I must say that I am sick to death of the Liberal media portraying concerned Americans that are both from the left and right as "right wing cranks." Blaming Fox and millionaires for these tea parties. Is there something wrong with being rich?? That is communist talk.

There are a lot of millionaires in the US that did it honeslty. They aren't all attached to Goldman Sachs, AIG and the treasury department. I have to voice out on this because the "land of the free" is under marxist attack that has never been seen before in North America. Now I am neither Conserv or Lib as you all know I was very harsh on Bush but the Obama media is on the verge of starting a civil war between the parties. The idea that US citizens are "sore losers" becasue Obama won and now "eat our new taxes and like it" is absurd.

With gun sales at an all time high friction between these two parties could be the gas and fire mixture that the US hasn't seen since 1861. Obama vowed to cross the bi partisan line and work together yet I have never seen the parties as seperated as I do today. They are more divided now then when Bush was president.

Had to get this off my chest. But to tax a nation is to destroy it. The home of the brave must realize that their goverment can't wipe their ass for them and that the private sector must go out and fix the problems that was caused from the housing crisis that was started under Clinton. Innovation must drive the world economies not goverment regulators telling us what is best and telling us what to buy. That is China talk.

[URL]http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/15/begala.taxes/index.html[/URL]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;736173] sick to death of the Liberal media portraying concerned Americans that are both from the left and right as "right wing cranks."

But to tax a nation is to destroy it.

[/quote]

nice vindicating outcry man. /applauds

fuck most tax laws, and people insulating themselves and coercing others, with their sophistry.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[QUOTE=runningman;736173]Blaming Fox and millionaires for these tea parties.[/QUOTE]

FWIW, I don't know that anyone is "blaming" Fox for the tea parties -- to the contrary, Fox is going out of its way to claim credit for and be part of the tea party movement. If Fox is being linked to these events, it has no one to blame but itself.

I don't know that anyone is "blaming" millionaires, either. With that said, though, it is kinda funny to see all of these folks out there protesting tax increases, when only a very small percentage would be facing a tax increase under Obama's proposal (yes, still just a proposal -- taxes paid today are still Bush-era taxes) at all, and as a matter of fact, Obama is catching some flack from the left for possibly stepping back from his promise to roll back the tax cuts for the wealthy to Clinton-era levels. The people that are out there protesting the increase in government spending might have a point (of course, they might have a better point if they had been this upset when Bush was spending money like mad, too), but 99% of the people out there protesting tax increases are idiots that have no idea what they are doing.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

fair tax, plz

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

they are protesting the bailouts that will lead to higher taxes silly. That CNN link I posted was a [COLOR=Red]democrat strategist [/COLOR]for CNN saying that this tea party movement was sponsored by [COLOR=SeaGreen]millionaire[/COLOR]s and Fox. Look how he crafts the report. First he talks about sacrifice to make you think he understands it and then he goes into his arguments. I am also disappointed in how he calls patriots government payroll people (Fire, Police, Army, Teachers) What the rest aren't Patriots?? You know why he brings this up?? Because Obama's spending plan targets those people the most. He is looking for those backers since they rely on the gov't for their bread--Sickening.

The moral of the story is that more guns and more tension will lead to horrific things.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[IMG]http://wichitaliberty.org/files/stimulus-audacity-dopes-wichita-tea-party-2009-02-27.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[QUOTE=runningman;736244]they are protesting the bailouts that will lead to higher taxes silly. That CNN link I posted was a [COLOR=Red]democrat strategist [/COLOR]for CNN saying that this tea party movement was sponsored by [COLOR=SeaGreen]millionaire[/COLOR]s and Fox. Look how he crafts the report. First he talks about sacrifice to make you think he understands it and then he goes into his arguments. I am also disappointed in how he calls patriots government payroll people (Fire, Police, Army, Teachers) What the rest aren't Patriots?? You know why he brings this up?? Because Obama's spending plan targets those people the most. He is looking for those backers since they rely on the gov't for their bread--Sickening.

The moral of the story is that more guns and more tension will lead to horrific things.[/QUOTE]

Democratic strategist or not, I don't think there is any dispute that Fox is pushing this -- they are [I]proudly[/I] pushing it, in fact -- or that the tax day tea party campaign is being funded by the wealthy. Not that it matters, but you're phrasing it as if neither of those things are accurate, when they unquestionably are...

