[URL]http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/15/israeli-soldiers-admit-using-human-shields-clinton-urges-peace-gestures/[/URL]

The real stories are coming out about what happened when Israel invaded Gaza at the beginning of the year. 26 soldiers have come forward explaining how they used human shields and had a shoot first policy. Crazy!

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

Ha

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

I haven't really been following the news lately with exit and all...but is it true that the UK has imposed a weapons embargo on Israel and that they are boycotting their product?

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

it looks like it is true. It is only replacement parts for a gun ship. It is not like they have completely stopped.

[URL="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443820096&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull"]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443820096&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull[/URL]

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

the english and many other countries used to war that way. nothing different except a few 100 years imo.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=chloe harris;769351]the english and many other countries used to war that way. nothing different except a few 100 years imo.[/quote]

i hope your not defending them Chloe. Its rare that you hear about Israels cruelties towards the "terrorist Palestinians" when 90% of all news and media bashes and dehumanizes Palestinians. i don't know why people are such big pussies when it comes to speaking up against this ruthless regime.

THERE IS NO SUCH COUNTRY AS ISRAEL. IT IS ONLY OCCUPIED PALATINE.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=mazi;769504]

there is no such country as israel. It is only occupied palestine.[/quote]

+1

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=mazi;769504]i hope your not defending them Chloe. Its rare that you hear about Israels cruelties towards the "terrorist Palestinians" when 90% of all news and media bashes and dehumanizes Palestinians. i don't know why people are such big pussies when it comes to speaking up against this ruthless regime.

THERE IS NO SUCH COUNTRY AS ISRAEL. IT IS ONLY OCCUPIED PALATINE.[/quote]

not sure how you see that i'm defending them. i said its been done before.

any style of war goes on is stupid imo. i'm a hippy liberal treehugging socialist dickhead remember.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

you said it..

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

Lol

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=runningman;770604]you said it..[/quote]

you've never said anything worth repeating. eat a dick.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

Always amazes me how so called reports by anonymous people get some all worked up. [SIZE=4] [/SIZE][quote][B][URL="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443851732&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull"][SIZE=4]Breaking the rules[/SIZE][/URL][/B]

It is clear from its latest report that the goal of Breaking the Silence is not to bring offending soldiers to justice or even to encourage reforms in IDF policy. If these were its goals, it would include names, ranks, facts, place names and dates; it would have released a detailed report to the authorities to encourage an investigation. Without this information, it is impossible to probe the veracity of the claims.

The organization's efforts to defame Israel in the international arena are successful. Despite the precedent of previous claims made against the IDF being disproved, and without waiting for an investigation into the allegations, supposedly reputable media organizations such as the BBC choose to report them as fact. Defamation of Israel is the order of the day.

Breaking the Silence is misleading in its name and its aim. There is no silence to break. Israel is an open and democratic society that regularly criticizes its own actions, but this one-sided and shoddy report fails to stress the context of the war - a battle against Hamas terrorists hiding behind civilians and it omits names, ranks and facts about soldiers and their stories.

THE REPORT writers are keen to thank their funders, which shamefully include the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the British Embassy in Tel Aviv, Christian Aid and OXFAM, two charities which have in the past launched vitriolic anti-Israel campaigns, as well as the European Union which gave them $75,000 to "contribute to an atmosphere of human rights respect and values" and "to promote prospects for peace talks and initiatives." The EU is deceiving taxpayers if it is telling them that their money paying for this shoddy report is helping to promote peace.

If members of Breaking the Silence were sincere, they would be presenting accurate facts about terrorism, the goals expressed in the charter of Hamas, the deadly rocket fire coming from Gaza, the anti-Israel incitement and the ways the Palestinians have contributed to perpetuating the conflict and to harming the lives of ordinary Palestinian civilians. If they were sincere, they would be raising awareness about the moral dilemmas the IDF faces. But this vital context is missing from their account.

In response to this report, our organization set about filming testimonials and uploading them to a Web site called Soldiers Speak Out - a platform for Israeli soldiers to share their personal combat experiences with the world. The site, created by soldiers to share their personal experiences of serving in the IDF, contains testimonials from soldiers which contrast sharply with the reports of alleged IDF misconduct made by Breaking the Silence.

Breaking the Silence is breaking the rules for any kind of serious reporting. Its report is compiled from anonymous "testimony" from up to 30 people. In contrast, the soldiers who feature on our Web site give testimony on camera without their face blurred out and speak from their own personal experience.

The IDF has more than 700,000 citizen soldiers and reservists - thousands of whom served in Gaza in the campaign against Hamas - who try to live up to its high ethical standards. Attempting to slander an IDF campaign on the basis of the anonymous reports is ridiculous.

It is unlikely that the international media will give the Soldiers Speak Out site the kind of publicity they are currently lavishing upon Breaking the Silence. When it comes to Israel, good news is no news, but, as in previous occasions and despite those who exist to defame the IDF, the truth will out. [/quote]And now lets hear testimonies of soldiers who are prepared to be identified.

Noam, age 24, is a Law Student in Tel Aviv University. He serves as an officer in the Givati Unit. Noam speaks about the risk he and his soldiers dealt with in order to avoid any innocent casualties. Despite the intentions of the Hamas, he and his team did the best to avoid any unecessary harm.

