[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=chloe harris;741412]would you bow in japan since its custom speciale?[/quote]
in that case it is different since they bow back which represents a handshake type gesture. But the Saudi King didnt bow back. Ok, so there are times I will bow to someone :lol: +1
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=speciale;741349]Plus some of thepeople being tortured planned the attack that killed 3000 Americans. They deserve to die, not be tortured. [/quote]
Agreed. So why not try them in a military tribunal, convict them, and put them to death? Permitting the pre-conviction waterboarding allows the torturer to play the role of judge, jury, and (practically) executioner before there's even been a finding of guilt.
Do you realize we waterboarded Kahlid Sheik Mohammed 183 times, in part to try to get information from him confirming the non-existent link between Al Qaeda and Iraq? He might be a bad example, because as a confessed matermind of the 9/11 attacks, there's a part of me that is completely OK with letting pretty much anything happen to him, but pretend that he wasn't for a moment. We had this pre-conceived idea that Iraq and Al Qaeda were connected, and waterboarded someone 183 times to try to prove it. That is obscene. Who else did we do this to that wasn't involved in 9/11?
Torture apologists often talk about the great intel we got from KSM as a result of the waterboarding. Well, when exactly did we get that? Did we get it the first time he was waterboarded? If so, why do it the other 182 times? Or did he withstand 182 waterboarding sessions only to finally relent on number 183? Sorry, no sale there.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=toasty;741555]Agreed. So why not try them in a military tribunal, convict them, and put them to death? Permitting the pre-conviction waterboarding allows the torturer to play the role of judge, jury, and (practically) executioner before there's even been a finding of guilt.
Do you realize we waterboarded Kahlid Sheik Mohammed 183 times, in part to try to get information from him confirming the non-existent link between Al Qaeda and Iraq? He might be a bad example, because as a confessed matermind of the 9/11 attacks, there's a part of me that is completely OK with letting pretty much anything happen to him, but pretend that he wasn't for a moment. We had this pre-conceived idea that Iraq and Al Qaeda were connected, and waterboarded someone 183 times to try to prove it. That is obscene. Who else did we do this to that wasn't involved in 9/11?
Torture apologists often talk about the great intel we got from KSM as a result of the waterboarding. Well, when exactly did we get that? Did we get it the first time he was waterboarded? If so, why do it the other 182 times? Or did he withstand 182 waterboarding sessions only to finally relent on number 183? Sorry, no sale there.[/quote]
This thread is so off topic looking at the title. :roll:
If someone was threating or kidnapped your family, and you had someone you knew had information on it, what would you do? would you try them in court and then put them to death? Or would you try to force information out of them? I would try to force the information out. But that is what I would do. :twisted:
The bush administration had way to many leaks because I do not believe for a second that this is the first time we tortured someone for intel. I am sure we have done it for many years. Our government just did a better job of conceealing it back then.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=speciale;741558] If someone was threating or kidnapped your family, [B]and you had someone you knew had information on it[/B], what would you do? [/quote]
The part in bold is the key. Of course I'd want to do something to try to extract that information, but who gets to make the determination that this person does, [B]in fact[/B], have the information we're seeking? We waterboarded KSM 183 times to try to get him to confess to an Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Not surprisingly, he didn't break, because there wasn't any intel on a link to provide -- or maybe he did provide some "intel" to get the wateboarding to stop, and we went plunging headfirst into the worst foreign policy plunder in our nation's history on bad intel. I don't feel a lot of sorrow for the guy, but the point is that someone "knew" that he had info on it and tortured him to get it -- we might think that he deserved it for other reasons, but right here, we have a high profile situation of a guy being tortured to provide information he did not have.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=toasty;741562]The part in bold is the key. Of course I'd want to do something to try to extract that information, but who gets to make the determination that this person does, [B]in fact[/B], have the information we're seeking? We waterboarded KSM 183 times to try to get him to confess to an Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Not surprisingly, he didn't break, because there wasn't any intel on a link to provide -- or maybe he did provide some "intel" to get the wateboarding to stop, and we went plunging headfirst into the worst foreign policy plunder in our nation's history on bad intel. I don't feel a lot of sorrow for the guy, but the point is that someone "knew" that he had info on it and tortured him to get it -- we might think that he deserved it for other reasons, but right here, we have a high profile situation of a guy being tortured to provide information he did not have.[/quote]
unfortunately we will never know what other information he had or didnt have aside from the non-existent link to Iraq. Some people are strong and can really keep quiet.
Re: obama approval rating...