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

by pushing do you mean reporting it??? ABC just came out and said that Obama doesn't even know about the tea parties.

You mean wealthy support like when a young black man has a dream to be president and gets ONLY positive press for two years. So good of press that white people were seen across the globe crying because we elected a black man?? You mean that kind of reporting??

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;736287]by pushing do you mean reporting it???[/quote]

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=White]There is reporting, and then there is cheerleading. Into which category do you think the following falls?[/COLOR]

[/FONT][/COLOR][quote][B]Welcome to FOXNews' Anti-Tax Tea Party Coverage[/B]

[B]Anti-tax tea parties are taking America by storm and FOX News is taking notice. 

[/B]

Just as 18th century decrees by the British drew outrage from American colonists, several acts of modern U.S. government intervention have stirred similar upheaval by taxpayers across the land.

FOX News will have all the details leading right up to April 15 tax day -- from links to tea parties in you area to live reports from the scenes, analyses from the FOX Forum and FOXNews.com's own series on the tea party phenomenon.

FOXNews.com will also carry live video streams from several Tea Party locations, and will have reporters on hand in Indianapolis, Tulsa, Washington, D.C., San Antonio, Sacramento, Atlanta, Boston and New York.

[URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:siteStreamFlashPlayer%28%274%27%29"][B]Nationwide Tea Party Protests[/B]: WATCH LIVE[/URL] [URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:siteStreamFlashPlayer%28%274%27%29"] [/URL] [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513885,00.html"]Click here to check out all the tax day on-air coverage[/URL].

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/14/tea-party-protestors-gird-possible-backlash"]Click here[/URL] to read about the possible counter-protests by ACORN and other groups to the tax day tea parties.

Also [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/11/organizers-recipe-effective-tea-parties"]click here[/URL] to read about maximizing the message of tea party organizers.

And [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/08/tea-party-protests-create-online-sales-boom"]click here[/URL] to read about the online sales boom associated with the tea parties.

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/09/tax-day-tea-party-protests-garner-support-repulican-lawmakers"]Click here[/URL] to read about congressional members who are sitting on the sidelines while the grassroots take seed.

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/13/pub-moveon"]Click here[/URL] to read about the rise in influence of the tea partiers through Web based communications.

And c[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/09/modern-tea-parties-chance-to-scream"]lick here[/URL] to read FOXNews.com's first in the series: Nobody so far is dressing up like Mohawk Indians and throwing barrels of Darjeeling into Boston Harbor, organizers draw their inspiration from the original Boston Tea Party of 1773.

Click the link to read the FOX Forum: [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/14/avlon_tea_party_acorn/"]Just Partisans Letting Off Steam?[/URL] [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/14/avlon_tea_party_acorn/"] [/URL] Click the link to read the FOX Forum: [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/09/tantaros_tea_party/"]Tea Parties Will Bring America's Outrage to a Full Boil[/URL].

Click the link to read the FOX Forum: [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/08/roff_tea_parties-2/"]Tea Party Movement Has A Lot in Common With the Sons of Liberty[/URL].

Click the link to read the FOX Forum: [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/10/gainor_tea_party-3/"]The Tea Party Revolution...Brought to You By Twitter[/URL].

Click the link to read the FOX Forum: [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/11/tantillo_tea_party/"]Tea Party to Be the Fad That Flopped?[/URL] [URL="http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/11/tantillo_tea_party/"] [/URL] The following is a list of 38 lawmakers expected to participate in at least one anti-tax tea party, according to the Republican Study Committee: Reps. Robert Aderholt of Alabama; John Shadegg of Arizona; George Radanovich of California; Doug Lamborn of Colorado; Jeff Miller and Tom Rooney of Florida; Jack Kingston and Paul Broun of Georgia; Dan Burton of Indiana; Todd Tiahrt of Kansas; John Fleming and Steve Scalise of Louisiana; Michele Bachmann of Minnesota; Blaine Luetkemeyer of Missouri; Scott Garrett of New Jersey; Sue Myrick and Patrick McHenry of North Carolina; Jean Schmidt, Jim Jordan and Robert Latta of Ohio; Mary Fallin and John Sullivan of Oklahoma; Joe Pitts of Pennsylvania; J. Gresham Barrett of South Carolina; Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee; Joe Barton, Kevin Brady, John Culberson, Louie Gohmert, Jeb Hensarling, Sam Johnson, Pete Olson and Lamar Smith of Texas; Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz of Utah; Bob Goodlatte of Virginia and Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.