[youtube]OE0fml4ksYA[/youtube]

[youtube]4NQFWxog9QI[/youtube]

Pinchas, age 29, is a Politcal Science student. He served in an elite IDF infantry unit and today performs almost 70 days of reserve service each year. During the operation against Hamas in Gaza, his unit was called to duty for additional service. Pinchas speaks about finding rocket launchers in a Palestinian ambulance and escorting a terrorist bomb-maker who helped the soldiers discover explosives hidden under civilian facilities such as schools and clinics.

[youtube]hxnQNTq1RAU[/youtube]

[youtube]AkD70gWldq0[/youtube]

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

Uri Avnery explains it best.

[URL]http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html[/URL]

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=day_for_night;770950]you've never said anything worth repeating. eat a dick.[/quote]

Here comes Papa Bear to the rescue..:p

Hey Dave what is the word in Israel about you guys attcking Iran? Do you think it will happen before the end of the year?

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=runningman;771055] Hey Dave what is the word in Israel about you guys attcking Iran? Do you think it will happen before the end of the year?[/quote]

Iran has its own problems right now - lets see how that plays out before you all start beating the war drums.

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well that would be the best time to attack right? Divide and conquer (or rule) is a war time saying.

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I would shoot them first too, so do you guys... Unless you want to die right? I believe Israel did what they had to do for a reason, maybe it wasnt done the cleanest way possible.

Its pretty clear that those civilians where shot because of some sort of weird behavior, i dont think soldiers will shoot people just for fun.

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[IMG]http://www.wakingewe.com/images/SUPER_SOLDIER_TSHIRT.jpg[/IMG]

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How original of you, a cartoon of an SS uniform with the Star of David - does this mean you lack any ability to actually discuss the issue???

Pathetic, really pathetic, but i guess if you have nothing of worth to actually add to the discussion we shouldn't really expect anything else from you, right? Frigging moron!

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^^ so what do you have to say about these allegations, then? I've generally been suspicious of these reports, but it seems lately that there are too many coming from different sources - even video... Most recently, it appears that they have suspended an officer from the army for something related to this kind of activity:

[URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6554487.stm[/URL]

I don't doubt that the Palestinian fighters are not great people and do a lot of bad things, but the picture is starting to emerge that Israeli forces are also certainly not always above blame for their actions.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=Miroslav;771525]^^ so what do you have to say about these allegations, then? I've generally been suspicious of these reports, but it seems lately that there are too many coming from different sources - even video... Most recently, it appears that they have suspended an officer from the army for something related to this kind of activity:

[URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6554487.stm[/URL]

I don't doubt that the Palestinian fighters are not great people and do a lot of bad things, but the picture is starting to emerge that Israeli forces are also certainly not always above blame for their actions.[/quote]

If you look at the allegations being made, they are all coming from the Breaking the Silence group - see my earlier post above, their constant allegations which are all made by un-named sources doesn't even hold up to basic standards of fact gathering.

As for your article, this was over two years and has nothing to do with Cast Lead - when ever such allegations are made and can be substantiated then those who have 'transgressed' are always dealt; but these latest claims and made by nameless faceless people unlike the countless testimonies by people who refute these claims.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[quote=davetlv;771477]How original of you, a cartoon of an SS uniform with the Star of David - does this mean you lack any ability to actually discuss the issue???

Pathetic, really pathetic, but i guess if you have nothing of worth to actually add to the discussion we shouldn't really expect anything else from you, right? Frigging moron![/quote]

lol

its actually a t-shirt...it sums up how I feel about Israels actions pretty well. The actions Israel has taken since its birth have not really differed from actions of other repressive regimes in any way. The way I see it its a 60 year old tyranny. as for the discussion...no I don't have anything to add. This being true or not I feel the same way...I think both sides of the coin are equally bad. I don't really see much difference in actions...a bunch of psychos fighting over bullshit... pretty much sums up my feelings (you being one of them). People who are unable to rise above their background and all the invented bullshit (e.g. nationality, religion, politics, sexuality, class etc) that is meant to keep us from seeing the truth... that all those things are tools of control which are essentially as relevant as you want to make them.

The only difference between the two is that Israel is legitimizing its use of force while the Palestinians don't have that option.

Re: Israeli Soldiers Use Human Shields

[QUOTE=davetlv;771542]If you look at the allegations being made, they are all coming from the Breaking the Silence group - see my earlier post above, their constant allegations which are all made by un-named sources doesn't even hold up to basic standards of fact gathering.

As for your article, this was over two years and has nothing to do with Cast Lead - when ever such allegations are made and can be substantiated then those who have 'transgressed' are always dealt; but these latest claims and made by nameless faceless people unlike the countless testimonies by people who refute these claims.[/QUOTE] oops, my bad on the article. Yeah, I see your point...perhaps it isn't credible.

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That's what you get when you let lobbying groups enter the discussion: it becomes harder to distinguish propaganda from intelligence (gathered info).

Too bad our govt is leaving political skidmarks by getting involved with such groups, but then again, they refuse to outlaw some terrorist organizations here as well.

At this point I myself am not in favour of any of the sides, I could debate the rightness of the decision to create a new country in a hostile region without contemplating alternative solutions, or I could debate which side is the bigger asshole here. Most pragmatic thing to do for everyone would be to accept the (physical/geographic) situation as-is and go fro there, but that would mean leaving history out of the equation and that is never going to happen, understandably...