying to uphold the Constitution and that we should have just shot these guys with no trial.

Make up your mind which side you want to argue. You can't do both at the same time.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

I didn't say that at all.. Read my posts.. I said you guys pissed on your constitution a long time ago. So to hear that this is about the constitution is laughable. You have it in your head that a military tribunal isn't court. I was for a quick case in a military tribunal with proof that is made public and a quick exectution (assuming they were found guilty).

and what is the (whatever) for?? I have no record. An upstanding Canadian citizen. I don't need to be harrased and strip searched when i go to your country. My sisters husband who is American even got strip searched and harrased for being married to a Canadian when he tried to get back in.
It is called Freedom isn't it? For you guys being so free you don't seem to be able to do anything anymore. I mean shit do you guys actually believe that terrorists would travel through border crossings? Look at canada and the US border. Look from BC all the way to Ontario. Almost none of that is protected. But the scary jihadists are going to travel through your highest security zones?? Please.

I have another story of a 45 year old woman with 3 kids accidentaly hit the traffic coordinator in the hand with her side mirror and was put in jail for 3 weeks because she was a flight risk. The charges were later dropped.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=runningman;807061] For you guys being so free you don't seem to be able to do anything anymore. .[/QUOTE]

Im having no problem at all doing whatever the fk i want to do. :EatMe:

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

haha stripped searched, i love it when people start making up shit just to make their case...

i go across the US border on a daily basis, i have a criminal record, have friends with criminal records, also friends who are both arab looking and with criminal records, yes ive been held up for hours, yes ive been threatened with being arrested, etc etc, but never in life ive been stripped search.

you canadians must have a long story of stuffing guns, drugs or wmd's up yer arse.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=runningman;806412]they shouls have just put a bullet in his head when they caught him.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=runningman;807061]I didn't say that at all.. Read my posts.. I said you guys pissed on your constitution a long time ago. So to hear that this is about the constitution is laughable. You have it in your head that a military tribunal isn't court. I was for a quick case in a military tribunal with proof that is made public and a quick exectution (assuming they were found guilty).[/QUOTE] I'm not opposed to a military tribunal. I don't know why they didn't do one.

And I did read your posts. Here is what they said:

[QUOTE=runningman;806412]they shouls have just put a bullet in his head when they caught him.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=runningman;806546]They should have had a quiet execution right after they caught him.[/QUOTE]

Now what do you have to say for yourself?

[QUOTE=runningman;807061]and what is the (whatever) for?? I have no record. An upstanding Canadian citizen. I don't need to be harrased and strip searched when i go to your country. My sisters husband who is American even got strip searched and harrased for being married to a Canadian when he tried to get back in. It is called Freedom isn't it? For you guys being so free you don't seem to be able to do anything anymore. I mean shit do you guys actually believe that terrorists would travel through border crossings? Look at canada and the US border. Look from BC all the way to Ontario. Almost none of that is protected. But the scary jihadists are going to travel through your highest security zones?? Please.[/QUOTE] The "whatever" is because I think you're exaggerating everything just a bit to make yourself sound like some sort of a martyr. The evil Nazi border patrol is strip searching you every time you cross the border, and thus the Constitution is clearly invalid? Really? Do you also complain when they make you x-ray your luggage before you get on a plane? What about when a cop stops you for speeding and asks you to step out of the vehicle and submit to a sobriety test?

I'm sure people have been mistreated at border crossings, as they have been in many other life situations. But by and large, people with the appropriate credentials and who abide by the rules can cross the border just fine. I've crossed those borders and survived without waterboarding, and I know other people who have crossed them on practically a weekly basis without being tortured or whatever else you claim.

And frankly, I don't think any of this has anything whatsoever to do with the issue of extending due process in the case of these terrorists.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

Yes after a military tribunal.. that was what I meant. Not just shoot him right way.

I am telling you true stories and now I am a liar?? I might be over the top but i am not a liar. I didn't exagerrate anything. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If it was your mom Miro you would be right pissed off.