Check back often for video and other links to come. [/quote][URL]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/08/check-foxnews-anti-tax-tea-party-coverage/[/URL]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

give them my work ethic, not my money.

this country is going down faster than last year.

where the fuck is the hope bullsit. dont get me wrong, bush ruined it, and spoke like a tard. but barak JUST SPEAKS BETTER. thats it. deny it, and deny reality. hope we all get what we deserve for not voting against those who put us here.

fuckin minorities and poor ppl.. glad ur jobs are VANISHING.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

I don't see anything wrong with people protesting a possible increase in taxes or stimulus spending as long as its done peacefully. The left shouldn't be name calling and stereotyping people like they have been. I do agree with the tea parties that protest the stimulus packages. I believe we're throwing money at a problem which Democrats have done for many years.

At the heart of this is that many right wingers see the government growing too large and philosophically against socialism. They see freedom slipping away and they are going to fight for it. I heard a reporter say on CNN that taxes and freedom don't go together which is totally wrong. The government taking your earnings and re-distributing how it sees turns our country into a socialist country resulting in your freedom being erased. Part of being free in this country is to enjoy the fruits of your labor and do what you want without being told how to live your life. The government and Obama think they know what's best for you and how you should live. That is not being free.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;736173]I must say that I am sick to death of the Liberal media portraying concerned Americans that are both from the left and right as "right wing cranks." Blaming Fox and millionaires for these tea parties. Is there something wrong with being rich?? That is communist talk.

There are a lot of millionaires in the US that did it honeslty. They aren't all attached to Goldman Sachs, AIG and the treasury department. I have to voice out on this because the "land of the free" is under marxist attack that has never been seen before in North America. Now I am neither Conserv or Lib as you all know I was very harsh on Bush but the Obama media is on the verge of starting a civil war between the parties. The idea that US citizens are "sore losers" becasue Obama won and now "eat our new taxes and like it" is absurd.

With gun sales at an all time high friction between these two parties could be the gas and fire mixture that the US hasn't seen since 1861. Obama vowed to cross the bi partisan line and work together yet I have never seen the parties as seperated as I do today. They are more divided now then when Bush was president.

Had to get this off my chest. But to tax a nation is to destroy it. The home of the brave must realize that their goverment can't wipe their ass for them and that the private sector must go out and fix the problems that was caused from the housing crisis that was started under Clinton. Innovation must drive the world economies not goverment regulators telling us what is best and telling us what to buy. That is China talk.

[URL]http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/15/begala.taxes/index.html[/URL][/quote]

I have ignored the politics section for a while, but I am glad I made it to see your post. :RockOn: Sightless and Garrick too

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;736244]I am also disappointed in how he calls patriots government payroll people (Fire, Police, Army, Teachers) What the rest aren't Patriots?? [/quote]

I was saying the same thing back when Bush introduced the Patriot Act. Everyone who was against that was suddenly cast out and called anti-American. That Patriot Act is the biggest load of bullshit this country has ever induced.

Listen, both parties have their faults and both of them are retarded beyond belief but what can you do? We are forced to live under either of these two regimes, there is middle ground of course but with less than ~15%? of the vote, they doesn't count for shit.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

teachers are not patriots. they are criminals nowadays. they teach to pass tests as opposed to allowing failure but enforcing learning, and frankly they demand asinine pay and benifits for people who only give 1/2 the effort. and i have dated three teachers and my sister works for NYC public schools(who vetoed a 5K raise cuz NYC asked them to work literally one more da a year)

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

I think the real problem is that the US is not really democratic with the tow party system and all...neither of the two parties seem to be representing anyone on this board. Right? I think you guys are really taking this whole thing too far. As soon as someone mentions tax increase in the US everyone jumps for their gun. Calm down a little give him his four years or at least the two and then show your opinions through the Congressional. elections. I have said on many occasions that I believe Bush and Obama to be two sides of the same coin but I still don't see anything conclusive to know that for a fact. So I say again give him some time and quit moaning.

p.s. you guys are hilarious with your socialist scare...its just so stereotypically American. Obama is no socialist...I am.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

at the slightest hint of socialism, its a stereotypical reaction because our country wasn't founded on socialism... it was based on liberty and freedom of choice. and our country is digressing from what our country was founded on, whether at a snail's pace or a rabbit's pace.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Garrick;736607]at the slightest hint of socialism, its a stereotypical reaction because our country wasn't founded on socialism... it was based on liberty and freedom of choice. and our country is digressing from what our country was founded on, whether at a snail's pace or a rabbit's pace.[/quote] Perhaps you still have a job, can afford your health care, and have some semblance of a retirement lined up.

