Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=yesme;796067]do you know what a black box is sir?

do you know what it is designed to do?

do you understand that the black box and the engines are made out of the same metal?

do you understand how stupid you sound now?

show me something that says engines are NOT recovered in 95% of crashes, and i might believe you.[/QUOTE] yesme, the fact that engines are recovered in 95% of crashes doesn't mean [I]shit[/I] here. The average statistics may not be representative of the individual case. Statistics also say correctly that the majority of people survive airplane crashes, and that obviously does not apply in every case.

Have you ever considered that there can be a pretty big difference in the results of a crash where pilots are trying to [I]avoid the crash as much as possible[/I] vs. one where the pilots are trying to [I]make the crash as destructive as possible[/I]?

In many typical cases, jets may be traveling at slower speeds (most accidents occur at takeoff or landing) and may attempt to impact in safer ways if control is at all possible - shallower angles, into safer areas, etc. Not that many are going at maximum power into large buildings. Do you understand the difference in kinetic energy that may exist in these two different kinds of scenarios?

So yesme, riddle me this, and I might believe you: where were the engines of Flight 93? Where are the big debris pieces there? The wings? The fuselage? etc. They found what, the fan from one of the engines in a basin downhill from the crash site? Did the government come in and secretly haul them off in the middle of the night?

There are other examples of airliner crashes that produced very small debris fields. I'm not saying that most do, but if there is even one other example out there, then that obviously tell you that it is possible to not have a mostly intact jet/aircraft under certain circumstances of crash.

[QUOTE=chunky;796066]Maybe there where only 3 planes with and the passengers of two of the planes where on the same plane. Did any of the planes take off from the same airport at about the same time.

I'm not saying I believe this or trying to start any rumours.[/QUOTE] Seriously?

[QUOTE=yesme;796072]number 4, except they are all dead.[/QUOTE] You claim to be such an evidence-driven expert on everything, and [I]this[/I] is what you come up with?

Show me your evidence and reasoning for this far-reaching accusation, and maybe I'll take you seriously.

Otherwise, I don't think anything you say is credible if you actually really believe unsubstantiated fantasies like this.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=yesme;796072]number 4, except they are all dead.[/QUOTE]

OK then, care to connect the dots on this using, you know, facts rather than speculation and conjecture?

[QUOTE=runningman;796075]why is 3 so hard to believe:?:. Do you actually think that your gov't would come out in the open ans say "tragedy today we had to shoot one of our planes down killing hundreds on board..":roll: [/QUOTE]

Well, it is undisputed that Cheney did give the order to shoot down passenger planes on 9/11, so the literal answer to your question would be "yes." Of course, in this case, the shooting down of a plane wouldn't be to save American lives it would have been to disguise the fact that they were actually shooting a missile into the Pentagon instead, which they would then sell as if Flight 77 hit it, so I guess you raise a good point?

[QUOTE=runningman;796075] Plus Rumsfeld said they shot it down.[/QUOTE]

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got to see your source on this. I think Don Rumsfeld ought to be serving time right now, for a host of other reasons, but I'm not aware of him ever saying that we shot down Flight 77.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Miro look at a couple of the major facts..

Rumsfeld said they shot it down Silverstein said to "pull it" Bush Lied about where he was when the planes hit

What proof are you looking for exactly?

Here Toasty

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9MD15qs5s[/YOUTUBE]

We agree on one thing forsure that Rumsfeld should be in jail

Re: you know what's astonishing?

That's hardly the sort of unequivocal statement that I would put a lot of faith in -- kinda sounds like a short-hand slip of the tongue -- but even if he did errantly disclose that a plane was shot down over Pennsylvania, he'd be talking about Flight 93, not Flight 77. Moreover, he said that terrorists shot down the plane, not that [I]we [/I]shot it down. Still not a good explanation for what happened to flight 77.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796075]why is 3 so hard to believe:?:. Do you actually think that your gov't would come out in the open ans say "tragedy today we had to shoot one of our planes down killing hundreds on board..":roll:

Plus Rumsfeld said they shot it down.[/QUOTE] Way to completely contradict your own point. :lol: "The government wouldn't come out and say it...but they came out and said it."

And here is why #3 is hard to believe:[B] Because there is NO EVIDENCE. NONE.[/B]

Do you believe any anti-government fantasy story that is told to you with no supporting evidence?

[QUOTE=runningman;796089]What proof are you looking for exactly?[/quote] I'm looking for eyewitnesses who saw something OTHER THAN a large jet heading for the Pentagon.