^^ which is why you gotta torture them even MORE! whee :)
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=Miroslav;741569]^^ which is why you gotta torture them even MORE! whee :)[/quote]
Glub Glub
[IMG]http://www.geraldbrennan.com/Blog/water_boarding.gif[/IMG]
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=MJDub;741404]Actually they we're dropped out of B-29's. B-2's are these beastly things:
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/US_Air_Force_B-2_Spirit.jpg/800px-US_Air_Force_B-2_Spirit.jpg[/IMG]
Just sayin'. ;)[/quote]
der....brain fart.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=day_for_night;741591]der....brain fart.[/quote]
careful, do that again and MJDUB will waterboard your ass :lol:
Re: obama approval rating...
yet again Miro and DFN are completely off their rockers.
Miro
Bowing is Protocol?!??? The hell it is. Sometimes I feel like I am living on a different planet when I read stupid comments like that. Why is it always about being Macho because you don't want to bow to someone?? So if your boss comes in tomorrow and says that you should bow to him you are saying you would?? That is what I am hearing.
DFN
Wow where to start with you. You have no way of knowing if reaching out to Iran or Cuba is a good idea. The only reason they are reaching out is because Israel is getting ready to bomb it. It is just a politics game to tell the american people that "hey we reached out to them but now they are fighting Israel so we must as well."
Apologizing to the rest of world because of the Bush years... Any president would have done that because it was the popular thing to do. And still is mind you.
You forgot to leave out that the troops aren't coming home from Iraq they are just going to Afghanistan to start another mess.
The dollar dropping in value is good?? No silly hyperinlation is next because they are inflating the currency.
God you very naive my friend and have a lot to learn in this world.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=runningman;742339]yet again Miro and DFN are completely off their rockers.
Miro
Bowing is Protocol?!??? The hell it is. Sometimes I feel like I am living on a different planet when I read stupid comments like that. Why is it always about being Macho because you don't want to bow to someone?? So if your boss comes in tomorrow and says that you should bow to him you are saying you would?? That is what I am hearing.
DFN
Wow where to start with you. You have no way of knowing if reaching out to Iran or Cuba is a good idea. The only reason they are reaching out is because Israel is getting ready to bomb it. It is just a politics game to tell the american people that "hey we reached out to them but now they are fighting Israel so we must as well."
Apologizing to the rest of world because of the Bush years... Any president would have done that because it was the popular thing to do. And still is mind you.
You forgot to leave out that the troops aren't coming home from Iraq they are just going to Afghanistan to start another mess.
The dollar dropping in value is good?? No silly hyperinlation is next because they are inflating the currency.
God you very naive my friend and have a lot to learn in this world.[/quote]
:roflmao:
Re: obama approval rating...
^runningman, who in your life speaks to you the way you are speaking in the above quote? Wife, Mom, Friend, Boss? They are wrong.
Re: obama approval rating...
[QUOTE=runningman;742339]yet again Miro and DFN are completely off their rockers.
Miro
Bowing is Protocol?!??? The hell it is. Sometimes I feel like I am living on a different planet when I read stupid comments like that. Why is it always about being Macho because you don't want to bow to someone?? So if your boss comes in tomorrow and says that you should bow to him you are saying you would?? That is what I am hearing.[/QUOTE] runningman, perhaps you have been living under a rock (or on another planet) and need to join the 21st century
in your particular culture, bowing is not protocol. [B]In other cultures, [U]it very much is protocol[/U]. If you do business or engage in social interactions in Japan or Korea, [U]bowing is still alive as a custom there today, as it has been for hundreds of years. This isn't my opinion; it is FACT.[/U][/B]
You know, this may come as a shock to you, but [B]not all cultures are [I]exactly[/I] like yours[/B]. If you travel out of your country with that kind of an attitude, then foreign people will rightly view you as an arrogant, close-minded Western prick.
Go and get some cultural perspective and education before you come on here yapping your closed-minded shit at me - you and speciale both. :roll::lol:
Your education starts here:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowing_(social[/url]) [quote]Bows are the traditional greeting in East Asia, more so in Korea and Japan than anywhere else. However, bowing is not reserved only for greetings. Bowing is a gesture of respect. Different bows are used for apologies and gratitude, to express different emotions, humility, sincerity, remorse, or deference, and in various traditional arts and religious ceremonies.[/quote]
[url]http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2000.html[/url] [url]http://www.ehow.com/how_2128081_politely-bow-japan.html[/url] [url]http://gojapan.about.com/cs/etiquetteinjapan/a/bowing.htm[/url]
Re: obama approval rating...
we aren't talking about japan we are talking about Saudi Arabia. They don't all bow to each other. They bow to the King. Obama didn't bow to the Queen of England. Also it wasn't a bow it was a grovel from the hips. A bow is a head knod.
Florida it was a return for rhetoric like this from DFN
"so get your head out of your ass. i'm tired of moronic posting in here..."
Grovel
[IMG]http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:0H_N5QOb1MjLyM:http://www.hiptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/obama-bow.jpg[/IMG]
I thought it was stupid to bow. It was even more stupid to deny you bowed when a pic was taken. What are we fools??