But tens of millions of Americans who "played by the rules" just got fucked and now they're watching decades of their hard work disappear overnight.

Suddenly, the whole "liberty and freedom of choice" paradigm doesn't sound so hot when your only health care is an emergency room and you discover that you'll be working every day in a Wal Mart until you die, thanks to the "freedom of choice" exercised by a bunch of wealthy bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers.

And the stuff you call "socialism" - trying to reform health care, trying to increase Wall Street regulation, trying to develop some stimulus plans - sure looks a lot better to a lot of people right now.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Miroslav;736873]Perhaps you still have a job, can afford your health care, and have some semblance of a retirement lined up.

But tens of millions of Americans who "played by the rules" just got fucked and now they're watching decades of their hard work disappear overnight.

Suddenly, the whole "liberty and freedom of choice" paradigm doesn't sound so hot when your only health care is an emergency room and you discover that you'll be working every day in a Wal Mart until you die, thanks to the "freedom of choice" exercised by a bunch of wealthy bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers. [/quote]

hold on, you say freedom of choice of bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers. what about putting some of the responsibilities on the government. seems when they get involved, things fuck up. they are to blame just as much as the others as well as those who take out loans they know they cant afford. also, i dont mind helping those who do things right and get the bad end of the stick, but i dont want any of my money going to those who take advantage of the system and depend on government to always save them. I do not work my ass off to take care of them. I do want freedom of choice for me and my family. I do not need some politician telling me what is right and wrong for my family.

Maybe i would feel better about our future if we didnt have idiots like barney frank, reid, pelosi and obama running the show. They dont have any clue nor do most politicians of how it is being a regular American. And when i say politicians, i mean democrats and republicans. All of them. most of them dont know how to do the right thing like paying their own taxes. they bare as much responsibity as the others do for our economic downfall. they need to stop pointing the finger at everyone one else and step up to accept blame. Maybe if there were term limits for Congress, they would work for the people and not re-election.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=speciale;736878]hold on, you say freedom of choice of bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers. what about putting some of the responsibilities on the government. seems when they get involved, things fuck up. they are to blame just as much as the others as well as those who take out loans they know they cant afford. also, i dont mind helping those who do things right and get the bad end of the stick, but i dont want any of my money going to those who take advantage of the system and depend on government to always save them. I do not work my ass off to take care of them. I do want freedom of choice for me and my family. I do not need some politician telling me what is right and wrong for my family.

Maybe i would feel better about our future if we didnt have idiots like barney frank, reid, pelosi and obama running the show. They dont have any clue nor do most politicians of how it is being a regular American. And when i say politicians, i mean democrats and republicans. All of them. most of them dont know how to do the right thing like paying their own taxes. they bare as much responsibity as the others do for our economic downfall. they need to stop pointing the finger at everyone one else and step up to accept blame. Maybe if there were term limits for Congress, they would work for the people and not re-election.[/quote] Ok. Then I guess we can just have bare-knuckled capitalism with no rules or safeguards and see how that works out. :) Maybe Rush Limbaugh would do a better job.

Also, just so you know...the tens of millions of Americans who just lost their jobs and retirement savings probably were probably (for the most part) hard-working people and weren't depending on the government to "always save them".

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Miroslav;736880]Ok. Then I guess we can just have bare-knuckled capitalism and see how that goes. :) Maybe Rush Limbaugh would do a better job.[/quote]

bare knuckled capitalism? you really want big government. it is sad you have confidence that our government is capable of taking care of you. I choose in taking care of myself. I do believe in some form of regulation especially on the economy, but not in the form the current adminitstration is asking for. dont take away what people work for.

as for Rush, it is freedom of speech. if someone doesn't like him, dont listen to him. I dont like how some news channels report their news so I choose not to watch them. Better than watching them and then bitching about it everyday. he is a talk show host, not a leader. he is in it for 38 million dollars a year. if he really was a believer in what he says, he would do it for free.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[QUOTE=speciale;736885] he is a talk show host, not a leader. he is in it for 38 million dollars a year. if he really was a believer in what he says, he would do it for free.[/QUOTE]

thank you, precisely! (more so regarding other threads about limb)

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Miroslav;736880] Also, just so you know...the tens of millions of Americans who just lost their jobs and retirement savings probably were probably (for the most part) hard-working people and weren't depending on the government to "always save them".[/quote]

as for these people who I have a some friends who fall in this category, government is part of the reason they are in their situation. So why depend on them to come to the rescue?