I'm looking for [I]direct evidence[/I] of a plot and all these things you guys are claiming - not these circumstantial questionings of one hole, claims about some nutty-ass cab driver, out-of-context snippets from Rumsfeld speeches.

I'm looking for a logical story as to why the government would engage in something this ridiculously complicated - running 757s into the WTC but then deciding to cover it up at the Pentagon, etc.

And you should be, too. Even if the government version is flawed, the alternatives you guys are coming up with are even less substantiated by facts and evidence.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^ that.

• 1,000,000

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[COLOR=Red]So you're saying personal testimony is not proof???????[COLOR=White]HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you guys are fucked up..[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Black][COLOR=White]Flight 77 nobody will know what happened. But it didn't end up in the Pentagon. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]Why don't they just release the over 60 cameras that caught it????????[/COLOR][/COLOR] You see this is where your guys story is flawed.

short hand slip of the tongue? These guys have lived their life off of the words they say. They choose their words carefully. Maybe you're right.

Bush just misunderstood where he was Rumsfeld just slipped up by saying shot down Silverstein meant to pull the firefighters out even though that term has never been used before. Silverstein just took a huge insurance policy on the buildings just months before the attacks.

Miro all roads lead to money. The world trade centers were losing big money. They were white elephants. I know you probably can't wrap your brain around the fact that people in this world kill for money but that is the reality of the world we live in.

Why do you think they are only building 1 smaller one now? Why not two bigger and better ones since that is the American way?? You really are looking to hard into this when you should just look at who benefits from it... Also we are for an investigation into a crime. one wasn't done and to say there shouldn't be one is pissing on the graves of the dead.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796089]Miro look at a couple of the major facts..

Rumsfeld said they shot it down[/quote] Oh my god... he did NOT say they shot it down. Listen to the[B] entire context[/B] of his statement.

[quote]"...[B]if we imagine the kind of world we would face[/B] if the people who bombed . . . or [B]the people who attacked the United States in New York[/B] shot down the plane over Pennsylvania."[/quote]

[B]1. It's a broad hypothetical statement.[/B] That means it is intended as a statement of what things would be like under certain circumstances, now what actually happened. See the first part "if we imagine..."

[B]2. He's setting up [U]the terrorists[/U] as the ones who would do the shooting down, not the US Government.[/B] See "the people who bombed in Mosul, etc."

[B]3. It is highly unrealistic to think that government officials would actually drop secret statements about their illegal acts in public speeches.[/B] See your own quote.

[B]4. None of this provides direct evidence that Flight 93 was shot down;[/B] we need a LOT more real evidence to conclude that this out-of-context screwed-up hypothetical statement is true. Without that evidence, the most logical conclusion is that he made a stupid speech with a mistaken comparison in it.

Did you get that, runningman? It's called "critical thinking" aka "logical reasoning."

How can you and yesme claim to be such smart evidence-driven experts in everything, and then believe these ridiculous stories about planes being shot down, passengers being taken somewhere and killed, etc. [I]with no real, direct evidence[/I] and only this out-of-context mistaken hypothetical statement from a speech?

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796128]short hand slip of the tongue? These guys have lived their life off of the words they say. They choose their words carefully. Maybe you're right. [COLOR=Red]So you're saying personal testimony is not proof???????HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you guys are fucked up..[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

As far as I'm aware, Don Rumsfeld has never held elected office, and he's no wordsmith. He has a long history of using colloquialisms in press conferences and otherwise discussing things in a very informal, non-precise manner.

Regardless, he wasn't referring to Flight 77 anyway, so we're back where we started.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796128][COLOR=Red]So you're saying personal testimony is not proof???????[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

As someone that deals with personal testimony as part of my career, no, it is not. It is evidence, not proof, and evidence can be rebutted. One way it can be rebutted is by subsequent testimony by the same person recanting that testimony, which is what has happened here, as I understand it. Regardless, even if you think this was a Freudian slip, it is still not providing personal testimony, he's providing second-hand testimony, because he's testifying about something that someone else (i.e., terrorists) did.

Testimony [I]can [/I]be substituted for proof on a point, but only when it is done in a clear, unequivocal manner with the express intention that it be used to obviate the need for proof on a particular fact. People misspeak all the time, you probably just don't realize it because you're not dissecting every single word.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTdAkhd6Dcw[/YOUTUBE]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGI5BmNd7AE[/YOUTUBE]

What were the orders from Cheney?? I guess we will never know because Cheney never got interviewed under Oath because a real investigation was never done.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Oh another slip up

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3LJXoXpAHE[/YOUTUBE]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I mean where are the planes guys??

Re: you know what's astonishing?

they got the orders before the plane crash.. listen to this shit. "The words were garbled.. " "keep planes away from the house."