Your right Miro we should just put cameras in our homes and chip ourselves because what do we have to hide right?? Those things did happen just as I stated them. Stop living in your bubbles and live in REALITY.. It is difficult talking to people that don't see reality but the fantasy.

You probably watch those border tv shows and think that is how it works right?

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

:runningman:

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=runningman;807142]Yes after a military tribunal.. that was what I meant. Not just shoot him right way.

I am telling you true stories and now I am a liar?? I might be over the top but i am not a liar. I didn't exagerrate anything. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If it was your mom Miro you would be right pissed off.

Your right Miro we should just put cameras in our homes and chip ourselves because what do we have to hide right?? Those things did happen just as I stated them. Stop living in your bubbles and live in REALITY.. It is difficult talking to people that don't see reality but the fantasy.

You probably watch those border tv shows and think that is how it works right?[/QUOTE] I do live in reality.

The reality I live in is that even though I am generally free to do as I please, I have to obey the law and submit to legal authority.

That means if I a cop tries to pull me over, I [I]have[/I] to stop; if I try to enter another country, I [I]have[/I] to pass border security and potentially be questioned and searched; if I try to board a commercial aircraft, I [I]have[/I] to have to be x-rayed and potentially be questioned and searched. And my mom does, too.

And I have no problem with that, really. Even though the potential for misuse always exists, I'd rather they do those things than not do them at all. If you have a problem with it, stay home.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=toasty;807026]it's you.[/QUOTE] Fear not, this fellow doesn't speak for the rest of us, Chuck.

[QUOTE=chuckc;806537]hopefully this idiotic decision brings him down.[/QUOTE] One can only hope.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=vinnie97;807207]Fear not, this fellow doesn't speak for the rest of us, Chuck.[/QUOTE] By "the rest of us", do you mean...yourself? :-)

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=vinnie97;807207]Fear not, this fellow doesn't speak for the rest of us, Chuck.

One can only hope.[/QUOTE]

ok ok, it's both of you

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[IMG]http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/71804927.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB09582C723EA10EFD39F71A9C9BC19C35[/IMG]

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=unrecogniseduser;807352]ok ok, it's both of you[/QUOTE]

lmao. americans die every day over there...either send the needed forces to dominate or if you wont do that pull out. shouldnt be that hard. terrorists are winning right now and obama dont seem to care.

try those bastards in a military court and get it over with. save all the victims of 911 and the rest of the world of having to deal with a circus for 5 years.

its pure madness i tell ya

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=chuckc;806965][COLOR=Red]is it me [/COLOR]or does it seem like obamas on the terrorists side with all the decisions or indecicions he has made

his goals are to close guatonimo and move the enemy combatants to the states to be tried in state courts, move the mastermind to ny a block from the 911 site and try them in court, will be years and years of a media circus in that trial. 100Xworse than oj...needles to say how islamic papers will cover it.

in august his genral indicates how many soldiers he needs to win. its its almost december and still no decision

refusal to indicate the muslim radical that killed all those soldiers at fort hord could possibly be a terrorist.

it goes on and on.[QUOTE=toasty;807026]it's you.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=vinnie97;807207]Fear not, this fellow doesn't speak for the rest of us, Chuck. [/QUOTE]

Let me see if I've got this straight -- you two honestly think that Obama is taking affirmative steps to help terrorists? I mean, good lord. If that's where you're coming from, there's really not a whole lot more to be said. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'm not in the minority in thinking that Obama probably isn't some sort of secret terrorist. Intelligent minds can disagree about whether or not it is a good idea to hold the trial in NYC; intelligent minds can NOT disagree about whether the President of the United States is intentionally trying to aid the enemy. You've been watching too much 24, I think.

As an aside, Chuck, I'm not one to needlessly harp on someone for misspelling a word, dangling a preposition or improperly using a semi-colon, but dude, if you want to look a little less like an unhinged lunatic, you may want to pay attention to those little red squiggles under your posts, and maybe try reading what you're written aloud before posting it to see if it is comprehensible at all. Please tell me you're typing this on a phone or something. Sweet fancy Moses. :shock:

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

He's not doing much to stand against them. When politics become more important than national defense, that's all you need to know.