I went through this during the years the IT industry crashed and was out of work for 6 months. My debt went through the roof. 20k in credits cards trying to survive. I survived. It took me time, but I finally paid off the debt and did not get 1 penny from the government. I was denied unemployment because of a form that was filled out improperly by an employer. I did not sit around waiting for someone to take care of me. I know first hand what it is like to be out of work and down in the shitter.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Miroslav;736873]Perhaps you still have a job, can afford your health care, and have some semblance of a retirement lined up.

But tens of millions of Americans who "played by the rules" just got fucked and now they're watching decades of their hard work disappear overnight.

Suddenly, the whole "liberty and freedom of choice" paradigm doesn't sound so hot when your only health care is an emergency room and you discover that you'll be working every day in a Wal Mart until you die, thanks to the "freedom of choice" exercised by a bunch of wealthy bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers.

And the stuff you call "socialism" - trying to reform health care, trying to increase Wall Street regulation, trying to develop some stimulus plans - sure looks a lot better to a lot of people right now.[/quote]

Well said.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=speciale;736885]bare knuckled capitalism? you really want big government. it is sad you have confidence that our government is capable of taking care of you. I choose in taking care of myself. I do believe in some form of regulation especially on the economy, but not in the form the current adminitstration is asking for. dont take away what people work for. [/quote] :)

Yeah, thanks for setting me straight. I want the FREEDOM to be exploited by everyone and everything! If I can't find a job soon and my savings run out, then I'm cool with eating tree bark for a while and living in a trash bin - it must be because I'm lazy and don't know the value of hard work, just like all those other millions of Americans who just lost everything. And I want health care costs to keep rising in the "market" at over 2x inflation and to be over 20% of GDP by 2017. And I can just rely on "the market" to provide for my retirement - gee, that worked out swell!

And how can you be for regulation of the economy? That's the government telling you what you can and can't do. What are you, some sort of a Socialist type? Man up and knuckle down for some "everyone for himself" free market action! We don't need "rules" because we don't need to be taken care of. This is AMERICA. 8)

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Miroslav;736910]:)

Yeah, thanks for setting me straight. I want the FREEDOM to be exploited by everyone and everything! If I can't find a job soon and my savings run out, then I'm cool with eating tree bark for a while and living in a trash bin - it must be because I'm lazy, just like all those other millions of Americans who just lost everything. And I want health care costs to keep rising in the "market" at over 2x inflation and to be over 20% of GDP by 2017. And I can just rely on "the market" to provide for my retirement - gee, that worked out swell!

And how can you be for regulation of the economy? That's the government telling you what you can and can't do. What are you, some sort of a Socialist type? Man up and knuckle down for some "everyone for himself" free market action! We don't need "rules" because we don't need to be taken care of. This is AMERICA. 8)[/quote]

you sound disgruntled. I never called you lazy either. if you lost your job and you were one who did things right, I already said, I have no problem in supporting you. You are one who helps this country run. And if you did lose your job, I have been there, I know what it is like. I would do anything I possibly could to help you get back on your feet. I am being honest here. It is shitty to be down without work.

And seriously, tree bark? Is that even nutritional? :lol: sorry, i lol'ed when I read that.

As for regulation, Do you want another fanny and freddie fiasco? If a company chooses to invest poorly, dont bail them out. let them fail. Better yet, dont allow that to happen again.

Healthcare needs to be reformed, but not universal health care. What is interesting is what the doctors have to pay. its ridiculous. Also, where has universal health care been successful? there are other alternatives.

