Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

This pretty much sums up why people are arguing about this:

[url]http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/wackos/wackos.htm[/url]

[quote="runningman"]look it doesn't bother me if your gay or not.. i am not.. but to be given the same rights as a man and wife i am totally against.. quote]

why should equal rights NOT be given to same sex relationships that commit to each other under some kind of civil ceremony?

It is absolutely ridiculous to say that same sex partners who have registered their partnership should not have the same financial and legal benefits as married couples, all needs to be equal

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

For me being GAY doesnt bother me as long as GAY people respect their limits but asking to get married to each other , now this is getting out of control , and then what adopt Kids??? being brought up to know that you have a DAD and DAD for me is not normal even though you give them all the love you can give because nothing replaces the love a Father and a Mother can give to a child , and i repeat it , NOTHING .

My opinion only.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=neoee]What really gets me is that the argument being used against gay marriage is that marriage was a term defined by religion. Is this defined by 1 religion only? And what is preventing a new religion from starting up which allows for gay marriage? If someone started such a religion, would the state then be preventing said religion from practicing their beliefs?[/quote]

I cant agree more. Why are some people so concerned with trying to make other people run there life the way they think they should. And who made the rules anyway?? Does religion actualy create more problems than it solves?

Religion is just a mythology that trys to control and divide comunitys between wrong and wright.

Just my view.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=Bululu]For me being GAY doesnt bother me as long as GAY people respect their limits but asking to get married to each other , now this is getting out of control , and then what adopt Kids??? being brought up to know that you have a DAD and DAD for me is not normal even though you give them all the love you can give because nothing replaces the love a Father and a Mother can give to a child , and i repeat it , NOTHING .

My opinion only.[/quote]

so you would rather have some kid rot in some foster home, than put in a home that will have show him love. that's crazy.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=Bululu]For me being GAY doesnt bother me as long as GAY people respect their limits [/quote]

HA! This sounds like an uncle of mine - he claimed he wasn't racist and didn't have a problem with black people, [color=red]as long as they knew their place[/color]. Bigotry either way you look at it, IMO.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ why not be adopted by hetero couples if they are going to be adopted , and no I don't think that its crazy , I think that it is crazy that a child doesn't recieve enough love of normal parents.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

what i meant mister krlem that as long as thoes Gay parades that are ugly in my opinion dont take place I am ok with a person being gay , and NO I dont think like your uncle :D .

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=Bululu] why not be adopted by hetero couples if they are going to be adopted , and no I don't think that its crazy , I think that it is crazy that a child doesn't recieve enough love of normal parents.[/quote]

I guess its photos like these that really must piss you off. . . .

[url=http://www.imgshost.com][img]http://www.imgshost.com/uploads/f471a916f6.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://www.imgshost.com][img]http://www.imgshost.com/uploads/4d499057ab.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://www.imgshost.com][img]http://www.imgshost.com/uploads/65fddbf69b.jpg[/img][/url]

But i digress. . . . .

Check it out, Hetero couples are on the whole unwilling to take older children, older here being over the age of five or six. When a hetero couple goes looking to adopt a baby they have a rigid critera infront of them. . . . must be an infant, must have blonde hair, must have green eyes . . . . you get the gist.

In every country on this planet there thousands upon thousands, leading to millions world wide, of children who fell through the adoption gap and are being housed until the age of 18 in State Insititutions until they are turfed out to fend for themselves.

These institutions are illequipped to deal with these young people, many of whom face severe depression, anxiety and very low self image. Many of them get caught up as 'child' fighters, or druggies and quite a few end up dead on the street because no one wanted them!

But you know the funny part of this story. . . . . . . It didnt have to be that way. When bigots like you realise the Lesbians and Gays can make suitable, and at times better parents, then their hetero counterparts, these children will stop their needless suffering.

You know, you're entitled to your view, no matter how wrong i think it is, but you're basing in entirely on your own personal outlook on the world. Instead of being so selfish, look at it from the view of one of these kids, and ask yourself whether they would prefer a life of angst and pain or a life of being loved!

Just my 2 shekels worth of course!

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

Very well said Dave - couldn't agree more.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=Bululu]what i meant mister krlem that as long as thoes Gay parades that are ugly in my opinion dont take place I am ok with a person being gay , [/quote]

Ah, so gay people are alright with you as long as they don't express it. Keep it in the closet, eh?

Nobody is forcing you to go to or watch gay pride parades. If you don't like them, just ignore them.

[quote]and NO I dont think like your uncle :D .[/quote]

Not exactly, but a similar subtle bigotry still comes across. You don't have a problem with them as long as they stay away from you.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. :wink:

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=davetlv]what dave said [/quote]

Well put!