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=floridaorange;742353]^runningman, who in your life speaks to you the way you are speaking in the above quote? Wife, Mom, Friend, Boss? They are wrong.[/quote]
honestly, where is he wrong? not trying to start trouble, but what exactly did he say was wrong?
To everyone else on the bowing the Saudi Arabia. Some of us said, he should have not bowed to them. Others responded that it is the proper courtesy. However, the White House publicly stated, Obama did not bow. So I guess he is not as courteous or respectful to other countries customs. We all know, he did bow. So why later come out to deny it in a public statement? The guy is a magician who doesnt hide his secrets when performing his tricks.
Re: obama approval rating...
^^ OK, maybe he shouldn't have bowed in Saudi Arabia. Yes, Saudi Arabia does not incorporate bowing into their culture the way that East Asian cultures do. And yes, Obama obviously did a little bow; he was probably trying to be polite and behave in the right way in a situation with which he wasn't familiar. And no, technically he didn't need to do that and if he could do it over again, he probably shouldn't.
But really at the end of the day... who gives a flying fuck?
It's not like he grabbed his balls and sucked his dick. It's not like he gave the Saudis the original copy of the Constitution to use as toilet paper. It's not like he gave away the secret recipe to the Colonel's chicken. It's not like the price of oil shot up 200% because of it. It's not like it worsened the recession and led to global instability. It's not like he started a war over it. It was just an awkward, silly, uncalled for gesture. Bush Sr. fucking [I]barfed all over [/I]the Japanese prime minister at dinner back when he was president, and nobody started up impeachment proceedings over it.
Some people are all ready to blow a gasket and stab themselves in the eye over it... not to mention all the John Wayne generalizations of "I'M too proud and good to every bow anywhere, anytime, blah blah." Please. Cut the bullshit already.
It just. doesn't. fucking. matter. US reputation was certainly not damaged like it has been under the last eight years of shit failed policy, and national security was not compromised. I know that some of you on here feel that you must always disagree with everything / everyone that doesn't tow your rigid party line ideology, but can we find some more substantive things to critique? If Bush had done this, I wouldn't even have cared. Next time we'll be arguing about how he tied his fucking shoelaces in France...ridiculous.
Re: obama approval rating...
[QUOTE=runningman;742356] Florida it was a return for rhetoric like this from DFN [/QUOTE]
I appreciate that...doesn't matter.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=Miroslav;742514] It's not like he grabbed his balls and sucked his dick. It's not like he gave the Saudis the original copy of the Constitution to use as toilet paper. It's not like he gave away the secret recipe to the Colonel's chicken. .[/quote]
:lol:
Re: obama approval rating...
Miro why is it when you have to get tough it is always John Wayne and macho men. Sometimes you have to be tough. Not sure when you would be the tough guy because you seem so paranoid about tough guys.
Were you picked on as a kid.. I`m just sayin.
Re: obama approval rating...
[QUOTE=runningman;743386]Miro why is it when you have to get tough it is always John Wayne and macho men. Sometimes you have to be tough. Not sure when you would be the tough guy because you seem so paranoid about tough guys.
Were you picked on as a kid.. I`m just sayin.[/QUOTE] No, and I'm no tough guy. My whole point is that playing the role of the tough guy is generally stupid. Most people I have known and seen who have presented themselves as tough guys are fairly dimwitted, pretentious meatheads. So none for me, thanks.
Re: obama approval rating...
[quote=Miroslav;743398]No, and I'm no tough guy. My whole point is that playing the role of the tough guy is generally stupid. Most people I have known and seen who have presented themselves as tough guys are fairly dimwitted, pretentious meatheads. So none for me, thanks.[/quote]
you dont have to be tough guy to show you are better or disagree with the other person. Some what, you need arrogance. Something which Obama has but fails to show it to other leaders. similar to speaking with a ceo of a good size company. Doesnt matter, the guy like bush had very little experience when taking office. Mistakes like this will happen.
anyways, the fucker is past day 100. this thread should die. :evil:
Re: obama approval rating...
Obama bows to the same man that Bush kissed...ohhh boi
Re: obama approval rating...
[QUOTE=speciale;743865] anyways, the fucker is past day 100. this thread should die. :evil:[/QUOTE]
[I]NO THREAD FOR YOU![/I] :shock::lol:
Re: obama approval rating...
The president is only a puppet for society. It wouldn't have mattered if McCain was in office, I believe it'd be the same....
Re: obama approval rating...
Approval ratings in for June and Obama keeps dropping. Decent numbers still, but going down fast. I think the health care plan may be more than he can handle right now. It's a really large and complex problem.
Re: obama approval rating...
It might be better to tackle them all at once so that there can't be enough media coverage on all of them considering they are all "un-american"