Next the government will tell us we can no longer listen to Digweed. From now on, we can only listen to Tiesto. :twisted:

:lol:

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=Miroslav;736910]:) then I'm cool with eating tree bark for a while . 8)[/quote]

cool, [url]http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/edible-pine-bark/[/url]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

From what I can tell, a lot of the conservatives that are at these tea-parties are folks that held their noses through eight years of Bush and are damned sick of elected officials spending like crazy. Because Bush is no longer president, they have now been given the green light to go protest the bullshit of the past eight years. It wasn't patriotic to protest when Bush was president, i.e. "you are either with us or you are against us." These folks are mostly like lemmings. Fox & Limbaugh tell them to jump and they ask "how high?, at what time?, for how long?, oh, are any stem cells involved? and will Sarah Palin be there? please please I hope so!!" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=CactusBeats;736947]From what I can tell, a lot of the conservatives that are at these tea-parties are folks that held their noses through eight years of Bush and are damned sick of elected officials spending like crazy. Because Bush is no longer president, they have now been given the green light to go protest the bullshit of the past eight years. It wasn't patriotic to protest when Bush was president, i.e. "you are either with us or you are against us." These folks are mostly like lemmings. Fox & Limbaugh tell them to jump and they ask "how high?, at what time?, for how long?, oh, are any stem cells involved? and will Sarah Palin be there? please please I hope so!!" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:[/quote]

Anyone who follows what people on tv tell them to do are lost IMO. It is all entertainment. But it goes both ways. there are many people who watch msnbc and cnn and are not given any true facts just the liberal views of those channels. Cable news is not news and purely entertainment. reporters should report not give us their views and beliefs.

The fact still remains, I have never seen our country so divided. I guess that is all you can expect from a 2 party system.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=speciale;736918]you sound disgruntled. I never called you lazy either. if you lost your job and you were one who did things right, I already said, I have no problem in supporting you.[/quote] Thanks, I don't need support just yet. I'll live. And hopefully some day there will be real jobs again to be had.

My general point was that there is a continuum between all-out socialism and all-out capitalism. While all-out socialism is arguably a bad idea, so is all-out capitalism. All-out capitalism is an ugly world, and we've already foresaken it a long time ago. We have the FDIC, anti-monopoly regulations, bank capitalization requirements, child labor laws...those are generally good things to have, and they are all in a way "socialist". It would be nice to have a rational discussion about where we as a society should be on that continuum [I]somewhere in between the two extremes[/I]. Instead, we always get scared away from doing [I]anything[/I] because of "socialism". It's like the proverbial boogey man hiding in the closet.

So taking health care as an example: I guess that's why we spend more per capita on health care than any other nation on earth and yet rank in the high 20s / low 30s among industrialized nations in terms of life expectancy (many of which have those evil "socialist" elements of health care). The graph below is from the early 2000s, but the trend has not changes (and the spending trend is growing like hell).

Not sure what "alternatives" you're talking about there, but I have seen nothing from the right-wingers, except to torpedo any discussion of addressing this as (of course) "socialist." Bush and the right-wingers had the better part of eight years to address things like this and [I]didn't do shit[/I]. And while "the markets" are generally good, they haven't helped in this case.

And I suspect this trend will just continue to grow indefinitely because the right-wing spectre of "socialism" is powerful in this country and will always scare people back into complacency with the way things are.

[IMG]http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/health/spend/cost_longlife75.gif[/IMG]

[URL]http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php[/URL]

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy[/URL]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

^^Man what happened to you? I agree with like everything you say these days lol

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

talking about Health care reform and turing into a fascist country are two completely different things. Socialism leads to communisn so to say that there is a continuum between all out capitalism and all out socialism is a scary statement. Quotes like that during the war could have put you in jail.

The two party system is really nothing more than a two headed monster. The agenda is set for a totalitarian form of government (You can call it totalitarian,Corporatism, Corporatocracy...etc). Now in a totalitarian government freedom and human rights are last on the agenda. Big business and numbers rule.

Also it kind of bothers me that you think that Obama is smarter then George Washington was. If Washington thought that "you know lets make it half socialist and half capitalist" HE WOULD HAVE DONE THAT. You can't get half pregnant. It is either one or the other.

PS- By "boogie man" when it comes socialism would you be reffering to the millions of lives lost during world war 2 fighting socialism?

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;737201]talking about Health care reform and turing into a fascist country are two completely different things. Socialism leads to communisn so to say that there is a continuum between all out capitalism and all out socialism is a scary statement. Quotes like that during the war could have put you in jail.[/quote] It's not scary; it's rational and intelligent. The extremes are what is scary. And whether or not people would be put in jail for saying it is not a good basis for discrediting something.