:digweed:

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20050422/sbs050422.gif[/img]

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

:CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp:

[quote="daniel.j.hughes"][quote=runningman]look it doesn't bother me if your gay or not.. i am not.. but to be given the same rights as a man and wife i am totally against.. quote]

why should equal rights NOT be given to same sex relationships that commit to each other under some kind of civil ceremony?

It is absolutely ridiculous to say that same sex partners who have registered their partnership should not have the same financial and legal benefits as married couples, all needs to be equal[/quote]

ridiculous? says who?? you.. not very convincing Mr. Hughes. We will see what the world calls fair when the pope takes all the priests out of canada for turning there back on the religion. Now you might joke that sexual abuse amongst kids might drop if the priests leave but really come on. Whether you guys in this forum want to accept it or not the pope is the most powerful man in the world. As long as people are affraid to die he will be the man. So until then i can't see how they will get the same rights. Personally i couldn't give a shit just don't make out in public because i don't make out with my girlfriend in public.. :lol:

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

this whole "problem" was caused by the government. People should never have had to register their sanctimonious unions with the government in the first place. But somehow the government always, i repeat, always manages to convince stupid people who arent' devoted to limited government that it is a good idea. Worst of all, federally recognized marriages were a good idea for quite some time. And now look where we stand. The government could not have seen this coming. So now we have all different factions of people rekindling and revisiting old hatreds of one another because the goddamn government is obsessed with "bringing us all together" for the "union of American citizens" so we can rise up and meet new challenges. The problem is when new challenges and problems arise domestically, people need time and space to reconcile their differences not courtrooms and federal directives.

Am I the only fucking person in the universe that still believes that diversity is one of America's greatest strengths. And am I the only person in the universe who understands that diversity and unity are antonyms. Let people remain separate and free. Gays don't need to be given the right to marry. The fucking government needs to stop keeping track of personal relationships, because frankly that's none of their damn business.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=mylexicon] Am I the only fucking person in the universe that still believes that diversity is one of America's greatest strengths. [/quote]

We rarely agree on things (in the political forum, anyway), but you're spot on here. Well put.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

Rome seems to be closing a lot of church's in canada here. In my city alone on the news said at least 8 church's are closing. I wonder if this has anything to do with the beginning of the church closing in canada because of making this legal??

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

it has everything to do with it and the church is right. the idea of marriage is thiers. either way one group is going to get pissed on in the situation.

1. religous people get pissed on b/c ""marriage"" is a sacrement originating in the hebrew and catholic churches and now they lost it's meaning due to the gov't

2. gays get pissed on b/c they want equal treatment and the oppurtunity to have something that wasnt meant for them. the civil union is what it should be called to avoid all this mess. give them the same rights and priveleges without stepping on the churches. they are humans after all.

BTW, unless you are a bishop, who the fuck cares, let gays have a ""civil union"" and let the churches keep the sacrement, everyone wins. and officailly, gays cannot be "married" per say, it is a legal union. no church will recognize the "marriage"" part and they dont have to.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

people opposed women having the vote and equal rights for minorities when those ideas were first brought forward. if the legislators then had not had the balls to stand up for what is the right and dignified way to treat all people equally, and with respect, then how will society ever progress?

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

but you are taking away the churches right ot prtect thier traditions by doing this and calling it a marriage. thats all i am saying, we need to be fair to both sides of the argument. dont get me wrong, i think gays should have all the benifits of a married couple, but it wouldnt hurt to do the right by the church's side too. let them maintain thier dignity in their sacrements and the views associated with them.

^^ A wedding performed by a judge still results in a marriage. A wedding between people of different religions still results in a marriage.
A wedding between satanists still results in a marriage.
A wedding between atheists still results in a marriage.

You and I have gone back and forth in a couple of different threads about whether marriage originated as a religious sacrament or not, and it doesn't do any good to rehash that now. Clearly though, in this day and age, there is nothing talismanic about having religion involved in the ceremony that changes the legal result of a "marriage."

Trying to graft it back in as a requirement of a marriage now seems to me to be just a less overt way to discriminate against homosexuals.

By the way, the religions that disapprove of homosexuality do not have a monopoly on the concept of marriage. My dad is a minister, and his church happens to welcome homosexuals -- and when he does a wedding ceremony between a man and a woman, the people still end up married at the end of it all. It seems to only be the churches that are opposed to homosexuals that are up in arms about this.

[quote=toasty]^^ My dad is a minister, and his church happens to welcome homosexuals -- .[/quote]

does that make it right then?? there are politicians that are trying to go to church and the church is refusing them the eucharist and telling them they should go to confession to repent (No lie either). also your dad is a minister which makes him what a protesant. There aren't any ministers in the Roman Catholic church they aere called priests.

