Think about how brilliant it is that the protesters have adopted this as their rallying cry, as it is yelled from the rooftops every night.

First of all, up until very recently, if you ask your average westerner (myself included) what you think of when you hear "Allah O Akbar," it would probably be something along the lines of "Duck and Cover." The truth is that we've been conditioned to associate it with terrorist acts -- i.e., the last thing a terrorist yells before detonating a suicide bomb, crashing a plane into a skyscraper, etc. It is so rare that you hear that phrase used in a positive light in the west, but now, it stands for something far more positive.

Here's what makes it so smart, though -- the protesters have snatched the religious high ground, which is something that the power center of Iran's theocracy needs for legitimacy. When the government in a theocracy is seen as being on the wrong side of religion, it is destined to fail.

Just a thought, anyway.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

+1

There's only one problem with this situation: if Ahmadinejad's government and Khameini both fall, they may be replaced by some hideous group of extremist scum that may make Ahmadinejad look like a downright softie. Unfortunately, there seems to be no shortage of these kinds of nutty people in Iran's power ranks.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;762468] There's only one problem with this situation: if Ahmadinejad's government and Khameini both fall, they may be replaced by some hideous group of extremist scum that may make Ahmadinejad look like a downright softie. Unfortunately, there seems to be no shortage of these kinds of nutty people in Iran's power ranks.[/quote]

A fair point, and notwithstanding the outpouring of support for "democracy" or "freedom" in Iran, I'm well aware that those terms are relative and even if Moussavi (sp?) ends up taking over when the dust settles, it doesn't follow that Iran is suddenly going to be an ally or its people will have the same sort of freedoms that we take for granted in the states.

With that said, though, I will always have enormous respect for those that take a stand for what they believe in and a free-er Iran, with a populace that is in favor of normalizing relations with the rest of the world, is a step in the right direction.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

Umm, the only reason they are saying it is because they do not want to be seen as anti-Islamic Regime. So the people are doing it to save their neck. It basically goes everyone including Mousavi. People have sort of stopped chanting it now because it has basically become a regime change operation. The over analyisation of things...

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[QUOTE=serghe;762669] People have sort of stopped chanting it now ...[/QUOTE]

From last night:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBvIINf_eUE[/YOUTUBE]

Re: Allah O Akbar!

Allah Akhbar is the reason we got into this mess to start with. Most people are aiming for an end to Islamic Republic. Plus we do not know if that was from last night of course. It could have been the night after election etc, did see that earlier today so it could have been last night, but regardless. The main reason this is the rally cry is because I do not know if you paying attention but the govt is cracking down on basically anything anti Islamic Republic. So to shout Allah Akhbar means hey I am still Muslim, but I just do not agree with what is being done in the election, when in fact most Iranians want a chaneg of regime. So again the over analsyation and your love of Allah Akhbar changing in your eyes is nothing in reality, but people saving their ass in case a Basij sees you. Then again it doesn't really matter to a Basij what happens. My advice, stick to western politics.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=serghe;762824]Allah Akhbar is the reason we got into this mess to start with. Most people are aiming for an end to Islamic Republic. [/quote] um.. most people who are opposed to Ahmadinejad and the election results ARE Islamic; they are not necessarily in favor of ending Islamic-based government per se. And they are [I]already[/I] opposing the highest Ayatollah in the land, so it doesn't even make sense for them to be saying "Allah Akbar" to cover their asses and avoid a crackdown; the riot police are already after them. It's all just a matter of opinion based on incomplete facts, but Toasty's interpretation seems more logical to me than yours.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;762832]um.. most people who are opposed to Ahmadinejad and the election results ARE Islamic; they are not necessarily in favor of ending Islamic-based government per se. And they are [I]already[/I] opposing the highest Ayatollah in the land, so it doesn't even make sense for them to be saying "Allah Akbar" to cover their asses and avoid a crackdown; the riot police are already after them. It's all just a matter of opinion based on incomplete facts, but Toasty's interpretation seems more logical to me than yours.[/quote] Okay trust me on this on. My cousin has been arrested in Iran by these thugs for having a mobile phone.

