Well, to the chagrin of moderate republicans everywhere, this movement seems to be picking up steam. What better way to reclaim your party from the fringe element that has served as its face recently than to have a group of legitimate whackjobs vocally arguing on your behalf that Obama can't be president because he wasn't actually born here. What's more, republican politicians are caught in a real trick box -- disagree, and risk pissing off a small but disproportionately vocal part of your base, agree and look like a nut yourself.

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[QUOTE=toasty;772597]Well, to the chagrin of moderate republicans everywhere, this movement seems to be picking up steam. What better way to reclaim your party from the fringe element that has served as its face recently than to have a group of legitimate whackjobs vocally arguing on your behalf that Obama can't be president because he wasn't actually born here. What's more, republican politicians are caught in a real trick box -- disagree, and risk pissing off a small but disproportionately vocal part of your base, agree and look like a nut yourself.[/QUOTE]

Is this really a big push by the Republicans? The only people I see covering this are the folks at MSNBC.

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they're angry, conservative, and bored.

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It's true the democratic media is the one pushing this all the time.

<-----------------------Holy Shit 3000!!

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[QUOTE=runningman;772670]It's true the democratic media is the one pushing this all the time.[/QUOTE]

yea because they are the ones with brains and notice the republican party is full of jesus freaks that need to use some hair coloring.

if republicans did not have this ultra conservative jesus freak wing inside of them, i would definitely call myself a republican. but as long as they are there, im out. i'd rather be a democrat that disagrees with half their shit.

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[quote=superdave;772632]Is this really a big push by the Republicans? The only people I see covering this are the folks at MSNBC.[/quote]

[quote=runningman;772670]It's true the democratic media is the one pushing this all the time. [/quote]

well, that's kinda the point of the post -- it has moved from a sideshow to something that is getting broader media coverage, beyond msnbc and HuffPost. Lou Dobbs was advancing it, and it's received non-fringe coverage on CNN generally. Fox has also covered it as a real news story, and their commentators have made more frequent reference to it on their opinion shows. Rush, of course, keeps brining it up as well. Point is, it isn't just something that you see on the fringe anymore and while it isn't something that the republicans generally are pushing as part of their official platform, there is a small faction of the party that is yelling loudly enough, including some bigger names, that it is starting to get traction in the mainstream.

A few months ago, the only people that knew who birthers were were political junkies like myself. Now, it's common parlance.

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why doesn't Barry Soetoro just show his birth certificate to put it to rest? I mean he could just come out at a media event that he does everyday and pull it out for the camera. The live birth certificate obviously isn't enough. If someone asked me for mine I would just show it. What does he have to hide?

It is interesting how the media keeps focusing on the newspaper clip as if I could just show that to border security when I come to the US. Chris Mathews is such a loser.

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[quote=runningman;772822]why doesn't Barry Soetoro just show his birth certificate to put it to rest?[/quote]

It has been made available, in person, to numerous different people now. What does he have to do? Arrange a personal viewing for every American, seriatim? The problem is not a lack of evidence, it is that there exists no quantum of evidence that will satisfy some people.

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why not do it on TV for everyone to see? You democrats and your exaggerating (Show it to every american) all he has to do is show it on tv and put a scanned copy on whitehouse.gov

I would if I was him to show people how stupid they are.

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[quote=runningman;772831] all he has to do is show it on tv and put a scanned copy on whitehouse.gov [/quote]

he did. that's what started this whole controversy to begin with, because birthers thought they identified "irregularities" in the scanned copy which were, of course, present because it was a scanned copy.

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no that was the certificate of live birth to my understanding which is not considered a valid birth certificate. Where is the birth certificate? Not live birth

whatever I don't know wnough about this to debate. He should just show the real deal IMO.

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^^hard to believe that you of all people would be right there, parroting the language of conspiracy theorists, but there ya go. Wonders never cease.

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sorry I am more concerned about the health care bill and vaccines. Either way i know Obama is a puppet for the bankers that have taken over your country. So to me it really doesn't matter. The real conpiracy is that people like you that actually believe what mainstream media is talking about is even relevant.

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[QUOTE=runningman;772920]sorry I am more concerned about the health care bill and vaccines. Either way i know Obama is a puppet for the bankers that have taken over your country. So to me it really doesn't matter. The real conpiracy is that people like you that actually believe what mainstream media is talking about is even relevant.[/QUOTE]

you cant excuse the fact that bush and his jesus freak cronies were the ones who jump started the whole banking bailout garbage.

only reason i am saying this is because you are constantly saying its obama obama obama. yes he is part of the problem but he didnt start it, bush did.

