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these morons at columbia

17 durable postsStarted 2004-11-22Latest 2004-11-27
#6977Post 1 of 17

who has read the article in the NY daily news about all the profs who are spreading anti semetic views to theier students and threatening thier opposers.

follows and is quite interesting that these people hold these positions after doing this in front of, and to, students.

[b]starts here[/b]

In the world of Hamid Dabashi, supporters of Israel are "warmongers" and "Gestapo apparatchiks." The Jewish homeland is "nothing more than a military base for the rising predatory empire of the United States."

It's a capital of "thuggery" - a "ghastly state of racism and apartheid" - and it "must be dismantled."

A voice from America's crackpot fringe? Actually, Dabashi is a tenured professor and department chairman at Columbia University. And his views have resonated and been echoed in other areas of the university.

Columbia is at risk of becoming a poison Ivy, some critics claim, and tensions are high.

In classrooms, teach-ins, interviews and published works, dozens of academics are said to be promoting an I-hate-Israel agenda, embracing the ugliest of Arab propaganda, and teaching that Zionism is the root of all evil in the Mideast.

In three weeks of interviews, numerous students told the Daily News they face harassment, threats and ridicule merely for defending the right of Israel to survive.

And the university itself is holding investigations into the alleged intimidation.

Dabashi has achieved academic stardom: professor of Iranian studies; chairman of the Middle East and Asian languages and cultures department; past head of a panel that administers Columbia's core curriculum.

The 53-year-old, Iranian-born scholar has said CNN should be held accountable for "war crimes" for one-sided coverage of Sept. 11, 2001. He doubts the existence of Al Qaeda and questions the role of Osama Bin Laden in the attacks.

Dabashi did not return calls.

In September in the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram, he wrote, "What they call Israel is no mere military state. A subsumed militarism, a systemic mendacity with an ingrained violence constitutional to the very fusion of its fabric, has penetrated the deepest corners of what these people have to call their soul."

After the showing of a student-made documentary about faculty bias and bullying that targets Jewish students, six or seven swastikas were found carved in a Butler Library bathroom last month.

Then after a screening of the film, "Columbia Unbecoming," produced by the David Project, a pro-Israel group in Boston, one student denounced another as a "Zionist fascist scum," witnesses said.

On Oct. 27, Columbia announced it would probe alleged intimidation and improve procedures for students to file grievances.

"Is the climate hostile to free expression?" asked Alan Brinkley, the university provost. "I don't believe it is, but we're investigating to find out."

But one student on College Walk described the campus as a "republic of fear." Another branded the Middle East and Asian languages and cultures department the "department of dishonesty."

A third described how she was once "humiliated in front of an entire class."

Deena Shanker, a Mideast and Asian studies major, remains an admirer of the department. But she says she will never forget the day she asked Joseph Massad, a professor of modern Arab politics, if Israel gives warnings before bombing certain buildings so residents could flee.

"Instead of answering my question, Massad exploded," she said. "He told me if I was going to 'deny the atrocities' committed against the Palestinians, I could get out of his class."

"Professorial power is being abused," said Ariel Beery, a senior who is student president in the School of General Studies, but stresses he's speaking only for himself.

"Students are being bullied because of their identities, ideologies, religions and national origins," Beery said.

Added Noah Liben, another senior, "Debate is being stifled. Students are being silenced in their own classrooms."

Said Brinkley: If a professor taught the "Earth was flat or there was no Holocaust," Columbia might intervene in the classroom. "But we don't tell faculty they can't express strong, or even offensive opinions."

Yet even some faculty members say they fear social ostracism and career consequences if they're viewed as too pro-Israel, and that many have been cowed or shamed into silence.

One apparently unafraid is Dan Miron, a professor of Hebrew literature and holder of a prestigious endowed chair.

He said scores of Jewish students - about one a week - have trooped into his office to complain about bias in the classroom.

"Students tell me they've been browbeaten, humiliated and treated disrespectfully for daring to challenge the idea that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish nation," he said.

"They say they've been told Israeli soldiers routinely rape Palestinian women and commit other atrocities, and that Zionism is racism and the root of all evil."

One yardstick of the anti-Israel sentiment among professors, critics say, is the 106 faculty signatures on a petition last year that called for Columbia to sell its holdings in all firms that conduct business with Israel's military.