To say nothing of all the evidence that will have to be thrown out due to civilian court requirements regarding seizure, etc. Why would anyone want to give a platform to these maniacs? To make the previous Admin look bad, that's why, and try every method possible to win over the sheep in the 2010 elections. I can't wait for it to backfire.

On top of all that, he has a knack for being an apologist the world over for America's faults, and so many of his mentors and associations before and during his Presidency are renowned American haters (Wright "God Damn America" and Ayers aka Weather Underground terrorist organization founder who even in 2001 expressed no regrets for what he did, to name but 2).

So I'm not going to apologize for being skeptical of the intentions of the current White House resident.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BjW1avGcuos/Sc3HnvH9_kI/AAAAAAAAABI/e7pB85OHFdQ/s320/kool-aid.gif[/IMG]

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=vinnie97;807504]He's not doing much to stand against them. When politics become more important than national defense, that's all you need to know.

To say nothing of all the evidence that will have to be thrown out due to civilian court requirements regarding seizure, etc. Why would anyone want to give a platform to these maniacs? To make the previous Admin look bad, that's why, and try every method possible to win over the sheep in the 2010 elections. I can't wait for it to backfire.

On top of all that, he has a knack for being an apologist the world over for America's faults, and so many of his mentors and associations before and during his Presidency are renowned American haters (Wright "God Damn America" and Ayers aka Weather Underground terrorist organization founder who even in 2001 expressed no regrets for what he did, to name but 2).

So I'm not going to apologize for being skeptical of the intentions of the current White House resident.[/QUOTE]

initially i wanted to but the laughing emoticon here but on reflection, i am actually more embarrassed for you than anything else

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

I don't care what you think. It's not my problem if you are unable to logically connect the dots. And on that note, since the personal attacks have begun, I'm done with this thread.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=vinnie97;807516]I don't care what you think. It's not my problem if you are unable to logically connect the dots. And on that note, since the personal attacks have begun, I'm done with this thread.[/QUOTE]

probably for the best

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=unrecogniseduser;807515]initially i wanted to but the laughing emoticon here but on reflection, i am actually more embarrassed for you than anything else[/QUOTE]

^ lol @ this guy.

so of all the things he could have posted, he instead: [B]cries more[/B] -- about other's thoughts.

[IMG]http://www.e-imagesite.com/Files2/1256031547976332815.jpg[/IMG]

so now we have to appease the public by relinquishing our guard against an [I]act of war[/I], and settle instead for something less than a military tribunal? i'm not talking about patriotic lunacy, or nationalistic thraldom, but rather... balls in fukcing battle; grow some.

ffs dude, true law states that good fails when it makes a deal with evil. FYI both those terms are relative.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

Pop quiz, folks -- can someone explain the difference between a criminal court and a military tribunal? I've never seen so many people in this country with such a hard-on for a "military tribunal," and I'd bet dollars to donuts that 95% of people clamoring for a military tribunal have no fucking idea what it is and why it makes a difference.

Here's the thing, though -- why exactly are we afraid of the rule of law? Isn't that the cornerstone of our system of justice? Shouldn't we [I]want [/I]to convict these guys using the normal justice system, to provide it with some legitimacy? It's not that I think that these guys are [I]entitled [/I]to the Constitutional protections we give to our citizens, but those protections do not mean that these guys get off free and clear. Is it that we tortured these folks, and you're afraid that they'll get off because of it? Well, perhaps we should have thought about that before torturing them to begin with, but in specific response to those concerns, yes, we did torture them, and no, they aren't going to get off.