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oh I totally agree.. Bush was just as bad. I hate both parties.

But still where is his birth certificate? Why block out the number like it is Top Secret? Where is the seal?

Why would anyone think that because there is an article in the paper and a live birth certificate that means he doesn't have to show his birth certificate. If you were an American citizen trying to get back in the US you couldn't show a newspaper article. The fact that I keep hearing about the newspaper article makes me wonder.

Once you hear the mainstream media calling people insane and crazy then you know you are on to something. Oh ya Toasty I hear those scanners at the White House aren't very good.

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Place of birth shouldn't be an issue at all, citizenship and your proven adherence to the norms, values and laws of the country you live in are more important in my opinion. I'd rather have a Muslim defending my interests than a white guy ripping me off. Though this example is probably a bit far fetched I think I made my point.

It is the same argument by the way that partially at the basis of the civil war in Ivory Coast which ruined the whole country. :D

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[quote=runningman;772934] Once you hear the mainstream media calling people insane and crazy then you know you are on to something. [/quote]

This may be true as to one to two things, but when EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE is viewed as batshit insane by the rest of the populace, well, that might be a problem. I'm not saying anything, I'm just sayin'...

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edit

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[quote=runningman;773119]The average person I speak with on a day-day doesn't even want to talk about how fucked up the world is. [/quote]

What a visual:

[Runningman sits down on a subway next to someone] RM: Hi, I'd like to talk to you about the problems of the world. Stranger: [gets up and changes seats]

:lol:

Yes, ignorance is bliss -- but has it occurred to you that the horrors of the world and your never-ending pessimism might not be everyone's favorite topic? I prefer to focus upon things a little more upbeat.

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where are the upbeat topics in the world?

[IMG]http://www.ruderfinn.co.uk/blogs/dotcom/files/2009/06/enviromental-head-in-the-sand.jpg[/IMG]

There is a big difference between being scared and being prepared.

What a visual Toasty doing what he does best. Bashing Republicans. Is that where you get your upbeat discussions from? I only see division with all of your topics Toasty. I have news for ya it doesn't matter if it is the Republicans or Democrats in place because the bankers are in control. But follow your bliss I guess. if bashing white hillbilly repubs is where you get your kicks go for it.

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What.The. Fuck. Are. You. Talking. About?

Dude, when I listen to you blather, I just think to myself: gin rummy. What I mean is this: over the years, I've played an awful lot of gin rummy. Between my grandparents while growing up, coworkers during downtime, college roommates, and even my wife when needing to pass some time, I've played a lot, and I've gotten to be pretty good at it. The people I've played with have also gotten to be pretty good, and I love playing with them because it's very competitive. As with most card games, the more you play, the more you understand the strategy, and the more you're able to predict what your opponent [I]should [/I]be doing, and you build your gameplay around that.

You do, however, reach a point where it's tough to play with someone that hasn't played a lot, because their play doesn't make a lot of sense, they don't play the way they "should" and although they're easy prey, it just isn't a lot of fun.

That's how I view your participation in this forum. This has nothing to do with ideology, by the way, it has to do with the fact that you haven't uttered a lucid thought in here for many, many months. As a logically-thinking person, your posts make my brain bleed. Frankly, the fact that you are the same person that developed that Laser-Aid thing, which I think is brilliant, is positively puzzling to me, because your thought structure does not reflect one who is versed in the scientific method.

Your. Arguments. Make. No. Sense. What's worse, they seem to reflect that you are reading words that they rest of us are not -- or, giving you the benefit of every doubt, that you're simply generalizing the things you do read to match whatever bizarre theory you intend to advance.

I dunno, dude. Where's that ignore button again?

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[quote=runningman;773137]where are the upbeat topics in the world?[/quote] There are lots of upbeat topics in the world... if you're not just a bitter, paranoid, pessimistic person.

I have a wonderful girlfriend who I hope to soon make my fiancee. That makes me upbeat.

I have a great family and some important friends that care about me, and who I care about as well. My two little nephews are running around and talking. That makes me upbeat.

I had a fun, relaxing weekend this past week...went to the Monterey Bay area with some folks and chilled on the beach. Awesome seaside brunch. That made me upbeat.