Noting that the divestment campaign compared Israel to South Africa during the apartheid era, Columbia President Lee Bollinger termed it "grotesque and offensive."

That didn't stop 12 Mideast and Asian studies professors - almost half the department - and 21 anthropology teachers from signing on, a review of the petition shows.

To identify the Columbia faculty with the most strongly anti-Israel views, The News spoke to numerous teachers and students, including some who took their courses; reviewed interviews and published works, and examined Web sites that report their public speeches and statements, including the online archives of the Columbia Spectator, the student newspaper.

Their views could be dismissed as academic fodder if they weren't so incendiary.

Columbia's firebrands

In the world of Hamid Dabashi, supporters of Israel are "warmongers" and "Gestapo apparatchiks."

The Jewish homeland is "nothing more than a military base for the rising predatory empire of the United States."

Nicholas De Genova, who teaches anthropology and Latino studies. The Chronicle of Higher Education calls him "the most hated professor in America." At an anti-war teach-in last year, he said he wished for a "million Mogadishus," referring to the slaughter of U.S. troops in Somalia in 1993.

"U.S. patriotism is inseparable from imperial warfare and white supremacy," he added.

De Genova has also said, "The heritage of the victims of the Holocaust belongs to the Palestinian people. ... Israel has no claim to the heritage of the Holocaust."

De Genova didn't return calls.

Bruce Robbins, a professor of English and comparative literature. In a speech backing divestment, he said, "The Israeli government has no right to the sufferings of the Holocaust."

Elaborating, Robbins told The News he believes Israel has a right to exist, but he thinks the country has "betrayed the memory of the Holocaust."

Joseph Massad, who is a tenure-track professor of Arab politics. Students and faculty interviewed by The News consistently claimed that the Jordanian-born Palestinian is the most controversial, and vitriolic, professor on campus. "How many Palestinians have you killed?" he allegedly asked one student, Tomy Schoenfeld, an Israeli military veteran, and then refused to answer his questions.

To Massad, CNN star Wolf Blitzer is "Ze'ev Blitzer," which is the byline Blitzer used in the 1980s, when he wrote for Hebrew papers but hasn't used since.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon can be likened to Nazi Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, he once declared.

"The Jews are not a nation," he said in one speech. "The Jewish state is a racist state that does not have a right to exist."

Massad didn't return several calls. On his Web site, he says he's a victim of a "witch hunt" by "pro-Israel groups" and their "propaganda machine."

George Saliba, a professor of Arabic and Islamic science. His classroom rants against the West are legendary, students have claimed. One student says his "Islam & Western Science" class could be called "Why the West is Evil." Another writes that his "Intro to Islamic Civilization" often serves as a forum to "rail against evil America."

A recent graduate, Lindsay Shrier, said Saliba told her, "You have no claim to the land of Israel ... no voice in this debate. You have green eyes, you're not a true Semite. I have brown eyes, I'm a true Semite."

Saliba did not return calls.

Rashid Khalidi, who is the Edward Said professor of Arab studies. He's the academic heir to the late Said, a professor who famously threw a stone from Lebanon at an Israeli guard booth. Columbia initially refused to say how the chair was funded. But The United Arab Emirates, which denies the Holocaust on state TV channels, is reported to have provided $200,000.

When Palestinians in a Ramallah police station lynched two Israeli reservists in 2000 - throwing one body out a window and proudly displaying bloodstained hands - the professor attacked the media, not the killers.

He complained about "inflammatory headlines" in a Chicago Sun-Times story and called the paper's then-owner, Conrad Black, who also owned the Jerusalem Post, "the most extreme Zionist in public life."

Reached at Columbia, Khalidi declined to comment on specifics.

"As somebody who has a body of work, written six books and won many awards, the only fair thing to do is look at the entire body of work, not take quotes out of context," he said.

Lila Abu-Lughod, a professor of anthropology, romanticizes Birzeit University in the West Bank as a "liberal arts college dedicated to teaching and research in the same spirit as U.S. colleges." But it is well-established that Birzeit also is the campus where Hamas openly recruits suicide bombers, stone-throwers and gunmen.