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB8JE-54Xqc[/YOUTUBE]

For the record they are trained to shoot down air planes.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796149]I mean where are the planes guys??[/QUOTE] Follow me closely here...

They [I]crashed[/I] and [I]exploded[/I].

When planes crash into a hard structure at maximum speed and explode, they tend to fall apart into smaller pieces and burn.

They do not always stay in one whole piece under such extreme conditions.

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth??

Re: you know what's astonishing?

They vaporized? Damn what a day that was.. two planes disappeared.. three steel structured buildings fell for the first time of fire.. at free fall speed of course.. damn what a day. Oh I forgot that Nasa Military grade thermate was found from welding...fuck unbelievable day!!

Where is the video footage from the Pentagon Miro?? Show it to me..

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796158]They vaporized? Damn what a day that was.. two planes disappeared..[/quote] They did not vaporize; they basically ended up in mostly small pieces of debris. And it has been seen in other extreme airliner crashes before.

[QUOTE=runningman;796158]three steel structured buildings fell for the first time of fire.. at free fall speed of course.. damn what a day.[/quote] Misleading and incorrect statement.

The terrorists also flew large jets into the buildings for the first time that day.

[QUOTE=runningman;796158]Oh I forgot that Nasa Military grade thermate was found from welding...fuck unbelievable day!![/quote] Again, a misleading, incorrect, and thoroughly unproven statement.

Look at something other than Steven E. Jones's highly questionable study. If you find the government's processes to be unscientific, you should find his to be wholly unacceptable. There is no "proof".

Here's a good overview of why Steven E. Jones is a highly unscientific shithead. [url]http://911guide.googlepages.com/jones[/url]

[QUOTE=runningman;796158]Where is the video footage from the Pentagon Miro?? Show it to me..[/QUOTE] I'll get that for you as soon as you show me the footage supporting your colorful stories of planes being shot down, passengers abducted to Area 51 or whatever, and whatever non-757 object you think it is that crashed into the Pentagon that day.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=Miroslav;796162]I'll get that for you as soon as you show me the footage supporting your colorful stories of planes being shot down, passengers abducted to Area 51 or whatever, and whatever non-757 object you think it is that crashed into the Pentagon that day.[/QUOTE]

Unfortuatley there is no footage unlike the Pentagon where there should be thousands of footage.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Miro your dead wrong basically on every point. You act as though your gov't information is credible.. News flash for ya... It isn't. You seem to be very confused about reality.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=Miroslav;796162]

Misleading and incorrect statement.

The terrorists also flew large jets into the buildings for the first time that day.

[/QUOTE]

What terrorist flew into WTC 7 that day. You got the video footage :lol:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

no you see the gov't told us that there was an earthquake right below the building causing it to fall at free fall speeds...;):lol: ah yes that explains the seismograph report..

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796170]Miro your dead wrong basically on every point. You act as though your gov't information is credible.. News flash for ya... It isn't. You seem to be very confused about reality.[/QUOTE] That's really funny coming from someone who doesn't understand how inconclusive and questionably researched those "thermite" claims are.

Even funnier from someone who thinks that some of the planes were shot down and has no evidence for it other than than out-of-context Rumsfeld speech.

How can you possibly believe unsubstantiated lunatic stories like that and then claim that you have any [I]idea[/I] about reality? :roll:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

oh ya just some department of defense guy testimony.. who cares eh? Where is your proof of debunking the thermate claims? You see I have proof from a credible scientist who gains nothing from this other than ridicule. What do you have? Gov't reports?haha what a joke and unemployment is only 9.8% right.. give me a break

Miro you are the furthest on here from reality. Do you know anything about history?

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796089] Silverstein said to "pull it" [/QUOTE]

Come on man, don't insult everyones intelligence. :lol:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796170]You act as though your gov't information is credible.. News flash for ya... It isn't. [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=White]The government story doesn't completely line up [/COLOR][COLOR=White][FONT=&quot]≠[/FONT] the US killed 1000s of its own citizens.[/COLOR]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I don't believe the gov't did it, but they might have covered it up. I'm not to sure but one theory could be that marxist terrorists cells inside the US military and gov't placed bombs in the building and the media had to lie about it because panic would set in across the US that their buildings could have bombs in them. How scary would that be? But again we won't know until a proper investigation is done.

Again just a theory..

Re: you know what's astonishing?

this is what is happening in the US.. you should watch this Miro and learn something from your people...KGB.. oh ya they didn't do anything either..

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rezel2u2V0&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=chunky;796066]Maybe there where only 3 planes with and the passengers of two of the planes where on the same plane. Did any of the planes take off from the same airport at about the same time.