Folks seriously need to calm the fuck down about this and think about it in real world terms. Does there exist a judge or jury in this country, let alone in Manhattan, that is going to let these guys off? People spend so much time adhering themselves to their sides' respective talking point du jour lately, no one seems to bother to think about the realities of the situation. It just doesn't matter.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

i agree that our judicial system reflects our keynote as a nation, and that we should use it by all means as an arbiter.

the reality is this though:

since our legal system has become so corrupted and tainted in our overall population's observation -- it would be more fitting, and rectifying to have this act of war tried on the corresponding level.

it's not a matter of whether they get let off or not, but a matter of impression. come on, obama didn't win because he had the soundest policies; he won because of the commanding impression he laid on the individual in need of some change and hope; and our nation desperately needs it, but not this asphyxiating paralysis of indecision.

politics does not govern our nation, nor the world; it is merely a vain control by those in power. what governs it's direction is right choices, and whether we rise or fall as a race; this we do together.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

i'm not crying at others thoughts. I am just surprised at how ignorant people can be. Clearly all the things i could have posted would be a waste of time if you think evidence obtained during torture should be admitted in trial.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=toasty;807522]Pop quiz, folks -- can someone explain the difference between a criminal court and a military tribunal? I've never seen so many people in this country with such a hard-on for a "military tribunal," and I'd bet dollars to donuts that 95% of people clamoring for a military tribunal have no fucking idea what it is and why it makes a difference.

Here's the thing, though -- why exactly are we afraid of the rule of law? Isn't that the cornerstone of our system of justice? Shouldn't we [I]want [/I]to convict these guys using the normal justice system, to provide it with some legitimacy? It's not that I think that these guys are [I]entitled [/I]to the Constitutional protections we give to our citizens, but those protections do not mean that these guys get off free and clear. Is it that we tortured these folks, and you're afraid that they'll get off because of it? Well, perhaps we should have thought about that before torturing them to begin with, but in specific response to those concerns, yes, we did torture them, and no, they aren't going to get off.

Folks seriously need to calm the fuck down about this and think about it in real world terms. Does there exist a judge or jury in this country, let alone in Manhattan, that is going to let these guys off? People spend so much time adhering themselves to their sides' respective talking point du jour lately, no one seems to bother to think about the realities of the situation. It just doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

it matters because it can't be right to make people admit to stuff under torture and then execute them on the basis of that admission behind closed doors. Surely anyone can see that this is plain wrong? These guys will get the justice they deserve if it is proved that they did what it is accused they did in a court of law.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=i!!ustrious;807520]^ lol @ this guy.

so of all the things he could have posted, he instead: [B]cries more[/B] -- about other's thoughts.

[IMG]http://www.e-imagesite.com/Files2/1256031547976332815.jpg[/IMG]

so now we have to appease the public by relinquishing our guard against an [I]act of war[/I], and settle instead for something less than a military tribunal? i'm not talking about patriotic lunacy, or nationalistic thraldom, but rather... balls in fukcing battle; grow some.

ffs dude, true law states that good fails when it makes a deal with evil. FYI both those terms are relative.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc234/cjhooker01/Internetgangsta.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://media.photobucket.com/image/internet%20comedian/cjhooker01/Internetgangsta.jpg[/IMG]

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

uhm, yes you verily are. you did it once without validating more that u did the first time.

wow, so you are using the torture is illegitimate when ruling bullocks? i blame our sense of normalcy and lack of urgency as a conglomerate on that.

the viet cong used to slip bamboo slivers up fingernails, stick a electrical charge up the urethra of our troops cocks, and peel the eyelids off our troops in vietnam. torture is grim, but at least we only used water boarding and such (as cruel as that was). obviously, the glamor, illusion and idleness has obscured our urgent perception with regards to this critical moment.

either way, shit isn't a stroll in the park, always. sometimes we need to be firm with austere ruth, and armed with the scimitar of reason.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

i cannot read what you have posted at all

"more that you did the first time" :what

what is a ruling bull?

what has the vietcong got to do with a civilized country like America?