You know, life has never been "easy" or "great". And the sky is not going to fall tomorrow, for God's sake. Get a grip. When has it been so much better? Since the beginning of mankind, you've had thieving, cheating, murdering, adultering, raping, pillaging, etc. Back in the Middle Ages, you had people killing each other in the Crusades and dying right and left of the plague. Before that, you had the Romans going around conquering everyone and Huns and Vikings going around wrecking shit and killing people. Early in the 20th century, you had the Great Depression and a world war. I could go on for the rest of my life about all the crap that people have gone through.

But we're still here and humanity has persevered. If you're a glass half-full kind of guy, then the world has always been and will always be fucked up. And some day, some giant meteor will strike the planet and we'll all be extinct and things will really be fucked up. But until then, there are also good things in the world...if you know where to look.

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^^:Bingo: Word

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[URL="http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_BIRTH_CERTIFICATE?SITE=TXMCA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT"]Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real[/URL]

[I]However, Obama's birth certificate along with birth notices from the two Honolulu newspapers were brought forward even before he took office. But that's done nothing to shake the belief by many Obama critics that the president was born abroad.[/I]

:sleep:

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[quote=Miroslav;773182]There are lots of upbeat topics in the world... if you're not just a bitter, paranoid, pessimistic person.

I have a wonderful girlfriend who I hope to soon make my fiancee. That makes me upbeat.

I have a great family and some important friends that care about me, and who I care about as well. My two little nephews are running around and talking. That makes me upbeat.

I had a fun, relaxing weekend this past week...went to the Monterey Bay area with some folks and chilled on the beach. Awesome seaside brunch. That made me upbeat.

You know, life has never been "easy" or "great". And the sky is not going to fall tomorrow, for God's sake. Get a grip. When has it been so much better? Since the beginning of mankind, you've had thieving, cheating, murdering, adultering, raping, pillaging, etc. Back in the Middle Ages, you had people killing each other in the Crusades and dying right and left of the plague. Before that, you had the Romans going around conquering everyone and Huns and Vikings going around wrecking shit and killing people. Early in the 20th century, you had the Great Depression and a world war. I could go on for the rest of my life about all the crap that people have gone through.

But we're still here and humanity has persevered. If you're a glass half-full kind of guy, then the world has always been and will always be fucked up. And some day, some giant meteor will strike the planet and we'll all be extinct and things will really be fucked up. But until then, there are also good things in the world...if you know where to look.[/quote]

Thanks for the attitude adjustment guys. And I mean that. I will try to be more upbeat from now on.

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^^ Just to be clear: don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trivialize the problems we have in the world today. There are real threats and we need to seriously do our best to keep working at them. There are definitely a lot of problems with the banking system, among others. All I'm saying is that it will unfortunately always be a never-ending battle...there will always be something bad out there that we have to deal with...and yet we still have to find a way to live a little inbetween all of that. Life is short.

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in last analysis, the notion of heritage, background and circumstantial birthplaces is irrelevant, imo.

these current events come across as a predicatable transition. but, everything that is transpiring at the moment has already been foreseen. this whole debacle is a joke, and the cops involved are all excessive, and desirous of limelight -- that is all. what a fucking illusion ffs. i could careless, politics is transitory.

the real changes happen on a unseen and long tem level. true growth is slow growth.

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[quote=i!!ustrious;773222]in last analysis, the notion of heritage, background and circumstantial birthplaces is irrelevant, imo.[/quote] There are two theoretical perspectives at play here: your personal opinion of right and wrong in this situation, and the legal precedent as provided by the US Constitution. The two are not necessarily compatible with one another. While I sympathize with your personal opinion from a general practical standpoint, I do think that heritage and citizenship is a relevant issue from a Costitutional standpoint. If I really believed that Obama wasn't a born US citizen, then I would actually be concerned.

Why? Because the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It requires interpretation, but it should still serve as our guiding set of legal principles in how we run this country. If we were to establish the precedent of just bypassing the articles of the Constitution at will, then [I]that's a problem[/I]. If we as a nation can sufficiently determine and agree that heritage / birth / citizenship requirements of the US President are un-Constitutional, then the correct discipline is to propose and pass an amendment to the Constitution.

As an aside...my personal opinion is that [I]some [/I]form heritage and citizenship requirements still do more good than harm.