I've always been left leaning, politically speaking that it, or as some of you Americans mights say 'liberal'.

I guess because i do believe that the state should look out for those members of society who can't look out for themselves, and because i believe in a progressive taxation system (i.e. the more you earn the more you pay), and because i believe in universal free health care for all, and because i believe that education should be a right and not a privilage (including higher education), I guess all of that defines me as left wing.

But there's a catch. I also support fully the US led war in Iraq and the international fight against terrorism. Two things which clearly today are associated with the less then 'liberal' political fringe.

So my questions to you all is this: How much have the events of the past three years been responsible for re-defining the political map? Can politics be simply defined as left/right wing anymore?

many political pundits like to define the map as between right and left, but in all honesty most of us find ourselves somewhere's in between.

If you really take a look at the political landscape (and this would apply to most countries) the political discourse is really dictated by a small percentage on either side (left or right) who are the most vocal about their issues. Those of us in the middle tend to get washed out cause we're: a) not as vocal, nor b) are we taking an easily definable position (simplicity sells, complexity sinks).

There tends to be a huge identity crisis in the US today as to what defines the right and the left. The right has historically been about fiscal conservatism, yet we have a republican administration that hasn't followed this. They've taken social conservatism and almost done away with the fiscal side (practically shifting towards libertarian...privatize privatize privatize). As for the left, they've continued with a socially liberal agenda, but fiscally they've practically moved into the conservative arena. My point here being that what we've historically defined as right and left has shifted considerably.

As for the war, I would suspect that your homeland may have much to do with your leanings towards the conservative side on that issue, but I will also say that I disagree with this equating of liberalism and pacifism. When it suits the liberal agenda, they will shift from one side to the other. For example, Iraq is wrong cause we should only use the military when we're attacked, yet another repressive gov't, ie. Sudan, we better run in there as quick as possible. To ignore possible comparisons between the two or to refuse to take a deeper look at the issue than simply "saddam didn't have WOMD" is just putting up the usual liberal blinders when it doesn't suit their purpose.

feel like I've been rambling on senselessly, but bottom line, screw this modern day right-left defining, most of us are in the middle and if we ended this turf-battle between the two maybe we could actually get some better things done...

As much as some want us to believe it: there's no black or white in this world, only shades of grey.

I've never heard anybody that is totally right or left winged, even the most stubborn one-siders have things they don't totally agree on. It's just human nature I guess...so many different people, so many different opinions.

the world needs to stop thinking like this and realize that some things need to be left leaning(prescriptions, non violent small time crime, foreign relations, marajuana, cencorship, trade, etc) and some things need the most conservative right leaning takes( security, schooling policy, murder& rape crimes, taxes, govt spending, anything to do with nuclear operations"but should be done through UN", human rights crimes"bosnia/africa", etc)

maybe if you combine the two with a semblence of common sense, we could all lean stright and narrow to the middle and ensure freedom, rihts and safety of the world. too many people get voted into power with thier own agendas :?

Very well said by all. :RockOn:

Only 3 people with an opinion on this? You gotta be kidding me...

I'm still a communist.

j/k :D I have always been a liberal and always disliked/distrusted Bush. Even after 9/11, I did support the war, but not the one in Iraq. Whatever happened to the hunt for Osama, the guy who we really should be looking for?

Heheh, I have this longsleeve with the communist sign printed on the front kingsize: you should see some of the reactions people have on that nowadays...An icecream-seller panickingly asking: "Do you know what that means?!".

Ehh...no. Why?

^Where'd you find the shirt?

There's this brand, Replay (you should know it) and they have a line called Soviet Propaganda. All Soviet and communism prints, cool stuff. I also have a shirt with 'Da' (yes) in Russian characters over the communism sign.

I don't know if it's available in the US though...they might shoot you on sight, heheh.

I agree that many things are just in "shades of grey," but there are definitely some things that are black and white. Not everyone will agree on everything, but that doesn't mean that one side isn't right.
Politics as we know it will continue to be defined by pundits as right/left, but most people(at least in the U.S.) are somewhere in the middle(actually center-right). This is why we've had different kinds of administrations during different periods of history. As a nation, we keep it fairly balanced.

[quote=Yao]There's this brand, Replay (you should know it) and they have a line called Soviet Propaganda. All Soviet and communism prints, cool stuff. I also have a shirt with 'Da' (yes) in Russian characters over the communism sign. I don't know if it's available in the US though...they might shoot you on sight, heheh.[/quote]

Why do like the "Soviet propaganda?" Communist regimes have been responsible for more human death and suffering than any others in modern times. Is that something to be proud of??