As in her published works, Abu-Lughod gave a carefully nuanced response when reached Friday by The News:

"The CIA has historically recruited at Columbia, but that's not the mission of Columbia. The mission of Birzeit is to educate students, and they're working under very difficult circumstances to do that."

Originally published on November 21, 2004[b][/b]

#305413Post 2 of 17

anyone knwo what tuition is nowadays for columbia.....$31,472 PER SEMESTER.

DOUBLE THAT then add in whatever summer/winter classes you take.

#305416Post 3 of 17

This is happening throughout the schools in California as well. Sick.

#305760Post 4 of 17

i think that palestinians and israelits has comitted atrocities. we dont have to look for who was the first to do harm, because violence is like a snow ball, it grows and grows and grows...and that is what is happening. to stop that problems i think that bopth sides have to talk and negotiate. sounds easy isn?t? but is not

#305770Post 5 of 17

Marimba, that style of logic is so last year. You're not over that yet? Ask any jew in Israel why life is so much better as opposed to a couple years ago and any of them will tell you why. Two reasons. Fighting the fascist terrorists and the wall. Where are the bus bombs? Violence is not like a snowball at all times. War brings peace.

Doesn't that mean something is working?

#306350Post 6 of 17

Marimba didn't put the blame on the Israelites, did he now?

He was merely pointing out that the will for peace must be there on both sides. Hamas fighters are still using RPG's I think, and mortars. And Israel strikes back with their rockets and gunships.

There's so many Israelites and Palestinians that want to live in peace, unfortunately also a part on both sides that will only be satisfied when they see the last one from the other side of the wall dead.

War can only impose peace, and in that case I wouldn't call it peace but a forced cease-fire. It;s not taking away any of the reasons for the conflict in the first place, merely combatting symptoms.

Professors and teachers letting themselves go like that instead of teaching their pupils to try and develop an objective view...at my university they'd get kicked out. Haven't there been any complaints with the school board or anything alike?

#306383Post 7 of 17

Oh there is soooooo much to say here, but i dont have the time right now, but i will after work!

But please, it's not Israelites its Israelis.

#306403Post 8 of 17

Haha, sorry for misspelling that!

I'll be seeing your comments later then...

#306433Post 9 of 17

Re: these morons at columbia

davetlv, in an honest way as possible, PM me please. i would like to ask you a question. :?: :arrow:

#306607Post 10 of 17

Re: these morons at columbia

I've been deliberating how best to respond to this; either I could have discussed both the issues raised in the initial post by thesightless or I could focus on the comments made by Marimba and Yao.

I've opted for the latter, only on the belief that all rational reader will see that the initial article is nothing more then the idiotic ramblings of so-called academics who not only do themselves but also their academic disciplines a disservice.

Marimba. You are correct. Both sides have committed atrocities in the name of an ideology we have both been fighting for. Your analogy of the snowball is great; it actually sums up the situation very well. (Sorry to disagree with you here cosmo!) I think it would also be right to not reflect on what did or didn?t happen after the mandate in 1917 because we can all read history in a way that suits our own political agendas.

You're also right about both sides having to talk and negotiate. However the reality has been that one side has constantly removed itself from all negotiations in trying to formalise a just and peaceful settlement for both sides.

I believe that the main stumbling block here was Arafat - or maybe I want to believe this because I need to continue believing that there is Palestinian leadership out there that genuinely wants a peaceful settlement. With Arafat now out of the equation Israel is placing two demands on the PA leadership for it to agree to return to the negotiation table.

  1. The dismantling of the terrorist infrastructure that is rife in the PA.
  2. The reform of an education system that teaches hate.

I'm sure all of us here can agree that these two demands are fair!

Yao. Tell me how do you expect a sovereign state to fight terrorism from within? Let?s say on the streets of Amsterdam 1000 people come towards you with guns and Molotov cocktails. What would your government do? Sit by idly and allow them to shoot every one in sight? Would they say to the police, or military, fight them with old guns and Molotov cocktails? Would they f*ck! They would use whatever means at their disposal. Be it armoured carriers, tanks and if necessary helicopters. When you face a crowd of people who have been brainwashed into believing that by dying in the fight they become martyrs and are welcomed into the kingdom of heaven by 70 virgins, you?re fighting against a group of people who want to die!