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

i edit as i go dude; i dont worry what others may think in the process. go cry more, and read again.

so you think that because we tortured them, and ascertained vital intel in the process, that it's not valid? it simply has nothing to do with the vietcong -- because we are america, and not the north viet cong -- when it comes to dealing with POW.

aside from what might have really happened on 9/11, the issue of radical islam still stands; and these radicals wanna go down as martyrs -- regardless of their dished out punishment -- at the hands of an attacked nation, by them.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=unrecogniseduser;807531]i cannot read what you have posted at all [U][B][I] "more that you did the first time"[/I][I] :what

what is a ruling bull?

what has the vietcong got to do with a civilized country like America?[/I][/B][/U] [/QUOTE]

sorry to say motherlover, but you do lack reading in context. i'm just saying.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

you dont worry what others might think in the process? That is a bit contradictory to posting on a message board. Maybe you should just write on a bit of paper in front of you and chuckle at how humorous you are.

.....

clearly these dots are supposed to mark the transition from well, nonsense into reasonable discussion, so i will try again. I think that the intel obtained from prisoners is certainly valid when trying stop further crimes. However, this is not the same thing as using someones words, obtained while under torture, to kill them.

I suspect the guys will fully admit to everything in court and say they are glad they did it. In that event they will be punished like the scum they are in full view of everyone who suffered from what they did.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

^ what i mean is that i post spontaneously, and then edit right after my initial mistakes -- of which are are omitted (spelling, grammar, sentence structure etc. etc.). will you crymore -- just cause i'm the way i am? or will you cry even more?

so you think that bringing a scabbard to a sword fight is legitimate?

anyone who accepts things at first appearence is sure to be self-deceived.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=unrecogniseduser;807537]you dont worry what others might think in the process? That is a bit contradictory to posting on a message board. Maybe you should just write on a bit of paper in front of you and chuckle at how humorous you are.

.....

clearly these dots are supposed to mark the transition from well, nonsense into reasonable discussion, so i will try again. I think that the intel obtained from prisoners is certainly valid when trying stop further crimes. However, this is not the same thing as using someones words, obtained while under torture, to kill them.

[U][I][B]I suspect the guys will fully admit to everything in court and say they are glad they did it. In that event they will be punished like the scum they are in full view of everyone who suffered from what they did.[/B][/I][/U][/QUOTE]

lol, okay, so you think that because we might put them to death (or what ever they rule), that it's proper punishment? really, we aren't ever the ones to judge a man's life or death in a court spectacle.

in all humble honesty, i would not even seek the death penalty with this guy, cos i know that "nature" or whatever you want to call IT -- will exact proper judgment, whenev. it's not for some self exalted prosecution, or whomever to decide. i just think it would serve much better to do it in a military fashion.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

go on man, i'm happily unfortunate enough to be posting shitfaced. you wanna kid yourself some more? do it.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

i will, but i am working as well as messing about online

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

Given the content of your (many) posts i had guessed early on that you were drunk / ill / stupid / a child. Maybe you should get some sleep. Make sure you drink a glass of water before you go to bed or you'll be ill in the morning.

...

All this stuff about nature or IT punishing him. You must be having a laugh.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

^ likewise, i actually worked all day, now i'm programming another ace mix - while surfing the superficial tubes - and fukcing wit thunderhearts, all whilst drunk. wow, what a shame.

[IMG]http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu242/snakerules/trolled-hard.jpg[/IMG]

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=unrecogniseduser;807545]Given the content of your (many) posts i had guessed early on that you were drunk / ill / stupid / a child. Maybe you should get some sleep. Make sure you drink a glass of water before you go to bed or you'll be ill in the morning.

...

All this stuff about nature or IT punishing him. You must be having a laugh.[/QUOTE]

maybe i'm none of that, and you are just gullible, and without far sight.

my bad bro.

Re: ...tried in new york?! wtf man

[QUOTE=i!!ustrious;807538]^ what i mean is that i post spontaneously, and then edit right after my initial mistakes -- of which are are omitted (spelling, grammar, sentence structure etc. etc.). will you crymore -- just cause i'm the way i am? or will you cry even more?

so you think that bringing a scabbard to a sword fight is legitimate?

anyone who accepts things at first appearence is sure to be self-deceived.[/QUOTE]

ah, the first bit i now understand. I tend to do the same. This business with crying is pretty boring for me. Are you enjoying it?