^^Not really the point. The point is that referring broadly to the rights of "the church" is unavailing to the extent that there isn't one church out there that we all agree offers the "correct" position on anything. I know you're in Canada, but as to the US, the founding fathers came here in part to escape a particular religion being forced down their throats. Hence the first amendment, that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

Declaring one religion's position on this issue "correct" runs afoul of the establishment clause, IMO.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

all i am saying is that you are stepping on the church by calling it marriage and stepping the homosexual population if you deny them the rights granted by the idea of marriage. i couldnt care either way, but im trying to be fair to both sides.

and the term marriage originated as a sacrement in egypt when the hebrew tribes of pre-AD existed there. was never looked at as ""marriage"", rather was viewed as a union between two ppl. i dont feel like looking it up , but if you want to, about.com, and any of the churches websites shold be your first step.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

all i think is ...

what would happen if muslims and catholics started preforming ""officially, state liscenced bat and bar mitzfahs""> you know that the hebrew church would have a fit that the gov't was stepping on their tradition. you cant even argue that fact. there would be an uproar, but does that mean that those two groups shouldnt have the ceremony if they wanted? personally, i think that they should be able to have it if they wanted.

while not the same terms, that's the same idea. gotta look at this from all sides/

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=thesightless]what would happen if muslims and catholics started preforming ""officially, state liscenced bat and bar mitzfahs" [/quote]

I'm not sure that's really the same, in that nothing really changes from a legal standpoint after a bar or bat mitzfah. Sure, it is a coming-of-age sort of event, but it isn't like you can vote, have a beer, drive or do anything special after the ceremony. Put another way, I'm not sure there's a lot of incentive for people who aren't a part of the faith to demand recognition of their ceremony.

[quote=thesightless] there would be an uproar, but does that mean that those two groups shouldnt have the ceremony if they wanted? personally, i think that they should be able to have it if they wanted. [/quote]

This seems consistent with what I'm saying. Sure, evangelical homophobes will get upset if gay people are allowed to marry. I still think they ought to be able to have the ceremony, call it a wedding, call it marriage, and go through life as a married couple. Who cares?

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=toasty][quote=thesightless]what would happen if muslims and catholics started preforming ""officially, state liscenced bat and bar mitzfahs" [/quote]

I'm not sure that's really the same, in that nothing really changes from a legal standpoint after a bar or bat mitzfah. Sure, it is a coming-of-age sort of event, but it isn't like you can vote, have a beer, drive or do anything special after the ceremony. Put another way, I'm not sure there's a lot of incentive for people who aren't a part of the faith to demand recognition of their ceremony.

[/quote]

nothing changes after a marriage in the church if you dont obtain the liscence from the state either. you can be married without state approval in NY. but to be recognized by the gov't you need to file. hell, i could go down to the church and get married without the paperwork, but i still wouldnt get the dependent expemption or rights under probate.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

Toasty I think you are a little off track when you are talking about "the church" and "marriage". The church is the only church out there-- The Roman Catholic Church. The rest are spin off religions that lost there way from "the church". Marriage is a sacrament that "the church" gives out to a male and female who have tied there lives together in front of God and promise to each other the promises made in "the wedding".. "The wedding" is the celebration of "the marriage". There you go now that we have that clear we can move forward. I agree with sightless should be called a union or agreement.

^^^ I didn't know that the Catholic church had a monoply on marriage.

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

now you know.. or you could try gay marriage in the muslim religion.. see how that goes.. :lol:

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=runningman]Toasty I think you are a little off track when you are talking about "the church" and "marriage". The church is the only church out there-- The Roman Catholic Church. The rest are spin off religions that lost there way from "the church". Marriage is a sacrament that "the church" gives out to a male and female who have tied there lives together in front of God and promise to each other the promises made in "the wedding".. "The wedding" is the celebration of "the marriage". There you go now that we have that clear we can move forward. [/quote]

:CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp:

I'm going to take a cue from your sig and assume this was a joke. If you're serious, though, please let me know, because I [b]gotta [/b]respond to that if it was... :D

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[quote=day_for_night]people opposed women having the vote and equal rights for minorities when those ideas were first brought forward. if the legislators then had not had the balls to stand up for what is the right and dignified way to treat all people equally, and with respect, then how will society ever progress?[/quote]

[img]http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7858/gayfornightpicturelol9dv.jpg[/img]

its raining men - halleluja! :Mike:

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

i dont know, i thought most western religions (not rasta) were break offs from judism. including catholicism, protestant groups, mormom. dont really care bout the history of islam. and i dont know at all about the hindu or other south/east asian religions.