You can?t condemn Israel for using its military might in trying to safeguard its citizens. Have you seen a bus blow up in front of you? Have you sat for hours by the phone after hearing that your friends were in a hotel that got bombed on the eve of a festival? Have you ever considered that when you go to a club instead of getting high on ?e? you get blown up by so called martyrs? Bet you haven?t.

And let?s say all this happened in Amsterdam. What would you want your government to do? Would you want them to take no action, or action in ensuring that it will never happen again?

How many Israeli?s strap body belts to themselves and blow themselves up outside cafes in Jenin, Hebron or Bethlehem? Where in the Israeli school system do we teach hatred of Palestinians? Show me examples of where our teachers preach the eradication of Palestinians?

There is only one solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians - two independent sovereign states; and you know what, they don?t even have to live in peace next to each other (that will take generations), but they do have to accept each others right of existence.

I?m done!

#306776Post 11 of 17

Re: these morons at columbia

[quote=davetlv]Marimba. You are correct. Both sides have committed atrocities in the name of an ideology we have both been fighting for. Your analogy of the snowball is great; it actually sums up the situation very well. (Sorry to disagree with you here cosmo!) I think it would also be right to not reflect on what did or didn?t happen after the mandate in 1917 because we can all read history in a way that suits our own political agendas.[/quote]

Could you tell me some more about that mandate? I'm really trying to read myself into the situation out there now, so any information is welcome. I'll do a search myself, too.

[quote=davetlv]I believe that the main stumbling block here was Arafat - or maybe I want to believe this because I need to continue believing that there is Palestinian leadership out there that genuinely wants a peaceful settlement. With Arafat now out of the equation Israel is placing two demands on the PA leadership for it to agree to return to the negotiation table.

  1. The dismantling of the terrorist infrastructure that is rife in the PA.
  2. The reform of an education system that teaches hate.

I'm sure all of us here can agree that these two demands are fair![/quote]

Whatever our disagreements are, I agree with this to the fullest!

[quote=davetlv]Yao. Tell me how do you expect a sovereign state to fight terrorism from within? Let?s say on the streets of Amsterdam 1000 people come towards you with guns and Molotov cocktails. What would your government do? Sit by idly and allow them to shoot every one in sight? Would they say to the police, or military, fight them with old guns and Molotov cocktails? Would they f*ck! They would use whatever means at their disposal. Be it armoured carriers, tanks and if necessary helicopters. When you face a crowd of people who have been brainwashed into believing that by dying in the fight they become martyrs and are welcomed into the kingdom of heaven by 70 virgins, you?re fighting against a group of people who want to die!

You can?t condemn Israel for using its military might in trying to safeguard its citizens. Have you seen a bus blow up in front of you? Have you sat for hours by the phone after hearing that your friends were in a hotel that got bombed on the eve of a festival? Have you ever considered that when you go to a club instead of getting high on ?e? you get blown up by so called martyrs? Bet you haven?t.[/quote]

No I haven't. But does that exclude me from participating in a discussion about this? My plans for the future will involve seeing atrocities being committed, and seeing the consequences of people hating each other so much they would give their life to kill their opponent. I'll never be ready for my first experience. Never. But I'll have to go through that in order to be able to know what you and millions of other people feel everyday. Dave, you dissapoint me by thinking I am not considering the human emotions that play a big role in this conflict. I thought I had already proven different.

And I will not condemn Israel for using the military equipment at it's disposal, I was merely pointing out that that the wall did not cease all hostilities between Isreali's and Palestinians. That's it.

[quote=davetlv]And let?s say all this happened in Amsterdam. What would you want your government to do? Would you want them to take no action, or action in ensuring that it will never happen again?

How many Israeli?s strap body belts to themselves and blow themselves up outside cafes in Jenin, Hebron or Bethlehem? Where in the Israeli school system do we teach hatred of Palestinians? Show me examples of where our teachers preach the eradication of Palestinians?[/quote]

Hell yeah I would want my government to protect me, of course! But I definitely would want them to search for a long-term solution, to give me the prospect of a future in peace. Israel has already shown it's willing to do so, and I hope the new PA leaders will have the same attitude.

[quote=davetlv]There is only one solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians - two independent sovereign states; and you know what, they don?t even have to live in peace next to each other (that will take generations), but they do have to accept each others right of existence.