If you speak against IR (Islamic Republic) you are basically fucked for life. Do you not see how these "Muslims" stay in power. Their tactics and human rights record speaks for itself. We do not want an ayatollah and now we must win this fight or else the next couple of years in Iran will probably be some of worst human rights atrocities ever known to man.

Yes it did start as anti-election but it has now changed to people wanting a new revolution. This time the job must be finished properly, because it wasn't last time.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=serghe;762824] So again the over analsyation and your love of Allah Akhbar changing in your eyes is nothing in reality, but people saving their ass in case a Basij sees you. Then again it doesn't really matter to a Basij what happens. My advice, stick to western politics.[/quote]

Look, as to "western politics," I don't think there's any serious argument that the phrase hasn't gotten a major facelift in this part of the world over the past few days.

As for its use in Iran, you're clearly closer to it than I, so I'll defer to your widsom, to some extent. With that said, however, you're saying that people are shouting Allah Akhbar from their rooftops in the middle of the night, under cover of darkness, to confuse the Baseji? Sorry, no sale. That just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

Look, Mousavi told them to say such things from their rooftops. Like all Iranians right now he doesn't want to seem like anti Islamic Republic in these times also. Right now people do not have a proper leader. IR won't allow for one, and Mousavi is basically the lesser of two evils. Right now all this Allah Akhbar has changed to Death to Dictator and Khamanei. People are mad at the Islamic regime. There is some politics in this you just do not understand it seems.

You are just looking into what Allah Akhbar has represented before. I guess you associate with terrorist shouting it before they do their job. All it fucking means is God is Great.
Spend one day in the mind of an IR supporter and you will then realise why they are saying Allah Akhbar.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=serghe;762858] You are just looking into what Allah Akhbar has represented before. I guess you associate with terrorist shouting it before they do their job. All it fucking means is God is Great.[/quote] um... I knew that, thanks. I don't even see how what I wrote has anything remotely to do with terrorists...?...

Re: Allah O Akbar!

@serghe

dude, I don't think we're that far apart here. Take a step back and a deep breath, read my first post and your last post, and they actually seem to be quite similar --example:

[quote=serghe;762858] You are just looking into what Allah Akhbar has represented before. I guess you associate with terrorist shouting it before they do their job.[/quote]

that is exactly right, and that was the point of the whole post -- in the eyes of westerners that are accustomed to it being the last chilling thing you hear before a terrorist act, it is a significant change to see it used in a positive light.

[quote=serghe;762858]Look, Mousavi told them to say such things from their rooftops. Like all Iranians right now he doesn't want to seem like anti Islamic Republic in these times also. Right now people do not have a proper leader. [/quote]

Again, this looks very much like my original post, which is why I referred to it as "so smart" -- as a tactic, it makes loads of sense.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

I do not see it being done a positive light unfortunately. It is sad that people have to say it to justify not being against an oppressive regime. I do agree with it being a good tactic though, so I guess we can agree on that.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

And here I was, thinking that just maybe their use of the phrase had something to do with the fact that - oh I don't know - [I]they are mainly all Muslim over there[/I] (even if they don't support Ahmadinejad's government)??

...my bad. :roll::lol:

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;762969]And here I was, thinking that just maybe their use of the phrase had something to do with the fact that - oh I don't know - [I]they are mainly all Muslim over there[/I] (even if they don't support Ahmadinejad's government)??

...my bad. :roll::lol:[/quote] Many Iranians are Muslim, no question about it, but many do not identify themselves as Muslim, but rather as Persian or Iranian more. Some, like me, do not identify themselves as Muslim at all.

Here is an example an American can understand. Okay you have red states and blue states, in the blue states there is many liberals that are not very religious of not religious at all. In red states, usually rural areas, many religious people, no? It is a bit like that in Iran. See, we are the same after all.

Your sarcasm needs work.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

ok ok... I concede that surely not every single Iranian is extremely religious. That wasn't my point. My general perception was just that religion plays a much more dominant role in nearly all aspects of society in that part of the world than it does in the Western world...hence even if people oppose the supreme Ayatollah, that doesn't mean they oppose Allah - take the clerics who are now reportedly marching alongside the protesters.

But who knows...maybe that's all wrong...