I'm not saying I believe this or trying to start any rumours.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=runningman;796200]I don't believe the gov't did it, but they might have covered it up. I'm not to sure but one theory could be that marxist terrorists cells inside the US military and gov't placed bombs in the building and the media had to lie about it because panic would set in across the US that their buildings could have bombs in them. How scary would that be? But again we won't know until a proper investigation is done.

Again just a theory..[/QUOTE]

These posts crack me up -- "I'm not really advancing this theory, but let me take a moment to advance this theory." :lol:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I knew you would like that one..:lol::lol:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796203]this is what is happening in the US.. you should watch this Miro and learn something from your people...KGB.. oh ya they didn't do anything either.. [/QUOTE]

I know you addressed Miro, but I'm interested to know as well, he should learn what [I]exactly[/I]?

Re: you know what's astonishing?

start anywhere... that was my suggestion.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^I think you should take notes from Chunky on how to respond to some of the information members here are posting...the added question marks and red, white & blue colored font is simply unnecessary...

Watch as these conspiracy theorists giggle nervously, and interrupt repeatedly taking place on the following videos between the "Loose Change" guys and Popular Mechanics Authors who wrote the book: Debunking 9/11 Myths: "Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts."

You know what's astonishing? They call the popular mechanics authors "liars." That certainly seems pathological to me:

1 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M[/YOUTUBE] 2 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d0XEHahJ2Q[/YOUTUBE] 3 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Fm3Zc7D8I[/YOUTUBE] 4 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpckijMVe3I[/YOUTUBE] 5 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEg6XEP-Cig[/YOUTUBE]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796184]oh ya just some department of defense guy testimony.. who cares eh? Where is your proof of debunking the thermate claims? You see I have proof from a credible scientist who gains nothing from this other than ridicule. What do you have? [/QUOTE] Ok, here you go....

The government doesn't debunk the thermite claims; common sense and people who know what they're saying do.

[B]1. We have no assurance as to where his samples even came from.[/B] He says the dust samples were "directly sent to him" from an apartment in NYC. How do we know what the hell was done to it or where it really came from?

And his three metal samples came from Clarkson University, where [I]two pieces[/I] were traced to the towers and the third... no one knows.
[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/09/11/september11/photoessay1994084.shtml[/url]

[B]2. We have no clue how pure the samples even are[/B] The dust sample was supposedly scraped from a nearby apartment and handled who knows how until it got in his hands. Does the dust truly represent conditions in the towers at 9-11? If it was contaminated in any way, it tells you [I]nothing[/I] of value. Ditto for the metal sample as there was a lot of torch cutting during cleanup and nobody knows how it was taken care of afterwards.

If the government had done any analysis with such shoddily sourced samples, you guys would be screaming bloody murder right now.

[B][COLOR="Red"]3. Trace chemicals that Jones found, such as sulfur, potassium, titanium, manganese, could have been produced from [I]many[/I] other non-Thermite origins - which Jones conveniently doesn't mention. Those chemicals are not exclusive only to Thermite, and there were about a zillion ways that you can get all sorts of trace contamination from other things in the building.[/COLOR][/B]

Think with your brains, guys. Those towers came down and the metal sat there in heaps for weaks, some of it burning for a long time, mixing with many other chemical-laced substances - paints, pigments, oils, lubricants, corrosive substances, glues, plasters, plastics, etc. - from all kinds of things in the building (electronics, wires, wall paints, computers, all kinds of other office/basement/maintenance stuff, elevators, pipes, etc.).
[url]http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/chem1/[/url]

So you can get[I] all kinds of shit[/I] on metal samples from about a zillion sources; it's not like you just had a bunch of metal samples held in a laboratory-like environment there.

This is why every credible scientist in the nation - hell, the world - knows that Steven Jones did not "prove" anything, even if he had had perfect samples...except that perhaps he's a dick who wants to mislead people.

No one considers him a "credible scientist" anymore. :lol:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=runningman;796200]I don't believe the gov't did it, but they might have covered it up. I'm not to sure but one theory could be that marxist terrorists cells inside the US military and gov't placed bombs in the building and the media had to lie about it because panic would set in across the US that their buildings could have bombs in them. How scary would that be? But again we won't know until a proper investigation is done.

Again just a theory..[/QUOTE] :roflmao:

Where do you even come up with this ridiculous bullshit? Are you on drugs?