I?m done![/quote]

That is the best remark I've heard in times about that situation.

Don't be done with me, I'm not lost beyond all hopes, am I? :wink:

#306986Post 12 of 17

Re: these morons at columbia

[quote=Yao]Could you tell me some more about that mandate? I'm really trying to read myself into the situation out there now, so any information is welcome. I'll do a search myself, too. [/quote]

There is so much info out there about the history of the region.

The then British Foreign Secretary issued the following statement:

[quote= ]Foreign Office 2nd November 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild: I have much pleasure in conveying to you on behalf of His Majesty's Government the following declaration of our sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely Arthur James Balfour [/quote]

In 1920, the Balfour Declaration was included in the San Remo Agreement of 1920 and then from July 24, 1922, the declaration was included into the mandate from which Britain temporarily administered Palestine. However, with the White Paper of 1939, the Zionist friendly attitude of the Balfour Declaration was suspended.

I think it best here if i lead you to two different website where you can explore what happened from both sides!

[url]http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/[/url]

[url]http://www.palestineremembered.com/[/url]

[quote=Yao]And I will not condemn Israel for using the military equipment at it's disposal, I was merely pointing out that that the wall did not cease all hostilities between Isreali's and Palestinians. That's it. [/quote] I'm please you mentioned the wall. There is one thing you need to keep in mind. [b]The wall is not finished[/b], i believe that only about 50% has been completed. The parts where the wall is in place there are no infiltrations from the West Bank. All recent homicide attacks have come through parts of the territories that are not walled.

BTW, my comment about being done - not aimed at you, aimed at writting! I love discussing this stuff! :twisted:

#307078Post 13 of 17

Allrighty then!

The links are very helpful, thanks for those. It's a huge pile of info, but I'll try to work it through.

Actually, I'm working on a website which should monitor 'hot' conflicts around the globe, and since this is again really hot, I'd like to add a section about this thing. Can I interest you in helping me out with that?

About the wall...I forgot that it's not finished yet. But as far as I know there is still confusion about wether it's going to be finished or not, I believe not every Israelian party was really happy with it, is that right?

#307154Post 14 of 17

The Wall is causing some level of controversy at home, not so much about the idea of it per se, more about the route! Some people believe it should be built along the green line while others favour the route it is taking.

As you will no doubt remember the International Court gave an advisory ruling about the wall, and even though that ruling was flawed on so many levels, the points it raised must be looked at.

I'm in favour of the wall. More then that, as you might have worked out from a previous post, i'm in favour of complete seperation. Even though i don't believe the existing route is a land grab i do believe it is a monumental waste of money especially as some the land it is on will have to be given over to the PA.

As for you website, sure!

#307165Post 15 of 17

Thnx mate, I'll pm you on the site from here...

Are infavour of the wall because it keeps you safe while a longer lasting, more permanent and less intrusive solution is sought, or do you really see the wall as the only solution in the end?

I mean, even though I'm not in favour of that wall being built, I do see the advantages of it in the short run. But it can't keep you safe forever, and more: this should not the way people live side by side...in fact it is surrendering to despair in a sense IMO. (writing that I think: Well...who wouldn't be desperate after so may decades of fighting and still no solution? Doesn't this conflict go to deep? I don't know...)

#307277Post 16 of 17

I think the wall is a short term measure, although short term in this region is a couple of generations.

From where i stand today i think the only solution, short term, is complete seperation. Pull out all the Jews from the West Bank and Gaza, complete building the wall along the yet to be negotiated boarders of an independent Palestinian State,.

In many ways you have answered the question you asked me yourself. After nearly 40 years of violence the only way each side can get some perspective is by seperation. In an ideal world no country should have boarders, but we're not living in an ideal world yet!

As for surrendering to depair, both sides did this years ago. Realistically we can not go on killing each other for much longer. Enough blood, on all sides, has been shed since the creation of the State of Israel. The only solution is complete physical, financial and political seperation.

#307454Post 17 of 17

^^^^ Didn't we get a bit off topic, here? :wink:

As for the professor at Columbia, what can I say. It's disgusting. It's OK to have your own views of any matter, but to enforce them on others? :x Especially in a position like this... I thought acts of racism were illegal in the US.

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