Unlike in the Soviet Union and other communist regimes that censure their people, you can actually buy and wear that stuff in the U.S. It's sad how confused some people are.

Man. are you taking that serious? C'mon...

Wearing that stuff is nothing more than a statement that you don't agree with how things are going right now if you want to, or no statement at all. I make a little statement, and it's just funny catching the glances of people around you. As I'm politically engaged, I'd rather wear this than a shirt with a full-on porn scene printed on it. Now that I mention though...?

I am well aware of the history of communism acmatos, and not confused by a long shot. :You thin:

Re: Left/Right wing . . . . who knows anymore!

Well, there's not much to add really, except a few comments.

First an answer to Dave... Why choose a side when you can stay in the "center". I mean, you always tend to lean a bit more to one side or another, but it's not that you accept what's "right" and what's "left", but you support things that you think are GOOD. There are always those "blind" followers, supporting everything about one side, but still most people are are not sheep like that (at least I hope so; well, anyway, there's a lot of us that aren't :wink: ).

Regarding your stance on war on terrorism, IMHO, like it's been said, your homeland has probably a lot to do with it, since it probably has the longest, and the most "active" history of terrorism. And it's not like all liberals or left-inclined people do not support the war on terrorism. I myself, probably like the vast majority of the world, think terrorism is a very bad thing and it has to be dealt with someway or another. But (again IMHO) I have serious doubts that the way it is being dealt with at the moment is the right way.

And regarding communism, not all communist countries were that bad. Yugoslavia for example didn't have that many "political casulties" and most of the people were leading a very decent and good life. although the situation was, mildly said, terrible after Tito died.

Long time no see here Brakada...good comment.

Isn't there a different political spectrum with Conservative, Liberal, Liberatarian, and Moderate(I think)? There are 4 things and each corner is a different party.

[quote=White_Hindu]Isn't there a different political spectrum with Conservative, Liberal, Liberatarian, and Moderate(I think)? There are 4 things and each corner is a different party.[/quote]

Yeah, it's the political compass.

[url]http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/[/url]

This is my political compass:

[img]http://b2b.q2is.com@b2b.q2is.com/pics/politicalcompass.jpg[/img]

For a lot of our problems the solutions are not either conservative or liberal but just plain common sense. For example healthcare. The solution is so easy I can't understand why more people don't speak up for it. We already have a good health insurance plan that covers millions of people. Medicare. Just take the age 65 requirement out and you have good affordable coverage for everybody. Medicare is the envy of all other developled countries (or it was until the Bushito's started fucking with it). Next Social Security. My solution and what more people need to get on board with: LEAVE IT ALONE. If it ain't broke (which it isn't) don't fix it. That privitazation idea is doomed to failure. Just look at the countries that tried it (UK and Chile). A lot of the money that should be going to pensioners is being spent on broker fees. But that might be Bushito's agenda.

[quote]For a lot of our problems the solutions are not either conservative or liberal but just plain common sense. For example healthcare. The solution is so easy I can't understand why more people don't speak up for it. We already have a good health insurance plan that covers millions of people. Medicare. Just take the age 65 requirement out and you have good affordable coverage for everybody. Medicare is the envy of all other developled countries (or it was until the Bushito's started fucking with it). [/quote]

You obvoiusly have no idea how economics comes into play do you?

[quote] Next Social Security. My solution and what more people need to get on board with: LEAVE IT ALONE. If it ain't broke (which it isn't) don't fix it. That privitazation idea is doomed to failure. Just look at the countries that tried it (UK and Chile). A lot of the money that should be going to pensioners is being spent on broker fees. But that might be Bushito's agenda. [/quote]

It aint broke?

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A134-2004Dec14.html[/url]

[quote=HoneyBearKelly]For a lot of our problems the solutions are not either conservative or liberal but just plain common sense. For example healthcare. The solution is so easy I can't understand why more people don't speak up for it. We already have a good health insurance plan that covers millions of people. Medicare. Just take the age 65 requirement out and you have good affordable coverage for everybody. Medicare is the envy of all other developled countries (or it was until the Bushito's started fucking with it). Next Social Security. My solution and what more people need to get on board with: LEAVE IT ALONE. If it ain't broke (which it isn't) don't fix it. That privitazation idea is doomed to failure. Just look at the countries that tried it (UK and Chile). A lot of the money that should be going to pensioners is being spent on broker fees. But that might be Bushito's agenda.[/quote]

I recommend you read the book Reason by Robert Reich. It is a little bit outdated (written in May 2004 before we knew Bush won the election again), but it discusses the strategy that Democrats needed to show was that common sense was the path they needed to take in order to win.