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;763002]ok ok... I concede that surely not every single Iranian is extremely religious. That wasn't my point. My general perception was just that religion plays a much more dominant role in nearly all aspects of society in that part of the world than it does in the Western world...hence even if people oppose the supreme Ayatollah, that doesn't mean they oppose Allah - take the clerics who are now reportedly marching alongside the protesters.

But who knows...maybe that's all wrong...[/quote] We will see a secular government in charge of Iran again, probably like the one you have in Turkey.

The whole goal of this is to wipe religion off the map in Iran (gotta borrow the phrase AN). You have to look at why religion is in power in Iran to honestly understand any of this. You have no idea why do you... I just suggest you stick to your American politics and whether Miss California should be burnt for thinking gays should not marry and what not.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

hehe

Why is it both Toasty and Miro seem to get in the most arguments with others in these political threads? :D:lol:

My attempt at humor.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Lorn;763170]hehe

Why is it both Toasty and Miro seem to get in the most arguments with others in these political threads? :D:lol:

My attempt at humor.[/quote]'

Well, I argue for a living, so there's that. I don't know what Miro's excuse is. :p

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=toasty;763172]'

Well, I argue for a living, so there's that. I don't know what Miro's excuse is. :p[/quote]

lol

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=serghe;763163]have no idea why do you... I just suggest you stick to your American politics and whether Miss California should be burnt for thinking gays should not marry and what not.[/quote] serghe, we don't treat heritage as a prerequisite to open debate on any topic around here. I suggest that you stick to respectfully voicing your opinions and disagreements [I]on the issues[/I] and leave the arrogant and belittling editorials aside if you wish to be taken seriously around here. We have already seen that you have plenty of opinions on America, even though you may not be from here.

[quote=toasty;763172]'

Well, I argue for a living, so there's that. I don't know what Miro's excuse is. :p[/quote] Good question....I don't really think I have a good excuse :)

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;763191]serghe, we don't treat heritage as a prerequisite to open debate on any topic around here. I suggest that you stick to respectfully voicing your opinions and disagreements [I]on the issues[/I] and leave the arrogant and belittling editorials aside if you wish to be taken seriously around here. We have already seen that you have plenty of opinions on America, even though you may not be from here. [/quote] I have an American passport in my collection, so I am entitled to an editorial of that topic.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=serghe;763445]I have an American passport in my collection, so I am entitled to an editorial of that topic.[/quote] ok. I still think it's a very silly basis on which to attempt to "regulate" open dialogue...but hey, whatever you want to think is fine; fortunately, it's not up to you anyway. I'm certainly not going to stop voicing my opinions based on your "suggestion". I guess this is where we must agree to disagree.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;763493] fortunately, it's not up to you anyway.[/quote]

Nor any of us for that matter.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

[quote=Miroslav;763493]ok. I still think it's a very silly basis on which to attempt to "regulate" open dialogue...but hey, whatever you want to think is fine; fortunately, it's not up to you anyway. I'm certainly not going to stop voicing my opinions based on your "suggestion". I guess this is where we must agree to disagree.[/quote] But I would look at American topics from a view of an American, not a tri-national.

Re: Allah O Akbar!

Good for you.. You know, I'd also love to look at Swahili issues from the view of a Swahili-speaker and Norwegian issues from the view of a Norwegian, but guess what:[I] I don't speak Swahili and I'm not Norwegian[/I]. And as far I can tell, I'm not likely to become either anytime soon. I am who I am; a Slovak who was transplanted into the USA at a relatively young age. That's the only perspective that I [I]experience[/I]. Not all of us can have a zillion passports to every nation around the world. I can do my best to sympathize with other ethnic views and perspectives, but [I]I can't be them[/I].

But that doesn't mean that I have to close my brain and only look at Miss America issues. We live in the 21st century, not the 1500s where we could afford to be isolationist and not be directly impacted by things going on on the other side of the globe. And as human beings on the same planet, we have more in common than we acknowledge.

At the end of the day, the best I can do is look at things from the perspective of an inquisitive human being who respects ethnic diversity while also keeping in mind commonalities that support basic human rights and maximize our collective well-being. Maybe that's not good enough for you, but it's good enough for me and most others that I know.

And with that, I think I'm really done with this topic... this has already crossed over into the realm of the absurd.