And you think [I]I'm[/I] the one who is out of touch with reality? :lol:

Hey, here's another theory for you... maybe little green martians from the planet Zluton came down that day and shot the WTC towers with their magic death rays because they wanted to get back at Mossad for dissing them at last year's Christmas party. The government then had to cover everything up because else the Jewish League was going to tell the world (they were in on it, too) and panic would set in because most people don't like that particular shade of green. Which would have led to the end of civilization as we know it.

How scary would that be?

But again we won't know until a proper investigation is done. :roll:

Again just a theory... :lol:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

after looking into it further, iguess it was all just a dream, i only wish i had the time in my life to keep up a fight that no one has the balls to do anything about anyway.

one day when you wake up with your freedoms gone and your dollar collapsed, you might catch a glimpse of why the towers fell.

untill then my friends, keep dancing your ass off!

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=yesme;796343]after looking into it further, iguess it was all just a dream, i only wish i had the time in my life to keep up a fight that no one has the balls to do anything about anyway.

one day when you wake up with your freedoms gone and your dollar collapsed, you might catch a glimpse of why the towers fell.

untill then my friends, keep dancing your ass off![/QUOTE] Ok thanks. Come back when you have some evidence and reasoning to support your great theory as to how/why the government flew everyone on Flight 93 to some secret location and killed them all. :)

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=Miroslav;796345]Ok thanks. Come back when you have some evidence and reasoning to support your great theory as to how/why the government flew everyone on Flight 93 to some secret location and killed them all. :)[/QUOTE]

there will never be enough evidence to convince you that your the master of your own fate and that your truely a free man.

you sir are owned, all the way down to your soul, you live, sleep and spit out propaganda, you have been branded from birth and dont even know it.

my words are not understood and i have surely lost my mind, how could you not be in control? you vote right, you live in a free country. you can do what you want when you want, not like in iran right.

economy is a little shaky right now, but other then that, life is good right?

good for you brother, like i said before, enjoy it while you can, and flash back to the first post i made and said that no matter what, you still would not believe anything other then what you had before we started.

now thats a conspiracy eh?

remember the 94% if nothing else from this conversation.

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=yesme;796349]there will never be enough evidence to convince you that your the master of your own fate and that your truely a free man.[/quote] Maybe not. I guess I just didn't realize that being the "master of your own fate" required self-righteous belief in nutty ideas with much less evidence to them than anything the government claims.

But I can spell. That should count for something. :)

[QUOTE=yesme;796349]you sir are owned, all the way down to your soul, you live, sleep and spit out propaganda, you have been branded from birth and dont even know it.[/quote] Thanks for assuming that you know shit about me.

And just who the fuck are you? Morpheus from the Matrix?

[QUOTE=yesme;796349]my words are not understood and i have surely lost my mind, how could you not be in control? you vote right, you live in a free country. you can do what you want when you want, not like in iran right.

economy is a little shaky right now, but other then that, life is good right?[/quote] Control is an illusion. And things can go to shit at any time no matter where you live on this planet. I never claimed that things are perfect here in the USA or that they would always stay just as good in the future.

[QUOTE=yesme;796349]good for you brother, like i said before, enjoy it while you can, and flash back to the first post i made and said that no matter what, you still would not believe anything other then what you had before we started.

now thats a conspiracy eh?

remember the 94% if nothing else from this conversation.[/QUOTE] Awesome. Tell you what: when civilization fails for whatever reason and I'm out in a ditch somewhere, rending my garments and gnashing my teeth, I will be sure to cry out in a wailing voice, "Oh god...why did I not listen to yesme and his 94%? He was such a smart chap. Damn those $2.3 trillion transactions! Damn those classic propaganda ploys!"

And you and runningman will be out on a hill somewhere in druid robes, laughing maniacally and jacking yourselves over everyone's suffering. It will really be a special day. Please don't take pictures.

Bye now. :Howdy:

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[QUOTE=floridaorange;796337]^I think you should take notes from Chunky on how to respond to some of the information members here are posting...the added question marks and red, white & blue colored font is simply unnecessary...

Watch as these conspiracy theorists giggle nervously, and interrupt repeatedly taking place on the following videos between the "Loose Change" guys and Popular Mechanics Authors who wrote the book: Debunking 9/11 Myths: "Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts." [/QUOTE]

I seem to remember this Popular Mechanics Authors footage from along time ago. They seem to just try and reinforce the official story and just seem want you to believe there story because they are experts. What you have is nothing more that a couple barley adults inexperienced against the editor of Popular Mechanics Authors.

Popular Mechanics Authors couldn't even admit the buildings fell at free fall speed they claim the Black Boxes where recovered, they claim its easy to find the public records. they claim the cell phones work at 35 thousand feet and higher. and thats just the first video.