You seem shocked by this notion, but the fact is that [B][I]we have never lived in all-out capitalism, not even back in George Washington's days[/I][/B]. Economic and political systems are always a continuum; "all-out capitalism" only exists in abstract theory. If we lived in all-out capitalism, we probably wouldn't have the SEC, anti-trust regulation, the FDIC, child labor laws, or unions.

And just because George Washington said or did something doesn't make it holy scripture until the end of time. We've had 27 amendments to the Constitution! That doesn't mean we foresake our Constitutional principles, but things change. Back when George Washington was alive, we didn't even [I]have[/I] the issue of health care.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;737201]to say that there is a continuum between all out capitalism and all out socialism is a scary statement. Quotes like that during the war could have put you in jail. [/quote]

What? Speaking of scary statements, a statement like this is the sort of thing that will undercut the credibility of every other thing you ever say anywhere, at any time, forever.

[B][I]Of course[/I][/B] there's a continuum between capitalism and socialism. [I][B]Of course[/B][/I] there is. That's [I][B]obvious[/B][/I]. Every country on the planet uses its own blend of these systems and falls somewhere on that spectrum, with some services provided by the government, and others provided by the free market. This shouldn't even need to be discussed.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

It is the truth. Communists were put in jail. Stop living in your little bubble guys

What is surprising to me is that you Liberals are so easy to right off capitalism and run to a more socialist movement. That discredits you and makes you sound IMO Anti-American.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;737299]It is the truth. Communists were put in jail. Stop living in your little bubble guys

What is surprising to me is that you Liberals are so easy to right off capitalism and run to a more socialist movement. That discredits you and makes you sound IMO Anti-American.[/quote] We all know that "Communists" were put in jail in the past. It was a totally retarded policy administered by self-righteous idiots. We shouldn't do it again.

And who who gave you the authority to define what is "American" and what is not? :lol: You're sounding like a backwoods one-tooth redneck from West Virginia.

I see that the whole point about how [I]none of us[/I] in the US have ever lived in anything even close to a "pure" capitalist society went completely over your head. sigh...oh well.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

oh I get it. anybody who is pro free market pro american values is an uneducated toothless hick. ah now I see your bi partisan view. you see being prejudice like that for sure won't fix the problem..

ps I didn't mean "jail" as a threat at all I was just pointing out what happened in the past..

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

regardless of what all of the arguments here are, I have never seen our country so divided.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

I am neither Conserv or Lib as you all know I was very harsh on Bush but the Obama media is on the verge of starting a civil war between the parties.

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[quote=runningman;737321]oh I get it. anybody who is pro free market pro american values is an uneducated toothless hick. ah now I see your bi partisan view. you see being prejudice like that for sure won't fix the problem..

ps I didn't mean "jail" as a threat at all I was just pointing out what happened in the past..[/quote] It's amusing that you're a Canuck who is suddenly knows way more about "American values" than those of us who actually [I]are[/I] Americans and live in the USA. :lol: Do you realize that you live in a way more "Socialistic" country than I do? Your health care is already nationalized, you Commie! :p

And by the way, the toothless hicks are the ones who are so short sighted and arrogant that they think only their version of "American values" are the REAL American values and the rest of us are somehow "un-American". :roll:

Stop seeing everything in black and white; it's an inaccurate lens with which to view the world. You should know by now that most everything in life consists of shades of gray. Life is a spectrum of values, and there are many degrees of opinion to be had on almost everything.

It's not that you're either "pro free market" or "pro communism". You can be for the free market as an economic basis, but also be in favor of [I]some degree[/I] of regulation and intervention (again, anti-trust laws, FDIC, the SEC, etc.) and favor [I]certain[/I] social programs as part of the societal infrastructure (unemployment insurance, roads & highways, military, tuition aid, etc.). That [I]does not[/I] in and of itself make you a Communist, for heaven's sake.

[quote=speciale;737330]regardless of what all of the arguments here are, I have never seen our country so divided.[/quote] Did you miss the last eight years? ;)

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

Actually, the radical liberals only were divided the last 8 years. It is far worse today. A lot worse.

its the weekend. Eff the news and politics for 2 days and enjoy the beautiful weather. :p Seriously. life is too short :JamesBro: game back on monday ;)